Anyone know if Dave Cokin has a Lifetime Record Anywhere?

[winkyduck]

Well check out Cokin's line movement on his first 3 picks. These closing lines are guestimattes as to where Pinny closed using Donbest's standard CRIS closing line:

Milw +125 closed +111
Phil -145 closed -154
Min -115 right now -126

Cokin you Rock!!!! Yeah baby!!!! You are the MAN!!!

Joeflex

you should see what happens around 11:55P (PDT) sunday nights during CFB season when he gives out 3 pix for the Saturday games. by the time most people wake up and hear them the lines have move a point or two

and when you tune in on sunday nights you are more likely to hear Dave bitch about a brutal beat he suffered than the winners he had that day

i've known him for about 15 years and can't say anything bad about him and you all know what i do to scamdicappers and those with questionable morals - something dave will never be considered

 

[THE SHRINK]

As far as the monitoring service that Mr. Cokin said review him in the 1980's and 1990's, AADSS does not exist anymore. That's unfortunate.

So all there is to go on is anecdotal advice and a couple hundred picks from radio which likely represent a fraction of a percent of his total picks. Even some of the people I respect as sharp seem to value Cokin's opinions, but IMO that's really not enough.

Resumes and titles don't make great cappers. Winning picks over many trials do and as far as Cokin is concerned, we're in the great unknown of whether he has these or not. It is disappointing to see once again, the equivalent of the dog ate my records.

Joeflex

Joe,

Dave has already offered more to this forum in a couple of days than you have in 7 months!

I don't want to get into a game of mental masturbation with you, because it appears to me that's your forte, but not mine here on this thread...

All I ask is that you RESPECT our posters, and I believe EOG is a lot stronger having Professionals like Cokin on here to take the time and share picks...

Suggesting that the dog ate his record is silly...

And does it REALLY matter if he hit 48% or 53% twenty years ago, 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 1 year ago?

I think not...

I like his reasoning, the line moves (as you sarcastically pointed out), and some of the most respected people I know in this biz have a lot of admiration for Dave...

P.S.

Dave did post at RX, but left because of posts like yours. I PROMISED him things would be different here and he promised me he wouldn't tout..

Has he?

THE SHRINK

 

[Chuck Luck]

CAN I GET AN

AMEN

"POST OF THE YEAR"
​

KEN, GREAT TO SEE HOW FAR YOU HAVE GROWN ANOTHER BABY. GREAT JOB!​

 

[THE SHRINK]

Thanks Chuck,

It's good to see you here again...

Gawd, how the time has flown...

Hope you are doing well, my friend...

Ken

 

[Chuck Luck]

what was it like 1994 when we had "The Winners Circle" on AOL???

SOMETHING LIKE THAT... YOU ARE RIGHT MY FRIEND, TIME IS RUNNING AWAY WITH OR WITHOUT US...

GREAT SITE... LOVE IT AND THE PEOPLE HERE...

AND HEY... DAVE COKIN... I MEAN CAN IT GET ANY BETTER????

NAH

 

[farbror]

Maybe my take on this topic already has been put forward by someone else. I didn't have the energy to read the whole thread.

Life Time Records are important but I find other pieces of information to be even more important.

1. I think THE SHRINK inviteted/hired DC and since I think THE SHRINK is doing excellent stuff here at EOG the cravings for Life Time Records decreases.
2. Also I think reading DC's first write-ups has been most interesting. As long as he keeps his pen that sharp I will keep reading them.

I do not think that his EOG results has biased me in any way and you cannot blame DC for the fact that yours truly stubbornly bet the other side twice.

Reading the write-ups, betting some No-nos and trying to figure out what went wrong has been very educational.

 

[Scooter]

Using Cokin's car metaphor -

If someone told me that they make the best car, would I be out of line to want to look at the safety record, compared to other makes and models?
Would I be out of line to compare the repair record to other makes and models?

If I got answers such as "The manufacturer of this car is a great guy"; "What's the difference what the repair and safety record has been for years?"; "How good are the cars you make?" ; etc., would I have cause for concern?


Cokin sells picks for a living. He's been doing this for years.

How in the world can asking for what his documented record is be considered in any way out of line?

If I sold picks for a living and had a great record and a company was monitoring/verifying my great record, you can be sure that if that company went out of business I would keep a copy of that record.
And I'd have the copy notarized or authenticated in some way so that there could be no doubt in the future as to what my great record is.

Cokin's reasoning on his picks may prove insightful.
But if you were to discover that the same reasoning had led to a less than breakeven record over the last 10 or 15 or 20 years - wouldn't that be meaningful?

Instead of being thanked for bringing up a relevant topic, 99% of the posters here as well as the owner castigate Joeflex.

Someone on another forum posted an excellent term for the prevailing attitudes here - "willful ignorance".

 

[Joeflex]

Hello Shrink,

Your post is misguided in so many ways.

"All I ask is that you RESPECT our posters"

I do respect Cokin, not sure where I was disrespectful. Am I disrespectful simply for asking some questions that I'd like to know the answer to?

"Suggesting that the dog ate his record is silly..."

He does not have a record and as a professional for at least 20 years in this industry, he should. You would think that he would have some record of that and I expressed my disappointment that he did not.

"And does it REALLY matter if he hit 48% or 53% twenty years ago, 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 1 year ago?"

If you don't think a record really matters when deciding whether to follow someone, that is just ridiculous and I'm not sure what to say to that.

"the line moves (as you sarcastically pointed out)"

I was complimenting Cokin on the line moves. The cheers afterwards were just for fun but I was giving him props.

"Dave did post at RX, but left because of posts like yours"

I'm just asking one question- that's all. Cokin has been around the industry for at least 20 years and you don't think he can take 1 question from me? I asked him respectfully and let him know I was disappointed with the answer. I balanced the negative with the good things about him. I said how many sharps I know respect him and even commended his line movement on all 3 of his picks. The beauty of these forums is I can say whatever I want to say. I can't do that? I don't know why he left, but I don't think it would be reasonable to leave because of posts like mine at all, and if he did well there's nothing I can do if someone is unreasonable.

You were way offbase here, Shrink.

Joeflex

 

[Joeflex]

Scooter-

I wholeheartedly concur with everything. I like what you did with the analogy and its entirely true.

Its all politics. The masses are scared shitless they're not going to get their one pick a day from Mr. Cokin. Shrink is terrified he's not going to get his hits to this site.

All because of one simple question- "What is your record, Mr. Cokin?" Everyone needs to relax. Nothing wrong with a little discussion.

Joeflex

 

[Chuck Luck]

GUYS THE BOTTOM LINE IS HE WINS AND HE LOSES JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE... ONLY DIFFERENCE IS HE WINS MORE THAN HE LOSES AND HE IS POSTING HIS PLAYS HERE..

WOULD IT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE IF HE HAD HIT 61% OVER THE LAST 20+ YEARS OR HE HAD HIT 51%????

REALLY... LET'S WHAT AND SEE HOW HE DOES NOW. I COULD REALLY GIVE A $HIT HOW HE DID YESTERDAY. I NEED TO WIN TODAY.

THANKS TO THE BOSSMAN TO SEE THE VALUE IN ALLOWING AND/OR PAYING SOMEONE LIKE DAVE TO POST HERE.

NOW... LET'S MAKE SOME MONEY:+whipping JUST LOVE THAT LITTLE DUDE...

 

[Scooter]

Posts like that of Chuck Luck above demonstrate why touts as well as bookmakers will always be able to make a good living.


" I COULD REALLY GIVE A $HIT HOW HE DID YESTERDAY. I NEED TO WIN TODAY."

If sportsbooks required players to demonstrate an IQ of at least room temperature, they wouldn't have many customers.

 

[Scooter]

Dave Cokin - "As for what my complete record is from 1981-2006, I haven't got the slightest idea."

Not too impressive, Dave.


"I can only tell you that I've been fortunate enough to grind out consistent profits."

As a tout, I believe it. You work for the biggest tout boiler room in existence.
As a bettor, I doubt it. Has anyone here who plays in Vegas ever seen Cokin place a bet?

But if you had a documented winning record, we would at least know that if you did bet your own picks, you would have ground out consistent profits.

 

[Dave Cokin]

Dave Cokin - Has anyone here who plays in Vegas ever seen Cokin place a bet?

But if you had a documented winning record, we would at least know that if you did bet your own picks, you would have ground out consistent profits.

Scooter...you're right, I haven't made a bet in Las Vegas in years. Perhaps you haven't heard, but there are actually ways that a person can now wager on a sporting event using this new invention called the Internet.

It's pretty cool, Scooter. You don't need to fight traffic, you don't need to set yourself up as a mark for some thief who might know you're carrying a nice wad of green around, you never have to search for a parking space that's in the same zip code as the sports book you're visiting, and you can bet almost anytime you want. And you might even save some vig along the way.

(Seriously, unless someone is part of a team effort where they can effectively cover the local books on a continuous basis, I can't see why anyone betting seriously would do so in Las Vegas.)

 

[Joe]

In all candidness, I am not sure I believe Dave when he says that he does not know what his record is.

I am sure that if he were stupid enough to post it someone would dig through it year-by-year, day by day and come up with a loss mistakenly credited as a win in 1992 and blast the shit out of him for eternity because of it.

However, one is missing the big picture.

That being - Dave posts.

People ask him questions.

He responds.

Readers have information.

It is their choice as to what to do with it.

Play it, fade it, ignore it.

What else do you need?

If you are concerned about whether he does in fact win, then wait and see how he does here. It looks like he will be here for a while, plenty of time to evaluate.

 

[K-ONE]

Touts are like dogshit on our lawn.

Ken might put daisys on the piles but they still smell like crap.

Good ole boy network ...

Forums+Books+Touts, that equation is profitable one.

-K1

 

[THE SHRINK]

Joeflex,

I was simply stating my opinion, just like you did.

If I offended you, I apologize...

Have a great weekend...:cheers

Ken

 

[ComptrBob]

Joe,

And does it REALLY matter if he hit 48% or 53% twenty years ago, 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 1 year ago?

I think not...

THE SHRINK

I find this hopelessly disingenuous.

I like Scooter's car analogy so let's draw another.

Let's say you're going to invest $100,000 in the stock market using a mutual fund manager. Further, let's say you have 3 candidates all with 20 years experience. Manager A's fund has a 20 year return of -2%, a 10 year return of -7% and a 1 year return of +3%, all completed documented. Manager B has a 20 year return of 17%, a 10 year return of 25% and a 1 year return of 19%, all completely documented.

Manager C says he has no idea what his complete returns have been, but he's "pretty confident that he can return a profit". Manager C has several third party references who "admire" him, but also really have no idea what his overall stock market performance has been. Recently, Manager C has 3 nice stock write-ups that have been up over the last 3 days.

So, of course, since a past 20 year documented track record means nothing, you can't tell the difference between Manager A and Manager B, and so you would select Manager C.

Good luck.

 

[Jimmy Hoffa]

OPTIONS

A) Play Dave's picks.
B) Fade Dave's picks.
C) Whine.

Too many chosing option C here...

 

[Brutus]

I wasn't going to get involved in this because I have only been a member for a day and have single digit posts. However, now that I look at it, the two people trying to stir it up have less than 20 posts themselves.


99.9% of the people on this site are grateful that Dave decided to post here and look forward to his opinions.

Joeflex had an honest question (although I am not sure he wasn't just wanting to stir it up). Dave answered the question and said he is done with the topic after that answer. It has also been stated that he left the RX because of this crap. So instead of just accepting his answer and respecting the fact that he said he didn't want to get into all this you two guys have to keep pushing.

Just drop the subject for the 99% of us that want him to stick around.

 

[OMNIVOROUS FROG]

What a polarizing thread? Lot's of analogies, still looking for one that fits. Let me tell you where a lifetime record will get you. No analogy needed outside of sports betting. Handicapper unknown has a 60% lifetime record at the NFL. He has maintained that for 20+ years. Maybe had a few losing years in those 20, but overall a winner, lifetime. So you expect that to continue. So does the capper. But surprise, the NFL does a violent swing, and all of the spots the lifetime winning capper used to win at lose. All of the home dogs, most of the dogs for that matter. All of the chalky square favorite teams cash. But lifetime winning capper just sticks with his methods, tried and true. And he loses, and loses, and loses. It never goes back to the good old dog days. Just a bad year, but still winning lifetime. Then year two, even worse. More chalk, more overs, and all of the prime time games the public teams win. They win and cover. Hey we just had two horrible sub 30% years with a lifetime winner?

What happened? Lifetime records amount to squat in this what have you done for me lately business. Games, rules, teams, even the leagues themselves change over time. Some cappers adapt, and win today, some can't. If I was weighting records, I would value the capper that is winning right now, with fundamentally sound plays, over any lifetime achievements. I am going past 30 years doing this, and seen so many come and go. The best cappers and linemakers to me existed back in the handwritten ticket days. There was no internet, no widely available information. No offshore, no computers, nothing. I had more of an edge in the Martin line days, with his solid lines, than I could ever get today.

This business is not the stock market, or selling cars. It is not about a resume with 20 years of experience. It is what have you done for me lately. He is now 3-0, have all been legit wins with very nice writeups and analysis. What bearing would any past record have on his output right now, today? None. Just like the 3-0. Win another one Dave, or this fickle bunch will turn on you faster than you can say, I knew he was a scammer.


Best Wishes...OF :cheers



Better take a long look at what The Shrink has assembled here in the bases forum. When you can make choices based on input from quality handicappers, and pay nothing, you should appreciate the gift.

 

[K-ONE]

99.9% of the people on this site are grateful that Dave decided to post here and look forward to his opinions.

Who the fuck died and left you the spokesperson for 99.9% of this forum?

 

[OMNIVOROUS FROG]

Who the fuck died and left you the spokesperson for 99.9% of this forum?

Must admit that was a reach, if not a reach around. Always good to have you keep things real kissee. From my perspective the percentages were not that high. Still, he does bring experience and quality analysis to the forum, and that can and has benefitted many. In this day and age of info, always nice to get as many perspectives and as much info as possible.

I'm still fading Pedro.


Best Wishes...OF :cheers

 

[ComptrBob]

.. As for the varying levels of service, this industry is no different than every service-oriented industry in the business world. That's why there are Wal-Marts and that's why there are Sax Fifth Avenues. That's why there are Sizzzlers and Ruth's Chris Steak Houses. That's why every car manufacturer has all different types of cars with different price tags.

Dave,

You probably didn't get the memo, but didn't you know that there are no analogies allowed here. The sports business is completely unique and transcendent so references to other businesses are completely inappropriate.

So speaks the eog "police" ... LOL

 

[winkyduck]

dave does hold 1 lifetime record

the longest wearing of a hat WITHOUT taking it off

i put it at -200 he keeps it on in the shower (NOT that i want pix to see how right/wrong i am) and in bed (ditto the shower part)

i hear God came back down to earth last week and the FIRST question he asked was

"Is Cokin still wearing his hat?"

 

[OMNIVOROUS FROG]

When you are competing against a million other guys doing the same thing, you need a trademark. So you glue a goofy French beret to your head. Next you need a clever tag line, smokin Dave Cokin. Then get your photo with goofy hat and tagline plastered on every page of a Jim Fiest free sked. Marketing 101, do or say something they can remember you by. What are the first two things said here, still wearing the hat, and the smokin tag. Guess it is effective.


Best Wishes...OF :cheers

 

[Joeflex]

To O. Frog:

Another specious analogy alert. You're saying that 20 years of winning capping experience is useless because things can change abruptly and that capper will be stuck in an old paradigm. But I think you've set up a false dichotomy between 1) old, winning ways that used to work and 2) new, dynamic circumstances where the old, winning ways are useless. It seems like you're saying that the more experience the capper has, the more set in his ways and, paradoxically, the more likely he is to become a loser in the future. But doesn't 20 years of winning experience demonstrate that this capper has shown he can change paradigms and win under evolving circumstances? To me it seems obvious. To you that 20 years is meaningless but rather 3 paragraph-long writeups are more conclusive evidence.

Also, for some reason you reject experience as meaningful for someone else ("lifetime records amount to squat") but then for you, it is very meaningful ("I am going past 30 years doing this, and seen so many come and go")(i.e. you have the ability to adapt and succeed but others can not).

Anyway, its clear the Cokin records are going to be impossible to get so all that is left now is to argue whether or not records have any relevance to whether or not to follow a capper. I think Comptr Bob's analogy is totally onpoint with the 3 fund managers and am really very perplexed that we can even be having this debate. But its not a true academic debate, there are politics involved so it really can't go anywhere good on this forum.

Joeflex

 

[Chuck Luck]

ALL I WAS TRYING TO SAY IS THIS.........

THIS IS A SPORTS FORUM....

A PLACE FOR PEOPLE TO POST THIER OPINIONS AND INFORMATION...

LIVE AND LET LIVE.....:cheers



MANY FORUMS NOW HAVE GOOTEN SO BIG THAT THEY FEEL LIKE THEY NEED TO TELL PEOPLE WHAT TO POST AND WHEN TO DO IT......

I HAVE A VERY GOOD FRIEND THAT WENT TO KEN'S LAST BASH THE OTHER PLACE HAD AND HE ALWAYS TELLS ME THAT HE WOULD NEVER EVER POST ANYTHING BECAUSE YOU CAN NOT WIN.. IF YOU DO WHEN THEN SOMEONE WILL FIND SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR POST..

WE ALL NEED ADDITIONAL KNOWLEDGE...

HENCE... AMERICA.... A SPORTS FORUM..... FORUM.... WERE WE CAN ALL VOICE AN OPINION.. WHAT A CONCEPT... :+clueless

 

[lemonhead]

Exactly Chuck.

Did not realize you were one of the AOL crew from the old days until I saw your earlier post.

 

[THE SHRINK]

Lemonhead, Chuck & me....

Oh, those were the days my Friend...:+thumbs-2

1996?

 

[OMNIVOROUS FROG]

Sorry Joe, I think the fund manager analogy misses the mark in several areas. Will that long term experience come back and bite you, let's ask Fezzik. Maybe the NFL Challenge is forgotten. I could have been talking about myself also, as I stayed playing those dogs and unders. And paid for it dearly. You seem to want to argue your point into the ground, which I am not willing to do. If you are that hung up on lifetime records I suggest you find something else to do. If Cokin input is somewhat diminished in your eyes because he does not provide it, ask for a refund. Your argument is an amputee, it has no legs to stand on. You asked for something you did not get. You probably will not get. If it bothers you that much, avoid his picks and posts.


Best wishes...OF :cheers

 

[lemonhead]

Yes they were and we did some damn fine handicapping on that board too.

Its going to repeat itself right here on EOG in 2006.

 

[THE SHRINK]

OF,

I find it interesting that these guys didn't ask for Bucsfan's LIFETIME record and I'd bet a lot of money, he doesn't know it either...

Not very many of us do...

 

[ComptrBob]

Sorry Joe, I think the fund manager analogy misses the mark in several areas. Will that long term experience come back and bite you, let's ask Fezzik. Maybe the NFL Challenge is forgotten.

Talk about an inept analogy.

What's Fezzik got to do with Cokin? Different sports, different timeframes, different methodologies, pretty much different everything. Prior to last year, to my knowledge, Fezzik had only been documented for 4 years (thanks to SSB and JoeFlex incidentally), one of those years was a "freeroll" on SSB with forum picks.

Fezzik is pretty much like a daytrader, you might want to put some money on him, but he ain't no mutual fund manager.

 

[ComptrBob]

I find it interesting that these guys didn't ask for Bucsfan's LIFETIME record and I'd bet a lot of money, he doesn't know it either...

Not very many of us do...

Why do you think it is so easy to get a mutual fund manager's 1/5/10 year records?

Maybe because they actually can make money? ... LOL:+thumbs-2

 

[OMNIVOROUS FROG]

I really do not know of any capper that has a lifetime record? And if anyone did, so what? If he provided it, then it would be who monitored it. If you provided that it would be why didn't you have several sources monitor it. Some people miss the forest through the trees. It is not about lifetime accomplishments, I know no handicapper's that have earned that award, the Handicapping Lifetime Achievement Award. You bring what you have to the dinner table, hopefully those sitting in on the meal enjoy it, and it is beneficial for all. What is that lifetime winner starts off ofer 5? I doubt there would be much concern about that lifetime record. To be honest, that is the first time I have ever even seen someone asked that.



Best Wishes...OF :cheers

 

[OMNIVOROUS FROG]

Sure thing Bob, whatever you say. The fund managers is a better analogy. Mine was inept. Handicappers can't make any money, but fund managers can. If that is your attitude, why aren't you hanging out and posting at a stock market site instead of wasting your time with us degenerates? Don't see anyone forcing you to be here and unhappy about it.


Best Wishes...OF :cheers


I for one welcome Dave, Russ and anyone else willing to share their opinions.

 

[geeze]

Why do a couple of you think Dave owes you an explanation or anything at all, for that matter?

You can belabor the car analogy all you want, but it does not apply.

You are not BUYING a car, he is GIVING you the car.

If the dealer is GIVING you the car, would you insist that it be tuned up and have the oil changed before you would agree to accept it?

Enough blah,blah, blah from you nitpiking self-appointed hall-monitors.

Aside from the unrelenting arrogance, you commit the worst sin of all:

You are BORING.

 

[The General]

No matter the opinions, this has been a good thought provoking thread. It touches on several bases to do with things I have interest in.

 

[K-ONE]

I don't think it's a crime to ask someone who sells picks for a living to produce a reasonably long term tracked record at an unbiased third party reputable site.

One word for it is ...

Integrity

Another word for it is ...

Accountability

And finally, one for the road ...

Honesty

This is what happens to a touts face you ask about his record.

:yikess :yikess :yikess

 

[THE SHRINK]

I don't think it's a crime to ask someone who sells picks for a living to produce a reasonably long term tracked record at an unbiased third party reputable site.

One word for it is ...

Integrity

Another word for it is ...

Accountability

And finally, one for the road ...

Honesty

This is what happens to a touts face you ask about his record.

:yikess :yikess :yikess

Geeze,

The man isn't selling any picks here!

It's a shame you don't appreciate the FREEBIES he is offering..

THE SHRINK