Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

MadCapper

MadCapper

Head <in> Moderation
Still has at least 5 more starts....

20-2, 2.32 era

His team only has 62 wins.

This is not the pitching era of the mid to late 60's.
 
biggamer3

biggamer3

EOG Master
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

Afraid to say better than Carltons 27 in a season
 
R

Road Dawg

2
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

You could certainly argue it, especially for a guy that couldn't stay in the bigs last year.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

EOG Master
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

149Ks 27 BBs

Lets see how he finishes Sept....5 more wins, 25-2 and then we'll talk.

It's all about control with Lee and right now he is lights out, he reminds me a lot of Scott McGregor around 1979 and 1980.
 
Mr. Sanderson

Mr. Sanderson

2
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

MadCapper said:
Still has at least 5 more starts....

20-2, 2.32 era

His team only has 62 wins.

This is not the pitching era of the mid to late 60's.
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i dont know, but my fantasy squad "Ralph Macchio" owes him a big 'thank you.'
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

EOG Master
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

certainly not top 10 all time right now...'top 75' maybe.
 
R

Road Dawg

2
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

Heard somewhere that in the offseason he really worked on his core strength. Would do crunches in his duck blind when duck hunting that he hung a bar between 2 trees to do pull ups while deer hunting.
 
Mr. Sanderson

Mr. Sanderson

2
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

Road Dawg said:
Heard somewhere that in the offseason he really worked on his core strength. Would do crunches in his duck blind when duck hunting that he hung a bar between 2 trees to do pull ups while deer hunting.
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an obvious thing for a regular watcher, (mlb package freak like me) is he attacks with his fastball early in the count and dares you to square it up. if you're facing lee, you know he is coming after the strikezone early in counts. you're not getting ahead in the counts.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

EOG Master
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

exactly...and that sounds so easy but easier said than done....his control is the entire reason he's dominating.
 
A

Apple

Banned
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

Mr. Sanderson said:
an obvious thing for a regular watcher, (mlb package freak like me) is he attacks with his fastball early in the count and dares you to square it up. if you're facing lee, you know he is coming after the strikezone early in counts. you're not getting ahead in the counts.
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I've heard others say the same.. So it must be true, thanks for the scouting report sir. :cheers
 
Mr. Sanderson

Mr. Sanderson

2
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

gynecologist said:
I've heard others say the same.. So it must be true, thanks for the scouting report sir. :cheers
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wasnt trying to be a know-it-all. i just watch all of his starts because he is on my team. plus, he has been so great. i just keep wondering every start: is he going to do it again?? and he always does.

i dont know where he got his confidence, but it seems like thats all he needed.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

EOG Master
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

Mr. Sanderson said:
wasnt trying to be a know-it-all. i just watch all of his starts because he is on my team. plus, he has been so great. i just keep wondering every start: is he going to do it again?? and he always does.

i dont know where he got his confidence, but it seems like thats all he needed.
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one of those yrs, and he will probably not be in this zone next yr...I've seen it too many times.
 
A

Apple

Banned
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

Mr. Sanderson said:
wasnt trying to be a know-it-all. i just watch all of his starts because he is on my team. plus, he has been so great. i just keep wondering every start: is he going to do it again?? and he always does.

i dont know where he got his confidence, but it seems like thats all he needed.
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I didnt interpret you being a know it all.. I actually appreciate detailed information about players and horse etc..


Cliff Lee will probably have 22-23 wins this season and I think that is pretty special in this day and age..
 
Mr. Sanderson

Mr. Sanderson

2
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

Journeyman said:
one of those yrs, and he will probably not be in this zone next yr...I've seen it too many times.
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perhaps. its hard to top this.

but, i think he has it figured out. his arm slot, his velocity differentials, and his approach. i suspect he will be a 15 game + winner for 5 years or more in a row to come.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

EOG Master
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

Mr. Sanderson said:
perhaps. its hard to top this.

but, i think he has it figured out. his arm slot, his velocity differentials, and his approach. i suspect he will be a 15 game + winner for 5 years or more in a row to come.
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5 straight 15+ seasons is saying a lot, especially in this era.

considering his past, I would think he will revert back to the 14-12 guy.

if they had this yr from Lee , last yr, with CC and Carmona, wow :doh1
 
DA MAN

DA MAN

2
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

Road Dawg said:
Heard somewhere that in the offseason he really worked on his core strength. Would do crunches in his duck blind when duck hunting that he hung a bar between 2 trees to do pull ups while deer hunting.
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That is actually true. He is an avid outdoorsman. Now the Cubs need to go after him in the off season and they would have the best starting rotation since the old Mets.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

EOG Master
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

His control is what is making him great...it really is an under the radar phenom season...

Nice call MC.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

EOG Master
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

it sure did...maybe it was just a new conditioning program like RD suggests.
 
MadCapper

MadCapper

Head <in> Moderation
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

J,

What are the top 5 winning % for any single season?

21-2 has to be up there!
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

EOG Master
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

90+% has to be up there! :)

What was Guidry 25-3? off the top that season seems to be the best I remember.

I think Dave McNally had a really good one...Vida.
 
MadCapper

MadCapper

Head <in> Moderation
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

Roy Face was 19-1 as a reliever.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

EOG Master
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

The best records (% wise) , guys I think of

The ones I recall....

The Guidry season, Bob Welch won a lot but I think he lost a lot too, 27 wins .

Koufax had 3-4 great yrs like that

Welch 27-6
Seaver 25-7
Johnson 24-5
Pedro 23-4
Doc 24-4
Carlton 27-10 (30 CGs)
Vida 24-8

Sutcliffe 16-1 in the NL, but overall just 20-6

Steve Stone 25-7, I remember this one well, he threw so many curveballs his arm was never the same, retired shortly after at a young age.
 
MadCapper

MadCapper

Head <in> Moderation
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

Maddux was 19-2

Lee at 21-2 is downright unbelievable.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

EOG Master
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

Then u got guys like Palmer, Tiant and Gibson who had ridiculous ERAs but still lost double digits.

Tiant 21-9 1968 era 1.60
Gibson 22-9 1.12 era
Palmer 23-11 era 2.09 , 21-10 era 2.07
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

EOG Master
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

MadCapper said:
Maddux was 19-2

Lee at 21-2 is downright unbelievable.
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The more i think about this MC, this is insane! And no one is even talking about it.

great call.

Hopefully he finishes this off.
 
MadCapper

MadCapper

Head <in> Moderation
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

J,

Is this comparable to Pedros 1999?
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

EOG Master
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

I don't think quite that impressive...

I think Pedro's best yr was 2000 where his HWR was in the 7's
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

EOG Master
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

I would love to see all things considered what season was considered best ever...or a top ten pitching seasons ever.
 
MadCapper

MadCapper

Head <in> Moderation
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

Carlton's first season with the Phillies was among the greatest a pitcher ever had. He led the league in wins (27), complete games (30), strikeouts (310), and ERA (1.97), despite playing for a team whose final record was 59-97. His 1972 performance earned him the Hickok Belt as the top professional athlete of the year. His having won 46% of his team's victories is a record in modern major league history.
 
5teamparlay

5teamparlay

1
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

Come on cliffy:

<TABLE class=inrunningResultBlock62194482 id=betChartSuccess cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 align=center border=0><TBODY><TR class=titleHeader height=15><TD class=tableHeaderBold>Date</TD><TD class=tableHeaderBold>Team</TD><TD class=tableHeaderBold>Line</TD></TR><TR><TD class=trLine colSpan=3></TD></TR><SCRIPT language=javascript> var tmpBrandBuf = new StringBuffer(); </SCRIPT><TR class=odd><TD class=betInfo>09/12/08</TD><TD class=betInfo>Cleveland(Indians)</TD><TD class=betInfo>-200</TD></TR><TR class=odd><TD class=betInfo>19:05 ET</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

EOG Master
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

MadCapper said:
Carlton's first season with the Phillies was among the greatest a pitcher ever had. He led the league in wins (27), complete games (30), strikeouts (310), and ERA (1.97), despite playing for a team whose final record was 59-97. His 1972 performance earned him the Hickok Belt as the top professional athlete of the year. His having won 46% of his team's victories is a record in modern major league history.
Click to expand...

46% will never be matched.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

EOG Master
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

If Lee could knock that ERA under 2.00 ....there's just something about an ERA under 2.00 that really looks incredible...especially with his gaudy winning pct.

Something like 25-2 with a 1.98 ERA , that would go down forever!
 
MadCapper

MadCapper

Head <in> Moderation
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

Left him in TOO long.

Was very good till the 9th!

<TABLE class=yspwhitebg cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left>C. Lee (W, 22-2)</TD><TD>8.1</TD><TD>11</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>2.36</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 
MadCapper

MadCapper

Head <in> Moderation
Re: Is Cliff Lee having a top 10 pitching season of alltime?

Indians come back to grab a 4-2 lead for Lee.
 
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