Larry Bird On Lebron

Timely Hero

Jacoby Blows
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

Short term memory. Before the last two seasons, Lebron was as dominant in the postseason as you could be with the quality of his teammates.

I'm not picking on you, and I think you know that. I just respect your thoughts on this so I'm gonna poke a whole in this as well...

Your post is just 100% wrong. Every significant statistical category goes down in the playoffs for Lebron when compared to his career averages. He does not excel his game in the playoffs. The fact that Lebron fans are still pointing to a Detroit series 6 years ago says all you need to know about Lebron.
 

IrishTim

EOG Dedicated
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

I swear you people must have horrendous short-term memories. Did you not watch the Miami-Chichago Eastern Conference Finals? Lebron was RIDICULOUSLY clutch that series. In the clinching game, he hit a 3 to tie it with 1 minute left in the 4th quarter and then the go-ahead bucket with 25 seconds left after stealing the ball from D Rose. Then Lebron blocked Korver's potential game-tying three at the buzzer. How could anyone possibly be more clutch than this?

The problem with this whole "clutch" nonsense is that you guys consider people choke artists until they win and then they suddenly obtain this "clutch" status. Guys like Dirk or A-Rod are perfect examples. Supposedly could "never win the big one" until they carry their teams through a post-season and win a championship. And it's the vice versa. Tom Brady was supposedly the most clutch QB of all time and now he's being thrown under the bus for losing the last two SBs. Did he magically lose the "clutch" gene? No of course not, it's pure randomness. He got lucky and won the first 3 coin-flips and unlucky and lost the last 2 coin-flips. None of his 5 Super Bowls were blowouts and in each of the 5, the main determinant of who won and loss was luck, not a talent or coaching differential.

You're main criticism of Lebron seems to be that he didn't win a title in his one year with championship-caliber teammates. One season. I mean is that a joke? They were up 2-1 in the NBA Finals and like a -800 to win it when they lost a couple coin flip games by a basket. It's not like they missed the playoffs. So what happens if Lebron ends up winning 4 titles with Wade and then 2 after he retires or is well past his prime? Is Lebron still not clutch or "great" or whatever other idiotic label sports fans like to attach to players?
 
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

This isn't football Tim. There are 5 guys on the floor at one time, not 12, and there are 11 on a roster - not 54. The NBA title is decided by one player frequently. Dirk had such an incredible playoffs last year that he won a title - no one would debate that.

Every Lebron supporter used the Cavs excuse forever. Last year he was on a roster with another top 5 player in the NBA and a top 5 PF - they lost. How can the best player in the league "easily" according to you guys not win a title when he's surrounded by one great player and another very good player? Lebron is a top 5 player in the NBA, but your just as ignorant and naive as the Lebron haters when you say he's easily the best player in the league. He's simply not. He may be the most gifted - similar to David Robinson in his day - but he's not on "another level" as you try to portray it.

Shaq was the most dominant player in the league - Champion
Kober was the best player in the league - Champion
Duncan was the best player in the league - Champion
Hakeem was the best player in the league - Champion
Jordan was the best player in the league - Champion
You make a good point about only 5 players being on the floor.
 
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

I swear you people must have horrendous short-term memories. Did you not watch the Miami-Chichago Eastern Conference Finals? Lebron was RIDICULOUSLY clutch that series. In the clinching game, he hit a 3 to tie it with 1 minute left in the 4th quarter and then the go-ahead bucket with 25 seconds left after stealing the ball from D Rose. Then Lebron blocked Korver's potential game-tying three at the buzzer. How could anyone possibly be more clutch than this?

The problem with this whole "clutch" nonsense is that you guys consider people choke artists until they win and then they suddenly obtain this "clutch" status. Guys like Dirk or A-Rod are perfect examples. Supposedly could "never win the big one" until they carry their teams through a post-season and win a championship. And it's the vice versa. Tom Brady was supposedly the most clutch QB of all time and now he's being thrown under the bus for losing the last two SBs. Did he magically lose the "clutch" gene? No of course not, it's pure randomness. He got lucky and won the first 3 coin-flips and unlucky and lost the last 2 coin-flips. None of his 5 Super Bowls were blowouts and in each of the 5, the main determinant of who won and loss was luck, not a talent or coaching differential.

You're main criticism of Lebron seems to be that he didn't win a title in his one year with championship-caliber teammates. One season. I mean is that a joke? They were up 2-1 in the NBA Finals and like a -800 to win it when they lost a couple coin flip games by a basket. It's not like they missed the playoffs. So what happens if Lebron ends up winning 4 titles with Wade and then 2 after he retires or is well past his prime? Is Lebron still not clutch or "great" or whatever other idiotic label sports fans like to attach to players?
It's not randomness. You fail to take into consideration important facts that make your data and conclusions insignificant. Brady has problems with pressure as do all QBs. You can't compare Brady's stats against NYG with those of other teams.

Against similar teams, Brady does a lot better than most QBs.
 
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

It's not randomness. You fail to take into consideration important facts which makes your data and conclusions insignificant. Brady has problems with pressure as do all QBs. You can't compare Brady's stats against NYG with those of other teams.

Against similar teams, Brady does a lot better than most QBs.

Unfortunately, it is.

Matter of fact, sports handicapping is ALL about probability and some measure of randomness. Pretty much all of the close SB games were random outcomes.

Folks with your attitude are the main reason the books make money.
 

Timely Hero

Jacoby Blows
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

I swear you people must have horrendous short-term memories. Did you not watch the Miami-Chichago Eastern Conference Finals? Lebron was RIDICULOUSLY clutch that series. In the clinching game, he hit a 3 to tie it with 1 minute left in the 4th quarter and then the go-ahead bucket with 25 seconds left after stealing the ball from D Rose. Then Lebron blocked Korver's potential game-tying three at the buzzer. How could anyone possibly be more clutch than this?

The problem with this whole "clutch" nonsense is that you guys consider people choke artists until they win and then they suddenly obtain this "clutch" status. Guys like Dirk or A-Rod are perfect examples. Supposedly could "never win the big one" until they carry their teams through a post-season and win a championship. And it's the vice versa. Tom Brady was supposedly the most clutch QB of all time and now he's being thrown under the bus for losing the last two SBs. Did he magically lose the "clutch" gene? No of course not, it's pure randomness. He got lucky and won the first 3 coin-flips and unlucky and lost the last 2 coin-flips. None of his 5 Super Bowls were blowouts and in each of the 5, the main determinant of who won and loss was luck, not a talent or coaching differential.

You're main criticism of Lebron seems to be that he didn't win a title in his one year with championship-caliber teammates. One season. I mean is that a joke? They were up 2-1 in the NBA Finals and like a -800 to win it when they lost a couple coin flip games by a basket. It's not like they missed the playoffs. So what happens if Lebron ends up winning 4 titles with Wade and then 2 after he retires or is well past his prime? Is Lebron still not clutch or "great" or whatever other idiotic label sports fans like to attach to players?

I didn't bring up "clutch" and never said he wasn't great. In fact, I've always been quite adamant that Lebron is a top 5 player in the league - no questions asked. I also feel like you didn't read what I wrote... I addressed that if the guy gets ONE, just ONE, and it's this year that I have no problem calling him the best player in the league. I'm not asking for 4, or for 6, or for 7... I'm asking for one. He had a great series vs Chicago, but the basis for your argument was that he got better in the playoffs and that's simply not true. Derrick Rose's stats went down in every single statistical category in the playoffs - that's usually what happens when the playoffs start because teams actually play defense for 48 minutes. That's why I'm not running around talking about how Derrick deserves another MVP and etc. That's what made Jordan so incredible...

I'm all for the ring argument being retarded in the other Big 3 sports, but basketball is different. I think Marino is easily a top 3 QB of ALL-TIME, because I couldn't care less about Superbowls. Barry Bonds might be the best hitter of All-time, who cares if he didn't win a ring? But basketball is much different. It's not that Lebron isn't great, and is some bum, it's simply that he's far from being "the best player in the league by far," because if he was BY FAR he'd have a ring - that's the way basketball works.

Now let's discuss this concept that the Cavs were the worst team ever because they lost Lebron last year. This years roster I believe has 3 new players? They are competitive and a borderline playoff team... Why? Because they added Kyrie Irving, and half their roster isn't out due to injuries like they were last year. Now the Cavs are still 10-16 and far from good but Lebron certainly wasn't worth 45 wins which was what you guys were arguing last year - the rash of injuries, loss of Mo, and I'm sure a broken spirit played into last years results. The fact that you made the comment that "Kobe wouldn't have even taken those Cavs teams to the playoffs" is absurd. Kobe was taking Lakers teams w/o a #2 player to the playoffs in a much harder conference at the time as the 7th and 8th seed. It's this type of "pedestal primping" that Lebron fans annoy others with. Lebron is a great player, but until you win a ring in the NBA you cannot claim to be much better than everyone else.

That list I made could go on and on.

Magic was the best player in the league - Champion

Hell, Wilt was the best player in the league IMO (better than Russell) but he wasn't surrounded with multiple HOF'ers like Russell was. It took Wilt a while to get that ring but he got it.

PS. I specifically avoided any clutch and you still bring it up.
 
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

Unfortunately, it is.

Matter of fact, sports handicapping is ALL about probability and some measure of randomness. Pretty much all of the close SB games were random outcomes.

Folks with your attitude are the main reason the books make money.
Some things are and some things aren't. Brady's stats against the NYG vs. other teams will always be worse long term. When comparing players, you must take the competition along with your supporting cast into consideration.

Guys like you will never make anything substantial. Books aren't afraid of your simplistic math.
 

Timely Hero

Jacoby Blows
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

did i really just read that?

kobe has won titles with a top 10 all time player (shaq) in his prime, and then with gasol/bynum/odom, three all star caliber players.

kobe does not have 1 title when he wasnt on the BY FAR the most talented team in the nba. In fact for three of his titles he was not even the best player on his team (arguably).

He whined and wanted out of LA for the few short years he wasnt lucky enough to be surrounded by all stars until they got Pau gasol for free

kobe has never played with teams as bad as the cavs teams Lebron got to the top of the Eastern conf year after year and even somehow made the NBA championship game with them

:shoot:

Well, Kobe was in the West and at the time that was a much harder conference. As for your Kobe never played on teams as bad as those Cavs teams... talk about short term memory loss. How quickly you guys forget...

[h=2]Per Game[/h] Glossary ? SHARE ? CSV ? PRE ? LINK ? ?

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[TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Kobe Bryant

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

77

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]77[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]40.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]22.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].463[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].344[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].868[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]31.6[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Lamar Odom

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]27[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

56

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]56[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]39.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].468[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].297[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].700[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.9[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Luke Walton

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]26[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

60

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]60[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]33.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].474[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].387[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].745[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.4[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Smush Parker

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]25[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

82

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]80[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]30.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].436[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].365[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].646[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.1[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]5[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Kwame Brown

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]24[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

41

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]27.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].591[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].000[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].440[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.4[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]6[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Maurice Evans

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

76

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]22.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].432[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].361[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].787[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.4[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]7[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Andrew Bynum

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]19[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

82

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]53[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]21.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].558[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].000[/TD]
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[TD="align: right"]2.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].668[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.8[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]8[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Brian Cook

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]26[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

65

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]24[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].453[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].400[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].723[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.9[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]9[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Vladimir Radmanovic

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]26[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

55

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].424[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].339[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].726[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.6[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]10[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Ronny Turiaf

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]24[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

72

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].549[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].000[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].664[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.3[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]11[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Jordan Farmar

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]20[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

72

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].422[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].328[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].711[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.4[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]12[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Sasha Vujacic

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]22[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

73

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].392[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].373[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].878[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.3[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]13[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Shammond Williams

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]31[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

30

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].407[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].400[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].667[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.1[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]14[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Aaron McKie

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]34[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

10

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].647[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.2[/TD]


</tbody>[/TABLE]


Nice roster :LMAO
 

Timely Hero

Jacoby Blows
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

Luke Walton, Smush Parker and Kwame Brown were your 3-4-5 best players.

This year was solid too...
[h=2]Per Game[/h] Glossary ? SHARE ? CSV ? PRE ? LINK ? ?

[TABLE="class: sortable stats_table"]
<colgroup><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col></colgroup> <thead>

<th class="ranker sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting" align="right">Rk</th> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="left">Player</th> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="center">Age</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">G</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">GS</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">MP</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FG</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FGA</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FG%</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">3P</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">3PA</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">3P%</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FT</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FTA</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FT%</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">ORB</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">DRB</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">TRB</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">AST</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">STL</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">BLK</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">TOV</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">PF</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">PTS</th>


</thead> <tbody>

[TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Kobe Bryant

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]27[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

80

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]80[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]41.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]27.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].450[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].347[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].850[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]35.4[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Lamar Odom

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]26[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

80

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]80[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]40.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].481[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].372[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].690[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14.8[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Smush Parker

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]24[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

82

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]82[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]33.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].447[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].366[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].694[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.5[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Chris Mihm

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]26[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

59

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]56[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]26.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].501[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].716[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.2[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]5[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Brian Cook

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]25[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

81

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]46[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]19.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].511[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].429[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].832[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.9[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]6[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Kwame Brown

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

72

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]49[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]27.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].526[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].000[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].545[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.4[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]7[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Devean George

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

71

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]21.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].400[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].313[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].674[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.3[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]8[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Luke Walton

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]25[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

69

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]19.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].412[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].327[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].750[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.0[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]9[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Laron Profit

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

25

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].476[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].167[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].875[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.2[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]10[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Sasha Vujacic

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]21[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

82

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].346[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].343[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].885[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.9[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]11[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Ronny Turiaf

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

23

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].500[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].556[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.0[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]12[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Jim Jackson

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]35[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

13

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].290[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].364[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.7[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]13[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Andrew Bynum

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

46

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].402[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].296[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.6[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]14[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Von Wafer

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]20[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

16

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].158[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].118[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].750[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.3[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]15[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Stanislav Medvedenko

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]26[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

2

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].500[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]16[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Devin Green

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

27

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].214[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].000[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].619[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.9[/TD]


[TD="align: right"]17[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]

Aaron McKie

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]33[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]

14

[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].250[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].000[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].500[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.5[/TD]


</tbody>[/TABLE]


Chris Mihm and Brian Cook mania.
 
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

Some things are and some things aren't. Brady's stats against the NYG vs. other teams will always be worse long term. When comparing players, you must take the competition along with your supporting cast into consideration.

Guys like you will never make anything substantial. Books aren't afraid of your simplistic math.

Yep, you heard it here first, folks. :LMAO
 
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

Dude, next year if you want to go head-on-head on NFL sides, let me know...we'll let Kinger hold the money. We can match your grab-assed notions to hard math.
sure. I'd jump off a cliff if your math was stronger than mine. I'm just saying that there's more to it.
 
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

sure. I'd jump off a cliff if your math was stronger than mine. I'm just saying that there's more to it.

It's all fvcking numbers, dude. You dinosaurs don't get it. In a few more years, the modelers will have flattened all the advantages anyone can get...enjoy your short time in the sun.
 

IrishTim

EOG Dedicated
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

Guys like you will never make anything substantial. Books aren't afraid of your simplistic math.

Steak has said time and again that he would much rather book feel bettors than math guys.

Timely - I know you didn't exactly bring up the clutch argument but it had been put forth earlier in the thread. Do you honestly think there is a chance Lebron retires without one championship? If the threshold to consider him the best player in the league is one title, I think you only need to wait about 5 more months. FTR, I don't believe he is the best "by far". He is certainly the best and this year he is just off the charts unreal, but the past few years Dwight Howard hasn't been too far behind.

It wasn't just that Lebron got the Cavs to be .500 and eek into the playoffs. They had the best record in the NBA and were absolutely dominant. He made Mo Williams and Delonte West look like All Stars. There is no doubt that if you switch Kobe and Lebron on those LAL teams that didn't make the playoffs that they would've won 48 games and been in the playoffs. You put Lebron on any team in the NBA and they are an instant contender. You can't say the same about any other player except Howard.

As to the argument Lebron's stats experience this dramatic decline in the playoff, just look at the numbers. Almost exactly the same.

[TABLE="width: 1064"]
<colgroup><col span="2"><col span="11"><col span="2"><col></colgroup><tbody>     

[TD="colspan: 4"]REGULAR SEASON[/TD]

       

Tm

G

PER

TS%

eFG%

ORB%

DRB%

TRB%

AST%

STL%

BLK%

TOV%

USG%

ORtg

DRtg

WS/48


CLE

[TD="align: right"]79[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.488[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.438[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]27.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]99[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]104[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.078[/TD]


CLE

[TD="align: right"]80[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]25.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.554[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.504[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]32.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]29.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]114[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]103[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.203[/TD]


CLE

[TD="align: right"]79[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.568[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.515[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]32.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]33.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]115[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]104[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.232[/TD]


CLE

[TD="align: right"]78[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]24.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.552[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.507[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]16.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]29.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]31[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]112[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]100[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.206[/TD]


CLE

[TD="align: right"]75[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]29.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.568[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.518[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]37.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]33.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]116[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]104[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.242[/TD]


CLE

[TD="align: right"]81[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]31.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.591[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.53[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]19[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]38[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]33.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]122[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]99[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.318[/TD]


CLE

[TD="align: right"]76[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]31.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.604[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.545[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]41.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]33.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]121[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]102[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.299[/TD]


MIA

[TD="align: right"]79[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]27.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.594[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.541[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]34.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]31.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]116[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]102[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.244[/TD]


 

[TD="align: right"]653[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]27.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.565[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.512[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]34.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]31.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]114.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]102.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.23[/TD]


                
                
     

[TD="colspan: 4"]PLAYOFFS[/TD]

       

Tm

G

PER

TS%

eFG%

ORB%

DRB%

TRB%

AST%

STL%

BLK%

TOV%

USG%

ORtg

DRtg

WS/48


CLE

[TD="align: right"]13[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.557[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.51[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]16.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]33.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]108[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]107[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.135[/TD]


CLE

[TD="align: right"]20[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.516[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.442[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]37.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]29.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]109[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]99[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.2[/TD]


CLE

[TD="align: right"]13[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]24.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.525[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.444[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]19.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]40.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]34.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]107[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]99[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.187[/TD]


CLE

[TD="align: right"]14[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]37.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.618[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.553[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]39.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]36.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]128[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]100[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.399[/TD]


CLE

[TD="align: right"]11[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.607[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.55[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]22.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]36.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]30.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]117[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]103[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.242[/TD]


MIA

[TD="align: right"]21[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.563[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.507[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]27.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]26.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]113[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]102[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.199[/TD]


 

[TD="align: right"]92[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]26.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.561[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.497[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]19.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]34.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]31.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]113.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]101.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.22[/TD]


</tbody>[/TABLE]
 
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

It's all fvcking numbers, dude. You dinosaurs don't get it. In a few more years, the modelers will have flattened all the advantages anyone can get...enjoy your short time in the sun.
You think that you're a better modeler than the books. You're like all the rest of rookies and think that you've found something that hasn't already been in use for the last 10 years. Unique ideas is where it's at. Your thinking is antiquated.
 

Timely Hero

Jacoby Blows
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

Tim those LA teams I posted made the playoffs in the Western Conference. The second roster I posted was 1 shot away from upsetting the Suns in the 1st round in game 7 - when the Suns were possibly the best team in the league. I can't emphasize enough the difference in strength between the two conferences back then. The 8th seed in the East was 10-12 games below .500 while those Laker teams that squeaked into the playoffs were 5-8 games over .500. I'm confident that if you switch the two, the results wouldn't have been that much different. You're basically arguing that Lebron James was "superior" to Kobe Bryant in his prime. That's just not the case, IMO.

I also never said it was a drastic decline, I simply addressed the fact that his numbers are worse. The only thing he improved on was his offensive rebounding prowess ha. Also, basketball isn't all about efficiency ratings as I've addressed over and over again in our discussions. Lebron has better Per #'s than Jordan - Malone did as well for a couple years.

Let's not forget you felt as strongly about him winning it all last year as you do this year. I think the Heat have taken a step back this year from where they were in the playoffs last year.
 
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

Steak has said time and again that he would much rather book feel bettors than math guys.

Timely - I know you didn't exactly bring up the clutch argument but it had been put forth earlier in the thread. Do you honestly think there is a chance Lebron retires without one championship? If the threshold to consider him the best player in the league is one title, I think you only need to wait about 5 more months. FTR, I don't believe he is the best "by far". He is certainly the best and this year he is just off the charts unreal, but the past few years Dwight Howard hasn't been too far behind.

It wasn't just that Lebron got the Cavs to be .500 and eek into the playoffs. They had the best record in the NBA and were absolutely dominant. He made Mo Williams and Delonte West look like All Stars. There is no doubt that if you switch Kobe and Lebron on those LAL teams that didn't make the playoffs that they would've won 48 games and been in the playoffs. You put Lebron on any team in the NBA and they are an instant contender. You can't say the same about any other player except Howard.

As to the argument Lebron's stats experience this dramatic decline in the playoff, just look at the numbers. Almost exactly the same.

[TABLE="width: 1064"]
<tbody>     

[TD="colspan: 4"]REGULAR SEASON[/TD]

       

Tm

G

PER

TS%

eFG%

ORB%

DRB%

TRB%

AST%

STL%

BLK%

TOV%

USG%

ORtg

DRtg

WS/48


CLE

[TD="align: right"]79[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.488[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.438[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]27.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]99[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]104[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.078[/TD]


CLE

[TD="align: right"]80[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]25.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.554[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.504[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]32.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]29.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]114[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]103[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.203[/TD]


CLE

[TD="align: right"]79[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.568[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.515[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]32.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]33.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]115[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]104[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.232[/TD]


CLE

[TD="align: right"]78[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]24.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.552[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.507[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]16.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]29.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]31[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]112[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]100[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.206[/TD]


CLE

[TD="align: right"]75[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]29.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.568[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.518[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]37.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]33.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]116[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]104[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.242[/TD]


CLE

[TD="align: right"]81[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]31.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.591[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.53[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]19[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]38[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]33.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]122[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]99[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.318[/TD]


CLE

[TD="align: right"]76[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]31.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.604[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.545[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]41.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]33.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]121[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]102[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.299[/TD]


MIA

[TD="align: right"]79[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]27.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.594[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.541[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]34.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]31.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]116[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]102[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.244[/TD]


 

[TD="align: right"]653[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]27.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.565[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.512[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]34.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]31.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]114.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]102.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.23[/TD]


                
                
     

[TD="colspan: 4"]PLAYOFFS[/TD]

       

Tm

G

PER

TS%

eFG%

ORB%

DRB%

TRB%

AST%

STL%

BLK%

TOV%

USG%

ORtg

DRtg

WS/48


CLE

[TD="align: right"]13[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.557[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.51[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]16.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]33.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]108[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]107[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.135[/TD]


CLE

[TD="align: right"]20[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.516[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.442[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]37.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]29.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]109[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]99[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.2[/TD]


CLE

[TD="align: right"]13[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]24.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.525[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.444[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]19.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]40.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]34.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]107[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]99[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.187[/TD]


CLE

[TD="align: right"]14[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]37.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.618[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.553[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]39.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]36.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]128[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]100[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.399[/TD]


CLE

[TD="align: right"]11[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.607[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.55[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]22.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]36.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]30.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]117[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]103[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.242[/TD]


MIA

[TD="align: right"]21[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.563[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.507[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]27.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]26.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]113[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]102[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.199[/TD]


 

[TD="align: right"]92[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]26.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.561[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.497[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]19.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]34.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]31.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]113.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]101.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.22[/TD]


</tbody>[/TABLE]
It's not feel betting. It's a combination. Ask RAS or BW. I've told you this a million times, experience will give you a proper indication of which way a line will move. Without knowing that, you're flipping coins.
 
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

LeBron looked scared against Dallas. There were times when he was saying, "Don't throw the ball to me."
 
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

You think that you're a better modeler than the books. You're like all the rest of rookies and think that you've found something that hasn't already been in use for the last 10 years. Unique ideas is where it's at. Your thinking is antiquated.

The syndicates are all going math, RAS has gone math...OK, I've spent enough time on you. :scooter
 

IrishTim

EOG Dedicated
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

Timely, drawing a distinction between a 50% and 51% eFG and saying the 50% in the playoffs is worse is just being asinine. He statistically shoots about the same, rebounds better, plays better defense, and has the same number of assists in the playoffs as do his MVP regular season campaigns.

It's not feel betting. It's a combination. Ask RAS or BW. I've told you this a million times, experience will give you a proper indication of which way a line will move. Without knowing that, you're flipping coins.

You can repeat yourself a million times, but it doesn't make it true. The guys who have betting sports for 30 years are probably statistically worse predicting line moves than a monkey picking from two bananas because they adhere to idiotic tenets like "bet faves early and dogs late" and "public money always comes in on Yankees, Lakers, etc thus moving the line in their favor".
 

Timely Hero

Jacoby Blows
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

Timely, drawing a distinction between a 50% and 51% eFG and saying the 50% in the playoffs is worse is just being asinine. He statistically shoots about the same, rebounds better, plays better defense, and has the same number of assists in the playoffs as do his MVP regular season campaigns.



You can repeat yourself a million times, but it doesn't make it true. The guys who have betting sports for 30 years are probably statistically worse predicting line moves than a monkey picking from two bananas because they adhere to idiotic tenets like "bet faves early and dogs late" and "public money always comes in on Yankees, Lakers, etc thus moving the line in their favor".

Fair enough. I will say his per is slightly skewed at 27 because of the 18 he put up as a Rookie. Without looking at the numbers, I'd guess his per was closer to that 23 in the 2nd half of the season. Regardless, it's a fair point.
 

IrishTim

EOG Dedicated
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

Fair enough. I will say his per is slightly skewed at 27 because of the 18 he put up as a Rookie. Without looking at the numbers, I'd guess his per was closer to that 23 in the 2nd half of the season. Regardless, it's a fair point.

Your criticism of the efficiency ratings has some validity and your attacks are more advanced than the average Lebron hater which is why it seemed like I wasn't addressing your points because I was talking to both you and all the other "LEBRON IS A CHOKE ARTIST!!111" guys in the thread. We both know all the hate that is spewed on him isn't because his his stats are maybe 1% worse in the postseason than the regular season.

When you point out his postseason performance is statistically identical to his regular season performance, the argument then becomes "well yeah he plays well in the playoffs for 3 quarters and then hides in the corner". Then you point out the playoff games where he absolutely dominates the 4th quarter like the clinching games of different playoff series including last year and it's "well maybe he does it in the Eastern Conference Finals but the NBA Finals is too big a moment for him". Just retarded.

Regardless, Lebron is 27 years old and has plenty of basketball left. I would set the OV/UN at 3 rings before he's all said and done.
 

Timely Hero

Jacoby Blows
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

I'm not picking on you, and I think you know that. I just respect your thoughts on this so I'm gonna poke a whole in this as well...

Your post is just 100% wrong. Every significant statistical category goes down in the playoffs for Lebron when compared to his career averages. He does not excel his game in the playoffs. The fact that Lebron fans are still pointing to a Detroit series 6 years ago says all you need to know about Lebron.

This comment by me was 100% wrong. Shitty.

As for NBA efficiency ratings, I certainly do use the statistic myself and it clearly is an asset. My beef with those ratings is that they exaggerate steals and blocks as being defensive indicators (Ricky Rubio leads the NBA in steals this year by a lot, and he might be one of the 3 worst defensive PG's in the NBA), they tend to be skewed towards size and pass-first perimeter players. That doesn't mean they aren't a valuable statistic, it just means I'm sick of this overrated sense that PER and John Hollinger have found a value system to rate the players and it's never wrong.

Until the NBA, and statisticians, find a way to quantify a players defensive value all "overall" player ratings will be incomplete. The best way to evaluate defensive players is with weak positional ratings, which varie too much from year to year. It works in obvious situations (like Howard being on a team that consists of sub-par defenders everywhere else, but the team as a whole ranked in the top 5 in the NBA in defense), but it doesn't work wel for perimeter players. Systems are so important in the NBA.
 
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

Your criticism of the efficiency ratings has some validity and your attacks are more advanced than the average Lebron hater which is why it seemed like I wasn't addressing your points because I was talking to both you and all the other "LEBRON IS A CHOKE ARTIST!!111" guys in the thread. We both know all the hate that is spewed on him isn't because his his stats are maybe 1% worse in the postseason than the regular season.

When you point out his postseason performance is statistically identical to his regular season performance, the argument then becomes "well yeah he plays well in the playoffs for 3 quarters and then hides in the corner". Then you point out the playoff games where he absolutely dominates the 4th quarter like the clinching games of different playoff series including last year and it's "well maybe he does it in the Eastern Conference Finals but the NBA Finals is too big a moment for him". Just retarded.

Regardless, Lebron is 27 years old and has plenty of basketball left. I would set the OV/UN at 3 rings before he's all said and done.
Name one of the greats that didn't want the ball in the 4th quarter of a NBA finals game? LeBron is a good basketball player but not in the top 20 of all time.
 

IrishTim

EOG Dedicated
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

Would be pretty tough for someone who just turned 27 years old to make a list of top 10 all time greats now wouldn't it, raiders? Why do you insist on being so obtuse? At least Timely makes logical arguments when he doesn't agree. You just post the most random and worthless shit.
 

Viejo Dinosaur

EOG Master
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

Would be pretty tough for someone who just turned 27 years old to make a list of top 10 all time greats now wouldn't it, raiders? Why do you insist on being so obtuse? At least Timely makes logical arguments when he doesn't agree. You just post the most random and worthless shit.

OBTUSE....last time I heard that was in Shawshank Redemption....:btj:
 

High Times

EOG Master
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

Would be pretty tough for someone who just turned 27 years old to make a list of top 10 all time greats now wouldn't it, raiders? Why do you insist on being so obtuse? At least Timely makes logical arguments when he doesn't agree. You just post the most random and worthless shit.


Except for Jordan all those players were considered one of the greatest players of all time before they turned 27. It usually doesn't take until a player is 27 to know they are all time greats.

:houra


And even most knew Jordan was a top 10 great although he had not proved it yet. But he did prove it big time!


Just another statement from you where you didn't think at all about what you posted.
 

IrishTim

EOG Dedicated
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

MJ also had ZERO championships when he was 26 years old. So what then is the standard for greatness if not championships? You guys have moving targets depending on who you're talking about.
 

cassiusclay

EOG Master
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

Please. Lebron and at least 5 other guys in the league right now are better than Bird ever was. No knock on Bird, he;s a first class HOF'er without any doubt.

The game is much better now though. A guy like Bird would be lost in the age of athletic wings that can shoot from range and also dunk over 6'5 guys like it's nothing.

Lebron may be the most gifted athlete the NBA has ever seen. The guy can't be stopped, and hopefully after he wins the title this year people give it a rest with the damn ring argument.

any more i am convinced you can't really compare old players with new ones. different times, different game. it's like comparing nicklaus and tiger woods.

i liked the toughness shown by players in the past, bird was as tough as they get
 

cassiusclay

EOG Master
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

lebron is a talented player no doubt

he has to win a championship 4 sho

this year is his best chance, short season will only help
 

carolinakid

Banned
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

Bottom line most big name guys now play for fame and money............old school guys played for the love of the game.............
 

High Times

EOG Master
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

You are still young Irish Tim....I have seen may post season performances....many better than Lebron....until he gets the job done, it is what it is.....

Jordan
Duncan
Kareem
Bird
Magic
Oscar
West
Frazier
Kobe
Russell
Wilt
Dr. J


The huge difference between these greats and a lot of others and Lebron...

You could not take the ball out of their hands in the final minute of a playoff game or even a regular season game. These guys demanded the ball when the game is/was on the line.

Lebron flat out didn't want the ball a number of times when the game was on the line. Last year nobody on the heat wanted to take the final shot.

To me that is the ultimate decider when it comes to Lebrons greatness. I have never seen an all time great that DIDN'T want that last shot.

Lebron could never qualify for all time great status because of this obvious short coming.

The dude just doesn't have it ....
 

Patrick McIrish

OCCams raZOR
Re: Larry Bird On Lebron

MJ also had ZERO championships when he was 26 years old. So what then is the standard for greatness if not championships?


One of the standards for me is not taking a midnight train out of town in search of winning a championship. That's the biggest (although not singular) difference between LeBrick and MJ.

In short, MJ was older when he won his first ring because he stuck it out with the players they sent him, LeBron hauled ass to a stacked roster trying to get hardware.

And failed even doing that way.

Comparing MJ to LeBrick is like comparing Brady to Railbird.

Carry on.
 
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