Cain's 9-9-9 would raise taxes for low- to middle-income families

Re: Cain's 9-9-9 would raise taxes for low- to middle-income families

Soak the poor! Soak the poor! Make them pay their fair share! Almost 50% of the population pay no federal taxes!

"We need more bold ideas like this because it is specific and credible!"
-- Paul Ryan

"I love the 9-9-9 plan... I think its a great first step!"
-- Art Laffer (Reagan's economist)

Progressives who want the government to keep picking winners and losers with the tax code are deeply depressed.

Herman Cain now leads all other candidates, including the Kenyan himself. His bold, no-nonsense "problem solving" approach is resonating. :thumbsup
 

scrimmage

What you contemplate you imitate
Re: Cain's 9-9-9 would raise taxes for low- to middle-income families

Soak the poor! Soak the poor! Make them pay their fair share! Almost 50% of the population pay no federal taxes!

"We need more bold ideas like this because it is specific and credible!"
-- Paul Ryan

"I love the 9-9-9 plan... I think its a great first step!"
-- Art Laffer (Reagan's economist)

Progressives who want the government to keep picking winners and losers with the tax code are deeply depressed.

Herman Cain now leads all other candidates, including the Kenyan himself. His bold, no-nonsense "problem solving" approach is resonating. :thumbsup

Joe's always shifting his allegiance depending on how the prevailing Republican wind blows.
Herman Cain besides being a Burger King franchisee in Philly and the "Godfathers" pizza founder also was a director with the Federal Reserve in KC,so he's an insider fo sure.
When the time's right count on Cain being referenced to "Aquila" where he was on the board of directors.
His big concept "9-9-9" might at first sound appealing,but doesn't really add up for the average Americano.Corporations would love to pay only 9% legitimately without jumping through tax loophole hoops,and would pass the proceeds to the top tier across the board,the highest earners would realize a windfall paying only 9%,while the "regular Joe" bears the brunt of a 9% national sales tax.
Cain's being elevated to serve as an African-American counterpoint,to the one who's going to be in office another term in service to those who really run this country.
 
Re: Cain's 9-9-9 would raise taxes for low- to middle-income families

Club for Growth defends Herman Cain, 9-9-9 plan

By MAGGIE HABERMAN | 10/14/11 10:18 AM EDT

The anti-tax Club for Growth is rising to Herman Cain's defense amid growing scrutiny of - and questions about - his "9-9-9" economic plan:

“Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan is both pro-growth and a good starting point on the way to a flat or fair tax,” said Club president Chris Chocola. “Eliminating taxes on capital gains and dividends and combining that with huge rate cuts in both corporate and income taxes would create an unparalleled economic boom. 9-9-9 also eliminates the regulatory and compliance costs from the current tax code that suck billions out of the economy each year. It is an outline for a more prosperous and globally competitive America.”

“Those who argue against the sales tax component of 9-9-9 really miss the mark,” said Chocola. “Of course a future Congress could raise taxes above the 9% levels, but under our current monstrosity of a tax system, Congress already can raise taxes at any time and often has. It is on a path to do so yet again next year with the expiration of the Bush tax cuts. Herman Cain’s proposal might not be the perfect plan, but it is a truly revolutionary tax reform that would amount to a massive job creating tax cut on investments, savings, and income. Instead of tearing down ideas that would create economic growth and jobs, the other Republican presidential candidates should produce their own plans to achieve a flatter and more growth-oriented tax code. The American people deserve nothing less.”

The Club is neutral in the campaign, but this is the first time that Chocola has shored up the flank of a candidate under fire.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz1amF70XHN
 
Re: Cain's 9-9-9 would raise taxes for low- to middle-income families

Scrimmage, the class warfare is getting old. 2938u4ji23

Everyone benefits from Herman's 9-9-9 plan, except those who aren't paying their fair share and pulling their weight right now.

9-9-9 (which Cain says will eventually be phased into a flat or fair tax) would instantly make the United States the most desirable place on the planet to do business. Human and investment capital would pour into the economy like never before.

Good ideas, based on sound principles, cannot be stopped.

The Flea Party needs a shower! They stink!
 

roscoe

EOG Veteran
Re: Cain's 9-9-9 would raise taxes for low- to middle-income families

cain's fellow republicans are the ones knocking the plan!:pop:
 

scrimmage

What you contemplate you imitate
Re: Cain's 9-9-9 would raise taxes for low- to middle-income families

Herman Cain is now so identified with the numbers 9-9-9[BTW:did the idea originally come from Sim City 4?],he should consider pulling a Chad Johnson/Ochocinco type name change.
9-9-9 is a simple mantra to soothe and hypnotize the masses in a time of turmoil,as though the magic power of those numbers will make everything better.






 
Re: Cain's 9-9-9 would raise taxes for low- to middle-income families

Herman Cain besides being a Burger King franchisee in Philly and the "Godfathers" pizza founder also was a director with the Federal Reserve in KC,so he's an insider fo sure.

He is the perfect person for the nomination in that case. He will make sure almost everyone makes fast food level wages while the Federal Reserve and Wall Street elites keep the rest. That is just what they want, although Romney is just as corporate. To me, Cain sounds like a black version of Bush that will finish the destruction caused by the Bush administration. As bad as Obama is, things could be worse with the Republicans back in power.

 

scrimmage

What you contemplate you imitate
Re: Cain's 9-9-9 would raise taxes for low- to middle-income families


9-9-Nein! The Herman Cain Mutiny
By EDWARD MORRISSEY, The Fiscal Times
October 13 2011

9-9-9 is also transitional tax reform, not the end goal. On Cain?s website, he describes 9-9-9 as merely Phase 1 of tax reform. The final stage of Cain?s tax vision is the Fair Tax proposal pushed by Mike Huckabee in the 2008 election cycle, which is a consumption tax modeled on the European value-added tax (VAT). Cain developed the 9-9-9 plan to "unite the ?Flat Taxers? with the ?Fair Taxers.?"

The Fair Taxers conceded during the run-up to the 2008 presidential election that we might need to get to a flat tax as a transitional stage to a consumption tax, simply to stop the damage done from the overly complicated and politically skewed personal and corporate tax systems. However, that concession still retained the firewall against creating a new form of federal taxation while keeping the old one. The Fair Tax proposal in 2008 envisioned a trigger that could not get pulled until after the repeal of the 16th Amendment, the legal foundation for the federal income tax. Instead of retaining that firewall, 9-9-9 asks voters to trust that we can overlap a federal sales tax and an income tax while Congress eliminates the latter in Phase II of Cain?s plan.

Needless to say, even Herman Cain might not have the sales skills to sell: "I?m from the government, and I?m here to help." Conservatives have opposed a federal VAT for many years and became especially sensitive to it in 2009 when then-Speaker Nancy Pelosi began suggesting that it be implemented as a means to pay for the health-care reform bill popularly known as ObamaCare. That is why the repeal of the 16th Amendment as a trigger for the Fair Tax was so essential to keeping a federal sales tax from becoming an additional income stream for Washington.

It isn?t too difficult to imagine what could go wrong in Cain?s scenario. Congress could pass Phase I of Cain?s plan and never bother to move to Phase II. In fact, that seems more likely than not, since repealing the 16th Amendment would require ratification by two-thirds of each chamber of Congress and three-quarters of the states ? a process that could take more years than Cain would be President. Could we find a two-thirds majority willing to dump the progressive tax system ? which allows politicians to conduct social engineering as well as build in benefits for campaign donors ? in even the most reform-minded Congress?

If Cain could get Phase I passed, which would be no easy feat, Congress would then have the ability to raise rates in both streams, and still later revert to a progressive income-tax system with the middle "nine." That would mean we would return to the same problems we have now, except with a new sales tax that would arguably be regressive in its impact. Cain argues that the elimination of taxes on estates, payroll, capital gains, and repatriated profits would negate that impact, but most of those taxes don?t have a direct effect on working-class families the way a sales tax undoubtedly would.

Finally, without a specific constitutional amendment authorizing it, a federal sales tax on general purchases would get challenged by small-government federalists on principle. Unless the sale crosses state lines, it is difficult to see federal jurisdiction at the cash register for most transactions. Accepting that Congress can impose a sales tax on transactions at the local grocery store without a Constitutional amendment granting such authority would require conservatives to embrace a Wickard v Filburn philosophy of interstate commerce. Since a rejection of that philosophy is at the heart of conservative opposition to ObamaCare and its mandate, don?t expect conservatives to leap for joy at the thought of a new definition of interstate commerce that fits the final "nine" in Cain?s plan.

Excerpts from:
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2011/10/13/9-9-Nein-The-Herman-Cain-Mutiny.aspx#page1
 
Re: Cain's 9-9-9 would raise taxes for low- to middle-income families

<header class="entry-header" style="display: block; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: auto; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: auto; width: 584px; ">999 Calculator

One of the most common questions I see in the Herman Cain Facebook page or in online forums is, “How do I calculate how 9-9-9 will impact me?”Now, you can know for sure. Download the 9-9-9 Personal Tax Calculator that I built.

Either open it in Microsoft Excel, or create a free account in Google Docs to upload the form and use it there (for those of you who don’t own the software and don’t want to buy it).

Here are the highlights of Cain’s 999 Plan:

</header>
  • Eliminate personal and employer payroll taxes (FICA)
  • Eliminate the capital gains tax
  • Eliminate the death tax
  • Eliminate double taxation on dividends
  • Reduce the federal income on all Americans to only 9%
  • Implement a 9% national sales tax
Many people make the false assumption that a 9% income tax and new 9% national sales tax will make their effective tax rate 18%. But, this is far from the truth when you dive into the numbers, remove the taxes that 999 will remove, and then simplify the tax code. This becomes clear when you test your own numbers in the calculator.

http://raisingcain2012.wordpress.com/about/

 
Re: Cain's 9-9-9 would raise taxes for low- to middle-income families

9 responses to 9 false attacks on the 9-9-9 plan

October 16th, 2011 | Author: Herman Cain

Herman Cain

Do you know why candidates for office tend to be reluctant to propose detailed plans? Because they know the plans will be flyspecked and picked apart by just about everyone. Inviting criticism doesn?t help you to get votes.

But fear of criticism prevents you from conceiving solutions to problems. So even if avoidance of criticism helps in propelling you to an election victory, how are you supposed to effectively govern? How are you supposed to fix the problems you told everyone you were going to fix?

That?s why I?m happy to see so much criticism of the 9-9-9 plan I?ve proposed. It shows that people are thinking seriously about a substantive idea. When people stop obsessing over ?gaffes? and campaign strategy, and start honing in on fixing the country?s economic problems, we are getting somewhere.


This is not to say, of course, I?m going to leave poorly founded criticisms of the plan unanswered. Certain objections to the plan are circulating in the usual places, driven by the same kind of thinking that has left us with a stagnant economy, $14 trillion in debt and mounting entitlement obligations. These criticisms deserve responses, and here they are:

Claim 1: The 9 percent sales tax, which is one third of the formula, is regressive and hurts the poor, many of whom pay no federal income taxes now. Response: This claim ignores some important aspects of the plan. One is that we eliminate the 15 percent payroll tax, which allows for no deductions at all ? not even for charitable contributions. Some critics have argued that the poor still come out behind because employers pay much of the payroll tax. That demonstrates a basic misunderstanding about how compensation works in the business world. An employer decides to accept a certain cost-of-employment for each employee, and the employer?s share of the payroll tax is part of that cost. It comes out of your compensation whether you realize it or not. Also, a flat tax is not ? by definition ? a regressive tax.

Everyone pays the same rate. And it is not an added tax, but a replacement tax, whose total burden is determined by the consumer?s spending decisions.

Finally, the best way to help the poor is by spurring economic growth, which the current tax code will never do, and which the 9-9-9 plan is specifically designed to do.

Claim 2: Creating a new tax is merely setting the stage for higher rates on all taxes, as untrustworthy politicians will surely raise them. Response: First of all, that is not a criticism of the 9-9-9 plan. It is a criticism of politicians. If you don?t want the rates raised, don?t elect politicians who will raise them. Even if we repealed the 16[SUP]th[/SUP]Amendment and eliminated the income tax, as some demand in return for establishing a consumption tax, politicians could raise that rate too. What?s far more important here is the fact that the very simple, flat-rate structure of the 9-9-9 plan, which allows no deductions, loopholes or exemptions (with the exception of charitable contributions for the income tax), is a far more growth-friendly tax structure than the mangled mess of rates, taxes, exemptions and ill-conceived incentives we have today. It virtually eliminates the massive compliance costs of the current tax code, and it restrains the size of government.

By taking away the politicians? gateway drug of loopholes and deductions, we make it much more difficult for them to mess with the tax code. Having said that, any plan could be criticized for what it would look like if someone messed it up. The plan as I?m proposing it is a huge improvement over the status quo.

Claim 3: The plan redistributes wealth from the poor to the rich.
Response: It does no such thing. It is fair and neutral, taxing everything once and nothing twice. What?s more, we are getting ready to propose empowerment zones for economically struggling areas in which the rates will be even lower.

That will allow the poor to benefit even more from the plan than they already would.

Claim 4: The plan should have included a pre-bate to offset the sales tax.
Response: The last thing we need is to establish another federal entitlement, which the proposed pre-bate would quickly become. And it?s not necessary. The consumption tax replaces ones already embedded in prices. It?s not the prices that would increase, but the visibility of the taxes being paid. Right now, money is deducted from your paycheck and you never see it, so it doesn?t feel like you paid a tax. But you did. With the 9-9-9 plan, you feel it, and I suspect a good many people who clamor for higher taxes will start to feel differently as a result. But they won?t be paying more than before. They?ll just be more aware of it.


Claim 5: The business tax represents a new tax on labor.
Response: Paul Krugman of the New York Times makes this claim because we do not allow businesses to deduct the cost of labor from their taxable revenue. But the claim is bogus for several reasons. First, we are reducing the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 9 percent, so the tradeoff is a much lower rate paid on more of a company?s income.

Second, we treat capital and labor the same, both with the corporate tax and with the income tax. That is fair and neutral. What?s more, the current system taxes both capital investment by business and capital gains by individuals. That?s a double tax, and the 9-9-9 plan eliminates it.


Claim 6: The numbers don?t add up. The 9-9-9 tax wouldn?t generate enough revenue. Response: Several groups apparently ?ran the numbers? and came to this conclusion, including Bloomberg News and the Center for American Progress. Our report, which they do not appear to have read, demonstrates that it generates the same revenue as the current tax code, and our methodology is visible for anyone to see. Those who are making this claim should release their scoring so their methodology is as visible as ours.


Claim 7: The 9-9-9 plan is a really an 18 percent value-added tax plus a 9 percent income tax.
Response: That?s an argument? That some might be able to give it a disagreeable label?

What we have done is split the incidence of the tax so it is harder to evade ? since you?d have to dodge two taxes, not just one, to save the 18 percent. And by eliminating loopholes we?ve made that virtually impossible to do anyway. I don?t really care what people call it. What matters is how it works.


Claim 8: Some people (like Herman Cain) who may live off capital gains, would pay no income taxes. Is that fair?
Response: First, one of the benefits of the 9-9-9 plan is that, even if someone doesn?t pay much or any of one of the taxes, he or she is still likely affected by the other two.

More to the point, though, everyone has the same opportunity to work hard, earn capital and put that capital at risk. Whatever I have earned has come from hard work, good decisions (and some bad ones), a willingness to take risks and a constant honing of strategy. Nothing is stopping anyone else from doing the same thing. I realize many are being told there are no opportunities available to them, but that is not true and I wish people ? for their own sakes ? would stop listening to such doom and gloom and come to understand all the opportunity that truly exists, and learn how to access it.

Claim 9: It won?t pass.
Response: Politicians propose things that can pass. Problem-solvers propose things that can work. One of the worst instincts of Washington types is to judge an idea not on its substantive merits, but on their perception of its political viability. I do not underestimate the challenge of getting any good idea through Congress, but I have said all along that if you propose a good idea, and the people understand the idea, they will pressure Congress to pass it.

So there. I welcome the robust discussion and the many questions that are being raised about the 9-9-9 plan. Asked and answered. What else do you want to know?
 

scrimmage

What you contemplate you imitate
Re: Cain's 9-9-9 would raise taxes for low- to middle-income families

9 responses to 9 false attacks on the 9-9-9 plan

October 16th, 2011 | Author: Herman Cain

Herman Cain




Claim 1: The 9 percent sales tax, which is one third of the formula, is regressive and hurts the poor, many of whom pay no federal income taxes now. Response: This claim ignores some important aspects of the plan. One is that we eliminate the 15 percent payroll tax, which allows for no deductions at all ? not even for charitable contributions. Some critics have argued that the poor still come out behind because employers pay much of the payroll tax. That demonstrates a basic misunderstanding about how compensation works in the business world. An employer decides to accept a certain cost-of-employment for each employee, and the employer?s share of the payroll tax is part of that cost. It comes out of your compensation whether you realize it or not. Also, a flat tax is not ? by definition ? a regressive tax.

Everyone pays the same rate. And it is not an added tax, but a replacement tax, whose total burden is determined by the consumer?s spending decisions.

Finally, the best way to help the poor is by spurring economic growth, which the current tax code will never do, and which the 9-9-9 plan is specifically designed to do.


Of course Herman Cain would have 9 responses to critics of his 9-9-9-plan[he's probably got a 9" penis too,hence his obsession with the number],let's examine Claim 1:
Herman wants to eliminate the 15% payroll tax,so unmentioned is basically he's going to eliminate Social Security which that tax funds.Will Herman come clean on that part of 9-9-9 to the voting public,and how would this go over once the implications are understood?
 

scrimmage

What you contemplate you imitate
Re: Cain's 9-9-9 would raise taxes for low- to middle-income families



Joe C.;
You're locked into a Republican saviour mindset only,to wit Palin,Bachmann,Perry,now Cain's your choice,are any of these controlled puppets going to give anyone ultimate political satisfaction?
Dismiss "peak oil" at your own peril,a deeper understanding of how energy and contemporary society interact wouldn't give the average person much confidence in the ability of 1 person to continue "BAU"[business as usual],which is what they're expected to do indefinitely.
 
Top