3 Seconds In The Key....
- Thread starter Heim
- Start date
Remember when Adam Silver took over the job from David Stern?
Silver offered a veiled reference to fair officiating.
Searching for the quote now.
Something tells me David Stern appreciated a loose set of rules so the officials could control the action on the floor.
Then came enhanced replay in the 2013-14 season and the Last Two Minute Report instituted in 2015.
Silver offered a veiled reference to fair officiating.
Searching for the quote now.
Something tells me David Stern appreciated a loose set of rules so the officials could control the action on the floor.
Then came enhanced replay in the 2013-14 season and the Last Two Minute Report instituted in 2015.
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Scott Foster went from one of Tim Donaghy's buddies to one of the league's lead officials.
Interesting, very interesting.
winkyduck
TYVM Morgan William!!!
Don't get me started on NBA Officials
Truly pitiful in all aspects. Save me the crap about them being the very best. THEY SUCK!
For the record.....3-seconds in the key is very subjective and if you call it that player better be in there for close to 5 rather than 3
For me, and others, it depends where the ball is, too. If the ball is on the other side of half court NO CHANCE IN HELL I am calling 3-seconds even if the player is there for 15 seconds. If I see a player in the key for some time and the ball is being passed around and he is not a focus of the play I will say something like, "Hey #32 get out of the key" and if the payer does I'll let it go because now he is not impacting the play. If I tell him/her to get out and they make no motion to do so I'm calling it since a good official will use their voice to talk players out of something before they have to blow the whistle.
I didn't see any of the game so I can't comment on anything in particular but I know officials will do all they can to avoid blowing the whistle unless they have to do so. Move the game along as much as you can..
Truly pitiful in all aspects. Save me the crap about them being the very best. THEY SUCK!
For the record.....3-seconds in the key is very subjective and if you call it that player better be in there for close to 5 rather than 3
For me, and others, it depends where the ball is, too. If the ball is on the other side of half court NO CHANCE IN HELL I am calling 3-seconds even if the player is there for 15 seconds. If I see a player in the key for some time and the ball is being passed around and he is not a focus of the play I will say something like, "Hey #32 get out of the key" and if the payer does I'll let it go because now he is not impacting the play. If I tell him/her to get out and they make no motion to do so I'm calling it since a good official will use their voice to talk players out of something before they have to blow the whistle.
I didn't see any of the game so I can't comment on anything in particular but I know officials will do all they can to avoid blowing the whistle unless they have to do so. Move the game along as much as you can..
jimmythegreek
The opening odds start here
Outside of passing, shooting, or quick dribble of the ball, the post up or crossing of the paint too slow from side to side has to be noted and executed just as much as the defensive 3, which at times we see more than one offense.
There's the spirit of the law and the letter of the law.
If you don't go by the letter of the law, you have a lot of individual spirits floating out there.
Not good.
Some officials will not call the game by the book, if an advantage is not gained.
I contend you should call every violation, no matter the circumstance.
If you don't go by the letter of the law, you have a lot of individual spirits floating out there.
Not good.
Some officials will not call the game by the book, if an advantage is not gained.
I contend you should call every violation, no matter the circumstance.
winkyduck
TYVM Morgan William!!!
BULLSHIT! Your line above it was right
Many years ago I was doing youth league games. 3rd and 4th grade kids. I know this is "apples and oranges" but when you call games at that level you let a lot go. You have to. The parents appreciate it as long as you are consistent in what you call. Or don't call. One day we are at halftime and some woman comes to where my partner and I were and said we were doing a terrible job and how we were letting too much go. She said we need to call things and not let them go. I asked her if she wanted us to call everything and she said she did. I told her we would do just that. So if a player stepped on the baseline while inbounding the ball we called it even though the team got a free pass to the 3 point line in the offensive end. A kid traveled or double bringing the ball up court - we called it. Everyone is going bonkers. WTF are we doing they wanted to know. So I told them we were told to call everything we see and not let anything go and I pointed out the woman who said that. Every single parent in the place gave her a dirty look and she got so mad she left. Once she did we went back to calling the game the way we were and everyone was happy with it.
I can't even begin to count the number of times Team A will have the ball around the top of the key in the offensive end. The defensive player will make some contact with the ballhandler. Some times the ball handler will do something like travel or commit a similar ballhandling violation. I will let it go. I will pass by the Team B bench and the coach will ask how come I didn't call a travel on Team A. I will reply, "You mean the one caused by your guy fouling him?" letting the coach know I passed on calling a foul against his kid by not calling anything.
I've said this before and will do so once again. I am the ref down low. Team A has the ball. A Team B player is on the blocks in good rebounding position. Team A player will dislodge him from his spot. A foul. But I hold my whistle unless the kid really shoved him out of the way. If the ball goes in for a basket or the ball bounces completely the other way - NO FOUL is called. I let the Team A player know I saw it and tell him to knock it off but no foul is called. Let the game continue. But if the ball lands where the Team A player is and where the Team B player was dislodged - TWEET! Whistle gets blown and we have a foul and frequently fans and the Team A coach wonder WTF did I do - there was no push. They saw. They are right. The push happened when the ball was on the other side of the court but the push created an Advantage I had to call once there was an Impact on the play.
You all would be floored and stunned at how many rules there are on the books in basketball that NEVER get called by veteran officials and the game is better off because of it. As much as people bitch about officials if they called everything by the LETTER of the law you all would crucify them.
Show me a basketball official who calls things BY THE BOOK and I will show you the worst official out there.
I'll add one more thing. For those of you who think you know the rules.........................YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT!!! I have to take a 100 question closed book test and top officials have to get about 90% right. I am 4-million percent sure NO ONE HERE would get over 75% and that 15% makes a massive difference.
Every single league is always looking for good basketball officials. If you think you are good enough to be one please contact them. They would love to have you join and work for them. Just know that while you think you may be good - if you have never officiated before YOU SUCK! Railbird makes me laugh when he says he could do high level Boys Varsity games despite the fact he has never officiated a game - or HS game. Rail would get chewed up and eaten alive if he tried to go a Girls Freshman game let alone a high level Boys JV game.
So don't be making me laugh saying how officials should work a game if you have never put a whistle in your mouth for any kid of competitive game. Put on stripes and a whistle and do some games and see why calling games BY THE BOOK is a joke and something NOT ONE good official will ever do - and the game is better off because of it
I'd whistle the third or fourth-grader for illegal contact before the traveling call or ballhandling violation.
How else are the kids going to learn the rules of the game?
Or are they simply learning the game according to WINKY's rules?
How else are the kids going to learn the rules of the game?
Or are they simply learning the game according to WINKY's rules?
And no, I don't want take the 100-question closed-book test on the rules.
winkyduck
TYVM Morgan William!!!
3rd and 4th grade kids are there to have fun and be a part of a team for the first time. The time for kids to learn the game at that age is not on the court - it is at practice. They are there to have fun and score a basket so later that night when they talk to grandma and grandpa they can say they scored a basket (even though the team lost by 30).
The one thing I frequently had to do was stop the game for one thing. I lost track of the number of illegal screens we had to call. Kids would try and set a screen by running into the defender or sticking out an arm or similar. After we called it 2-3x in 1Q I would stop the game, get all the kids together and show them what a legal screen WAS and WAS NOT! 100% of the time the parents/coaches appreciated me doing it. That was the only time I did it.
You simply cannot call the game by the letter of the law. You just can't. SPIRIT of the law is a must. I'll do Adult Rec League games and if the big guy for a team has 2 fouls in 1h the next time he commits a foul I will see if I can pass it off on someone else. If the big guy and say, point guard, reach in and foul the big guy for the other team I will try and call it on the Point Guard or anyone else so the big guy doesn't get his 3rd foul unless I have no choice and have to call it on him.
Heim
EOG Master
Tucker gets away with murder in the key besides the holding and pushing. He's never going
to get the ball in there. They only look for him on the sideline three. But he roams the key
as if he's getting the ball only there for the OR. I counted him in the key for 8 seconds one
possession.
Traveling? Another issue. There's the Euro step and there's the pivot foot shuffle. There is
a difference. Giannis does more shuffle than Euro.....
And I have the Bucks.
to get the ball in there. They only look for him on the sideline three. But he roams the key
as if he's getting the ball only there for the OR. I counted him in the key for 8 seconds one
possession.
Traveling? Another issue. There's the Euro step and there's the pivot foot shuffle. There is
a difference. Giannis does more shuffle than Euro.....
And I have the Bucks.
WildBill
2
They can and did change the game calling the fouls on Ayton. Not going to say it changed the outcome, but still forcing a team to use a zone defense and play a different offensive style because of two soft calls is a big influence they shouldn't have. I really don't get the need for fouling out, it's a dumb rule that doesn't make the game better.
Woodrow Wilson
EOG Dedicated
SMH
ESPN analyst Jalen Rose ripped Frank Kaminsky in his post-game commentary.
Said Kaminsky looked like "a deer in headlights."
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WildBill
2
Saric is total trash too though, Kaminsky isn't that much of a downgrade. Best strategy is use the guys they have like Crowder and Craig and just accept neither is a real answer, but at least can contribute more on the offensive end. I don't know what happened to the Tank's game, he was like Kevin McHale at Wisconsin but shows no offensive skills at the NBA level.
I went to school with Frank's mother.
She (Mary Stack) was on Northwestern's volleyball team.
Mary is second from the left in the first picture and at the far right in the second.
Mary's two siblings, Frank's aunt (Karen Stack) and uncle (Jim Stack), played basketball at NU.
Far more difficult to find photos on the Internet from game action in the early 1980's.
She (Mary Stack) was on Northwestern's volleyball team.
Mary is second from the left in the first picture and at the far right in the second.
Mary's two siblings, Frank's aunt (Karen Stack) and uncle (Jim Stack), played basketball at NU.
Far more difficult to find photos on the Internet from game action in the early 1980's.
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FairWarning
Bells Beer Connoisseur
Jim Stack was a pretty good player at Northwestern.
Yes he was.
Just a cut below the NBA level.
He was drafted in the sixth round of the 1983 NBA Draft by the Houston Rockets but failed to make the team.
Wound up playing in Europe and then served as an NBA scout before landing his biggest front-office job as general manager of the Minnesota Timberwolves from 2004-09.
Some credit Stack's scouting eye for the Bulls success under Phil Jackson.
Almost Allright
GO Bucks!!!
Uh that’s not the rule anyway.
winkyduck
TYVM Morgan William!!!
I still laugh about this today.
What most people attending games don't realize is: I have a whistle in my mouth. You don't!
If I make a call - and I know I am right - and you give me shit over it.......guess what is gonna happen the next time I get a 50/50 call? You gave me shit when I was RIGHT so even if I am wrong I know I am gonna get shit from you
A handful of years after Hoosiers I am reffing some adult rec league. The guy who was "Jimmy Chitwood" was playing in the game. We all knew it, too. He never said a word on anything. If he got slightly bumped and there could have been a foul - he never said a word. One time he makes a play and when I didn't call anything he was not happy at all about it. He let me know I missed the call. When someone says nothing to you and then says something deep down we think "He might be right and maybe I missed that call" so the next time there is a 50/50 call odds are he will get the call his way since he never says a word and last time he did so maybe I "owe? him one.
There is one local coach in the area who bitches on every call made against his team. Like I said above - any 50/50 call ain't going his way since he bitches so much, even when everyone in the gym knows the right call was made.
WildBill
2
Wish the NBA refs did this with the Lakers and Lebron, but you know they don't.
Don Eagleston
EOG Addicted
JK, you've got to be kidding me. The game would be quite dull if the refs called every violation. They have seldom called 3-second violations, palming, traveling, double dribble etc. during the last 50 years. I saw a game circa 1960 in which the Phila Warriors and the Syracuse Nats combined for over 100 foul shots. My father was not happy to say the least.
Tiny Archibald walked every time he had the ball before dribbling . Never called. Nobody could guard Wilt and Wilt couldn't shoot free throws. The refs let most fouls against Wilt go. What would be the point. The big white guys trying to guard Wilt would quickly foul out and Wilt would miss half the free throws. The NBA is purely entertainment. East coast driven and not that popular before the Lakers moved west. And don't forget when refs would give a warning and then call a tech for zone defense.
winkyduck
TYVM Morgan William!!!
JK and I discussed this a few weeks ago
I said that Katie Lou Samuelson's Junior and Senior Year at Mater Dei I officiated their (pre-season) scrimmage game. The "rules" for this game are very strict in that: NO score is kept. You can keep a running tally on the board for the quarter but then when the quarter ends you zero out the clock. Parents attend but not much else. Fouls are called but not written down
So I am doing the game and JUST ABOUT EVERY SINGLE TIME Katie Lou went up for a shot I called her for travelling. I must have called at least 5 per game. Mater Dei is a top-ranked national program and (at the time) Katie Lou was a National PoY candidate. Watch her shoot. You will see almost every time she takes a shot she does a "bunny hop" - THAT IS TRAVELING! Period. Nothing to debate. Yet NO ONE else calls it. I called it and by the end of the game Katie's father (who I knew since he played for us his Freshman Year at CSUF) was seething mad because I dared make the RIGHT call on his daughter - something no one else did. I didn't care.
What gets officials in trouble is when officials are not consistent. When one calls it one way and another calls it a different way. I hear teams say "We've never had that called all season" and they might be right but that is only because those refs fucked up.
But as DE so correctly pointed out - calling basketball 100% "by the book" would result in a terrible game that no one wants to watch
boston massacre
EOG Master
In Chris Paul's Last 13 Playoffs Games That Scott Foster Has Refereed , Chris Paul's Team W/L Record is 0-13.
GameBred
I Trade Therefore I Am
Can you please stop talking basketball, just please stop. You have no clue what you're talking about. I proved that last year when I embarrassed you and you said you were going to leave.... don't let the door hit you.
Heim, who is no LBJ guy, said he has never seen a SuperStar get less calls than LBJ. Enough of your excuses and poor analysis, etc. Just enough.
