Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

munson15

I want winners...
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

dirty, im afraid to read it.. i dont wanna be excited about something that will never happen
Kind of how I feel, but Dirty's right-it would be a great thing for the country. Hard for me to believe that enough people elected to Washington would back this and eliminate the IRS, though. Tell you what, I've never voted Democratic in a Presidential election (voted since Ford in 1976), but the candidate who promises this idea will be implemented would get a good look from yours truly. Thanks for the info, Dirty.
 

ComptrBob

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

I haven't got time to wade through the book, so exactly how does the straight tax deal with the fact that apparently it would replace the existing 0.25% federal excise tax on sports bets? This amounts to a 100 fold increase to 25%.

Pretty clear that this would kill the Nevada sports betting industry, that alone is enough for me to be totally against it.
 

ZZ CREAM

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

And drop the traditional taxation as we know it?

Pay tax only on what you spend and not what you earn?

(25% approx)

Someday it will change, when is anyones guess but it will change it has to change.
With the stimulation of business through greater production and everyone paying their fair share, the actual number would be around 8 to 10 percent. I think it could even be less. So many people nowadays pay no taxes, or much less than they should. With a consumption tax, everyone would pay their fair share and be happy. Plus, we would see the added benefit of seeing the IRS and their agents put out of work, for the most part.
 

ZZ CREAM

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

I haven't got time to wade through the book, so exactly how does the straight tax deal with the fact that apparently it would replace the existing 0.25% federal excise tax on sports bets? This amounts to a 100 fold increase to 25%.

Pretty clear that this would kill the Nevada sports betting industry, that alone is enough for me to be totally against it.
I didn't know there were any bm's left in nevada, I thought they disappeared with the dinosaurs,(Pittsburgh Jack, Bob Martin and the rest of deli crew...............LOL.)
 

MCP

2
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

Something else to think about.. what about home sales ? you think they are stagnant now?? add in this huge tax...

And it's ironic this is being talked about NOW... when all the baby boomers are getting ready to retire and possibly sell their homes...
 

ZZ CREAM

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

Something else to think about.. what about home sales ? you think they are stagnant now?? add in this huge tax...

And it's ironic this is being talked about NOW... when all the baby boomers are getting ready to retire and possibly sell their homes...
Better late than never. What we have now has no chance of working for when the boomers can retire. But that might have to be when they are 100..............LOL.
 

roach23

Banned
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

Their would be no evaders... their would be little black market (except for drugs)

The cost of the Product would be the cost of the Product... No markup.... with the Markup gone then there is no way to have a black market....

and remember the Fairtax is only 23% on New items.. used items it cost what it costs.. no tax whatsoever.....takes the blackmarket away... You go buy a used car for $5k.. it costs ya $5k... but buy a new one for $30k you pay the 23-25%... but under the current system the car would have cost ya $40K plus Tax, tag and title

how do they plan on taxing services? back when i was in jersey i'd always pay my mechanic friend in cash to avoid tax...and that's only 7%...i'm sure tons more would be looking to do that when the tax is 23%
 

dirty

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

I dont know whether its a good idea or bad but...

Who will make up the tax revenue that the gov't would lose as a result? Someone has to.

"the Fairtax is the best thing that ever happened to the poor"

If the Fairtax is good for the rich AND the poor who will it fuck???


The Government will make more money than they know what to do with because No one can cheat it.... if you buy something you pay the tax... everything you buy will cost the same as it does now/cheaper because 25% will be marked off because of the embedded taxes.... You are only paying taxes if you buy something... it does not matter if you are rich, poor, Middle class, etc....

This will piss the socialists in our society off that are envious of the rich and feel they should pay for everything...but that is not right also....




dirty, how do the states make up for their lost tax dollars? how does ss function with no contributions?


The states will still get theirs... It is now embedded and you people don't realize you are paying it.... There will still be a "IRS" but it will be to distribute money only

I haven't got time to wade through the book, so exactly how does the straight tax deal with the fact that apparently it would replace the existing 0.25% federal excise tax on sports bets? This amounts to a 100 fold increase to 25%.

Pretty clear that this would kill the Nevada sports betting industry, that alone is enough for me to be totally against it.


How will it destroy Gambling:+clueless:+clueless:+clueless


still going to lay -110 to win 100 and the gambling commission or whoever will get the .25 out of that....WTF :+clueless




Something else to think about.. what about home sales ? you think they are stagnant now?? add in this huge tax...

And it's ironic this is being talked about NOW... when all the baby boomers are getting ready to retire and possibly sell their homes...


The Home would decrease by 25% from the embedded taxes not involved.... so you would not pay any more than you are now... you would pay the same or less




how do they plan on taxing services? back when i was in jersey i'd always pay my mechanic friend in cash to avoid tax...and that's only 7%...i'm sure tons more would be looking to do that when the tax is 23%


It would not matter if you paid cash, check, etc... Income tax would be gone and there would be nothing to hide.
 
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

Dirty,

How do you feel about the REPUBLICANS pushing through the UIGEA in the wee hours of the night 15 months ago?

Just curious? :+clueless
 

Journeyman

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

Pushing it through , generous way to put it....it was downright criminal.
 

dirty

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

Dirty,

How do you feel about the REPUBLICANS pushing through the UIGEA in the wee hours of the night 15 months ago?

Just curious? :+clueless


and what does that have to do with the Fair tax :+clueless
 

SSI

EOG Dedicated
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

i am a merchant and im assuming that we would do the collecting, just as i do the collecting now for state sales tax, that is paid monthly...

i can tell you how i could beat it but i better not.......
 

SSI

EOG Dedicated
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

Journey, are you trying to trap me..............
 

dirty

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

SSI ... there are always people who are going to be dishonest.... can't do anything about that...but the Fairtax will get more people paying in than not and will cut down on the cheating
 

SSI

EOG Dedicated
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

didnt say that i wasnt for it.............. like i said, im a merchant and im assuming that i would be doing the collecting, just like do right now, with the states sales tax....

i collect daily a (%) on everything purchased (except gas) and i pay the state the money collected........

i am about to send the dec sales tax off, i have to the 20th of the following month........... so i can run this about 20 days behind and then i must send the state a check......

im assuming that i will be doing the same thing with this, except that ill cut 2 checks, one to the federal gov't and one to the state gov't......... so there will be some extra bookwork for me.......

however i will (and do have) a sales tax exempt card that i can use for all my store purchases (wink wink), without paying any tax..........
 

Towelie

EOG Enthusiast
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

better chance of them eliminating the self employment tax while raising sales taxes to recoup revenue first before they go to a flat tax across the board. If the flat tax price was fair (doubt it would with the US govt) I think most of the population would be for it.
 

dirty

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

Bottom line is this...

If everyone got 1099'd and had to pay all their Taxes at the end of the year (state,local and federal) they would be outraged.....

Now the average american works until May before they turn a Profit.....The first 4 months is to pay taxes ONLY
 
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

It is a nice concept Dirty but it would be too hard to implement. Too much questioning about what status so many transactions require. If you go buy something purely for resale, you don't pay tax on it? What if you can't sell it? What is the price you sell it at, won't there be lots of phantom contracts like what happens with used cars in some states?

In theory it is a great idea, but just too much pain for a transition period and then too much temptation to game the system when the rate is that high. Anything about 10% just invites evasion.
 

dirty

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

It is very simple if you read the book... hard to explain on a message board... Boortz has been trying for years to cover every angle on his show and can't... No system is perfect.... It would abolish the IRS and make it to where everything you bought New you paid tax on... anything else you didn't....

I don't see how a New Car dealer could write a fake ticket for a used one....cause he would have to report it to the Manufacturer when he sold that Vehicle for warranty, etc...
 
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

It is very simple if you read the book... hard to explain on a message board... Boortz has been trying for years to cover every angle on his show and can't... No system is perfect.... It would abolish the IRS and make it to where everything you bought New you paid tax on... anything else you didn't....

I don't see how a New Car dealer could write a fake ticket for a used one....cause he would have to report it to the Manufacturer when he sold that Vehicle for warranty, etc...

Yeah but what about the short term pain? There are countless problems it would cause in a transition period. People in sales functions would be screwed. People who save well and spend little would be kings. And in the end we would become a nation of over-savers. Not a good thing when the country has its wealth because we learned how to be the best in the world in services.
 

dirty

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

Yeah but what about the short term pain? There are countless problems it would cause in a transition period. People in sales functions would be screwed. People who save well and spend little would be kings. And in the end we would become a nation of over-savers. Not a good thing when the country has its wealth because we learned how to be the best in the world in services.


Good Points and the book Brings up the Transition period... It has been a while since I read it... but it is not an overnight Change... it would be Implemented over a certain period...


Financially it would be Impossible to just abolish the IRS and start the Fair Tax..... But in theory the way it would Keep the economy going is people would be taking home more money so they would spend/Invest more....


I guarantee you that 75% of this country has no clue what Tax Bracket or how much in Taxes they pay each pay period... they only know what they Take home... Take home pay is what is important to most...Not the actual amount they make...
 

ComptrBob

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

"I haven't got time to wade through the book, so exactly how does the straight tax deal with the fact that apparently it would replace the existing 0.25% federal excise tax on sports bets? This amounts to a 100 fold increase to 25%.

Pretty clear that this would kill the Nevada sports betting industry, that alone is enough for me to be totally against it."


How will it destroy Gambling:+clueless:+clueless:+clueless


still going to lay -110 to win 100 and the gambling commission or whoever will get the .25 out of that....WTF :+clueless

Its hard to believe that anyone can be so dense to not see how a 25% tax on the amount of every sports wager made at fixed odds (i.e not pari-mutuel) would drastically affect the odds offered and/or radically reduce sports wagering, but I'll go through the math.

Let's say Nevada sports books continue to offer -110 odds even after the 25% tax is enacted. A bettor makes a $1100 "purchase" of a straight bet on a particular game. That triggers a $275 tax which, under "the current rules for the federal excise tax", the sportsbook agrees to pay. Let's say the book can balance its action for $1100 on the other side which triggers another $275 in tax.

With such balanced action, (ignore pushes) the book has taken $2200 in total revenue, paid $550 in taxes and will payout $2100 to the winner of the bet. This results in a net of $2200-2100-550 = -$450, a loss! Thus no book would make money with odds at offered at -110 even with balanced action.

In fact, to have the same profit of the current -110 odds, straight bets would have to be priced at around a ML of -244!

In fact, the history (pre-1974 or so) of Nevada sportsbooks includes a period when the tax was 10% and NOT A SINGLE CASINO in Vegas had a sportsbook! It just wasn't profitable. Imagine what a 25% tax would do.

Perhaps the following snipet (taken from a CNN article, note that the 2% reference in 1974 was later reduced to the current 0.25%) will cement the notion that a 25% tax on sports betting revenue is ridiculous:

... Until the mid-1970s, legalized sports betting in Nevada was confined to dimly lit, smoke-filled rooms in tiny turf clubs where the floor was the ashtray. Recalls Richard Davies, a history professor at the University of Nevada at Reno: "The aroma of stale cigar smoke, day-old spilled beer and greasy hot dogs generated an ambiance only a dedicated horse player could appreciate," which was appropriate, since most of the betting action was on horses, not sports. The casinos had no sports books.

The main reason: no money to be made. From 1951 to '74, the Federal Government levied a 10% excise tax on the amount of sports wagers. Since the profit margin before the tax was generally 5% or less, the tax made the business unprofitable. But in 1974, the Nevada congressional delegation helped persuade Congress to slash the tax from 10% to 2%. The rush was on. By 1988, wagers on all sports--professional and college--totaled $1.3 billion.
 
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

and what does that have to do with the Fair tax :+clueless

Nothing,

But once again, I was just asking you a question to see if I could get a straight answer and rather than reply with one, you ask a question? :+clueless

I am tired of all the spinning so I will not ask again..:cheers

Your political views are transparent and obvious...

We just disagree...

P.S.

How's FOX NEWS working for ya, lol?

THE SHRINK
 

ZZ CREAM

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

Nevada's legal books have no laydowns and very little overhead and still whine like the dickens. Most books in the real world have had to pay much more than 10 percent to their agents for a long time and still show a fine profit. Bottom line...............casino operators do not want to have to worry about having losing days with sportsbooks.
 

ComptrBob

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

Most books in the real world have had to pay much more than 10 percent to their agents for a long time and still show a fine profit. Bottom line...............casino operators do not want to have to worry about having losing days with sportsbooks.

Let me know who pays much more than 10% of their handle to their agents and I'll sign up to be an agent.

Such a book at -110, loses at least $120 for each $2200 of balanced action.
 

dirty

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

"I haven't got time to wade through the book, so exactly how does the straight tax deal with the fact that apparently it would replace the existing 0.25% federal excise tax on sports bets? This amounts to a 100 fold increase to 25%.

Pretty clear that this would kill the Nevada sports betting industry, that alone is enough for me to be totally against it."




Its hard to believe that anyone can be so dense to not see how a 25% tax on the amount of every sports wager made at fixed odds (i.e not pari-mutuel) would drastically affect the odds offered and/or radically reduce sports wagering, but I'll go through the math.

Let's say Nevada sports books continue to offer -110 odds even after the 25% tax is enacted. A bettor makes a $1100 "purchase" of a straight bet on a particular game. That triggers a $275 tax which, under "the current rules for the federal excise tax", the sportsbook agrees to pay. Let's say the book can balance its action for $1100 on the other side which triggers another $275 in tax.

With such balanced action, (ignore pushes) the book has taken $2200 in total revenue, paid $550 in taxes and will payout $2100 to the winner of the bet. This results in a net of $2200-2100-550 = -$450, a loss! Thus no book would make money with odds at offered at -110 even with balanced action.

In fact, to have the same profit of the current -110 odds, straight bets would have to be priced at around a ML of -244!

In fact, the history (pre-1974 or so) of Nevada sportsbooks includes a period when the tax was 10% and NOT A SINGLE CASINO in Vegas had a sportsbook! It just wasn't profitable. Imagine what a 25% tax would do.

Perhaps the following snipet (taken from a CNN article, note that the 2% reference in 1974 was later reduced to the current 0.25%) will cement the notion that a 25% tax on sports betting revenue is ridiculous:

... Until the mid-1970s, legalized sports betting in Nevada was confined to dimly lit, smoke-filled rooms in tiny turf clubs where the floor was the ashtray. Recalls Richard Davies, a history professor at the University of Nevada at Reno: "The aroma of stale cigar smoke, day-old spilled beer and greasy hot dogs generated an ambiance only a dedicated horse player could appreciate," which was appropriate, since most of the betting action was on horses, not sports. The casinos had no sports books.

The main reason: no money to be made. From 1951 to '74, the Federal Government levied a 10% excise tax on the amount of sports wagers. Since the profit margin before the tax was generally 5% or less, the tax made the business unprofitable. But in 1974, the Nevada congressional delegation helped persuade Congress to slash the tax from 10% to 2%. The rush was on. By 1988, wagers on all sports--professional and college--totaled $1.3 billion.


Please show me where anyone has said that the sportsbooks would be charged 25%... until you read the book and understand the plan you shouldn't comment....:cheers:cheers:cheers




Nothing,

But once again, I was just asking you a question to see if I could get a straight answer and rather than reply with one, you ask a question? :+clueless

I am tired of all the spinning so I will not ask again..:cheers

Your political views are transparent and obvious...

We just disagree...

P.S.

How's FOX NEWS working for ya, lol?

THE SHRINK


I don't know what it means to republicans... I don't talk to them every day..... Boy... I am sure if Obama or Hillary get elected and with a Democratic Congress ran by Pelosi, Reid, and the Ilk will Jump right in and repeal the Gaming act.... :+textinb3:+textinb3:+textinb3:+textinb3
 

ComptrBob

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

Please show me where anyone has said that the sportsbooks would be charged 25%... until you read the book and understand the plan you shouldn't comment....:cheers:cheers:cheers

Fine. I'm not going to bother to read the book especially since you can't explain how the "Fair tax" doesn't apply to sports tickets.

Count me as a NO vote.
 

dirty

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

The book does not go through each individual Industry and explain how they would be effected....

I am sure if you emailed Neal Boortz he would explain.


boortz.com: The world-famous Internet site of the Nationally Syndicated Neal Boortz Show!


I still don't see how things would have to change....Bets don't have an overhead (naturally) and never would anyone think you would have to lay 125+/100 for the books to make a Profit... This tax is intended to stimulate growth and spending....Not hinder it
 

ComptrBob

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

The book does not go through each individual Industry and explain how they would be effected....

I am sure if you emailed Neal Boortz he would explain.


boortz.com: The world-famous Internet site of the Nationally Syndicated Neal Boortz Show!


I still don't see how things would have to change....Bets don't have an overhead (naturally) and never would anyone think you would have to lay 125+/100 for the books to make a Profit... This tax is intended to stimulate growth and spending....Not hinder it

Have Neal post the answer here. I don't have time to track him down on an issue so easily answered.
 

dirty

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

Have Neal post the answer here. I don't have time to track him down on an issue so easily answered.


typical from someone who is afraid of the truth.. make excuses:whatever:

The time it took you to respond in this thread is more than enough to email him...but don't let the facts get in the way of an agenda
 

ComptrBob

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

typical from someone who is afraid of the truth.. make excuses:whatever:

The time it took you to respond in this thread is more than enough to email him...but don't let the facts get in the way of an agenda

The agenda here is totally yours. From your responses here, you seem to not have enough intelligence to answer a simple question.

Therefore, again, my vote is NO.
 

ZZ CREAM

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

Let me know who pays much more than 10% of their handle to their agents and I'll sign up to be an agent.

Such a book at -110, loses at least $120 for each $2200 of balanced action.
I won't get into more semantics but any agent making more than 25 percent on his players' losses would probably qualify. I will admit, I may be wrong, handle is obviously much more difficult to profit off of but, even in George Bush America I do not believe these idiots would go there. Why not tax profits like every other business in America?
 

Journeyman

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

Bottom line is this...

If everyone got 1099'd and had to pay all their Taxes at the end of the year (state,local and federal) they would be outraged.....

Now the average american works until May before they turn a Profit.....The first 4 months is to pay taxes ONLY


That is so true. :doh1
 

ronaldn

EOG Member
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

Fine. I'm not going to bother to read the book especially since you can't explain how the "Fair tax" doesn't apply to sports tickets.

Count me as a NO vote.

Under the FAIR TAX only new products are taxed. Services are NOT TAXED. Resales are not taxed. Sports bets wouldn't be taxed at all.
 

ComptrBob

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

Under the FAIR TAX only new products are taxed. Services are NOT TAXED. Resales are not taxed. Sports bets wouldn't be taxed at all.

This "explanation" doesn't make much sense. A sports bet certainly is a new product. It is an independent financial contract created at the time of the bet contigent on the sportsbook rules for settlement.

Sports bets may well be exempt from taxes under the FAIR TAX regime, but certainly not by their nature, they clearly are NOT SERVICES NOR A RESALE.
 
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

This flat tax issue has been around forever, and it always goes nowhere.

More chance of the Earth being flat than the tax.
 

ronaldn

EOG Member
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

This "explanation" doesn't make much sense. A sports bet certainly is a new product. It is an independent financial contract created at the time of the bet contigent on the sportsbook rules for settlement.

Sports bets may well be exempt from taxes under the FAIR TAX regime, but certainly not by their nature, they clearly are NOT SERVICES NOR A RESALE.

Why don't you just read the book?
 

dirty

EOG Master
Re: Would you like to see a straight 25% tax on everything purchased?

ronald... he obviously just wants to argue... look at his past posts... only here to challenge someone 90% of the time..... He is a Programmed Idiot only good with Numbers and is probably scared of a 2" thick book with mostly letters
 
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