Who was the better pitcher?

[MadCapper]

Well the last poll was won in a landslide by Tony Gwynn...

This poll features two of the best pitchers in the late 60's 70's....

Who was the better one?

 

[Experto]

Steve Carlton

 

[MadCapper]

<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=tablesm>Tom Seaver
Born: November 17, 1944
Bats: Right
Throws: Right
Inducted into Hall of Fame in 1992
Batting statistics </TD><TD class=tablesm align=right width=400><FORM action=lookup method=get>Search player by last name:
<INPUT class=tablesm name=search> </FORM>Return to History Index</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR class=stathead bgColor=#184984><TD colSpan=16>Career Statistics</TD></TR><TR class=colhead align=right><TD align=left width="7%">YEAR</TD><TD align=left width="8%">TEAM</TD><TD align=left width="6%">LG</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">G</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">GS</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">CG</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">SH</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">IP</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">H</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">ER</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">BB</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">SO</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">W</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">L</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">SV</TD><TD class=listingsHead>ERA</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1967</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> NY</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>35</TD><TD class=listings>34</TD><TD class=listings>18</TD><TD class=listings>2</TD><TD class=listings>251.0</TD><TD class=listings>224</TD><TD class=listings>77</TD><TD class=listings>78</TD><TD class=listings>170</TD><TD class=listings>16</TD><TD class=listings>13</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>2.76</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1968</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> NY</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>36</TD><TD class=listings>35</TD><TD class=listings>14</TD><TD class=listings>5</TD><TD class=listings>277.2</TD><TD class=listings>224</TD><TD class=listings>68</TD><TD class=listings>48</TD><TD class=listings>205</TD><TD class=listings>16</TD><TD class=listings>12</TD><TD class=listings>1</TD><TD class=listings>2.20</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1969</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> NY</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>36</TD><TD class=listings>35</TD><TD class=listings>18</TD><TD class=listings>5</TD><TD class=listings>273.1</TD><TD class=listings>202</TD><TD class=listings>67</TD><TD class=listings>82</TD><TD class=listings>208</TD><TD class=listings>25</TD><TD class=listings>7</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>2.21</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1970</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> NY</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>37</TD><TD class=listings>36</TD><TD class=listings>19</TD><TD class=listings>2</TD><TD class=listings>290.2</TD><TD class=listings>230</TD><TD class=listings>91</TD><TD class=listings>83</TD><TD class=listings>283</TD><TD class=listings>18</TD><TD class=listings>12</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>2.82</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1971</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> NY</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>36</TD><TD class=listings>35</TD><TD class=listings>21</TD><TD class=listings>4</TD><TD class=listings>286.1</TD><TD class=listings>210</TD><TD class=listings>56</TD><TD class=listings>61</TD><TD class=listings>289</TD><TD class=listings>20</TD><TD class=listings>10</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>1.76</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1972</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> NY</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>35</TD><TD class=listings>35</TD><TD class=listings>13</TD><TD class=listings>3</TD><TD class=listings>262.0</TD><TD class=listings>215</TD><TD class=listings>85</TD><TD class=listings>77</TD><TD class=listings>249</TD><TD class=listings>21</TD><TD class=listings>12</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>2.92</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1973</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> NY</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>36</TD><TD class=listings>36</TD><TD class=listings>18</TD><TD class=listings>3</TD><TD class=listings>290.0</TD><TD class=listings>219</TD><TD class=listings>67</TD><TD class=listings>64</TD><TD class=listings>251</TD><TD class=listings>19</TD><TD class=listings>10</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>2.08</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1974</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> NY</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>32</TD><TD class=listings>32</TD><TD class=listings>12</TD><TD class=listings>5</TD><TD class=listings>236.0</TD><TD class=listings>199</TD><TD class=listings>84</TD><TD class=listings>75</TD><TD class=listings>201</TD><TD class=listings>11</TD><TD class=listings>11</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>3.20</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1975</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> NY</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>36</TD><TD class=listings>36</TD><TD class=listings>15</TD><TD class=listings>5</TD><TD class=listings>280.1</TD><TD class=listings>217</TD><TD class=listings>74</TD><TD class=listings>88</TD><TD class=listings>243</TD><TD class=listings>22</TD><TD class=listings>9</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>2.38</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1976</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> NY</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>35</TD><TD class=listings>34</TD><TD class=listings>13</TD><TD class=listings>5</TD><TD class=listings>271.0</TD><TD class=listings>211</TD><TD class=listings>78</TD><TD class=listings>77</TD><TD class=listings>235</TD><TD class=listings>14</TD><TD class=listings>11</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>2.59</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1977</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Cin/NY</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>-</TD><TD class=listings>33</TD><TD class=listings>33</TD><TD class=listings>19</TD><TD class=listings>7</TD><TD class=listings>261.1</TD><TD class=listings>199</TD><TD class=listings>75</TD><TD class=listings>66</TD><TD class=listings>196</TD><TD class=listings>21</TD><TD class=listings>6</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>2.58</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1978</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Cin</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>36</TD><TD class=listings>36</TD><TD class=listings>8</TD><TD class=listings>1</TD><TD class=listings>259.2</TD><TD class=listings>218</TD><TD class=listings>83</TD><TD class=listings>89</TD><TD class=listings>226</TD><TD class=listings>16</TD><TD class=listings>14</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>2.88</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1979</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Cin</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>32</TD><TD class=listings>32</TD><TD class=listings>9</TD><TD class=listings>5</TD><TD class=listings>215.0</TD><TD class=listings>187</TD><TD class=listings>75</TD><TD class=listings>61</TD><TD class=listings>131</TD><TD class=listings>16</TD><TD class=listings>6</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>3.14</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1980</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Cin</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>26</TD><TD class=listings>26</TD><TD class=listings>5</TD><TD class=listings>1</TD><TD class=listings>168.0</TD><TD class=listings>140</TD><TD class=listings>68</TD><TD class=listings>59</TD><TD class=listings>101</TD><TD class=listings>10</TD><TD class=listings>8</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>3.64</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1981</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Cin</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>23</TD><TD class=listings>23</TD><TD class=listings>6</TD><TD class=listings>1</TD><TD class=listings>166.1</TD><TD class=listings>120</TD><TD class=listings>47</TD><TD class=listings>66</TD><TD class=listings>87</TD><TD class=listings>14</TD><TD class=listings>2</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>2.54</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1982</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Cin</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>21</TD><TD class=listings>21</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>111.1</TD><TD class=listings>136</TD><TD class=listings>68</TD><TD class=listings>44</TD><TD class=listings>62</TD><TD class=listings>5</TD><TD class=listings>13</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>5.50</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1983</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> NY</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>34</TD><TD class=listings>34</TD><TD class=listings>5</TD><TD class=listings>2</TD><TD class=listings>231.0</TD><TD class=listings>201</TD><TD class=listings>91</TD><TD class=listings>86</TD><TD class=listings>135</TD><TD class=listings>9</TD><TD class=listings>14</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>3.55</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1984</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Chi</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>A</TD><TD class=listings>34</TD><TD class=listings>33</TD><TD class=listings>10</TD><TD class=listings>4</TD><TD class=listings>236.2</TD><TD class=listings>216</TD><TD class=listings>104</TD><TD class=listings>61</TD><TD class=listings>131</TD><TD class=listings>15</TD><TD class=listings>11</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>3.96</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1985</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Chi</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>A</TD><TD class=listings>35</TD><TD class=listings>33</TD><TD class=listings>6</TD><TD class=listings>1</TD><TD class=listings>238.2</TD><TD class=listings>223</TD><TD class=listings>84</TD><TD class=listings>69</TD><TD class=listings>134</TD><TD class=listings>16</TD><TD class=listings>11</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>3.17</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1986</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Bos/Chi</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>-</TD><TD class=listings>28</TD><TD class=listings>28</TD><TD class=listings>2</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>176.1</TD><TD class=listings>180</TD><TD class=listings>79</TD><TD class=listings>56</TD><TD class=listings>103</TD><TD class=listings>7</TD><TD class=listings>13</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>4.03</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#d2d2cd><TD align=left width="7%" bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=3></TD><TD width="5%">G</TD><TD width="5%">GS</TD><TD width="5%">CG</TD><TD width="5%">SH</TD><TD width="5%">IP</TD><TD width="5%">H</TD><TD width="5%">ER</TD><TD width="5%">BB</TD><TD width="5%">SO</TD><TD width="5%">W</TD><TD width="5%">L</TD><TD width="5%">SV</TD><TD width="6%">ERA</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=16></TD></TR><!-- average = 3--><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=3>20 Seasons</TD><TD class=listings>656</TD><TD class=listings>647</TD><TD class=listings>231</TD><TD class=listings>61</TD><TD class=listings>4782.2</TD><TD class=listings>3971</TD><TD class=listings>1521</TD><TD class=listings>1390</TD><TD class=listings>3640</TD><TD class=listings>311</TD><TD class=listings>205</TD><TD class=listings>1</TD><TD class=listings>2.86</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=16></TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=3>Career Rankings</TD><TD class=listingsHead>101 </TD><TD class=listingsHead>13 </TD><TD class=listingsHead>99 </TD><TD class=listingsHead>7 </TD><TD class=listingsHead>16 </TD><TD class=listingsHead>38 </TD><TD class=listingsHead>31 </TD><TD class=listingsHead>17 </TD><TD class=listingsHead>6 </TD><TD class=listingsHead>18 </TD><TD class=listingsHead>39 </TD><TD class=listingsHead>--</TD><TD class=listingsHead>146</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

[MadCapper]

<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=tablesm>Steve Carlton
Born: December 22, 1944
Bats: Left
Throws: Left
Inducted into Hall of Fame in 1994
Batting statistics </TD><TD class=tablesm align=right width=400><FORM action=lookup method=get>Search player by last name:
<INPUT class=tablesm name=search> </FORM>Return to History Index</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR class=stathead bgColor=#184984><TD colSpan=16>Career Statistics</TD></TR><TR class=colhead align=right><TD align=left width="7%">YEAR</TD><TD align=left width="8%">TEAM</TD><TD align=left width="6%">LG</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">G</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">GS</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">CG</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">SH</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">IP</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">H</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">ER</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">BB</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">SO</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">W</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">L</TD><TD class=listingsHead width="5%">SV</TD><TD class=listingsHead>ERA</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1965</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> StL</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>15</TD><TD class=listings>2</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>25.0</TD><TD class=listings>27</TD><TD class=listings>7</TD><TD class=listings>8</TD><TD class=listings>21</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>2.52</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1966</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> StL</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>9</TD><TD class=listings>9</TD><TD class=listings>2</TD><TD class=listings>1</TD><TD class=listings>52.0</TD><TD class=listings>56</TD><TD class=listings>18</TD><TD class=listings>18</TD><TD class=listings>25</TD><TD class=listings>3</TD><TD class=listings>3</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>3.12</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1967</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> StL</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>30</TD><TD class=listings>28</TD><TD class=listings>11</TD><TD class=listings>2</TD><TD class=listings>193.0</TD><TD class=listings>173</TD><TD class=listings>64</TD><TD class=listings>62</TD><TD class=listings>168</TD><TD class=listings>14</TD><TD class=listings>9</TD><TD class=listings>1</TD><TD class=listings>2.98</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1968</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> StL</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>34</TD><TD class=listings>33</TD><TD class=listings>10</TD><TD class=listings>5</TD><TD class=listings>231.2</TD><TD class=listings>214</TD><TD class=listings>77</TD><TD class=listings>61</TD><TD class=listings>162</TD><TD class=listings>13</TD><TD class=listings>11</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>2.99</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1969</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> StL</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>31</TD><TD class=listings>31</TD><TD class=listings>12</TD><TD class=listings>2</TD><TD class=listings>236.1</TD><TD class=listings>185</TD><TD class=listings>57</TD><TD class=listings>93</TD><TD class=listings>210</TD><TD class=listings>17</TD><TD class=listings>11</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>2.17</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1970</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> StL</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>34</TD><TD class=listings>33</TD><TD class=listings>13</TD><TD class=listings>2</TD><TD class=listings>253.2</TD><TD class=listings>239</TD><TD class=listings>105</TD><TD class=listings>109</TD><TD class=listings>193</TD><TD class=listings>10</TD><TD class=listings>19</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>3.73</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1971</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> StL</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>37</TD><TD class=listings>36</TD><TD class=listings>18</TD><TD class=listings>4</TD><TD class=listings>273.1</TD><TD class=listings>275</TD><TD class=listings>108</TD><TD class=listings>98</TD><TD class=listings>172</TD><TD class=listings>20</TD><TD class=listings>9</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>3.56</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1972</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Phi</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>41</TD><TD class=listings>41</TD><TD class=listings>30</TD><TD class=listings>8</TD><TD class=listings>346.1</TD><TD class=listings>257</TD><TD class=listings>76</TD><TD class=listings>87</TD><TD class=listings>310</TD><TD class=listings>27</TD><TD class=listings>10</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>1.98</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1973</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Phi</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>40</TD><TD class=listings>40</TD><TD class=listings>18</TD><TD class=listings>3</TD><TD class=listings>293.1</TD><TD class=listings>293</TD><TD class=listings>127</TD><TD class=listings>113</TD><TD class=listings>223</TD><TD class=listings>13</TD><TD class=listings>20</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>3.90</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1974</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Phi</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>39</TD><TD class=listings>39</TD><TD class=listings>17</TD><TD class=listings>1</TD><TD class=listings>291.0</TD><TD class=listings>249</TD><TD class=listings>104</TD><TD class=listings>136</TD><TD class=listings>240</TD><TD class=listings>16</TD><TD class=listings>13</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>3.22</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1975</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Phi</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>37</TD><TD class=listings>37</TD><TD class=listings>14</TD><TD class=listings>3</TD><TD class=listings>255.1</TD><TD class=listings>217</TD><TD class=listings>101</TD><TD class=listings>104</TD><TD class=listings>192</TD><TD class=listings>15</TD><TD class=listings>14</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>3.56</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1976</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Phi</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>35</TD><TD class=listings>35</TD><TD class=listings>13</TD><TD class=listings>2</TD><TD class=listings>252.2</TD><TD class=listings>224</TD><TD class=listings>88</TD><TD class=listings>72</TD><TD class=listings>195</TD><TD class=listings>20</TD><TD class=listings>7</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>3.14</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1977</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Phi</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>36</TD><TD class=listings>36</TD><TD class=listings>17</TD><TD class=listings>2</TD><TD class=listings>283.0</TD><TD class=listings>229</TD><TD class=listings>83</TD><TD class=listings>89</TD><TD class=listings>198</TD><TD class=listings>23</TD><TD class=listings>10</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>2.64</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1978</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Phi</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>34</TD><TD class=listings>34</TD><TD class=listings>12</TD><TD class=listings>3</TD><TD class=listings>247.1</TD><TD class=listings>228</TD><TD class=listings>78</TD><TD class=listings>63</TD><TD class=listings>161</TD><TD class=listings>16</TD><TD class=listings>13</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>2.84</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1979</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Phi</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>35</TD><TD class=listings>35</TD><TD class=listings>13</TD><TD class=listings>4</TD><TD class=listings>251.0</TD><TD class=listings>202</TD><TD class=listings>101</TD><TD class=listings>89</TD><TD class=listings>213</TD><TD class=listings>18</TD><TD class=listings>11</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>3.62</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1980</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Phi</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>38</TD><TD class=listings>38</TD><TD class=listings>13</TD><TD class=listings>3</TD><TD class=listings>304.0</TD><TD class=listings>243</TD><TD class=listings>79</TD><TD class=listings>90</TD><TD class=listings>286</TD><TD class=listings>24</TD><TD class=listings>9</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>2.34</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1981</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Phi</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>24</TD><TD class=listings>24</TD><TD class=listings>10</TD><TD class=listings>1</TD><TD class=listings>190.0</TD><TD class=listings>152</TD><TD class=listings>51</TD><TD class=listings>62</TD><TD class=listings>179</TD><TD class=listings>13</TD><TD class=listings>4</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>2.42</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1982</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Phi</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>38</TD><TD class=listings>38</TD><TD class=listings>19</TD><TD class=listings>6</TD><TD class=listings>295.2</TD><TD class=listings>253</TD><TD class=listings>102</TD><TD class=listings>86</TD><TD class=listings>286</TD><TD class=listings>23</TD><TD class=listings>11</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>3.11</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1983</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Phi</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>37</TD><TD class=listings>37</TD><TD class=listings>8</TD><TD class=listings>3</TD><TD class=listings>283.2</TD><TD class=listings>277</TD><TD class=listings>98</TD><TD class=listings>84</TD><TD class=listings>275</TD><TD class=listings>15</TD><TD class=listings>16</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>3.11</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1984</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Phi</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>33</TD><TD class=listings>33</TD><TD class=listings>1</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>229.0</TD><TD class=listings>214</TD><TD class=listings>91</TD><TD class=listings>79</TD><TD class=listings>163</TD><TD class=listings>13</TD><TD class=listings>7</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>3.58</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1985</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Phi</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>N</TD><TD class=listings>16</TD><TD class=listings>16</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>92.0</TD><TD class=listings>84</TD><TD class=listings>34</TD><TD class=listings>53</TD><TD class=listings>48</TD><TD class=listings>1</TD><TD class=listings>8</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>3.33</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1986</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Chi/Phi/SF</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>-</TD><TD class=listings>32</TD><TD class=listings>32</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>176.1</TD><TD class=listings>196</TD><TD class=listings>100</TD><TD class=listings>86</TD><TD class=listings>120</TD><TD class=listings>9</TD><TD class=listings>14</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>5.10</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1987</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Cle/Min</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>-</TD><TD class=listings>32</TD><TD class=listings>21</TD><TD class=listings>3</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>152.0</TD><TD class=listings>165</TD><TD class=listings>97</TD><TD class=listings>86</TD><TD class=listings>91</TD><TD class=listings>6</TD><TD class=listings>14</TD><TD class=listings>1</TD><TD class=listings>5.74</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>1988</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff> Min</TD><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff>A</TD><TD class=listings>4</TD><TD class=listings>1</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>9.2</TD><TD class=listings>20</TD><TD class=listings>18</TD><TD class=listings>5</TD><TD class=listings>5</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>1</TD><TD class=listings>0</TD><TD class=listings>16.76</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#d2d2cd><TD align=left width="7%" bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=3></TD><TD width="5%">G</TD><TD width="5%">GS</TD><TD width="5%">CG</TD><TD width="5%">SH</TD><TD width="5%">IP</TD><TD width="5%">H</TD><TD width="5%">ER</TD><TD width="5%">BB</TD><TD width="5%">SO</TD><TD width="5%">W</TD><TD width="5%">L</TD><TD width="5%">SV</TD><TD width="6%">ERA</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=16></TD></TR><!-- average = 3--><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=3>24 Seasons</TD><TD class=listings>741</TD><TD class=listings>709</TD><TD class=listings>254</TD><TD class=listings>55</TD><TD class=listings>5217.1</TD><TD class=listings>4672</TD><TD class=listings>1864</TD><TD class=listings>1833</TD><TD class=listings>4136</TD><TD class=listings>329</TD><TD class=listings>244</TD><TD class=listings>2</TD><TD class=listings>3.21</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=16></TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#f2f2ed><TD class=listings align=left bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=3>Career Rankings</TD><TD class=listingsHead>50 </TD><TD class=listingsHead>5 </TD><TD class=listingsHead>75 </TD><TD class=listingsHead>14 </TD><TD class=listingsHead>9 </TD><TD class=listingsHead>12 </TD><TD class=listingsHead>7 </TD><TD class=listingsHead>2 </TD><TD class=listingsHead>4 </TD><TD class=listingsHead>10 </TD><TD class=listingsHead>14 </TD><TD class=listingsHead>--</TD><TD class=listingsHead>300</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

[roach23]

The fact that Carlton one year had 20 some wins on a team that only won 50 some games is hard to ignore.

 

[MadCapper]

Seaver had alot less walks and a much better ERA.

He also lost 40 less games.

 

[roach23]

Seaver had alot less walks and a much better ERA.

He also lost 40 less games.

He pitched in 100 or so less games.

 

[MadCapper]

He pitched in 100 or so less games.

Which explains the 18 less wins.

Seavers W-L ratio was much better than Carltons.

 

[UWinSports]

This guy was better than both of them

 

[UWinSports]

and this guy was the best Mets baseball player ever and a great role model.

 

[NightJailer]

This guy was better than both of them

:+thumbs-2 :cheers

 

[MadCapper]

Way to HIJACK a thread, Richkas!

 

[BGS 9.5]

The fact that Carlton one year had 20 some wins on a team that only won 50 some games is hard to ignore.

Took the words right from my mouth Roach, that was a single handed great year by him considering the supporting cast of hitters

 

[UWinSports]

The fact that Carlton one year had 20 some wins on a team that only won 50 some games is hard to ignore.

That is strong.

 

[wizofescazu]

TUFF..Ask McCarver..anyway I hand the ball to Carlton..he was overpowering and at the same time painted the plate..His stature on the mound was also a factor..

 

[MadCapper]

5-3 now.

Alot closer than the previous poll.

 

[Clip Joint]

Seavers W-L ratio was much better than Carltons.

W/L for a starting pitcher are very overrated. Good bullpen's and offensive support are MAJOR factors on whether or not a starter gets a W or L.

 

[ZZ CREAM]

I voted for Lefty because he was scary awesome up till the end. I don't know about numbers but I know Carlton was $2.00 + in the 70's when that just didn't happen much.

 

[UWinSports]

W/L for a starting pitcher are very overrated. Good bullpen's and offensive support are MAJOR factors on whether or not a starter gets a W or L.

I agree. Look at Marquis. Tied for the league lead in wins with 8. But has a 5.03 era. The guy sucks.

 

[Clip Joint]

I agree. Look at Marquis. Tied for the league lead in wins with 8. But has a 5.03 era. The guy sucks.

Don't get me started...having this exact debate over at TheRX with a Cardinals fan. He claims this guy would be an "ace" on most staffs in baseball.

 

[UWinSports]

Don't get me started...having this exact debate over at TheRX with a Cardinals fan. He claims this guy would be an "ace" on most staffs in baseball.

Tell him to lay off the crack

 

[jakethompson]

I vote for Seaver. Carlton struck out more guys but it was harder to score against Seaver and that is what I want in a pitcher.

 

[NightJailer]

I vote for Seaver. Carlton struck out more guys but it was harder to score against Seaver and that is what I want in a pitcher.

Close vote so far....

When Devil votes, it should get even closer.... :+wink-2+ :cheers

 

[Willy Loman]

I voted draw. Very hard to seperate these two.

 

[MadCapper]

This is a very close poll!

 

[Booker Jackson]

Don't get me started...having this exact debate over at TheRX with a Cardinals fan. He claims this guy would be an "ace" on most staffs in baseball.

lmao

 

[dirty]

Don't get me started...having this exact debate over at TheRX with a Cardinals fan. He claims this guy would be an "ace" on most staffs in baseball.

He was an afterthought for the Braves.... If Mazzone gives up on you you are done...The only Pitcher the Braves have every Given up that reached his Potential was Schmidt....and they didn't want to trade him... Marquis has all the tools except where it matters.... in the Noggin.... he was a Crybaby what Crapped his pants first sign of Trouble when he was here...

 

[The Devil]

Sorry Jailer but I go with steve Carlton......Lefty was a dominant pitcher for years with crappy clubs.....Tom Terrific had much better clubs to play with and without looking at the records I believe an over the hill Carlton finished with a few bad years.....the year he was like 27-10 with a bad Phils club I believe is the all time record where he won 58 Pct of the teams games.....

Tom was terrific but Lefty was better.....

 

[railbird2]

I have all my young pitchers read Tom Seavers book, The Art of Pitching

Tommy has a chapter on the slider with Steve Carlton. Tommy would have a skinned knee from pitching from dragging it. Steve would grind his hand in a bucket of sand to build up his wrist strength.

 

[NightJailer]

Sorry Jailer but I go with steve Carlton......Lefty was a dominant pitcher for years with crappy clubs.....Tom Terrific had much better clubs to play with and without looking at the records I believe an over the hill Carlton finished with a few bad years.....the year he was like 27-10 with a bad Phils club I believe is the all time record where he won 58 Pct of the teams games.....

Tom was terrific but Lefty was better.....

Wow!... That's a strong vote for Carlton!! :cheers

 

[Clip Joint]

Tell him to lay off the crack

I don't know if it is ok to link to TheRX (I know they would have a heart attack if I tried to link to here), but check out this thread when you get a chance. I started out joking but couldn't believe he really thought the guy was a quality starter:

http://forum.therx.com/showthread.php?t=378677

Sorry to hijack your thread MC...a great poll and interesting discussion. I wouldn't be able to choose between the 2 personally. :cheers

 

[Romanowski]

Clip I read the thread, kinda agree with both of you, sure Marquis sucks, but you argued he has zero trade value, which he must have some :confused

I do however like the Giants staff, Schmidt, Lowry, Cain and Co

not sure what that was all about

 

[Clip Joint]

Clip I read the thread, kinda agree with both of you, sure Marquis sucks, but you argued he has zero trade value, which he must have some :confused

I do however like the Giants staff, Schmidt, Lowry, Cain and Co

not sure what that was all about

Yea...I started the thread being sarcastic and later said he definitely has some trade value in this day and age of crappy pitchers. But to say he would be an ace on the Giants or "most teams in baseball" is laughable.

The guy would be about 2-8 this year on the Giants.

His last outing was a perfect example...5 IP, 5 ER, 8 hits, 5 walks...gets a win. I'll start a new thread about this clown so I don't keep hijacking this one.