Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

Flamingo kid

Flamingo kid

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Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

<TABLE class=" gSGTable" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width=700 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class="bar gSGSectionTitle" colSpan=6>All Time Leaders: Points </TD></TR><TR class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings noWrap width=300> Player </TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings noWrap align=right width=60>G</TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings noWrap align=right width=60>FG</TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings noWrap align=right width=60>FT</TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings noWrap align=right width=60>PPG</TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings noWrap align=right width=60>PTS</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowEven> 1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar </TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>1,560</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>15,837</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>6,712</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>24.6</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>38,387</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowOdd> 2. Karl Malone </TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>1,476</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>13,528</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>9,787</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>25.0</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>36,928</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowEven> 3. Michael Jordan </TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>1,072</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>12,192</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>7,327</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>30.1</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>32,292</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowOdd> 4. Wilt Chamberlain </TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>1,045</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>12,681</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>6,057</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>30.1</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>31,419</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowEven> 5. Moses Malone </TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>1,329</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>9,435</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>8,531</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>20.6</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>27,409</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowOdd> 6. Elvin Hayes </TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>1,303</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>10,976</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>5,356</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>21.0</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>27,313</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowEven> 7. Hakeem Olajuwon </TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>1,238</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>10,749</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>5,423</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>21.8</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>26,946</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowOdd> 8. Oscar Robertson </TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>1,040</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>9,508</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>7,694</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>25.7</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>26,710</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowEven> 9. Dominique Wilkins </TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>1,074</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>9,963</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>6,031</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>24.8</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>26,668</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowOdd> 10. John Havlicek </TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>1,270</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>10,513</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>5,369</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>20.8</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>26,395</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowEven> 11. Shaquille O'Neal </TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>1,042</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>10,422</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>5,441</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>25.2</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>26,286</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowOdd> 12. Alex English </TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>1,193</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>10,659</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>4,277</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>21.5</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>25,613</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowEven> 13. Reggie Miller </TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>1,389</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>8,241</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>6,237</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>18.2</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>25,279</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowOdd> 14. Jerry West </TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>932</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>9,016</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>7,160</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>27.0</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>25,192</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowEven> 15. Patrick Ewing </TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>1,183</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>9,702</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>5,392</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>21.0</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>24,815</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowOdd> 16. Charles Barkley </TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>1,073</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>8,435</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>6,349</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>22.1</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>23,757</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowEven> 17. Robert Parish </TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>1,611</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>9,614</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>4,106</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>14.5</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>23,334</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowOdd> 18. Adrian Dantley </TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>955</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>8,169</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>6,832</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>24.3</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>23,177</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowEven> 19. Elgin Baylor </TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>846</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>8,693</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>5,763</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>27.4</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>23,149</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowOdd> 20. Allen Iverson </TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>829</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>7,983</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>6,000</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>27.7</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>22,988</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowEven> 21. Clyde Drexler </TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>1,086</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>8,335</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>4,698</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>20.4</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>22,195</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowOdd> 22. Gary Payton </TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>1,335</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>8,708</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>3,265</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>16.3</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>21,813</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowEven> 23. Larry Bird </TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>897</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>8,591</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>3,960</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>24.3</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>21,791</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowOdd> 24. Kobe Bryant </TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>866</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>7,456</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>5,621</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>25.0</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>21,619</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowEven> 25. Hal Greer </TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>1,122</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>8,504</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>4,578</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>19.2</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>21,586</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowOdd> 26. Walt Bellamy </TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>1,043</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>7,914</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>5,113</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>20.1</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>20,941</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowEven> 27. Bob Pettit </TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>792</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>7,349</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>6,182</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>26.4</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>20,880</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowOdd> 28. David Robinson </TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>987</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>7,365</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>6,035</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>21.1</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>20,790</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowEven> 29. George Gervin </TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>791</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>8,045</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>4,541</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>26.2</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven align=right>20,708</TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGRowOdd> 30. Mitch Richmond </TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>976</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>7,305</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>4,561</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>21.0</TD><TD class=gSGRowOdd align=right>20,497</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 
Flamingo kid

Flamingo kid

Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

d ray said:
didn't you say points don't matter before?
Click to expand...

There's gotta be some way to measure who the better players are in this sport. I'll start with points scored and work around that. If Player A scores 30,000 points and Player B scores 20,000 points (all hypothetical) than we have to assume that Player A is better than Player B.

Don't we?
 
d ray

d ray

EOG Dedicated
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

not if player B played 10 seasons and player A played 20.
 
royboy

royboy

EOG Dedicated
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

Flamingo kid said:
The guy has as many points as Larry Bird who is in EVERYONES top ten list. to say he's a 'fringe' player is an insult to a guy who will have thousands of more points than 'larry legend' when all is said and done.
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i already stated i think the total points is garbage, what matters imo is the ppg. just because he's going to play a hell of a lot more games than larry legend doesn't make him a better player.
 
Flamingo kid

Flamingo kid

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Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

royboy said:
i already stated i think the total points is garbage, what matters imo is the ppg. just because he's going to play a hell of a lot more games than larry legend doesn't make him a better player.
Click to expand...

It doesn't?
 
A

Apple

Banned
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

royboy said:
i already stated i think the total points is garbage, what matters imo is the ppg. just because he's going to play a hell of a lot more games than larry legend doesn't make him a better player.
Click to expand...

Agree 100% bud.. Only reason Parish is even on the list
 
Flamingo kid

Flamingo kid

Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

royboy said:
not imo... just because bird was unlucky and had his career shortened by a bad back doesn't diminish how great he was when he was on the court.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying Bird wasn't great, but being able to actually play is part of overall greatness imo.
 
Flamingo kid

Flamingo kid

Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

TomBrady#1 said:
Jman, take it easy on FK. WIth all due respect the guy asks for the halftime line because he does not know where to find it? He questions lines that are obvious. He opinions are often off base. LEt it slide. FK is a decent guy just not equipped to battle with a smart poster (though he should realize that). Don't be a bully, Jman with all due respect if you know what I mean.
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:LMAO

Good one TB #1, good one. I appreciate the general blanket statement that my opinions are often off base. I take that as a compliment coming from you.

When you start thinking i'm a smart poster, i'm in big fucking trouble. 12io4j2w90
 
5

5 star bomb

EOG Master
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

Got in a huge debate at the bar while I was bar-tending tonight... I feel Lebron is better than Kobe, however nobody agreed with me!! Lebron is better!!!! Kobe isnt even top 15 all time!
 
Flamingo kid

Flamingo kid

Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

5 star bomb said:
Got in a huge debate at the bar while I was bar-tending tonight... I feel Lebron is better than Kobe, however nobody agreed with me!! Lebron is better!!!! Kobe isnt even top 15 all time!
Click to expand...

Why stop there, just say he's not in the top 100 and round it off.
 
TomBrady#1

TomBrady#1

EOG Dedicated
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

Flamingo kid said:
:LMAO

Good one TB #1, good one. I appreciate the general blanket statement that my opinions are often off base. I take that as a compliment coming from you.

When you start thinking i'm a smart poster, i'm in big fucking trouble. 12io4j2w90
Click to expand...

Believe it or not I was trying to help. You have no clue at all like your questions on where you can find halftime lines? Or this koby/MJ comparison. I was trying to get Jman to stop from embarrassing you further. No need for that and I felt bad, believe it or not.
 
MadCapper

MadCapper

Head <in> Moderation
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

dumb.

when kobe finishes his career he will easily be in the top 10. Probably top 5.

come back to this in 2012 when the lakers win championships in 09,10,11
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

EOG Master
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

MadCapper said:
dumb.

when kobe finishes his career he will easily be in the top 10. Probably top 5.

come back to this in 2012 when the lakers win championships in 09,10,11
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FTR

I never said Kobe wasn't a great player, he has had his problems in the Finals, when he's suppose to step up, and of course blowing the biggest lead in Finals history....even when LA is winning they look at best like they backed in last night...this series is over, this was Paul Pierce's Final.

What was done in this thread was Flamingo Kid saying he would beat Jordan 'in all the important stats'. ...he is not Jordan and never will be, he's already blown to many big games.

lol guaranteeing Kobe wins in 09-10-11? It's easy to say something outlandish klike that, you can't lose , only win if it happens....they are no guarantee to even make it back to the Finals, even if they will be favored to.

To say Kobe is top 5 is questionable , he's not there yet, not really that close either. What is it based on his playing 2nd fiddle to Shaq and winning 3 titles?

Is Shaq rated behind Kobe? :pop:

Guess you have to take admitted Kobe fanatics opinions about Kobe, just as that.
 
MadCapper

MadCapper

Head <in> Moderation
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

Shaq was in his prime then and Kobe was 21,22,23 yrs old in those finals. He still played pretty damn well!

Lakers have no one to blame but themselves for this series. They should have won game 1 and obviously game 4.

I still believe the Lakers can take it to a 7th game.

Then we will be better able to judge Kobe.
 
TomBrady#1

TomBrady#1

EOG Dedicated
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

MadCapper said:
Shaq was in his prime then and Kobe was 21,22,23 yrs old in those finals. He still played pretty damn well!

Lakers have no one to blame but themselves for this series. They should have won game 1 and obviously game 4.

I still believe the Lakers can take it to a 7th game.

Then we will be better able to judge Kobe.
Click to expand...


It is absurd, not fair and pathetic to compare Koby to Jordan all the time. Different time, situation and eras. Koby has won multiple championships and is not done yet. The guy is one of the greats. Oh yeah these same people are also comparing Lebron James to Jordan too....it is pathetically unfair for many reasons to compare a 23 year old to Jordan. Instead of talking about how great these guys are (and James and Koby when all said and done are two of the absolute elite in NBA history)...we get to listen to how they are not as good as Jordan. It really is ridiculous. Unreal. If you ask any NBA guru to talk about James and Koby and they will talk about all their greatness and talent. Guaranteed! To listen to negatives about these two is incredibly wrong in my opinion. These guys are so talented and great it is scary. Instead we listen and read about put downs and comparisons. Sad.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

EOG Master
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

MadCapper said:
Shaq was in his prime then and Kobe was 21,22,23 yrs old in those finals. He still played pretty damn well!

Lakers have no one to blame but themselves for this series. They should have won game 1 and obviously game 4.

I still believe the Lakers can take it to a 7th game.

Then we will be better able to judge Kobe.
Click to expand...

And if they don't win this series MC?

Should of's? :cool:

Jordan 'should of' played the other two years and maybe/probably made it 8 straight....the only thing that stopped Jordan and the Bulls was themselves.

Kobe will never be MJ....he's not even outplaying Paul Pierce :rolleyes: the way he's been neutralized now TWICE in the NBA Finals, by two different opponents , you have to look at that.

I'm a big Kobe fan, but the comparison to MJ should cease until he wins a title or two as the main guy.
 
Flamingo kid

Flamingo kid

Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

TomBrady#1 said:
Believe it or not I was trying to help. You have no clue at all like your questions on where you can find halftime lines? Or this koby/MJ comparison. I was trying to get Jman to stop from embarrassing you further. No need for that and I felt bad, believe it or not.
Click to expand...

I can find halftime lines if i want to, i just thought it would be easier to ask here. I apologize for asking questions and not being a know it all like you are.
 
Flamingo kid

Flamingo kid

Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

Journeyman said:
FTR

I never said Kobe wasn't a great player, he has had his problems in the Finals, when he's suppose to step up, and of course blowing the biggest lead in Finals history....even when LA is winning they look at best like they backed in last night...this series is over, this was Paul Pierce's Final.

What was done in this thread was Flamingo Kid saying he would beat Jordan 'in all the important stats'. ...he is not Jordan and never will be, he's already blown to many big games.

lol guaranteeing Kobe wins in 09-10-11? It's easy to say something outlandish klike that, you can't lose , only win if it happens....they are no guarantee to even make it back to the Finals, even if they will be favored to.

To say Kobe is top 5 is questionable , he's not there yet, not really that close either. What is it based on his playing 2nd fiddle to Shaq and winning 3 titles?

Is Shaq rated behind Kobe? :pop:

Guess you have to take admitted Kobe fanatics opinions about Kobe, just as that.
Click to expand...

This is where we are a bit confused. Kobe didn't 'blow' the lead the other night, the lakers blew the lead.....basketball is a team sport, so whatever teams do is really no reflect on the players greatness. If Jordan played his entire career with a bad team, he would have zero titles and no one would be talking about him the same way. I don't want to compare players based on things they did that are team oriented....if we want to compare player vs player, we have to do it from an individual statistics standpoint as there is really no other way.

Saying that one player is better than the other guy just because he happened to always be on great teams isn't fair as its totally pot luck as to which team a player plays for.

In my opinion, the most important stat in basketball is points scored. The name of the game is to put the ball in the basket and score points...the people who do that the best are the best players, since scoring points is the object of the game. At the end of their careers, we will see who scored more points, Jordan or Bryant and then we can discuss this further.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

EOG Master
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

You are so foolish in this argument I will have to just tip my hat.

Do you even realize what kind of team Jordan was drafted into? Unlike Bird and Magic and Kobe and many others, his Bulls were dogshit when he arrived, and it didn't happen overnight, he didn't go to the Lakers or Celtics.

While Bird's Celts were bad the yr before he arrived the Celtics did have a lot of pieces in places and turned it around very fast.....it took a lot for the Bulls to get to the finals.

You must not remember anything before 1991.
 
Flamingo kid

Flamingo kid

Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

Journeyman said:
You are so foolish in this argument I will have to just tip my hat.

Do you even realize what kind of team Jordan was drafted into? Unlike Bird and Magic and Kobe and many others, his Bulls were dogshit when he arrived, and it didn't happen overnight, he didn't go to the Lakers or Celtics.

While Bird's Celts were bad the yr before he arrived the Celtics did have a lot of pieces in places and turned it around very fast.....it took a lot for the Bulls to get to the finals.

You must not remember anything before 1991.
Click to expand...

That's your opinion that the Bulls were dogshit. I dont' want to get into opinions, i want actual statistics to bear things out. Why not discuss the stats, why try and discuss all this rhetoric and what if's? I think the Bulls were a great team, they wouldn't have won all those titles with Jordan and a bunch of nobodies...you need great players around you, this is a team game, one man can't do it himself.
 
royboy

royboy

EOG Dedicated
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

Flamingo kid said:
In my opinion, the most important stat in basketball is points scored. The name of the game is to put the ball in the basket and score points...the people who do that the best are the best players, since scoring points is the object of the game. At the end of their careers, we will see who scored more points, Jordan or Bryant and then we can discuss this further.
Click to expand...


no way this is the same guy who in post 48 said "ppg doesn't mean anything". wtf man?

so ppg means nothing but total points over a career is the defining stat for players? can't believe you actually believe this argument, oh well.

let's say you have player a who plays 20 years and averages 15 ppg. then you have player b you plays 10 years and averages 25 ppg but career ends prematurely for whatever reason. i could see how you might say player a was more durable and even valuable to his franchise because he contributed for a longer period of time. what i can't see is how you could actually say player a was the better player.
 
Last edited:
OSUCOWBOYS

OSUCOWBOYS

2
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

Flamingo kid said:
Thats because Kobe is more of a team player than Jordan. PPG doesn't mean anything. Kobe could average 40 a night if he ballhogged.
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Flamingo kid said:
We are talking about final career vs final career. Kobe still has many more years to go.....its pretty obvious that Jordan, at this point, is ahead of Kobe in almost every category just because he played more years. I'm not even going to get into the argument that the NBA players of today are bigger, faster, stronger and much more talented....which means Kobe's competition was WAY better than the guys Jordan had to play against.
Click to expand...

Flamingo kid said:
There's gotta be some way to measure who the better players are in this sport. I'll start with points scored and work around that. If Player A scores 30,000 points and Player B scores 20,000 points (all hypothetical) than we have to assume that Player A is better than Player B.

Don't we?
Click to expand...

Flamingo kid said:
This is where we are a bit confused. Kobe didn't 'blow' the lead the other night, the lakers blew the lead.....basketball is a team sport, so whatever teams do is really no reflect on the players greatness. If Jordan played his entire career with a bad team, he would have zero titles and no one would be talking about him the same way. I don't want to compare players based on things they did that are team oriented....if we want to compare player vs player, we have to do it from an individual statistics standpoint as there is really no other way.

Saying that one player is better than the other guy just because he happened to always be on great teams isn't fair as its totally pot luck as to which team a player plays for.

In my opinion, the most important stat in basketball is points scored. The name of the game is to put the ball in the basket and score points...the people who do that the best are the best players, since scoring points is the object of the game. At the end of their careers, we will see who scored more points, Jordan or Bryant and then we can discuss this further.
Click to expand...

Flamingo kid said:
That's your opinion that the Bulls were dogshit. I dont' want to get into opinions, i want actual statistics to bear things out. Why not discuss the stats, why try and discuss all this rhetoric and what if's? I think the Bulls were a great team, they wouldn't have won all those titles with Jordan and a bunch of nobodies...you need great players around you, this is a team game, one man can't do it himself.
Click to expand...

2348ji23e
 
Flamingo kid

Flamingo kid

Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

royboy said:
no way this is the same guy who in post 48 said "ppg doesn't mean anything". wtf man?

so ppg means nothing but total points over a career is the defining stat for players? can't believe you actually believe this argument, oh well.

let's say you have player a who plays 20 years and averages 15 ppg. then you have player b you plays 10 years and averages 25 ppg but career ends prematurely for whatever reason. i could see how you might say player a was more durable and even valuable to his franchise because he contributed for a longer period of time. what i can't see is how you could actually say player a was the better player.
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You START the discussion with points scored and work from there. We are supposed to assume that the players with the most points were the better players....UNLESS there's a specific reason(s) that a player with LESS points is better.
 
royboy

royboy

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Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

Flamingo kid said:
You START the discussion with points scored and work from there. We are supposed to assume that the players with the most points were the better players....UNLESS there's a specific reason(s) that a player with LESS points is better.[/quote]


well the reason he'll have more points will be because kobe will probably play many more games than mj. one reason because kobe came straight out of hs, and another because jordan's dad was killed and he took a break, pretty valid reason's imo. ppg a MUCH better indicator, and especially ppg in the playoffs. you can't deny that, and mj dominates there.

plus, aside from scoring, mj was probably a notch above kobe's game in almost every other facet of basketball. i would give kobe the nod on 3 pt shooting, but that's about it.
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Flamingo kid

Flamingo kid

Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

royboy said:
Flamingo kid said:
You START the discussion with points scored and work from there. We are supposed to assume that the players with the most points were the better players....UNLESS there's a specific reason(s) that a player with LESS points is better.[/quote]


well the reason will be because kobe will probably play many more games than mj. one reason because kobe came straight out of hs, and another because jordan's dad was killed and he took a break, pretty valid reason's imo. ppg a MUCH better indicator, and especially ppg in the playoffs. you can't deny that, and mj dominates there.

plus, aside from scoring, mj was probably a notch above kobe's game in almost every other facet of basketball. i would give kobe the nod on 3 pt shooting, but that's about it.
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I understand all your points. They are all valid. I just don't like people saying that Jordan is so much better than Kobe its ridiculous. If you want to say Jordan is better, that's fine, i can see your argument...but for anyone to say that Kobe and Jordan aren't even close, well, that's just not correct.
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OSUCOWBOYS

OSUCOWBOYS

2
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

Could Paul Pierce slow down MJ while scoring 29.0 PPG?


(This is what he has done since he personally took on guarding Kobe)
 
Almost Allright

Almost Allright

GO Bucks!!!
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

Guys great thread. I went back to Ohio to visit my family this weekend and just got back. As i watched the games this weekend I was guessing what threads i would see and this is definitely one I guessed. I love the Lakers but am not a huge Kobe fan per se. he just happens to be on the team I love. That aside I think this comparison is tough to make. Even since Jordan ruled the day the game has changed. The Celtics are playing one of the bet 1-2-2 zones I have ever seen as soon as Kobe has the ball on top or catches on the wing. The rules alone assured Jordan never faced a team D like the Celtics.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

EOG Master
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

Flamingo kid said:
That's your opinion that the Bulls were dogshit. I dont' want to get into opinions, i want actual statistics to bear things out. Why not discuss the stats, why try and discuss all this rhetoric and what if's? I think the Bulls were a great team, they wouldn't have won all those titles with Jordan and a bunch of nobodies...you need great players around you, this is a team game, one man can't do it himself.
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LMAO, with every post you look more foolish here.

1983-84 Chicago Bulls

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27-55, Finished 5th in NBA Central Division (Game Results)
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Flamingo kid

Flamingo kid

Everybody's hands go UP!
Journeyman

Journeyman

EOG Master
Re: Kobe not in top 10 of all-time

Flamingo kid said:
So what you are telling me is that the team the bulls had BEFORE Jordan came there was the exact same team he played with his entire career? There were no new players the Bulls added to their team after MJ got there?
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of course not!

I said when he arrived the Bulls sucked, you asked for proof...what the fuck has happened to you man?

:mad:
 
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