America, the Grim truth

Spytheweb

EOG Addicted
This guy brings up a lot of good points, there are a lot of things that can make America better but i fear they will never be done.

By Lance Freeman

April 08, 2010 "Information Clearing House" -- Americans, I have some bad news for you:

You have the worst quality of life in the developed world ? by a wide margin.

If you had any idea of how people really lived in Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and many parts of Asia, you?d be rioting in the streets calling for a better life. In fact, the average Australian or Singaporean taxi driver has a much better standard of living than the typical American white-collar worker.

I know this because I am an American, and I escaped from the prison you call home.

I have lived all around the world, in wealthy countries and poor ones, and there is only one country I would never consider living in again: The United States of America. The mere thought of it fills me with dread.

Consider this: you are the only people in the developed world without a single-payer health system. Everyone in Western Europe, Japan, Canada, Australia, Singapore and New Zealand has a single-payer system. If they get sick, they can devote all their energies to getting well. If you get sick, you have to battle two things at once: your illness and the fear of financial ruin. Millions of Americans go bankrupt every year due to medical bills, and tens of thousands die each year because they have no insurance or insufficient insurance. And don?t believe for a second that rot about America having the world?s best medical care or the shortest waiting lists: I?ve been to hospitals in Australia, New Zealand, Europe, Singapore, and Thailand, and every one was better than the ?good? hospital I used to go to back home. The waits were shorter, the facilities more comfortable, and the doctors just as good.

This is ironic, because you need a good health system more than anyone else in the world. Why? Because your lifestyle is almost designed to make you sick.

Let?s start with your diet: Much of the beef you eat has been exposed to fecal matter in processing. Your chicken is contaminated with salmonella. Your stock animals and poultry are pumped full of growth hormones and antibiotics. In most other countries, the government would act to protect consumers from this sort of thing; in the United States, the government is bought off by industry to prevent any effective regulations or inspections. In a few years, the majority of all the produce for sale in the United States will be from genetically modified crops, thanks to the cozy relationship between Monsanto Corporation and the United States government. Worse still, due to the vast quantities of high-fructose corn syrup Americans consume, fully one-third of children born in the United States today will be diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes at some point in their lives.

Of course, it?s not just the food that?s killing you, it?s the drugs. If you show any sign of life when you?re young, they?ll put you on Ritalin. Then, when you get old enough to take a good look around, you?ll get depressed, so they?ll give you Prozac. If you?re a man, this will render you chemically impotent, so you?ll need Viagra to get it up. Meanwhile, your steady diet of trans-fat-laden food is guaranteed to give you high cholesterol, so you?ll get a prescription for Lipitor. Finally, at the end of the day, you?ll lay awake at night worrying about losing your health plan, so you?ll need Lunesta to go to sleep.

With a diet guaranteed to make you sick and a health system designed to make sure you stay that way, what you really need is a long vacation somewhere. Unfortunately, you probably can?t take one. I?ll let you in on little secret: if you go to the beaches of Thailand, the mountains of Nepal, or the coral reefs of Australia, you?ll probably be the only American in sight. And you?ll be surrounded crowds of happy Germans, French, Italians, Israelis, Scandinavians and wealthy Asians. Why? Because they?re paid well enough to afford to visit these places AND they can take vacations long enough to do so. Even if you could scrape together enough money to go to one of these incredible places, by the time you recovered from your jetlag, it would time to get on a plane and rush back to your job.

If you think I?m making this up, check the stats on average annual vacation days by country:

Finland: 44
Italy: 42
France: 39
Germany: 35
UK: 25
Japan: 18
USA: 12

There is alot more here,
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle25166.htm
 

brucefan

EOG Dedicated
Re: America, the Grim truth

This guy brings up a lot of good points, there are a lot of things that can make America better but i fear they will never be done.

By Lance Freeman

April 08, 2010 "Information Clearing House" -- Americans, I have some bad news for you:

You have the worst quality of life in the developed world ? by a wide margin.

If you had any idea of how people really lived in Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and many parts of Asia, you?d be rioting in the streets calling for a better life. In fact, the average Australian or Singaporean taxi driver has a much better standard of living than the typical American white-collar worker.

I know this because I am an American, and I escaped from the prison you call home.

I have lived all around the world, in wealthy countries and poor ones, and there is only one country I would never consider living in again: The United States of America. The mere thought of it fills me with dread.

Consider this: you are the only people in the developed world without a single-payer health system. Everyone in Western Europe, Japan, Canada, Australia, Singapore and New Zealand has a single-payer system. If they get sick, they can devote all their energies to getting well. If you get sick, you have to battle two things at once: your illness and the fear of financial ruin. Millions of Americans go bankrupt every year due to medical bills, and tens of thousands die each year because they have no insurance or insufficient insurance. And don?t believe for a second that rot about America having the world?s best medical care or the shortest waiting lists: I?ve been to hospitals in Australia, New Zealand, Europe, Singapore, and Thailand, and every one was better than the ?good? hospital I used to go to back home. The waits were shorter, the facilities more comfortable, and the doctors just as good.

This is ironic, because you need a good health system more than anyone else in the world. Why? Because your lifestyle is almost designed to make you sick.

Let?s start with your diet: Much of the beef you eat has been exposed to fecal matter in processing. Your chicken is contaminated with salmonella. Your stock animals and poultry are pumped full of growth hormones and antibiotics. In most other countries, the government would act to protect consumers from this sort of thing; in the United States, the government is bought off by industry to prevent any effective regulations or inspections. In a few years, the majority of all the produce for sale in the United States will be from genetically modified crops, thanks to the cozy relationship between Monsanto Corporation and the United States government. Worse still, due to the vast quantities of high-fructose corn syrup Americans consume, fully one-third of children born in the United States today will be diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes at some point in their lives.

Of course, it?s not just the food that?s killing you, it?s the drugs. If you show any sign of life when you?re young, they?ll put you on Ritalin. Then, when you get old enough to take a good look around, you?ll get depressed, so they?ll give you Prozac. If you?re a man, this will render you chemically impotent, so you?ll need Viagra to get it up. Meanwhile, your steady diet of trans-fat-laden food is guaranteed to give you high cholesterol, so you?ll get a prescription for Lipitor. Finally, at the end of the day, you?ll lay awake at night worrying about losing your health plan, so you?ll need Lunesta to go to sleep.

With a diet guaranteed to make you sick and a health system designed to make sure you stay that way, what you really need is a long vacation somewhere. Unfortunately, you probably can?t take one. I?ll let you in on little secret: if you go to the beaches of Thailand, the mountains of Nepal, or the coral reefs of Australia, you?ll probably be the only American in sight. And you?ll be surrounded crowds of happy Germans, French, Italians, Israelis, Scandinavians and wealthy Asians. Why? Because they?re paid well enough to afford to visit these places AND they can take vacations long enough to do so. Even if you could scrape together enough money to go to one of these incredible places, by the time you recovered from your jetlag, it would time to get on a plane and rush back to your job.

If you think I?m making this up, check the stats on average annual vacation days by country:

Finland: 44
Italy: 42
France: 39
Germany: 35
UK: 25
Japan: 18
USA: 12

There is alot more here,
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle25166.htm


MOVE!!!

Get of my Country! The problem with the marxist radical revolutionaries,is they dont have the balls to bring that debate to the people in an honest way

Do you want single payor, or not?

Stick your neck out and lay on the line, instead of nudging us into your warped world

As they try and transform America, people are waking up to the end game, and rejecting it Spy
 
Re: America, the Grim truth

Nice article, Spy. The fact that it apparently irritated one of our kooky wackjobs makes it even better.
 

BCTTWR

EOG Dedicated
Re: America, the Grim truth

:LMAO:LMAO:LMAO:LMAOI have been to these european countries. They envy America. All want to come here. Healthcare is the worst over there. 600% higher chance of dying of prostate/breast cancer across the pond. Women who have stage 4 breast cancer are denied the best treatment. Hurry up and die is their healthcare policy.

Could this happen here? Reading these Obama Zombie posts, maybe.
 
Re: America, the Grim truth

Imagine you walking into a restaurant, the hostess seats you at your table and you are given the menu. The waiter comes over, introduces himself and informs you management requires ca$h upfront for the entire meal, including taxes and tip -- before you are served. You pause for a minute, then shrug it off and place your order:

cream of tomato soup
house salad
roasted filet, served with a double stuffed potato and side veggies
glass of your fav. beer
a slice of chocolate cheesecake

The waiter hands you the bill and you pay him in full.

About a half an hour later, the waiter comes back and informs you they ran out of filet and will serve you chicken instead. The conversation goes something like this:

You: "But I ordered the filet"

Waiter: "Sorry, it's all we have."

You: "Fine, I'll go to the steakhouse down the street. Just give me my money back and I'll be on my way."

Waiter: "Umm, we already redistributed part of your money to the two people over at table #3 so they could afford to eat a burger. So all we can afford to give you is chicken."

You: :blink:

That's socialism, folks.

Through confiscatory taxes, over a lifetime, they make you pay tens of thousands into a system blindly without a contract. Meaning, you have no idea what you're going to get in return when you really need it.

Maybe one day after paying into "the system" for decades you're diagnosed with terminal cancer and your doc suggests a drug that costs 30K with a success rate of about 40%.

If that drug is too expensive and the bureaucrats won't bring it to market, well, you're out of luck. They send you home to die.

It's not like you can ask the government for a refund, take YOUR MONEY and go off to some exotic island buying the treatment outside of the system.

Too late. All that productivity you gave to the government for years has already been spent on someone else.

In short, you're screwed.

You bought into the political snake oil about how "compassionate" socialism is and now the government wants to wipe you off their books because their welfare state is drowning in red ink. So they want you to forfeit that 40% chance at life for the "amorphous "common good." The phrase "death panels" comes to mind, but the lefties on here might get their panties in a knot so I better mind my, err, keyboard.

You're not a human being, you're a number....a expendable serf.

Don't believe me?

Watch this:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IT7Y0TOBuG4&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IT7Y0TOBuG4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

That's socialism, folks.

In America, sure, it's possible you might go bankrupt trying to save your life (if you're one of those instant gratification types who never bothers saving for catastrophe) but at least you'd still be alive.

In the socialist countries, you die. Period. End of issue.

Would you rather be broke and renting? Or dead with lots of real estate?

Duuhhhhhh....insurance companies are screwing people....duhhhhhh!

Duhhhhhhh....socialism is compassionate...people don't go bankrupt in France paying medical bills...duhhhhhh!

Unbelievable how you brainwashed Obama zombies swallow this Utopian socialist propaganda. 2938u4ji23

Socialism isn't "compassionate", it's inhumane and immoral.
 

Spytheweb

EOG Addicted
Re: America, the Grim truth

MOVE!!!

Get of my Country! The problem with the marxist radical revolutionaries,is they dont have the balls to bring that debate to the people in an honest way

Do you want single payor, or not?

Stick your neck out and lay on the line, instead of nudging us into your warped world

As they try and transform America, people are waking up to the end game, and rejecting it Spy

There is no debate. Americans are being ripped off and you for one do not mind it, encourage it, support it.

If i could move now i would. In less than 3 year it could happen for me, it will never happen for you.

BTW, Is this a preview of Nov. elections?

BOCA RATON, Fla. ? Republican backlash over President Barack Obama's health care overhaul had little effect in the nation's first U.S. House race of 2010.

Florida Democratic state Sen. Ted Deutch handily won Tuesday's special election to replace retiring Democratic U.S. Rep. Robert Wexler after his underdog GOP opponent attempted to make the contest a referendum on the massive health care bill.

"We've heard for months that tonight ... is a referendum on health care, it's a referendum on the (Obama) administration, it's a referendum on what direction this country is going," Deutch told supporters. "Let me tell you something, what we learned today is that in Broward County and Palm Beach County, Florida, the Democratic Party is alive and well."

With 100 percent of precincts reporting, Deutch, an attorney, had 62 percent of the vote compared to 35 percent for Republican Ed Lynch. No-party candidate Jim McCormick trailed far behind with just 3 percent.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100414/..._wexler_s_seat
 

Spytheweb

EOG Addicted
Re: America, the Grim truth

:LMAO:LMAO:LMAO:LMAOI have been to these european countries. They envy America. All want to come here. Healthcare is the worst over there. 600% higher chance of dying of prostate/breast cancer across the pond. Women who have stage 4 breast cancer are denied the best treatment. Hurry up and die is their healthcare policy.

Could this happen here? Reading these Obama Zombie posts, maybe.

Yet they live longer?

"Medical Costs Are Very Cheap in Thailand - The cost of medications and doctor's visits in Thailand are very inexpensive. I recently had a chest x-ray, blood tests for diabetes, thyroid and sundry other ills, an EKG and two doctor's visits. The grand total? Less than $60 for everything and this at one of the top hospitals in Bangkok. Medication is inexpensive and much of it is available over the counter without a doctor's prescription, which cuts costs even more. Doctors too usually speak excellent English. The healthcare in most of Thailand too is as good, if not better, than in the west as many of the doctors here are western-educated and trained. As they get older, many retirees worry about burgeoning health costs - something that's not even a minor concern in Thailand."

"Every year, as the west gets more expensive to retire in, more and more retirees are moving to Thailand. You'll meet retirees from Japan, Korea, Malaysia, and Singapore as well as from most countries in Europe and the US. There are less American retirees than any other nationality, something which I don't understand as the lifestyle in Thailand for retirees is much better than in the US."

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1752226/why_many_retirees_retire_to_thailand.html?cat=12
 

Spytheweb

EOG Addicted
Re: America, the Grim truth

Imagine you walking into a restaurant, the hostess seats you at your table and you are given the menu. The waiter comes over, introduces himself and informs you management requires ca$h upfront for the entire meal, including taxes and tip -- before you are served. You pause for a minute, then shrug it off and place your order:

cream of tomato soup
house salad
roasted filet, served with a double stuffed potato and side veggies
glass of your fav. beer
a slice of chocolate cheesecake

The waiter hands you the bill and you pay him in full.

About a half an hour later, the waiter comes back and informs you they ran out of filet and will serve you chicken instead. The conversation goes something like this:

You: "But I ordered the filet"

Waiter: "Sorry, it's all we have."

You: "Fine, I'll go to the steakhouse down the street. Just give me my money back and I'll be on my way."

Waiter: "Umm, we already redistributed part of your money to the two people over at table #3 so they could afford to eat a burger. So all we can afford to give you is chicken."

You: :blink:

That's socialism, folks.

Through confiscatory taxes, over a lifetime, they make you pay tens of thousands into a system blindly without a contract. Meaning, you have no idea what you're going to get in return when you really need it.

Maybe one day after paying into "the system" for decades you're diagnosed with terminal cancer and your doc suggests a drug that costs 30K with a success rate of about 40%.

If that drug is too expensive and the bureaucrats won't bring it to market, well, you're out of luck. They send you home to die.

It's not like you can ask the government for a refund, take YOUR MONEY and go off to some exotic island buying the treatment outside of the system.

Too late. All that productivity you gave to the government for years has already been spent on someone else.

In short, you're screwed.

You bought into the political snake oil about how "compassionate" socialism is and now the government wants to wipe you off their books because their welfare state is drowning in red ink. So they want you to forfeit that 40% chance at life for the "amorphous "common good." The phrase "death panels" comes to mind, but the lefties on here might get their panties in a knot so I better mind my, err, keyboard.

You're not a human being, you're a number....a expendable serf.

Don't believe me?

Watch this:

<object width="480" height="385">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IT7Y0TOBuG4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></object>

That's socialism, folks.

In America, sure, it's possible you might go bankrupt trying to save your life (if you're one of those instant gratification types who never bothers saving for catastrophe) but at least you'd still be alive.

In the socialist countries, you die. Period. End of issue.

Would you rather be broke and renting? Or dead with lots of real estate?

Duuhhhhhh....insurance companies are screwing people....duhhhhhh!

Duhhhhhhh....socialism is compassionate...people don't go bankrupt in France paying medical bills...duhhhhhh!

Unbelievable how you brainwashed Obama zombies swallow this Utopian socialist propaganda. 2938u4ji23

Socialism isn't "compassionate", it's inhumane and immoral.

Death by denial, you die here in America too!


http://juliepierce-sicko.blogspot.com/
 

Coulter

EOG Member
Re: America, the Grim truth

These guys are a bunch of morons on this site. Abolish the IRS. Obama is Hitler. Socialism is taking over. Our health care is not the best in the world. Deal with it. We have the most expensive and least efficient health care in the world. That is not up for debate but fact. We spend 16% of our GDP on health care 4% higher than any other developed nation. And we don't insure 40 plus million Americans. We work harder and longer than any other nation and yet the over the last decade the wages for the middle class has increased minimally, while the wages for CEO's have increased over 300%. Why don't you guys go watch and cry with Glen Beck and tell yourselves you each love this country more. By the way Glen Beck pocketed 32 million last year scaring people with this rhetoric.
 
Re: America, the Grim truth

Uh oh! Here come the anecdotal tales of woe...


San Francisco has "single payer" = broke
Taxachesetts has "single payer" = BANKRUPT

Meanwhile, the doctor shortages are already starting...

Medical Schools Can't Keep Up

As Ranks of Insured Expand, Nation Faces Shortage of 150,000 Doctors in 15 Years

<iframe style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" border="0" vspace="0" hspace="0" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" id="ad0_0_WA_0001Ciframe" src="http://ad.doubleclick.net/adi/interactive.wsj.com/lifestyle_health_story;%21category=;page=article;msrc=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsSecond;;mc=b2pfreezone_super;tile=2;sz=571x47;ord=9033903390339033;" width="571" frameborder="0" height="47" scrolling="no"></iframe>

By SUZANNE SATALINE And SHIRLEY S. WANG

<cite>Getty Images</cite> First-year resident Dr. Rachel Seay, third from left, circumcises a newborn in George Washington University Hospital's delivery wing on March 12.

The new federal health-care law has raised the stakes for hospitals and schools already scrambling to train more doctors.

Experts warn there won't be enough doctors to treat the millions of people newly insured under the law. At current graduation and training rates, the nation could face a shortage of as many as 150,000 doctors in the next 15 years, according to the Association of American Medical Colleges.

That shortfall is predicted despite a push by teaching hospitals and medical schools to boost the number of U.S. doctors, which now totals about 954,000.

The greatest demand will be for primary-care physicians. These general practitioners, internists, family physicians and pediatricians will have a larger role under the new law, coordinating care for each patient.

The U.S. has 352,908 primary-care doctors now, and the college association estimates that 45,000 more will be needed by 2020. But the number of medical-school students entering family medicine fell more than a quarter between 2002 and 2007.

A shortage of primary-care and other physicians could mean more-limited access to health care and longer wait times for patients.

Proponents of the new health-care law say it does attempt to address the physician shortage. The law offers sweeteners to encourage more people to enter medical professions, and a 10% Medicare pay boost for primary-care doctors.

Meanwhile, a number of new medical schools have opened around the country recently. As of last October, four new medical schools enrolled a total of about 190 students, and 12 medical schools raised the enrollment of first-year students by a total of 150 slots, according to the AAMC. Some 18,000 students entered U.S. medical schools in the fall of 2009, the AAMC says.

But medical colleges and hospitals warn that these efforts will hit a big bottleneck: There is a shortage of medical resident positions. The residency is the minimum three-year period when medical-school graduates train in hospitals and clinics.

There are about 110,000 resident positions in the U.S., according to the AAMC. Teaching hospitals rely heavily on Medicare funding to pay for these slots. In 1997, Congress imposed a cap on funding for medical residencies, which hospitals say has increasingly hurt their ability to expand the number of positions.

Medicare pays $9.1 billion a year to teaching hospitals, which goes toward resident salaries and direct teaching costs, as well as the higher operating costs associated with teaching hospitals, which tend to see the sickest and most costly patients.

Doctors' groups and medical schools had hoped that the new health-care law, passed in March, would increase the number of funded residency slots, but such a provision didn't make it into the final bill.

"It will probably take 10 years to even make a dent into the number of doctors that we need out there," said Atul Grover, the AAMC's chief
advocacy officer.

While doctors trained in other countries could theoretically help the primary-care shortage, they hit the same bottleneck with resident slots, because they must still complete a U.S. residency in order to get a license to practice medicine independently in the U.S. In the 2010 class of residents, some 13% of slots are filled by non-U.S. citizens who completed medical school outside the U.S.

One provision in the law attempts to address residencies. Since some residency slots go unfilled each year, the law will pool the funding for unused slots and redistribute it to other institutions, with the majority of these slots going to primary-care or general-surgery residencies. The slot redistribution, in effect, will create additional residencies, because previously unfilled positions will now be used, according to the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services.

Some efforts by educators are focused on boosting the number of primary-care doctors. The University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences anticipates the state will need 350 more primary-care doctors in the next five years. So it raised its class size by 24 students last year, beyond the 150 previous annual admissions.

In addition, the university opened a satellite medical campus in Fayetteville to give six third-year students additional clinical-training opportunities, said Richard Wheeler, executive associate dean for academic affairs. The school asks students to commit to entering rural medicine, and the school has 73 people in the program.<cite class="cMetadata metadataType-comment">—Michael Brennan</cite>

"We've tried to make sure the attitude of students going into primary care has changed," said Dr. Wheeler. "To make sure primary care is a respected specialty to go into."

Montefiore Medical Center, the university hospital for Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York, has 1,220 residency slots. Since the 1970s, Montefiore has encouraged residents to work a few days a week in community clinics in New York's Bronx borough, where about 64 Montefiore residents a year care for pregnant women, deliver children and provide vaccines. There has been a slight increase in the number of residents who ask to join the program, said Peter Selwyn, chairman of Montefiore's department of family and social medicine.

One is Justin Sanders, a 2007 graduate of the University of Vermont College of Medicine who is a second-year resident at Montefiore. In recent weeks, he has been caring for children he helped deliver. He said more doctors are needed in his area, but acknowledged that "primary-care residencies are not in the sexier end. A lot of these [specialty] fields are a lot sexier to students with high debt burdens."



Write to Suzanne Sataline at suzanne.sataline@wsj.com and Shirley S. Wang at shirley.wang@wsj.com
 
Re: America, the Grim truth

These guys are a bunch of morons on this site.
Speak for yourself.
Abolish the IRS.
The IRS has become too powerful and tyrannical.
Obama is Hitler.
The verdict is still out on that one.
Socialism is taking over.
This is well documented. What % of GDP does the government control/own now? How much is enough for you?
Our health care is not the best in the world.
Yes it is.
Deal with it.
Move.
We have the most expensive...
You get what you pay for.
and least efficient health care in the world.
The most heavily government regulated and restricted (socialist) areas are the least "efficient" (Medicare, Medicaid etc.), you are correct.
That is not up for debate but fact.
That government health care is broke? We agree.
We spend 16% of our GDP on health care 4% higher than any other developed nation.
You get what you pay for (see my answer above). We're only having this debate because you 'progressives' decided on a whim that the government could provide a service it has no business being in, and one frankly it doesn't perform very well.

The fact is, if someone wants to spend 40-50% of their net worth saving their life, that's their own personal business, not yours.

And we don't insure 40 plus million Americans.
Ridiculous exaggerated number which has been debunked many times.

Besides, which article in the Constitution mandates that the government provide health care? :+clueless

We work harder and longer than any other nation and yet the over the last decade the wages for the middle class has increased minimally, while the wages for CEO's have increased over 300%.

GIVE THEM THE WEALTH!
GIVE THEM THE WEALTH!


Are you saying there's a correlation between the former and the latter?

Here's how this debate usually goes with a lefty who complains "the rich are getting richer, while the poor are getting poorer":

Me: "If we didn't tax the private sector so much, products would cost less and there would be more opportunities for anyone with the will to climb the ladder."

Lib: "Well, if those executives didn't make so much money they wouldn't have to charge so much. What they make is ridiculous. It's not fair."

Me again: "The amount A CEO makes is chump change to the price of their products, and companies have to provide a competitive salary to their best executives. What a CEO makes is a minuscule fraction of what they pay in taxes. 50% of the population are freeloaders and don't even pay taxes and you want to tell the other half they're not paying enough?????"

Lib: "Well, it's not right and it's not fair."

End of conversation.

The trouble with you lefties is this:

You can read, write, and memorize. But when it comes to reasoning, you're impaired. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm stating a fact.

The same idiots who whine about "record CEO profits" wonder why prices are so high and jobs are cut or sent overseas.

Lefties just can’t reason. :doh1

Here's a perfect example of your inane Alinsky demagoguery in action:

Barack Obama will raise Capital Gains Taxes...even if it means less tax revenue!!

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/54jr3Ceu894&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/54jr3Ceu894&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

"Oh, he's so professorial and intelligent...with no negro dialect...let's make him president and make history!" :doh1

Hey serf, how does it feel watching "one of your own" leading this country into the crapper implementing your ignorant gospel of envy?

Why don't you guys go watch and cry with Glen Beck and tell yourselves you each love this country more. By the way Glen Beck pocketed 32 million last year scaring people with this rhetoric.
At least Glenn didn't steal it, unlike the Marxist Kenyan who is in process of smashing the bank accounts of this generation and beyond. 2938u4ji23
 

Spytheweb

EOG Addicted
Re: America, the Grim truth

"More American physicians focusing on specialized medicine" because that's where the money is. When you live in a country who has a medical market driven by profit, this is what you get.

This is why we need a single payer system.
 
Re: America, the Grim truth

"More American physicians focusing on specialized medicine" because that's where the money is. When you live in a country who has a medical market driven by profit, this is what you get.

This is why we need a single payer system.

"single payer" = minimum wage doctors. 2938u4ji23
 

Spytheweb

EOG Addicted
Re: America, the Grim truth

"single payer" = minimum wage doctors. 2938u4ji23

Doctors will receive a base pay and bonuses for keeping people well, oh damn what an idea, doctor actually trying to patients well. Doctors who can't will lose money. Talk about cost control, everybody wants it, just not with their checks.
 
Re: America, the Grim truth

Doctors will receive a base pay and bonuses for keeping people well, oh damn what an idea, doctor actually trying to patients well. Doctors who can't will lose money. Talk about cost control, everybody wants it, just not with their checks.

Then the best minds won't go into medicine -- that's the whole essence of capitalism. Do you NOT want the best minds/products/companies in medicine?

Why would any individual go into debt six figures and spend over a decade in school if they're going to be owned by the government??? (Oh wait, the Marxist Kenyan has their schooling covered too! :doh1)

I don't want the "most compassionate" moron treating me...I want THE BEST AND BRIGHTEST.

There aren't doctors in these socialist countries in the true sense, they just do what some bureaucrat tells them to, which is why their SUCCESS RATE for treating diseases SUCKS. And any progress they do make is piggy backing off American innovation.

There's no logic in the liberal mind -- ZERO. 2938u4ji23
 

tank

EOG Dedicated
Re: America, the Grim truth

Doctors will receive a base pay and bonuses for keeping people well, oh damn what an idea, doctor actually trying to patients well. Doctors who can't will lose money. Talk about cost control, everybody wants it, just not with their checks.
What if the patient is bound and determined to smoke, drink or eat bad fatty foods?That is not the doctors fault but he will be the one paying for it under this scenario.
 
Re: America, the Grim truth



What parts of the system do you plan to cut which will improve quality AND cut costs, genius?

You going to slash doctor salaries and swoop in and steal their productivity like a good little dictator?

Duuuuuuhhhhhh.....I'm a liberal.....duhhhhhhhh....let's have single payer so all the freeloaders can have access...duhhhhhhhh...let's make the system more fair by giving good doctors candy bars like 7 year olds....duhhhhhh...that'll work...duhhhhhhh...
 
Re: America, the Grim truth

What if the patient is bound and determined to smoke, drink or eat bad fatty foods?That is not the doctors fault but he will be the one paying for it under this scenario.

Or engage in dangerous behavior like....oh, I don't know...impact sports such as football, basketball and hockey?

Well, the government will have to control/regulate those areas of our lives too -- all in the name of "the common good". 2938u4ji23

 

Spytheweb

EOG Addicted
Re: America, the Grim truth

What if the patient is bound and determined to smoke, drink or eat bad fatty foods?That is not the doctors fault but he will be the one paying for it under this scenario.

There will be people like this, there will also be a lot of people who want to stay well too.

By paying for a doctor's schooling, they're already ahead. If he can improve 2/3 of his patients he's that much more ahead.
 

Spytheweb

EOG Addicted
Re: America, the Grim truth

Then the best minds won't go into medicine -- that's the whole essence of capitalism. Do you NOT want the best minds/products/companies in medicine?

Why would any individual go into debt six figures and spend over a decade in school if they're going to be owned by the government??? (Oh wait, the Marxist Kenyan has their schooling covered too! :doh1)

I don't want the "most compassionate" moron treating me...I want THE BEST AND BRIGHTEST.

There aren't doctors in these socialist countries in the true sense, they just do what some bureaucrat tells them to, which is why their SUCCESS RATE for treating diseases SUCKS. And any progress they do make is piggy backing off American innovation.

There's no logic in the liberal mind -- ZERO. 2938u4ji23

If they go into medicine to get rich, maybe they'll be better off working on wall street or becoming a lobbyist or congressman. Believe it or not there are still people who become doctors who want to help people.

If America were to disappear from the face of the earth tomorrow, the world will get along just fine.

Besides how can America's economy compete with countries who have a universal health system, healthier and more productive employees, but who cares as long as US doctors/hospitals, insurance and drug companies are making a mint.
 

Spytheweb

EOG Addicted
Re: America, the Grim truth

"Medical Costs Are Very Cheap in Thailand - The cost of medications and doctor's visits in Thailand are very inexpensive. I recently had a chest x-ray, blood tests for diabetes, thyroid and sundry other ills, an EKG and two doctor's visits. The grand total? Less than $60 for everything and this at one of the top hospitals in Bangkok. Medication is inexpensive and much of it is available over the counter without a doctor's prescription, which cuts costs even more. Doctors too usually speak excellent English. The healthcare in most of Thailand too is as good, if not better, than in the west as many of the doctors here are western-educated and trained. As they get older, many retirees worry about burgeoning health costs - something that's not even a minor concern in Thailand."

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1752226/why_many_retirees_retire_to_thailand.html?cat=12
 
Re: America, the Grim truth

If they go into medicine to get rich, maybe they'll be better off working on wall street or becoming a lobbyist or congressman. Believe it or not there are still people who become doctors who want to help people.

If America were to disappear from the face of the earth tomorrow, the world will get along just fine.

Besides how can America's economy compete with countries who have a universal health system, healthier and more productive employees, but who cares as long as US doctors/hospitals, insurance and drug companies are making a mint.

:doh1







 
Re: America, the Grim truth

Take away the evil free market health care system and survival rates will plummet the world over because every current parasitic socialist system feeds off American innovation and ingenuity.

In a capitalist system, the best technologies always trickle down the economic food chain -- why poor people in the US own smart phones. With socialism it's the opposite -- poverty trickles up contaminating everything until everyone is equally miserable.

Spytheweb and today's radical left believe in and promote a communist society. 2938u4ji23
 
Re: America, the Grim truth

Why We Don't Need Socialized Medicine

Why we don't need economic illiterates trivializing the dangers of socialized medicine and spouting abject nonsense on YouTube.

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tank

EOG Dedicated
Re: America, the Grim truth

And the American pharma companies are no better !They get most of their new drugs from the NIH which is taxpayer funded .Yes they rely on the Socialistic system of the good old Government.
<object data="http://184.73.187.38/media/static/assets/swf/clarendon-bt-bold.swf" name="sIFR_replacement_0" id="sIFR_replacement_0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" class="sIFR-flash" width="670" height="37">




</object>http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2004/jul/15/the-truth-about-the-drug-companies/




But while the rhetoric is stirring, it has very little to do with reality. First, research and development (R&D) is a relatively small part of the budgets of the big drug companies?dwarfed by their vast expenditures on marketing and administration, and smaller even than profits. In fact, year after year, for over two decades, this industry has been far and away the most profitable in the United States. (In 2003, for the first time, the industry lost its first-place position, coming in third, behind ?mining, crude oil production,? and ?commercial banks.?) The prices drug companies charge have little relationship to the costs of making the drugs and could be cut dramatically without coming anywhere close to threatening R&D.
Second, the pharmaceutical industry is not especially innovative. As hard as it is to believe, only a handful of truly important drugs have been brought to market in recent years, and they were mostly based on taxpayer-funded research at academic institutions, small biotechnology companies, or the National Institutes of Health (NIH).
 

tank

EOG Dedicated
Re: America, the Grim truth

http://www.cptech.org/ip/health/econ/bg04051998.html

Working in a public laboratory, backed by $3.2 million in federal grants, Dr. Barry S. Coller turned a scientific hunch into a "super aspirin" and turned himself into a Park Avenue multimillionaire.
Coller's royalties from the sale of ReoPro, an intravenous drug that prevents blood clotting after angioplasty, are expected to hit $6.4 million by summer. The drug manufacturer, analysts say, will make a 28 percent profit. Heart patients get a new treatment. But the taxpayers who underwrote the development of ReoPro and scores of other new drugs get next to nothing.
Some, like Eric Harrington, can't even afford the new drugs.
To control Harrington's multiple sclerosis, his doctor would like to prescribe Avonex, a drug developed by Cambridge-based Biogen and tested with $4.6 million in government aid. But Biogen charges more than $11,000 for a year's supply. And Harrington, a maintenance foreman with no prescription coverage, ! doesn't have $900 a month for medicine.
"They take my tax dollars, it benefits the companies and I don't get any use out of it," said Harrington of Arlington.
Tracking government-funded research to develop new treatments, a Spotlight team investigation revealed a billion-dollar taxpayers' subsidy for pharmaceutical companies already awash in profits. The investigation also documented a pattern of scientists and universities cashing in on government-funded inventions.
The government spending helps bring new drugs to the public. But taxpayers often end up paying onerous prices at the pharmacy for medicine their tax dollars helped to create.
Now Congress is preparing to increase the stakes by doubling the budget for the National Institutes of Health, the main dispenser of grants for medical research. Scientists and drug companies are cheering, since NIH money comes with few obligations, like a bank loan that never comes due. In fact, NIH onl! y loosely tracks its spending on new drug development and rarely asks for any return of taxpayers' seed money.
 
Re: America, the Grim truth

And the American pharma companies are no better !They get most of their new drugs from the NIH which is taxpayer funded .Yes they rely on the Socialistic system of the good old Government.

It costs about 800 million to bring a new drug into the marketplace.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_development

A measly few million here or there in govt grants won't even cover administration costs.

If what you claim were true, then all these socialists countries would be popping out more pills than 'Manny' on an avg. Saturday leading the world innovation and ingenuity. Yet we know r&d in these socialist cesspools is in the toilet because the evil PROFIT motive has been driven out of the system.

No PROFITS = no progress.

It's that simple.

Not that we would expect a "community organizer" to understand how the REAL world works.

Where do you get this left wing nonsense? Same sources that told you GM paid back their loan? :+textinb3
 

tank

EOG Dedicated
Re: America, the Grim truth

It costs about 800 million to bring a new drug into the marketplace.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_development

A measly few million here or there in govt grants won't even cover administration costs.

If what you claim were true, then all these socialists countries would be popping out more pills than 'Manny' on an avg. Saturday leading the world innovation and ingenuity. Yet we know r&d in these socialist cesspools is in the toilet because the evil PROFIT motive has been driven out of the system.

No PROFITS = no progress.

It's that simple.

Not that we would expect a "community organizer" to understand how the REAL world works.

Where do you get this left wing nonsense? Same sources that told you GM paid back their loan? :+textinb3
It is not just grants at all.I am talking about the new drugs themselves. Over half come from NIH and then they sell the patents for pennies on the dollar to the pharma companies .Pharma spends more money on advertising than R&D why is that??Where do you get your corporate nonsense from??It cannot be from the single payer system you enjoy in Canada.:+textinb3
 
Re: America, the Grim truth



Health reform threatens to cram already overwhelmed emergency rooms

By Jay Heflin - 05/15/10 12:20 PM ET
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The new healthcare law will pack 32 million newly insured people into emergency rooms already crammed beyond capacity, according to experts on healthcare facilities.

A chief aim of the new healthcare law was to take the pressure off emergency rooms by mandating that people either have insurance coverage. The idea was that if people have insurance, they will go to a doctor rather than putting off care until they faced an emergency.

People who build hospitals, however, say newly insured people will still go to emergency rooms for primary care because they don’t have a doctor.

“Everybody expected that one of the initial impacts of reform would be less pressure on emergency departments; it’s going to be exactly the opposite over the next four to eight years,” said Rich Dallam, a healthcare partner at the architectural firm NBBJ, which designs healthcare facilities.

“We don’t have the primary care infrastructure in place in America to cover the need. Our clients are looking at and preparing for more emergency department volume, not less,” he said.

Some Democrats agree with this assessment.

Rep. Jim McDermott (D-Wash.) suspects the fallout that occurred in Massachusetts’ emergency rooms could happen nationwide after health reform kicks in.

Massachusetts in 2006 created near-universal coverage for residents, which was supposed to ease the traffic in hospital emergency rooms.
But a recent poll by the American College of Emergency Physicians found that nearly two-thirds of the state’s residents say emergency department wait times have either increased or remained the same.

A February 2010 report by The Council of State Governments found that wait times had not abated since the law took effect.

“That is not an unrealistic question about what’s going to happen in the next four years as you bring all these people on; who are they going to see?” McDermott said.

The Washington congressman tried to include a provision in the healthcare bill he thought would increase the number of doctors.

McDermott’s legislation would have required the government to pay for students’ medical education in return for students serving four years as a primary care physician. The measure did not make it on the final bill that eventually became law.

McDermott stressed that creating a “whole new cadre of doctors” needs to begin now to meet the rising need from patients in the future.

While the measure wouldn’t prevent the infrastructure crunch, it would have provided new doctors for people seeking care.

Richard Foster, Chief Actuary at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, told The Hill that the current dearth of primary care physicians could lead to greater stress on hospital emergency rooms.

“The supply of doctors can’t be increased very quickly – there’s a time lag,” he said, adding, “Is the last resort to newly covered people the emergency room? I would say that is a possibility, but I wouldn’t say anybody has a very good handle on exactly how much of an infrastructure problem there will be or exactly how it might work out.”

The Academy of Architecture for Health predicts hospitals will need at least $2 trillion over the next 20 years to meet the coming demand.

“As more people have access, you have to deal with the increased capacity,” said Andrew Goldberg, senior director of federal relations at the American Institute of Architects. “At the moment there is not a lot of building going on because of the economy and a lot of health care facilities can’t get the financing. We’ve been working on the Hill to try to address that issue.”

The group has called on Congress to beef-up bonding authorities and expand energy efficient tax breaks for professional buildings. The vehicle targeted is the green energy legislation making its way through the House Ways and Means Committee and Senate Finance.

Dan Noble, a principal at the Dallas-based architecture firm HKS Inc., which also specializes in designing health care facilities, believes the only remedy to meet the coming demand on hospitals is to start projects immediately.

“We would have to get very busy soon,” he said. “It would take a fairly aggressive building campaign for the next decade.”

Source:
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobby...-to-overwhelm-already-crammed-emergency-rooms
 
Re: America, the Grim truth

Excellent news, Msr Lanquel! thanks for the post

Looks like the U.S. hospital industry will be a booming source for new construction, new expansion, new jobs and best of all - increased ease of access for tens of millions of Americans who formerly would have been abandoned to see their health conditions deteriorate and fester into far more costly problems for the community at large

Pretty much our first Quadruple Win post in quite some time.

Thanks again for weighing in from EOG's Toronto-based station!
 
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