TomBrady#1
EOG Dedicated
his 11-2 post season is the clincher and when healthy he has been a great pitcher. This is your forte. I know this has been discussed. Thoughts?
Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
- Thread starter TomBrady#1
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Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
5 star bomb
EOG Master
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
Schilling is a lock... his post season brilliance assures him into the HOF
Schilling is a lock... his post season brilliance assures him into the HOF
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
Let's take a look....oh and where is Bob Ryan from?
Let's take a look....oh and where is Bob Ryan from?
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
I'll say this upfront, and we've discussed Curt before....the ONLY reason he gets in is his historic post season moments, now lets take a look.
I'll say this upfront, and we've discussed Curt before....the ONLY reason he gets in is his historic post season moments, now lets take a look.
TomBrady#1
EOG Dedicated
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
He is from Boston Jman. I usually find him fair. Is he wrong?
Let's take a look....oh and where is Bob Ryan from?
He is from Boston Jman. I usually find him fair. Is he wrong?
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
At age 30 Schilling had just TWO seasons with double digit wins...that's ridiculously weak for a HOFer. 14-11 and 16-7 with Philly....so at age 30 that is all he had!
At age 30 Schilling had just TWO seasons with double digit wins...that's ridiculously weak for a HOFer. 14-11 and 16-7 with Philly....so at age 30 that is all he had!
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
I think most of you guys just say yeah or nay and don't really break it down.
I think most of you guys just say yeah or nay and don't really break it down.
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
Curt Schilling 216 -146 ERA 3.46
Kenny Rogers 215-147
David Wells 239-157
Jack Morris 254-186
Curt Schilling 216 -146 ERA 3.46
Kenny Rogers 215-147
David Wells 239-157
Jack Morris 254-186
TomBrady#1
EOG Dedicated
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
So you do not think he is in? Is that where you are leaning?
So you do not think he is in? Is that where you are leaning?
5 star bomb
EOG Master
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
Playoffs......... Name 10 pitchers in history of baseball that are better than him in crunch time in the post season.... End of story. Lock for HOF
Playoffs......... Name 10 pitchers in history of baseball that are better than him in crunch time in the post season.... End of story. Lock for HOF
TomBrady#1
EOG Dedicated
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
11-2 postseason and postseason heroics puts him way ahead of Rodgers. WAYYYYYY ahead.
11-2 postseason and postseason heroics puts him way ahead of Rodgers. WAYYYYYY ahead.
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
post from 3 years ago
Before you jump in and say YES based off of his World Series heroics of the past 5 years and particularly last season's improbable WS journey, take a look at his entire career...
When the dust settles is he in or out of Cooperstown?
The arguement for;
Two World Series Rings and both in very dramatic fashion.
Finished 2nd for Cy Young 3 times
3-time 20 game winner
184 wins coming into this season, will finish with over 200 career wins
Co MVP 2001 WS
The arguement against
Up until age 33 he was a slightly above average ,compiling a record of 110- 89.
11 seasons where he was a .500 or less pitcher.
He was 52-52 at age 29.
It comes down to this, he has had a great run in the latter part of his career, and has won two very high profile World Series where he had a major impact....
Is that enough to get him into the Hall of Fame?
<!-- / message -->
post from 3 years ago
Before you jump in and say YES based off of his World Series heroics of the past 5 years and particularly last season's improbable WS journey, take a look at his entire career...
When the dust settles is he in or out of Cooperstown?
The arguement for;
Two World Series Rings and both in very dramatic fashion.
Finished 2nd for Cy Young 3 times
3-time 20 game winner
184 wins coming into this season, will finish with over 200 career wins
Co MVP 2001 WS
The arguement against
Up until age 33 he was a slightly above average ,compiling a record of 110- 89.
11 seasons where he was a .500 or less pitcher.
He was 52-52 at age 29.
It comes down to this, he has had a great run in the latter part of his career, and has won two very high profile World Series where he had a major impact....
Is that enough to get him into the Hall of Fame?
<!-- / message -->
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
isn't he 10-2? :+clueless
isn't he 10-2? :+clueless
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
Yeah but regular season has to matter somewhat....like I said, his only leg (and it is a big one) to stand on is his post season accompishments.
Yeah but regular season has to matter somewhat....like I said, his only leg (and it is a big one) to stand on is his post season accompishments.
TomBrady#1
EOG Dedicated
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
They said 11-2 on the show. I am not sure. Your are right. You gotta break it down AND compare him to his contemporaries like you did. His postseason just might be the difference.
They said 11-2 on the show. I am not sure. Your are right. You gotta break it down AND compare him to his contemporaries like you did. His postseason just might be the difference.
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
Here's what I think...he will probably get in , yes ironically media driven lol, but they are the voters, Curt is an ESPN era HOFer.
I like the HOF to be for legends not guys who won 15 games a couple times by age 30 and then went to a few World Series and did a great , also a great sound bite guy, WHATEVER!
The Hall of Very Good will add Curt someday, I wouldn't vote for him.
Here's what I think...he will probably get in , yes ironically media driven lol, but they are the voters, Curt is an ESPN era HOFer.
I like the HOF to be for legends not guys who won 15 games a couple times by age 30 and then went to a few World Series and did a great , also a great sound bite guy, WHATEVER!
The Hall of Very Good will add Curt someday, I wouldn't vote for him.
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
Also remember post season is expanded now which helps him get more opps...., yeah he did a great job, the bloody sock drama and playing in Boston and dethroning the evil empire several times.
I like my HOFers with 17-20 years great careers that start great, peak and finish off in style...he doesn't fit that.
I can see why many will say YES though.
Also remember post season is expanded now which helps him get more opps...., yeah he did a great job, the bloody sock drama and playing in Boston and dethroning the evil empire several times.
I like my HOFers with 17-20 years great careers that start great, peak and finish off in style...he doesn't fit that.
I can see why many will say YES though.
TomBrady#1
EOG Dedicated
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
I hear you. Over the last 10 years, how many starters have been better than him? 10 years are a long time. I say he is way up on that list?
I hear you. Over the last 10 years, how many starters have been better than him? 10 years are a long time. I say he is way up on that list?
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
I hear you too....what do you think? I am guessing yes?
I hear you too....what do you think? I am guessing yes?
TomBrady#1
EOG Dedicated
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
Like you said...you gotta break it down. I say for the past 10 years he has been easily one of the top 6 or 7 starters in baseball (I have not broken it down though but just an educated guess) PLUS his postseason. That is enough for him to get in. LOL.
Like you said...you gotta break it down. I say for the past 10 years he has been easily one of the top 6 or 7 starters in baseball (I have not broken it down though but just an educated guess) PLUS his postseason. That is enough for him to get in. LOL.
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
If you count just the last ten years maybe Jamie Moyer! LOL
I don't care for the '10 year HOF' types....the HOF was suppose to be for immortal players not very good players, shall I post all his crap years?
I'm surprised you're so unsacred about baseball.
If you count just the last ten years maybe Jamie Moyer! LOL
I don't care for the '10 year HOF' types....the HOF was suppose to be for immortal players not very good players, shall I post all his crap years?
I'm surprised you're so unsacred about baseball.
TomBrady#1
EOG Dedicated
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
Jman, it is all relative. Example: YAz won the batting title in 68 I think with a .301 average. You cannot look at his BA and criticize him for that with his lifetime avg that might be lower. For whatever reason THAT YEAR the hitters avg was lower (I think they raised the mounds) but he was stil the best that year. Him being the best matters but not his avg of .301. Make sense? I say if a guy is the best over a 10 year period, then that is going to make a strong consideration for the Hall. Even if he was avg the preceding 5 years. Not sure ifyou see it this way but if a guy is the best or one of them for awhile, then that matters to me. BTW, I made no strong case for Schilling. Just giving thoughts.
Jman, it is all relative. Example: YAz won the batting title in 68 I think with a .301 average. You cannot look at his BA and criticize him for that with his lifetime avg that might be lower. For whatever reason THAT YEAR the hitters avg was lower (I think they raised the mounds) but he was stil the best that year. Him being the best matters but not his avg of .301. Make sense? I say if a guy is the best over a 10 year period, then that is going to make a strong consideration for the Hall. Even if he was avg the preceding 5 years. Not sure ifyou see it this way but if a guy is the best or one of them for awhile, then that matters to me. BTW, I made no strong case for Schilling. Just giving thoughts.
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
No doubt it is relative and that is what I say ALL THE TIME!
an 80's star who hit 500 HR and had 2000 RBI like an Eddie Murray, compare that to today's drug inflated players, Raffy Palmiero couldn't hold Eddie Murray's jock but he has the numbers and he is sitting in the same company with Murray, Aaron and Mays in the exclusive 500HR -3000 hit club.
Schilling is a rare exception, his posts seasons have been extraodinary, I love debating these type of things and I love looking back at unique careers.
Take a look at Mike Cuellar or Wilbur Wood's career numbers if you get a chance Tom ...Cuellar was perhaps the greatest over 30's pitcher of all time...he was out of MLB for a long time in his 20's, and Wilbur Wood was sensational over a 5 yr period. Both with very odd careers
No doubt it is relative and that is what I say ALL THE TIME!
an 80's star who hit 500 HR and had 2000 RBI like an Eddie Murray, compare that to today's drug inflated players, Raffy Palmiero couldn't hold Eddie Murray's jock but he has the numbers and he is sitting in the same company with Murray, Aaron and Mays in the exclusive 500HR -3000 hit club.
Schilling is a rare exception, his posts seasons have been extraodinary, I love debating these type of things and I love looking back at unique careers.
Take a look at Mike Cuellar or Wilbur Wood's career numbers if you get a chance Tom ...Cuellar was perhaps the greatest over 30's pitcher of all time...he was out of MLB for a long time in his 20's, and Wilbur Wood was sensational over a 5 yr period. Both with very odd careers
TomBrady#1
EOG Dedicated
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
Wilbur was won 20 4 or 5 times but very marginal otherwise. But even when he won 20 he lost a lot too (24-20 and 20-19)...164-156 all time. That Knuckleball is a weird pitch and when they get hot, look out.
Cuellar was real good for most of his career. 185-130 is darn good. It helped that he was on a good team too. Impressive overall.
I agree on Murray vs Palmerio or Aaron and Mays,. Those guys are baseball Gods and palmeiro is not. Good example, Jman. Not only steriod factor Jman but also the ball has been more juiced too. It distorts a lot of numbers.
Wilbur was won 20 4 or 5 times but very marginal otherwise. But even when he won 20 he lost a lot too (24-20 and 20-19)...164-156 all time. That Knuckleball is a weird pitch and when they get hot, look out.
Cuellar was real good for most of his career. 185-130 is darn good. It helped that he was on a good team too. Impressive overall.
I agree on Murray vs Palmerio or Aaron and Mays,. Those guys are baseball Gods and palmeiro is not. Good example, Jman. Not only steriod factor Jman but also the ball has been more juiced too. It distorts a lot of numbers.
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
I wanted you to see how unique their careers were more than anything...both guys came out of nowhere to be great....look at the years and their ages (if you didn't)
I wanted you to see how unique their careers were more than anything...both guys came out of nowhere to be great....look at the years and their ages (if you didn't)
Dick Tator
EOG Enthusiast
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
Ryan's a homer, what else would you expect him to say?
Ryan's a homer, what else would you expect him to say?
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
Cuellar was 125-60 over a six yr period...he wasn't a full time starter til age 29....he was also out of MLB from age 22-27.
Cuellar was 125-60 over a six yr period...he wasn't a full time starter til age 29....he was also out of MLB from age 22-27.
TomBrady#1
EOG Dedicated
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
Cuellar was darn good in his mid 30's. Why he miss time in his 20's?
Wood started being good in his late 20's into his 30's for like 5 years. Interesting.
Cuellar was darn good in his mid 30's. Why he miss time in his 20's?
Wood started being good in his late 20's into his 30's for like 5 years. Interesting.
TomBrady#1
EOG Dedicated
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
It does not get much better than that. he was on a great staff too. He was probably underrated.
It does not get much better than that. he was on a great staff too. He was probably underrated.
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
And Wood did not start more than 8 games in a season til age 29 where he started 42!
LOL he then started an unheard of 234 games over 5 seasons!
He also won 85 games over 4 yrs.
And was out of baseball by age 36, his entire career was packed in to 5 years basically!
nuts
And Wood did not start more than 8 games in a season til age 29 where he started 42!
LOL he then started an unheard of 234 games over 5 seasons!
He also won 85 games over 4 yrs.
And was out of baseball by age 36, his entire career was packed in to 5 years basically!
nuts
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
He simply could not get back to the majors...finally he was dealt to a different org (Hou) where he turned it around and then Balto where he became Cy Young and one of the games best....credit some to George Bamburger and Orioles defense , especially on the left side- Brooks and Belanger..... Bamburger was O's pitching coach and coach of many 20 GWinners/Cy Young winners and eventually Brewers manager.
He simply could not get back to the majors...finally he was dealt to a different org (Hou) where he turned it around and then Balto where he became Cy Young and one of the games best....credit some to George Bamburger and Orioles defense , especially on the left side- Brooks and Belanger..... Bamburger was O's pitching coach and coach of many 20 GWinners/Cy Young winners and eventually Brewers manager.
TomBrady#1
EOG Dedicated
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
The good old days. Baltimore had a great organization and team. What a pitching staff. Brooks, Blair, Belanger, Palmer, Weaver are all legends. Weaver was a great manager. It is a shame was is happening today.
The good old days. Baltimore had a great organization and team. What a pitching staff. Brooks, Blair, Belanger, Palmer, Weaver are all legends. Weaver was a great manager. It is a shame was is happening today.
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
yes it is,,,,use to it now though.
yes it is,,,,use to it now though.
jacksorbetter
EOG Dedicated
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
The O's are on the right track now. Markakis, Jones and Wieters will be studs for years to come. 2011 is right around the corner.
The O's are on the right track now. Markakis, Jones and Wieters will be studs for years to come. 2011 is right around the corner.
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
Jack Morris is more HOF-worthy than Schilling. Of course Bob Ryan would say this.
Jack Morris is more HOF-worthy than Schilling. Of course Bob Ryan would say this.
phoich4
EOG Addicted
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
Couldn't agree more. There is no way Schill makes the Hall.
Couldn't agree more. There is no way Schill makes the Hall.
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...
I think Schill makes it, but it is not the lock people think. What will hurt him will be the number of relievers in his era that make it. Also, does Pedro Martinez make it? How about Santana?
I think Schill makes it, but it is not the lock people think. What will hurt him will be the number of relievers in his era that make it. Also, does Pedro Martinez make it? How about Santana?