CLOSE THE BORDERS

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" width="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">GET RID OF THE ILLEGAL ALIENS.
SHOOT THOSE THAT COME THROUGH THE FENCE
JAIL THOSE THAT USE ILLEGAL LABOR.
JAIL THOSE THAT HELP ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS GET HERE
EVERY TIME AN ILLEGAL ALIEN IS CAUGHT SEND HIM BACK ON HIS FKING TUBE RAFT HOME.

WHY THE RANT.

MY BUDDY GOT HIT 4 DAYS AGO BY AN ILLEGAL ALIEN WHILE ON VACATION IN NEW YORK. HE WAS CROSSING A CROSSWALK AND THE MEXICAN RAN A RED LIGHT AND HIT HIM..BROKE BOTH LEGS..HE IS IN HOSPITAL...THE ILLEGAL WAS CUT LOOSE BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT HOLD HIM DUE TO THE FACT HE WAS NOT A CITIZEN..WTF...SHOULD HAVE SHOTPUT HIS ASS BACK TO MEXICO.
SICK OF THIS CRAP.
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gopherbob

EOG Dedicated
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

i, as well as most americans, agree with you. the problem is that the people that hire the illegals contribute heavily to both parties, thats why the illegals get to stay.
 
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

<table id="HB_Mail_Container" unselectable="on" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="100%" width="100%"><tbody><tr width="100%" unselectable="on" height="100%"><td id="HB_Focus_Element" unselectable="off" background="" height="250" valign="top" width="100%">GET RID OF THE ILLEGAL ALIENS.
SHOOT THOSE THAT COME THROUGH THE FENCE
JAIL THOSE THAT USE ILLEGAL LABOR.
JAIL THOSE THAT HELP ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS GET HERE
EVERY TIME AN ILLEGAL ALIEN IS CAUGHT SEND HIM BACK ON HIS FKING TUBE RAFT HOME.

WHY THE RANT.

MY BUDDY GOT HIT 4 DAYS AGO BY AN ILLEGAL ALIEN WHILE ON VACATION IN NEW YORK. HE WAS CROSSING A CROSSWALK AND THE MEXICAN RAN A RED LIGHT AND HIT HIM..BROKE BOTH LEGS..HE IS IN HOSPITAL...THE ILLEGAL WAS CUT LOOSE BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT HOLD HIM DUE TO THE FACT HE WAS NOT A CITIZEN..WTF...SHOULD HAVE SHOTPUT HIS ASS BACK TO MEXICO.
SICK OF THIS CRAP.
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Sorry to hear about your friend. But why would they "hold" the driver anyway? A traffic accident is normally not a criminal offense, so the driver would not have been "held" in any event. Few local police departments enforce federal immigration laws. Would your friend feel better if he were hit by an American citizen?
 
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

I'd feel better if I was hit by an American Citizen because at least that person could possibly be driving LEGALLY, whereas the illegal alien has no business not only driving, but LIVING IN THIS COUNTRY.

Illegal Aliens have it better than American Citizens. Commit a crime? Maybe get deported, maybe just get let go...
 
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

I've never heard of someone committing a crime and getting away with it because they are in this country illegally. Yes, they will most likely get deported, but AFTER they have served their sentence.
The one disadvantage that I see from getting hit by an illegal alien would involve car insurance, or the strong possibility of the lack thereof. . . .
 
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" width="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">are you kidding
have you not heard about the multiple time murder offender in Tenn that has been let loose because he is illegal.

happens all the time but just like stated..they do the work we don't want to do and contribute money.

but fred wants them out so...08
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Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

<table id="HB_Mail_Container" unselectable="on" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="100%" width="100%"><tbody><tr width="100%" unselectable="on" height="100%"><td id="HB_Focus_Element" unselectable="off" background="" height="250" valign="top" width="100%">are you kidding
have you not heard about the multiple time murder offender in Tenn that has been let loose because he is illegal.

happens all the time but just like stated..they do the work we don't want to do and contribute money.

but fred wants them out so...08
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Specifics, please; and a link to a news story. . . .
 
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" width="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">it was all over the news about 6-9 months ago..i dont remember exactly and have no links..
roscoe you think i give a rats ass what you say..believe or dont...so what.
i know others here remember us talking about it..i didnt even bring it up the first time someone else did.

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roscoe

EOG Veteran
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

if you commit a murder in the u.s. and the police can prove it, your going to jail no matter what country you are from.
 
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" width="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">not true.....
like your boy doc used to tell you...do your homework..

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Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" width="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">IT has been all over the internet but like i said was 6-9 months ago or longer..many DEMOCRATIC judges were the guilty ones letting them out,.
it is the libs doing it mostly.
anytime you want to pull your head out of the sand let me know
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roscoe

EOG Veteran
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

do you really believe that if you are from another country you are immune from u.s. laws?
 
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" width="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">if you are illegal...............
dude do you have a clue........
let me ask you this..how can you prosecute an illegal alien if he has no rights under our system which he does not by the way....and for that matter how can you defend them
do you even watch the news or just type whatever is in your head.
seriously

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dirty

EOG Master
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

<table id="HB_Mail_Container" unselectable="on" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="100%" width="100%"><tbody><tr width="100%" unselectable="on" height="100%"><td id="HB_Focus_Element" unselectable="off" background="" height="250" valign="top" width="100%">IT has been all over the internet but like i said was 6-9 months ago or longer..many DEMOCRATIC judges were the guilty ones letting them out,.
it is the libs doing it mostly.
anytime you want to pull your head out of the sand let me know
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I just googled for it and went thru 30 pages and no reference to it....


I have read every thread in this forum and I don't remember us talking about it. Illegals just don't go around doing anything they want....I know the ones in GA go to jail when the commit a crime...that is why our Jails are over crowded.
 
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

An internet search with the terms tennessee, murder, illegal alien, returned the following page amongst other.

American Daughter Media Center

I'm not sure of the accuracy of the reports on this page, as the organization most assuredly has an agenda. However, a quick review revealed that most of the stories deal with illegal aliens causing deaths via drunk driving. Not one of the illegal aliens was "let go" because he was in the country illegally. I would think that if such an incident were to happen, it would be easily locatable on the internet.
 
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roscoe

EOG Veteran
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

With the rising concern about the numbers and impacts of illegal aliens in the United States?as evidenced by the sweeping passage of Proposition 187 in California, the immigrant provisions in 1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act (PRWORA), and Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (IIRIRA)?criminal illegal aliens have become a subject of particular focus. These individuals have not only entered or resided in the United States without the knowledge or permission of the U.S. government, but, while here, they have also violated the laws of the nation, its states, or municipalities.
At state and local levels, the costs of arresting, prosecuting, sentencing, and supervising criminal illegal aliens has become a major issue. Six states have filed suits to force the federal government to reimburse them for criminal justice costs associated with illegal aliens. They have argued that it is the federal government's responsibility to keep illegal aliens out of this country and to expel illegal aliens who have gained entry, and that, therefore, the federal government should offset any fiscal impacts that these illegal aliens have on lower levels of government through direct reimbursement. None of these suits has been successful.
The federal government has taken some steps to reimburse states for some of the costs associated with criminal illegal aliens. Section 510 of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA) authorized the Attorney General to reimburse states for the criminal justice costs attributable to undocumented persons. No appropriations for illegal aliens were made until 1994, when the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act (Public Law 103-317 or the Crime Act of 1994) authorized $1.8 billion over six years to reimburse states for criminal justice costs associated with illegal aliens. The State Criminal Alien Assistance Program (SCAAP) was established to allocate and distribute these monies.
This research describes the characteristics of illegal aliens in the criminal justice system at federal, state, and local levels. A goal of this project is to be as nationally representative as possible, given the limits of existing data sets. The federal-level analysis is based on two data sets, from the Pretrial Services Act Information System (PSAIS) and the U.S. Sentencing Commission (USSC), which are representative of individuals involved in the federal criminal justice system. (The PSAIS contains information on defendants charged with federal offenses whom pretrial service officers interview, investigate, or supervise. The USSC Monitoring Data Base contains information on criminal defendants sentenced according to the Sentencing Reform Act of 1984.) The state-level analysis is based on data collected for the SCAAP on the seven states with the most illegal aliens, Arizona, California, Florida, Illinois, New Jersey, New York, and Texas (Warren 1997). All of these states except Illinois filed suits to force the federal government to reimburse them for criminal justice costs associated with illegal aliens. The local-level analysis is limited to one site, Cook County, Illinois, and is based on data collected from the INS District Office and the Cook County Department of Corrections.
Key findings


1. How many illegal aliens are there in prison and elsewhere in the criminal justice system?

  • USSC
    • In 1995, there were 4,081 illegal aliens sentenced in federal district courts, 11 percent of the total sentenced.
    PSAIS
    • As in the USSC data, in 1995, illegal aliens represented a high share (14.4 percent) of individuals entering the Pretrial Services Act Information System (PSAIS).
    SCAAP
    • The INS identified 14,262 illegal aliens among state prisoners in 1995 from California, Texas, New York, Florida, Illinois, Arizona, and New Jersey. INS was unable to determine the legal status of 48 percent of foreign-born prisoners in these states.
    • California contained a disproportionately large share of illegal alien state prisoners, 71 percent of illegal aliens identified by the INS, which appears to reflect its large share of the resident illegal alien population and the relatively large share of the state's submissions for which the INS was able to determine immigrant/legal status.
    Cook County
    • There were 228 bookings of individuals identified as illegal aliens by the Cook County Department of Corrections (CCDC) between 1994 and 1996.
2. Between 1991 and 1995, how and why has the number of illegal aliens entering the criminal justice system changed?
  • USSC
    • The number of illegal aliens sentenced in federal courts increased by 167 percent , compared with 13 percent for citizens. The number of legal aliens declined by 18 percent over this period.
    • The share of defendants in federal courts who were illegal aliens rose from 4 percent to 11 percent while the share who were legal aliens declined from 12 percent to 9 percent.
    • The number of illegal aliens sentenced increased for 89 of the 94 federal district courts, for all major offense categories, and for all major country of citizenship groups.
    • The increase in the number of illegal aliens appears to be partially attributable to improved border enforcement on the Southwest border?where increases were largest; growth in the resident illegal alien population; and improved identification of illegal aliens in the USSC data and by law enforcement officials.
    • The sharp increase in the number of illegal aliens sentenced is responsible for more than half of the overall increase in the number of defendants sentenced in federal courts and 44 percent in the growth in costs of federal post-sentencing incarceration and supervision.
    PSAIS
    • The number of illegal aliens entering the PSAIS increased by 45 percent, more than the increase for the resident undocumented alien population, 30 percent. Most of the increase occurred between 1994 and 1995.
    • Almost the entire increase in the number of illegal aliens entering the PSAIS can be explained by an increase in the number of illegal aliens arrested for immigration offenses between 1994 and 1995; most of the new apprehended immigration offenders in 1995 were from California.

3. What types of offenses have illegal aliens been convicted of? How do the types of offenses compare with the general population?

  • USSC
    • The major offenses for which illegal aliens were convicted in federal court in 1995 were unlawfully entering the United States (47 percent of the total), drug trafficking (27 percent), other immigration offenses (11 percent) and fraud (5 percent).
    • Illegal aliens sentenced in federal courts were more likely than legal aliens or U.S. citizens to have at least one prior conviction resulting in a sentence of at least 60 days.
    • For U.S. citizens and legal aliens, drug trafficking and fraud were the most common major federal offense conviction.
    PSAIS
    • In 1995, illegal aliens were more likely to be charged with an immigration offense (60 percent) or drug trafficking (22 percent) than any other offense. Legal aliens and citizens were most likely to be charged with drug trafficking offenses (50 percent and 35 percent respectively).
    SCAAP
    • The most common offenses for which illegal aliens were convicted were drug offenses in all states except Florida. For states distinguishing among types of drug offenses, drug trafficking was more common than drug possession, except in Texas.
    • In Florida, the most common offense among illegal aliens in state prisons was murder. Both illegal and legal aliens in Florida were far more likely than aliens in other states to have been convicted of violent offenses against a person.
    • In Florida, the high share of murders, and other violent crimes against individuals, among illegal aliens cannot be attributed to any one country of origin group. For each major country of origin groups murder and other violent crimes were substantially more common in Florida than they were in the other major immigrant states. The large share of violent offenders in Florida may be related to Florida's policies on deporting criminal aliens.
    Cook County
    • About 14 percent of CCDC illegal aliens have at least one prior conviction.
    • Like the general CCDC population, the most common charges for illegal aliens are drug offenses. Among illegal aliens, Mexicans are less likely than non-Mexicans to have been charged with drug offenses.

4. What types of illegal aliens are in the criminal justice system? What are their characteristics?

  • USSC
    • In 1995, California accounted for more illegal aliens sentenced in federal courts than any other state, 31 percent of the total. Texas had the next highest number of illegal aliens, 18 percent; together these two states accounted for about half of the illegal aliens sentenced. Other states with large number of illegal aliens sentenced were New York, Arizona, Florida, Oregon, and Washington.
    • Mexicans made up the largest share of illegal aliens sentenced in federal court. The second largest group was Colombians, followed by Dominicans, Jamaicans, and Nigerians. Mexicans dominated in most of the major immigration states, but Colombians were the largest group in New York, Florida, and New Jersey.
    • Major offenses among illegal aliens differed significantly by country of citizenship. In 1995, Mexicans were the only group for which unlawful entry was the dominant offense. Colombians were the only group for which drug trafficking was the dominant offense and for which a substantial share were convicted of money laundering. Nigerians were the only group for which fraud constituted a major offense.
    SCAAP
    • Mexico was the dominant country of origin among illegal alien state prisoners in Arizona, California, Texas, and Illinois. In New York, Florida, and New Jersey, illegal immigrants from the Caribbean and from Central and South America constituted the largest shares of illegal aliens in state prisons, although in these states no single country or country group dominated.
    • The vast majority of illegal alien state prisoners entered the United States illegally, rather than entering the country legally and then remaining after their authorized period of stay had expired. Texas and California had the largest share of illegal aliens who entered without inspection?94?95 percent?while shares for Illinois and New Jersey were the lowest?85?86 percent.
    • Types of offense committed differed by country of origin. Colombians and Dominicans were especially likely to have been imprisoned for drug-related offenses. Among Haitians and Nicaraguans, drug offenses were relatively uncommon.
    Cook County
    • Eighty-five percent of illegal aliens detained by the CCDC were citizens of Mexico. The second most common country of citizenship was Colombia, accounting for 4 percent.
    • Among Mexican illegal aliens, most are from the interior Mexican states, such as Guerrero, the largest contributor with 12 percent of the total. Few are from states bordering the United States.
    • Eighty-nine percent of illegal aliens in the CCDC entered the United States entered without inspection. Mexicans were substantially more likely to have entered without inspection than illegal aliens from other countries.
    • Nearly half of illegal aliens in the CCDC (46 percent) entered the United States at San Ysidio, California near San Diego. Other major points of entry were El Paso, Texas (13 percent), Nogales, Arizona (11 percent), and Laredo, Texas (9 percent).
    • An overwhelming majority of illegal aliens in the CCDC appear to be U.S. residents. Ninety percent had been in the United States for at least a year; none been in this country for less than a month. Furthermore, 14 percent have one or more U.S. citizen children.
    • About 8 percent of illegal aliens in the CCDC have already been deported at least once.

5. What are the socioeconomic and demographic characteristics of illegal aliens in prison or in other parts of the criminal justice system? How do they compare with others in the criminal justice system?

  • USSC
    • Sentenced illegal aliens, compared with legal aliens and U.S. citizens, were poorer, had lower educational attainment, were younger, were more likely to be Hispanic, were more likely to be male, and were less likely to have dependents.
    PSAIS
    • Illegal aliens entering the PSAIS were less educated, younger, and more likely to be white and Hispanic than legal aliens and citizens. The illegal aliens were more likely to be married than citizens but less likely than legal aliens.
    SCAAP
    • In most states, illegal aliens in state prisons were younger, on average, than legal aliens.
    Cook County
    • Illegal aliens are younger on average than the general CCDC population; 44 percent are under age 25, compared with 32 percent overall.
    • A majority of illegal aliens in the CCDC are involved in construction trades, most often as laborers.
Discussion

Accuracy in identifying illegal aliens
One potential problem with this analysis is that it is not clear that all aliens are identified as such, particularly in the PSAIS, USSC, and SCAAP data. If law enforcement officials misidentify some aliens as natives, then the process of ascertaining exact immigrant/legal status is never begun, so illegal aliens are not identified. Misidentification as natives would probably be limited to aliens who are not arrested for immigration offenses and who, among those charged with federal offenses, at least, could produce a social security number.
According to the federal officials we spoke with, there are no formally established policies to ensure that all aliens, particularly illegal aliens, are identified as such in the USSC and PSAIS. The procedures they described seem adequate, especially USSC procedures such as investigating all individuals who cannot produce a social security number and asking detailed questions about defendants family members, especially the location of their parents. Establishing standard guidelines for deciding whether an individual s immigration status should be determined would probably reduce the likelihood that aliens are misidentified as natives, especially in areas where few aliens are apprehended.
Federal officials told us that, once an individual was identified as possibly being an alien, their status was determined by either talking to INS officials or accessing INS records. Given the INS s own difficulties in determining the immigrant/legal status of the prisoners whose names were submitted by states for reimbursement under SCAAP, which lead to a match rate of only 52 percent in 1995 for the seven states we examined, it is surprising that the missing data rates for the PSAIS and USSC data were so low. We were unable to determine the exact procedures used for PSAIS and USSC status determination, but it seems likely that defendants who could not be matched to INS records were assumed to be illegal aliens, although our research suggests that some individuals who cannot be matched to INS records are not illegal aliens. One explanation for the high level of immigrant/legal status determination in the USSC and PSAIS data is that a large share of the individuals identified as illegal aliens in the data bases were charged or convicted of unlawfully entering the United States, which, as an offense that only applies to illegal aliens, contains within it the immigrant/legal status identification of the defendant. At the state level, there are no offenses that can be used to automatically assign immigrant/legal status. One method of further investigating the accuracy of immigrant/legal status determination would be to match defendants in the USSC and PSAIS data to INS records in a process similar to that used for SCAAP. (The match rate for state SCAAP submissions rose to 70 percent by 1995, suggesting matching procedures have improved.)
Improving the efficiency of identifying illegal aliens
One issue that we were not able to resolve is whether there is duplication of effort involved in identifying the immigrant/legal status of federal defendants. It is possible that for some defendants, immigrant/legal status is determined three times, once in the pretrial period, another time before sentencing, and a final time after conviction, by INS officials screening for potentially deportable criminal aliens. Putting in place a system through which the information from each status determination, including its source, is passed along through the different stages of the criminal justice system could potentially cut down on the time it takes to process foreign-born prisoners and would allow refinement of the procedures used to identify aliens, particularly illegal aliens.
One problem we identified was the difficulty in consistently recording names that follow Spanish surname conventions, which often include two-part last names. Matching individuals within and across data sets would be considerably easier and more efficient if a single convention for recording these last names was developed and disseminated to all governmental law enforcement agencies who have responsibility for dealing with large numbers of foreign-born individuals. Adoption of such a convention would be advantageous to all levels of government because it would facilitate the identification of potentially deportable criminal aliens.
Recent General Accounting Office reports have identified difficulties the INS has in tracking potentially deportable criminal aliens(U.S. General Accounting Office, 1997a, 1998). Recent improvements in making status determinations for SCAAP submissions suggests the INS's performance is improving. Having integrated, up-to-date INS data systems would reduce the workload of pretrial services officers and would improve the information magistrates and judges have when making the decision whether to detain or release federal defendants.
Explaining why the number of illegal aliens in the federal criminal justice system has increased
While this analysis of federal data sets has shown that the number of illegal aliens in the federal criminal justice has increased sharply, our ability to explain this increase was limited. It appears to be due in part to increased border enforcement, better identification of illegal aliens, and the growth of resident illegal alien population, although other factors may play a role. Data such as the PSAIS and USSC are only of limited use in determining the causes for changes in criminal activity. We were able to show that, following the introduction of Operations Hold the Line and Gatekeeper, the number of illegal alien defendants charged with and convicted of unlawful border crossing increased, although convictions for this offense also rose in virtually all districts, not just the two that were home to the initiatives. Lacking any details in the data sets about the law enforcement initiatives that were associated with each arrest, conclusions about the link between enforcement and arrests are suggestive, but not conclusive. However, ability to track changes in levels of criminal activity among illegal aliens would be improved if more data about aliens were collected.
With the PSAIS and USSC data, it is not possible to calculate prosecution or conviction rates for the entire illegal alien population. While these data sets provide estimates of the number of illegal aliens charged with and convicted of federal offenses, the denominator for the rate cannot be calculated. The INS produces estimates of the resident illegal alien population of the United States, but it is clear from the description of offenses, specifically the large share of illegal aliens convicted of unlawful entry in border states, that a tremendous share of the illegal aliens appearing in the PSAIS and USSC are not resident illegal aliens; they are recent border crossers. An unknown share of illegal aliens convicted of other offenses are also recent arrivals. In order to calculate prosecution and conviction rates for resident illegal aliens, it would be necessary to add information for illegal aliens' length of stay in the United States to the PSAIS and USSC data sets. Attributing all offenses committed by illegal aliens to the resident illegal alien population would result in a gross overestimate of the criminal propensity of this population.
The PSAIS and USSC data also cannot be used to assess the level of criminal involvement of immigrants who entered the country legally. Using these data would underestimate criminal involvement among immigrants admitted legally because the data sets do not distinguish between naturalized citizens and U.S. natives.
The number of legal aliens sentenced in federal court declined dramatically between 1994 and 1995. This decline took place in virtually all districts, not just in border areas. More research should be done to determine the reasons for this decline, whether it was also observed at state and local areas, and whether it continued through the rest of the 1990s. Since legal aliens' crime rates were already declining when the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 was passed, it may be difficult to assess whether this law will have an effect on legal aliens' criminal activity.
Implications for developing strategies for reducing crimes committed by illegal aliens
The analysis of Cook County and of the SCAAP data from California, New York, Texas, Florida, Illinois, New Jersey, and Arizona shows that the vast majority of illegal alien offenders in these areas were individuals who entered without the knowledge or permission of the U.S. government ("EWIs" for entered without inspection) rather than individuals who were admitted legally but remained in the United States after their authorized period of stay had ended ("overstays"). If a primary goal of detecting and removing illegal aliens is to reduce criminal activity, then resources are better expended targeting EWIs rather than overstays.
Our Cook County analysis suggests that a large proportion of illegal aliens apprehended at the local level are long-term settlers. Further research needs to be done in order to assess whether this finding also holds true in other areas and in the federal courts. Assessing the relative impact of long-term and short-term illegal aliens on overall level of crime in the United States would be useful in two ways. First, it would help policy makers and law enforcement officials assess the effects of increased border enforcement activities on illegal aliens' participation in crimes other than unlawful entry. Second, when deciding whether to seek out and deport long-term illegal residents, policy makers should have access to accurate assessments of their criminal activity; the costs of the resident illegal aliens will be overestimated if all crimes committed by illegal aliens, regardless of their length of residence, are ascribed to the resident illegal alien population.
The increase in prosecutions and convictions of illegal aliens appears to have significantly affected both the number and the estimated costs of incarcerating and supervising of defendants convicted in federal courts. Since a substantial share of the increase in illegal aliens convicted appears to be due to increased border enforcement, this increased burden on the federal criminal justice system can be seen as a secondary cost of such border enforcement.
If border interdiction efforts successfully reduce attempted illegal entry, this negative impact on the federal criminal justice system may be short-term. Furthermore, by reducing the number of EWIs, whom our analysis suggests are responsible for more criminal offenses than overstays, successful border control efforts would probably have a particularly large impact on reducing the amount of criminal activity among illegal aliens.
Reducing the number of illegal aliens entering the United States may affect crime rates far beyond the U.S.-Mexican border. The Cook County analysis shows that 46 percent of illegal aliens arrested had entered at San Ysidio, near San Diego and part of Operation Gatekeeper, and 13 percent had entered at El Paso, home of Operation Hold the Line. If these and similar operations actually reduce illegal entry, rather than simply shifting it to other regions, Cook County, and probably other areas, will eventually see a reduction in the number of illegal aliens apprehended for criminal activity.
A recent General Accounting Office (1997) report suggests that the effects of INS's southwest border strategy are inconclusive. Analysis based on INS I-213 forms, similar to our analysis for Cook County, may be enlightening because these forms include information on legal status and date of entry for foreign-born arrestees. Rather than relying on overall crime trends, as has been done in the past, analysts would be able to track whether, in border areas, arrests of recently arrived illegal aliens have declined since these border efforts have been introduced. A complete assessment would also include adjacent areas, which have become more popular entry points for illegal aliens, and selected other non-border sites, such as Cook County, where illegal aliens who entered at or near San Diego and El Paso dominate the apprehended illegal aliens.
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ZZ CREAM

EOG Master
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

i, as well as most americans, agree with you. the problem is that the people that hire the illegals contribute heavily to both parties, thats why the illegals get to stay.
As usual Gopher, you have hit the proverbial nail on the head. If the US wanted to end the illegal immigration problem, they could do it tomorrow. Just make it a crime to hire illegals and throw the people responsible, all the way up the ladder, in jail. End of problem. Another gay marriage canard by the powers that be (to fire up the sheep, surely) to make people forget our illegal and senseless war overseas. A war to make Bush's pals trillions.
 

ZZ CREAM

EOG Master
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

if you commit a murder in the u.s. and the police can prove it, your going to jail no matter what country you are from.
Correct, unless your address is 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue!:dancefool :dancefool :dancefool :dancefool
 
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

It's been eight minutes, and still no Chappequidick (spelling?) reference.:cocktail:cocktail:cocktail
 

The Devil

EOG Master
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

As usual Gopher, you have hit the proverbial nail on the head. If the US wanted to end the illegal immigration problem, they could do it tomorrow. Just make it a crime to hire illegals and throw the people responsible, all the way up the ladder, in jail. End of problem. Another gay marriage canard by the powers that be (to fire up the sheep, surely) to make people forget our illegal and senseless war overseas. A war to make Bush's pals trillions.

YOU SHOULD TRY SINGING A DIFFERNT TUNE....EVERY SONG YOU SING HAS THE SAME MELODY.........BUSH'S WAR THIS, BUSH'S WAR THAT....TRY REMEMBERING IT WAS CLINTON AND THE BLEEDING HEART LIBS THAT BROUGHT YOU HOME IN A PLANE......
 

ZZ CREAM

EOG Master
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

YOU SHOULD TRY SINGING A DIFFERNT TUNE....EVERY SONG YOU SING HAS THE SAME MELODY.........BUSH'S WAR THIS, BUSH'S WAR THAT....TRY REMEMBERING IT WAS CLINTON AND THE BLEEDING HEART LIBS THAT BROUGHT YOU HOME IN A PLANE......
Those 'oldies, but goodies',you should enjoy them and embrace them.:dancefool :dancefool :dancefool :dancefool Don't wait for the sheepherder to call you home.:dancefool :dancefool :dancefool :dancefool
 
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

As usual Gopher, you have hit the proverbial nail on the head. If the US wanted to end the illegal immigration problem, they could do it tomorrow. Just make it a crime to hire illegals and throw the people responsible, all the way up the ladder, in jail. End of problem. Another gay marriage canard by the powers that be (to fire up the sheep, surely) to make people forget our illegal and senseless war overseas. A war to make Bush's pals trillions.

End of problem and end of our good economy. You think it is a good idea to "free up" 15 million mostly no-skill jobs and then make sure they get filled with American labor? Yeah real smart, that will move our economy forward. That is the whole problem with this debate. If people really want such a situation then fine, make such an argument. But it isn't just do this and everything is rosy. Make some real choices and admit there are some large trade-offs to the close the borders and deport all illegals argument.

If we have this realistic debate then I would feel like we as a nation can move forward on this. I have little hope of this though, both sides are reckless in their biased arguments.
 
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

End of problem and end of our good economy. You think it is a good idea to "free up" 15 million mostly no-skill jobs and then make sure they get filled with American labor? Yeah real smart, that will move our economy forward. That is the whole problem with this debate. If people really want such a situation then fine, make such an argument. But it isn't just do this and everything is rosy. Make some real choices and admit there are some large trade-offs to the close the borders and deport all illegals argument.

If we have this realistic debate then I would feel like we as a nation can move forward on this. I have little hope of this though, both sides are reckless in their biased arguments.

You keep saying these are jobs Americans won't do but that's where you are wrong.

These are jobs Americans won't do for 6 bucks an hour.

Put Americans in those jobs and pay them a decent wage and then let's see where the economy goes.

I'll agree though, that there IS SOME TRADEOFF. The bottom line however is that it will greatly benefit our country to close the border and deport illegal aliens.

I'm all for compromise. Close the border FIRST THOUGH, and STOP THE FLOW of illegal aliens.

THEN we can talk about some kind of Amnesty and increased guest worker program.
 
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

You keep saying these are jobs Americans won't do but that's where you are wrong.

These are jobs Americans won't do for 6 bucks an hour.

Put Americans in those jobs and pay them a decent wage and then let's see where the economy goes.

I'll agree though, that there IS SOME TRADEOFF. The bottom line however is that it will greatly benefit our country to close the border and deport illegal aliens.

I'm all for compromise. Close the border FIRST THOUGH, and STOP THE FLOW of illegal aliens.

THEN we can talk about some kind of Amnesty and increased guest worker program.

The economy will go in the gutter if you pay a "clearing" wage as an economist would describe it. Lots of opportunities to make money for people higher up on the food chain would disappear or turn to crap quickly. The fact is you and most people in this country view these issues as a run of the mill worker does, which is a very narrow view that never takes the full economy into concern. Yes it would be fantastic for a worker to know he could now get $20/hour to work on a farm or $15/hour to clean dishes, but that would handcuff the economy. What's worse is you would hurt a lot of other businesses with such moves, businesses that were doing just fine. Workers would leave due to wage differential and existing businesses would suddenly be required to jack up wages or go without workers.

So sure some would be lucky and make more money, but millions would also be out of jobs as businesses big and small had to lay off workers because they either couldn't make a profit paying the going wage or more likely they couldn't keep businesses running due to a lack of sufficient workers. Even worse thousands of great new ventures which would have created millions of jobs won't even get off the ground.

To see evidence of this, just look at the business models that are getting off the ground because of outsourced labor. You can start up a high-tech business for a fraction what it used to cost in the 90s thanks to outsourced labor and open source software. This has created countless new ventures and with it plenty of new jobs in the US. Computing jobs were supposed to be dead end once India and China got steaming along; the opposite has proven true. More jobs are being created now and they pay high wages because the low end of the job ladder was given to sources outside the US economy.

This is just economic reality that is almost never heard in this immigration debate. Economies and societies win if they can get workers from other societies to do their lowest jobs because invariably it results in that society being enabled to increase the job level and subsequently the pay of its citizens. It never is efficient or beneficial for a country's economy to send people down the chain, which is what would happen if we kicked out illegal laborers.
 

ZZ CREAM

EOG Master
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

End of problem and end of our good economy. You think it is a good idea to "free up" 15 million mostly no-skill jobs and then make sure they get filled with American labor? Yeah real smart, that will move our economy forward. That is the whole problem with this debate. If people really want such a situation then fine, make such an argument. But it isn't just do this and everything is rosy. Make some real choices and admit there are some large trade-offs to the close the borders and deport all illegals argument.

If we have this realistic debate then I would feel like we as a nation can move forward on this. I have little hope of this though, both sides are reckless in their biased arguments.
You're right, it is a very complex issue but it is an issue that should be worked on bi-partisanly. Of course, that won't happen and like social security, the country will pay the price for these politicians too concerned about their own welfare and job security as opposed to the better good of the nation.
 
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">GET RID OF THE ILLEGAL ALIENS.
SHOOT THOSE THAT COME THROUGH THE FENCE
JAIL THOSE THAT USE ILLEGAL LABOR.
JAIL THOSE THAT HELP ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS GET HERE
EVERY TIME AN ILLEGAL ALIEN IS CAUGHT SEND HIM BACK ON HIS FKING TUBE RAFT HOME.

WHY THE RANT.

MY BUDDY GOT HIT 4 DAYS AGO BY AN ILLEGAL ALIEN WHILE ON VACATION IN NEW YORK. HE WAS CROSSING A CROSSWALK AND THE MEXICAN RAN A RED LIGHT AND HIT HIM..BROKE BOTH LEGS..HE IS IN HOSPITAL...THE ILLEGAL WAS CUT LOOSE BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT HOLD HIM DUE TO THE FACT HE WAS NOT A CITIZEN..WTF...SHOULD HAVE SHOTPUT HIS ASS BACK TO MEXICO.
SICK OF THIS CRAP.

</TD></TR><TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 1pt" height=1 UNSELECTABLE="on">

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Can you please point out the provision of the Constitution that grants this power to the Federal Government?
 

gopherbob

EOG Dedicated
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

You're right, it is a very complex issue but it is an issue that should be worked on bi-partisanly. Of course, that won't happen and like social security, the country will pay the price for these politicians too concerned about their own welfare and job security as opposed to the better good of the nation.

i heard several arguements (bill o'reilly included) that said if we heavily
fine those that use illegals, our economy will suffer very badly.
kind of like the arguements that the southern states used to maintain slavery.
 

ZZ CREAM

EOG Master
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

i heard several arguements (bill o'reilly included) that said if we heavily
fine those that use illegals, our economy will suffer very badly.
kind of like the arguements that the southern states used to maintain slavery.
Be careful. Dirty will attack you for your ignorance of the 'New South'!:LMAO :LMAO :LMAO
 
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

The economy will go in the gutter if you pay a "clearing" wage as an economist would describe it. Lots of opportunities to make money for people higher up on the food chain would disappear or turn to crap quickly. The fact is you and most people in this country view these issues as a run of the mill worker does, which is a very narrow view that never takes the full economy into concern. Yes it would be fantastic for a worker to know he could now get $20/hour to work on a farm or $15/hour to clean dishes, but that would handcuff the economy. What's worse is you would hurt a lot of other businesses with such moves, businesses that were doing just fine. Workers would leave due to wage differential and existing businesses would suddenly be required to jack up wages or go without workers.

So sure some would be lucky and make more money, but millions would also be out of jobs as businesses big and small had to lay off workers because they either couldn't make a profit paying the going wage or more likely they couldn't keep businesses running due to a lack of sufficient workers. Even worse thousands of great new ventures which would have created millions of jobs won't even get off the ground.

To see evidence of this, just look at the business models that are getting off the ground because of outsourced labor. You can start up a high-tech business for a fraction what it used to cost in the 90s thanks to outsourced labor and open source software. This has created countless new ventures and with it plenty of new jobs in the US. Computing jobs were supposed to be dead end once India and China got steaming along; the opposite has proven true. More jobs are being created now and they pay high wages because the low end of the job ladder was given to sources outside the US economy.

This is just economic reality that is almost never heard in this immigration debate. Economies and societies win if they can get workers from other societies to do their lowest jobs because invariably it results in that society being enabled to increase the job level and subsequently the pay of its citizens. It never is efficient or beneficial for a country's economy to send people down the chain, which is what would happen if we kicked out illegal laborers.

Why do you continue to insult me?

Where did I say 20 dollars an hour to work on a farm? Where did I say 15 dollars an hour to do dishes?

Your OUTLANDISH figures just show your unwillingness to see reality.

You continue to use language like you have above to act like you are above the issue, and that your opposition has no idea what they are talking about.

You try to use facts and I say, "let's talk facts" then you say you don't want to because the facts as the entire world sees them aren't in reality facts. They are just numbers conjured up by those who wish to end illegal immigration.

You know, it's becoming very hard for me to take seriously what you say in regards to the current state of the gambling industry when you continue to make a mockery of yourself regarding the only other issue on this forum that you've taken a stance on...
 
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

Why do you continue to insult me?

Where did I say 20 dollars an hour to work on a farm? Where did I say 15 dollars an hour to do dishes?

Your OUTLANDISH figures just show your unwillingness to see reality.

You continue to use language like you have above to act like you are above the issue, and that your opposition has no idea what they are talking about.

You try to use facts and I say, "let's talk facts" then you say you don't want to because the facts as the entire world sees them aren't in reality facts. They are just numbers conjured up by those who wish to end illegal immigration.

You know, it's becoming very hard for me to take seriously what you say in regards to the current state of the gambling industry when you continue to make a mockery of yourself regarding the only other issue on this forum that you've taken a stance on...

I'm sorry but you from an economic standpoint are wrong. If that is insulting I apologize. I am above the issue, I state facts that are squelched in this debate. Starting with the fact that we have no "crisis" by historical standards. People have been coming to this country with or without sanction since the days of Plymouth and Jamestown, and by my standards we along with a lot of countries that have lived off immigration have done better than most. Immigrants vote for the best situations with their feet and more choose us than others who seem a bit more "open" at this time. Yet our wealth continues to grow, our standard of living is far from "harmed".

This is above the fray thinking and I am pretty much alone taking a fairly risky view on this in light of the endless fear-filled rhetoric seen on both sides. I think we have no crisis and I think the best way to go forward would be to do nothing, let what has worked for centuries continue to drive our nation to be the best it can be. The free market does a pretty damn good job at determining what labor and inputs are needed.

If illegal labor isn't needed you will all be amazed at how fast people will stop crossing the border and how many of those here will pack up and leave. It won't take more than 6 months to adjust. How long do adjustments take when government gets involved? As long as the demand remains, the crossings and illegal residents will stay, much as any economist would tell you. Immigration and an evolving economy have made us great, I just don't think we should go messing with that. I would suggest a few tweaks here and there for immigration, mostly making it more open so we can be inclusive for these people when it comes to taxes and costs, but that seems to upset others. Sure there are rule of law considerations, but if you make the rules unworkable or unjust, how can you expect them to be followed?

As for your taking me seriously on the state of the gambling industry, do as you choose sir it doesn't really matter to me. Most people don't really pay much attention to what I or most everyone else says, they just continue to believe what they believe. We sports bettors are a breed of people who are pretty hard to change the minds of wouldn't you say?

Now I am sorry to all for hijacking this immigration bashing thread, carry on. I think I have stated my case for good and have little else to add in the future. Believe what you want, but remember the media and your politicians are extremely biased when it comes to this subject.
 

dirty

EOG Master
Re: CLOSE THE BORDERS

Shorty...Unfortunately as a business owner, I have to agree with Bill...

may not be $20 as a farm guy, or $15 as a dishwasher.....But the normal American will not work at McDonalds for $10 bucks a hour.....that means the $.99 Menu is gone and the Value meals are $5 to 8 Bucks a pop.......


There is a reaction to all wage increases across the board...Bill Looks at this issue from the big picture.....


what you guys say against it is not wrong... and it is not as easy as not hiring Illegals...

My father/myself Hires Hispanics all the time... and they show Proper ID.. they show social security cards and Green cards when asked..... the Sec calls and verifies and we move on.. WE know these are Bullshit and fake most likely..... and according to ZZ we are working within the law and being a good company.....ZZ You are the Man.. I am glad you don't run this Mother fucker.



Businesses can't be held accountable for documents that are given to you....
 
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