Cloverleaf
EOG Dedicated
NEW FAD AMOUNG DEMOCRATS IS TO NAME THEIR KIDS JARHEAD.
HIDES THE FACT THEY ARE CUT AND RUN COWARDS.
HIDES THE FACT THEY ARE CUT AND RUN COWARDS.
DEMOS NAME KIDS JARHEAD
- Thread starter Cloverleaf
- Start date
Doc Mercer
EOG Master
Re: DEMOS NAME KIDS JARHEAD
"cut and running"
Ya mean like the Brits???
"cut and running"
Ya mean like the Brits???
Doc Mercer
EOG Master
Re: DEMOS NAME KIDS JARHEAD
Ya mean "Cut and Run" like the GOPers???
Who wanted to "cut and run" from Somalia?
My post this morning on Salon concerns the accusation voiced this weekend by Chris Wallace in his Fox News interview with President Clinton (a favorite accusation of neoconservatives) that Clinton "emboldened" Al Qaeda when he withdrew American troops from Somalia as soon as we suffered casualties, which (so the neoconservative mythology contends) led Osama bin Laden to believe that we were weak and could be defeated.
President Clinton's response was refreshingly aggressive because the premise of the question is so patently and outrageously false. Clinton responded: "They were all trying to get me to withdraw from Somalia in 1993 the next day after we were involved in 'Black Hawk down,' and I refused to do it and stayed six months and had an orderly transfer to the United Nations."
As I document in the Salon post, that defense, if anything, is a profound understatement, because it was Clinton (along with Senate Democrats like John Kerry) who wanted to stay in Somalia because a precipitous withdrawal would be panicky and weak, but it was primarily conservatives in Congress -- mostly Republican Senators and some conservative Southern Democrats -- who were demanding that American troops be withdrawn immediately, and were even threatening to cut off all funds for our troop deployment.
My analysis is set forth in the Salon post. Following are the full excerpts providing the factual support for that analysis:
GOP Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchinson, speech on the Senate floor October 6, 1993
I supported our original mission, which was humanitarian in nature and limited in scope. I can no longer support a continued United States presence in Somalia because the nature of the mission is now unrealistic and because the scope of our mission is now limitless. . . . Mr. President, it is no small feat for a superpower to accept setback on the world stage, but a step backward is sometimes the wisest course. I believe that withdrawal is now the more prudent option. GOP Sen. Dirk Kempthorne, speech on the Senate floor, October 6, 1993
Mr. President, the mission is accomplished in Somalia. The humanitarian aid has been delivered to those who were starving. The mission is not nation building, which is what now is being foisted upon the American people. The United States has no interest in the civil war in Somalia and as this young soldier told me, if the Somalis are now healthy enough to be fighting us, then it is absolutely time that we go home. . . It is time for the Senate of the United States to get on with the debate, to get on with the vote, and to get the American troops home.
GOP Minority Leader Sen. Robert Dole, Senate speech, October 5, 1993
I think it is clear to say from the meeting we had earlier with--I do not know how many Members were there--45, 50 Senators and half the House of Representatives, that the administration is going to be under great pressure to bring the actions in Somalia to a close. . . .GOP Sen. Jesse Helms, Senate floor speech October 6, 1993:
All of which means that I support the able Senator from West Virginia--who, by the way, was born in North Carolina--Senator Robert C. Byrd, and others in efforts to bring an end to this tragic situation. The United States did its best to deliver aid and assistance to the victims of chaos in Somalia as promised by George Bush last December.
But now we find ourselves involved there in a brutal war, in an urban environment, with the hands of our young soldiers tied behind their backs, under the command of a cumbersome U.N. bureaucracy, and fighting Somalia because we tried to extend helping hands to the starving people of that far-off land. Mr. President, the United States has no constitutional authority, as I see it, to sacrifice U.S. soldiers to Boutros-Ghali's vision of multilateral peacemaking. Again, I share the view of Senator Byrd that the time to get out is now.
President Clinton's speech, on October 8, 1993, arguing against withdrawal
And make no mistake about it, if we were to leave Somalia tomorrow, other nations would leave, too. Chaos would resume, the relief effort would stop and starvation soon would return. That knowledge has led us to continue our mission. . . .
If we leave them now, those embers will reignite into flames and people will die again. If we stay a short while longer and do the right things, we've got a reasonable chance of cooling off the embers and getting other firefighters to take our place. . .
So, now, we face a choice. Do we leave when the job gets tough or when the job is well done? Do we invite the return of mass suffering or do we leave in a way that gives the Somalis a decent chance to survive? Recently, Gen. Colin Powell said this about our choices in Somalia: "Because things get difficult, you don't cut and run. You work the problem and try to find a correct solution." . . .
So let us finish the work we set out to do. Let us demonstrate to the world, as generations of Americans have done before us, that when Americans take on a challenge, they do the job right.
Ya mean "Cut and Run" like the GOPers???
Who wanted to "cut and run" from Somalia?
My post this morning on Salon concerns the accusation voiced this weekend by Chris Wallace in his Fox News interview with President Clinton (a favorite accusation of neoconservatives) that Clinton "emboldened" Al Qaeda when he withdrew American troops from Somalia as soon as we suffered casualties, which (so the neoconservative mythology contends) led Osama bin Laden to believe that we were weak and could be defeated.
President Clinton's response was refreshingly aggressive because the premise of the question is so patently and outrageously false. Clinton responded: "They were all trying to get me to withdraw from Somalia in 1993 the next day after we were involved in 'Black Hawk down,' and I refused to do it and stayed six months and had an orderly transfer to the United Nations."
As I document in the Salon post, that defense, if anything, is a profound understatement, because it was Clinton (along with Senate Democrats like John Kerry) who wanted to stay in Somalia because a precipitous withdrawal would be panicky and weak, but it was primarily conservatives in Congress -- mostly Republican Senators and some conservative Southern Democrats -- who were demanding that American troops be withdrawn immediately, and were even threatening to cut off all funds for our troop deployment.
My analysis is set forth in the Salon post. Following are the full excerpts providing the factual support for that analysis:
GOP Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchinson, speech on the Senate floor October 6, 1993
I supported our original mission, which was humanitarian in nature and limited in scope. I can no longer support a continued United States presence in Somalia because the nature of the mission is now unrealistic and because the scope of our mission is now limitless. . . . Mr. President, it is no small feat for a superpower to accept setback on the world stage, but a step backward is sometimes the wisest course. I believe that withdrawal is now the more prudent option.
Mr. President, the mission is accomplished in Somalia. The humanitarian aid has been delivered to those who were starving. The mission is not nation building, which is what now is being foisted upon the American people. The United States has no interest in the civil war in Somalia and as this young soldier told me, if the Somalis are now healthy enough to be fighting us, then it is absolutely time that we go home. . . It is time for the Senate of the United States to get on with the debate, to get on with the vote, and to get the American troops home.
I think it is clear to say from the meeting we had earlier with--I do not know how many Members were there--45, 50 Senators and half the House of Representatives, that the administration is going to be under great pressure to bring the actions in Somalia to a close. . . .
All of which means that I support the able Senator from West Virginia--who, by the way, was born in North Carolina--Senator Robert C. Byrd, and others in efforts to bring an end to this tragic situation. The United States did its best to deliver aid and assistance to the victims of chaos in Somalia as promised by George Bush last December.
But now we find ourselves involved there in a brutal war, in an urban environment, with the hands of our young soldiers tied behind their backs, under the command of a cumbersome U.N. bureaucracy, and fighting Somalia because we tried to extend helping hands to the starving people of that far-off land. Mr. President, the United States has no constitutional authority, as I see it, to sacrifice U.S. soldiers to Boutros-Ghali's vision of multilateral peacemaking. Again, I share the view of Senator Byrd that the time to get out is now.
And make no mistake about it, if we were to leave Somalia tomorrow, other nations would leave, too. Chaos would resume, the relief effort would stop and starvation soon would return. That knowledge has led us to continue our mission. . . .
If we leave them now, those embers will reignite into flames and people will die again. If we stay a short while longer and do the right things, we've got a reasonable chance of cooling off the embers and getting other firefighters to take our place. . .
So, now, we face a choice. Do we leave when the job gets tough or when the job is well done? Do we invite the return of mass suffering or do we leave in a way that gives the Somalis a decent chance to survive? Recently, Gen. Colin Powell said this about our choices in Somalia: "Because things get difficult, you don't cut and run. You work the problem and try to find a correct solution." . . .
So let us finish the work we set out to do. Let us demonstrate to the world, as generations of Americans have done before us, that when Americans take on a challenge, they do the job right.
Elk Kid
EOG Member
Re: DEMOS NAME KIDS JARHEAD
Doc,
Let me get this whole thing straight then, you are for our troops to continue to stay in Iraq to finish the job and put the Iraqi people on the path to democracy? Because I would have sworn from most of your threads that you feel that we should pull out of there. You can't have an opinion that countermands itself or else we will all think you just straddle the fence and decide which side to fall on based purely on popular opinion or whim.
What you feel to be bad for the Republicans can't be then good for the Democrats. Pick a side and sit on it.
Doc,
Let me get this whole thing straight then, you are for our troops to continue to stay in Iraq to finish the job and put the Iraqi people on the path to democracy? Because I would have sworn from most of your threads that you feel that we should pull out of there. You can't have an opinion that countermands itself or else we will all think you just straddle the fence and decide which side to fall on based purely on popular opinion or whim.
What you feel to be bad for the Republicans can't be then good for the Democrats. Pick a side and sit on it.
ZZ CREAM
EOG Master
Re: DEMOS NAME KIDS JARHEAD
All of the good men and women killed after we won the war should be reason alone, to remove Bush and Co. and put them and their supporters in jail. Enough already....there's no valid reason to be there and ferment this idiotic Civil War.
ZZ CREAM
EOG Master
Re: DEMOS NAME KIDS JARHEAD
What about the traitors supporting more deaths of good US Soldiers for nothing?:dancefool :dancefool :dancefool You guys may not be ashamed.....but you should be!:dancefool :dancefool :dancefool
Doc Mercer
EOG Master
Re: DEMOS NAME KIDS JARHEAD
Elk: I posted to show how FOS the Right is
Iraq is a complete disaster and please explain to me why we are in
that country??
Democracy will never happen in Iraq ...
Bush Now Says What He Wouldn?t Say Before War: Iraq Had ?Nothing? To Do With 9/11
President Bush was in the midst of explaining how the attacks of 9/11 inspired his ?freedom agenda? and the attacks on Iraq until a reporter, Ken Herman of Cox News, interrupted to ask what Iraq had to do with 9/11. ?Nothing,? Bush defiantly answered.
Elk: I posted to show how FOS the Right is
Iraq is a complete disaster and please explain to me why we are in
that country??
Democracy will never happen in Iraq ...
Bush Now Says What He Wouldn?t Say Before War: Iraq Had ?Nothing? To Do With 9/11
President Bush was in the midst of explaining how the attacks of 9/11 inspired his ?freedom agenda? and the attacks on Iraq until a reporter, Ken Herman of Cox News, interrupted to ask what Iraq had to do with 9/11. ?Nothing,? Bush defiantly answered.
Re: DEMOS NAME KIDS JARHEAD
Dumbocrats just voted for a hard withdrawl in 1 year .... Just telegraph your intentions to the enemy.
God this group is a sorry ass bunch.
Glad to see Bush will Veto it.
God this group is a sorry ass bunch.
Glad to see Bush will Veto it.
Re: DEMOS NAME KIDS JARHEAD
I see the word traitor bantered on this sight very regularly and almost without exception out of context. Do you actually know what the word traitor means? Is this just some buzz word continually used to attempt to insight anger in those who have opposing views or do you actually think the President of the United States and any who have involved theselves in this war are traitors to America?
I see the word traitor bantered on this sight very regularly and almost without exception out of context. Do you actually know what the word traitor means? Is this just some buzz word continually used to attempt to insight anger in those who have opposing views or do you actually think the President of the United States and any who have involved theselves in this war are traitors to America?
ZZ CREAM
EOG Master
Re: DEMOS NAME KIDS JARHEAD
The President has the sworn duty to uphold and protect the citizens of the US.....knowingly allowing these same citizens to be killed in a war he created and could have ended after we won.......seems to qualify as traiterous behaviour ......in my book. What about you?:dancefool :dancefool :dancefool
Doc Mercer
EOG Master
Re: DEMOS NAME KIDS JARHEAD
Once Bush called the Constitution a "god damned piece of paper"
SEE YA ... ALL BETS ARE OFF !
Once Bush called the Constitution a "god damned piece of paper"
SEE YA ... ALL BETS ARE OFF !
Elk Kid
EOG Member
Re: DEMOS NAME KIDS JARHEAD
so then ZZ cream,
Based or your summarization, Abraham Lincoln Was a traitor because after we had won the civil war the union army was inflicted with casualties in the occupation and reorganization of the south. the President sometimes has to sacrifice the few for the good of the many. It is many times a more dificult decision than you or I would care to have to make. It is, however, much easier to sit here on the sidelines and Monday morning QB. People similar to your opinion were one of the biggest reasons that WWII was allowed to come about. Your whining about the fact that we, as one of the leaders in the modern world, are sometimes required to make and die for decisions that are not directly seen on our own soil, is troublesome to me. We cannot and shall not be an isolationist society. Whether or not there are/were WMD's at this point is irrelevant, because to leave Iraq now would throw not only that country into turmoil, but also the whole region. If you are so backward as to believe that the Iranians are not posturing themselves to come into Iraq and take not only the oil but other resources, while at the same time eradicating all people not of Shia faith, then by all means, continue to spout on about Treason and other tratorious acts.
so then ZZ cream,
Based or your summarization, Abraham Lincoln Was a traitor because after we had won the civil war the union army was inflicted with casualties in the occupation and reorganization of the south. the President sometimes has to sacrifice the few for the good of the many. It is many times a more dificult decision than you or I would care to have to make. It is, however, much easier to sit here on the sidelines and Monday morning QB. People similar to your opinion were one of the biggest reasons that WWII was allowed to come about. Your whining about the fact that we, as one of the leaders in the modern world, are sometimes required to make and die for decisions that are not directly seen on our own soil, is troublesome to me. We cannot and shall not be an isolationist society. Whether or not there are/were WMD's at this point is irrelevant, because to leave Iraq now would throw not only that country into turmoil, but also the whole region. If you are so backward as to believe that the Iranians are not posturing themselves to come into Iraq and take not only the oil but other resources, while at the same time eradicating all people not of Shia faith, then by all means, continue to spout on about Treason and other tratorious acts.
ZZ CREAM
EOG Master
Re: DEMOS NAME KIDS JARHEAD
P.S. It was the War Between The States.....BTW.
You are completely incorrect.....where did I ever draw an analogy to president Lincoln? or anybody else? I didn't. You lie just like our president. We won the war and you all know it....you all are just as traiterous as our president and you should be ashamed....but I doubt you are. There is still time for you to repent and ask forgiveness. Good Luck.....I will pray for our once great nation and our many lost souls.......Help us all Jesus.....Amen.
P.S. It was the War Between The States.....BTW.
ZZ CREAM
EOG Master
Doc Mercer
EOG Master
Re: DEMOS NAME KIDS JARHEAD
ZZ:
you are destroying that "image" that I have worked so hard to build up
on this forum!!
Might have to start calling you REDNECKMAN !!!
artyartyartyartyarty
ZZ:
you are destroying that "image" that I have worked so hard to build up
on this forum!!
Might have to start calling you REDNECKMAN !!!
artyartyartyartyarty
Doc Mercer
EOG Master
Re: DEMOS NAME KIDS JARHEAD
I remember when Bobby Murcer was the "chosen one" as I think he was a
Sooner like Mantle ... not sure but I think Murcer was from Oklahoma
I remember when Bobby Murcer was the "chosen one" as I think he was a
Sooner like Mantle ... not sure but I think Murcer was from Oklahoma