"India shows why we will all need COVID vaccine booster shots"

#1
"India shows why we will all need COVID vaccine booster shots

COVID mutations could spin out of control if situations like that in India continue to occur. Dr Khan explains how boosters will work...


...The mass production of the COVID-19 vaccines has been nothing short of a feat of medical science, and the rollout across many countries has been incredible. But there is a fly in the ointment – two, to be precise: How long does the protection provided by a vaccine last? And, will the vaccines be effective against emerging variants?

The tragic situation unfolding in India is a case in point when it comes to fighting new variants of the coronavirus. India has a population of 1.4 billion and had an excellent start to its vaccination programme. It is also home to one of the biggest manufacturers of vaccines in the world: the Serum Institute of India (SII), which was making and exporting millions of vaccines to other countries as cases were coming down in India.


But due to recent public gatherings, and the early easing of lockdown measures, India has found itself at the epicentre of the pandemic, setting global records for daily cases and deaths. The world has watched in horror as scenes of people struggling to breathe outside hospitals have streamed across news networks.

The SII and the Indian government have now reduced the volume of vaccine being exported from India, but this has come too late as they are also struggling to obtain the raw materials needed for vaccine manufacture from the United States, which is focused on getting its own population vaccinated.

This highlights the problem of Western countries prioritising their own vaccinations while other countries miss out. It also shines a light on holes in the World Health Organization’s plans to get vaccines to poorer countries through its COVAX scheme. As the pandemic unfolds, it is becoming clearer that there are likely to be huge outbreaks in some countries, and a global firefighting approach will most likely be needed. India is one of the world’s fastest growing economies, but the pandemic has brought it to its knees, forced to ask for foreign aid.

The longer the virus is able to run riot in India, the more people it will infect and the more likely it is that further mutations will emerge.


Scientists believe the latest Indian “double mutant” variant exhibit traits that could make it more infectious and less susceptible to vaccine-induced immunity, and we may well see the virus mutate further and in a direction that will make the current batch of vaccines even less effective.

As new variants emerge, therefore, we are likely to need booster shots to maintain our levels of protection or to fight new variants.
 
#2
How long does protection from a COVID vaccine last?

Another issue is that we do not know for sure how long protection lasts after having a COVID-19 vaccine. Most experts agree that protection is likely to last at least six months but only time will tell and further research is needed.

According to a study of 927 people, conducted by Pfizer and published on April 1, 2021, the vaccine offered 91.3 percent protection against COVID-19, measured from seven days through to six months after the second dose.

The company is also conducting a study into the effectiveness of a third dose of the vaccine – essentially a booster, given six to 12 months after the second dose. The study is part of Pfizer’s clinical development strategy to determine the effectiveness of a third dose of the same vaccine against evolving variants.


A study looking at the length of time the Moderna vaccine gives protection also showed those people who were given two doses of the vaccine had good antibody levels at six months after the second dose.


There is less data available for the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine. However, when looking at the effectiveness of the vaccine after giving the two doses at different intervals, studies have shown that the vaccine efficacy reached 82.4 percent after a second dose for those who had a dosing interval of 12 weeks or more, meaning if the two doses are given at least three months apart they offer more than 82 percent protection. It is therefore reasonable to think the protection will last at least a further three months after the second dose, although more data is needed.

It is entirely possible that vaccine-induced protection will last longer than the six months being proposed by these findings, but many experts believe that the antibodies created by vaccines will wane over time and booster shots will be required.

How will boosters work?

Booster shots work like a wake-up call for your immune system. Vaccines stimulate the body to create antibodies that are capable of recognising the coronavirus and, should you encounter it, killing it and any cells that have been infected by it, usually before you develop any symptoms.


Once this is complete, memory T and B immune cells patrol the body in case another encounter occurs. Over time, the numbers of these memory cells start to dwindle and the immune system may “forget” how to recognise the pathogen or germ causing the illness effectively in the future.

Booster shots serve to “remind” the immune system how to recognise the specific pathogen causing the disease. It means your body is more likely to respond quickly and more effectively after a booster shot.

According to Albert Bourla, the chief executive at Pfizer, the answer to whether we will need booster shots is “yes”. Speaking with American healthcare company CVS Health on April 16, Bourla said: “There will be likely a need for a third dose somewhere between six and 12 months [following the first two doses] and then from there, there will be an annual revaccination.”


Nadhim Zahawi, the UK’s vaccine minister, has said people who are clinically extremely vulnerable could begin to receive booster shots against new coronavirus variants as early as September. And David Kessler, chief science officer to the White House coronavirus task force, spoke to a congressional committee in the US about the need for booster shots, saying: “We understand that at a certain point in time we need to boost, whether that’s nine months, 12 months, and we are preparing for that coming.”

Booster shots are not a new phenomenon; we use them for other vaccines. We give booster shots of the measles, mumps, rubella (MMR) vaccine to children to ensure longer lasting and effective immunity and we give annual flu vaccines to clinically vulnerable people to protect against new strains of the flu virus.

Can boosters protect us from new variants?

New variants of the coronavirus are emerging all over the world. Only a handful are “variants of concern” – those that may harbour mutations enabling them to evade our immune responses triggered by vaccines. Booster shots may also serve as a way to stimulate the body to recognise new variants of the coronavirus as well.


Variants of concern include the South African, Brazil and Indian variants which have emerged in recent months (the vaccines appear to be effective against the UK variant). These variants include mutations of the spike protein (the part of the virus that binds to human cells) which might make them harder to recognise by immune cells generated by vaccines.

If these variants become dominant variants or more widespread then booster shots which can protect us against them are likely to be needed. If vaccines do need to be tweaked to be more effective against new variants, manufacturers have said that these will be easy to do and can be done in less than three months.

As time goes on, it is looking more and more likely that booster shots against COVID-19 are going to be needed. Many people argue that there is going to be a never-ending cycle of vaccines and boosters, but we already tolerate this with flu each year and we should start to look at vaccines against the coronavirus as no different to that.

Progress report: A possible vaccine for malaria

Another serious disease that kills some 400,000 people every year is malaria. But, at last, there may be a solution in sight. On April 23, researchers from the University of Oxford and its partners announced some promising results from tests of its vaccine which they claim is 77 percent effective in preventing malaria – higher than the World Health Organization (WHO) target efficacy of 75 percent.

[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.aljazeera.com/features/...-we-will-all-need-covid-vaccine-booster-shots[/URL]
 
#3
Since roughly a third wont get the first shots that's ridiculous, not to mention at this point there is no evidence on how long immunity - either natural or through vaccination lasts, all we know is it lasts 6-9 months at least.

There is also no evidence that indias surge is due to a new variant. right now the b117 english variant seems to be the main one.
 
#4
There are multiple counties in the US where vaccination rates are under 10%, I've seen as low as 6% with only 11% even among seniors, and it's not due to distribution or supply, no one wants them.

This upcoming week will mark the beginning of the end of mass vaccinations in the US, 2 weeks from now new people getting their 1st dose will slow to a trickle, there will then be a few weeks of mostly 2nd dosing, by June it'll be over and we'll have a good idea where we stand as far as herd immunity levels.

It's looking like at the best we'll hit 70% of adults, quite possible not getting out of the mid 60's.
 
#5
Since roughly a third wont get the first shots that's ridiculous, not to mention at this point there is no evidence on how long immunity - either natural or through vaccination lasts, all we know is it lasts 6-9 months at least.

There is also no evidence that indias surge is due to a new variant. right now the b117 english variant seems to be the main one.
It's not ridiculous for those who want to live, or at least live outside of their mother's basement or bomb shelter & not play Russian Roulette with their lives and or risk "long covid".

If a new VOC arises next month that present vaccinations are useless against, any present vaccination - and associated immunity - people have now will be worthless against.

There are reported cases where people who have recovered from a covid infection got reinfected.
 
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#6
There are multiple counties in the US where vaccination rates are under 10%, I've seen as low as 6% with only 11% even among seniors, and it's not due to distribution or supply, no one wants them.
Trump (inject lysol) supporters?

Great. All the more USA vaccines to be shipped to Canada & the rest of the world. LOL.

Soon the USA may be falling behind many other places.

"80% of Canadians plan to get COVID-19 vaccine"
https://globalnews.ca/news/7754548/covid-vaccine-canadians-safety-fears-hesitancy-poll/


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#7
Trump (inject lysol) supporters?

Great. All the more USA vaccines to be shipped to Canada & the rest of the world. LOL.

Soon the USA may be falling behind many other places.

"80% of Canadians plan to get COVID-19 vaccine"
https://globalnews.ca/news/7754548/covid-vaccine-canadians-safety-fears-hesitancy-poll/


View attachment 7464035
There will be massive numbers of vaccines to ship out, this first wave of mass vaccinations will take about 320 million doses and will be 95% completed by the end of may, I believe Trump and biden have ordered over 800 million doses including some that haven't even been approved yet.
 

billysink

EOG Dedicated
#8
Trump (inject lysol) supporters?

Great. All the more USA vaccines to be shipped to Canada & the rest of the world. LOL.

Soon the USA may be falling behind many other places.

"80% of Canadians plan to get COVID-19 vaccine"
https://globalnews.ca/news/7754548/covid-vaccine-canadians-safety-fears-hesitancy-poll/


View attachment 7464035
Canadians are actively trying to avoid American made vaccine. They are well aware that Americans are fukk ups and would rather avoid the inevitable "oh shit" virus outbreak because some Merlin like fukk put carpet glue in the mix instead of saline.

My wife's vaccine is from Belgium.
 
#9
Canadians are actively trying to avoid American made vaccine. They are well aware that Americans are fukk ups and would rather avoid the inevitable "oh shit" virus outbreak because some Merlin like fukk put carpet glue in the mix instead of saline.

My wife's vaccine is from Belgium.
I think it's wonderful that we are willing to send all our bad vaccine(that we wont approve) to others, very neighborly huh?
 
#10
Canadians are actively trying to avoid American made vaccine. They are well aware that Americans are fukk ups and would rather avoid the inevitable "oh shit" virus outbreak because some Merlin like fukk put carpet glue in the mix instead of saline.

My wife's vaccine is from Belgium.
I don't know about that, but if i recall the authorities up here are expecting to soon get (if some haven't arrived already) several different vaccines from the USA, including at least AZ, J&J & Pfizer. The latter, a German vaccine, has been coming to Canada from elsewhere, but it's supposed to be coming from the US plant in the future.
 
#11
I see a new report out today shows antibodies to covid persist as long as 12 months after infection, that's good news huh? That would mean the 150 million people who've caught it can breath easier and possibly no booster shots as well. Bad news for Pharma however.
 

TobyTyler

EOG Dedicated
#12
#13
There were 2 studies from last October that showed antibodies lasting for months.

Whether these antibodies are effective against present and future VOC is another matter.
 
#14
There were 2 studies from last October that showed antibodies lasting for months.

Whether these antibodies are effective against present and future VOC is another matter.
The fact reinfections are rarer than getting hit by lightening is a strong indication. It's possible immunity lasts a lifetime,very possible, much to the chagrin of co's like pfizer.
 
#15
The fact reinfections are rarer than getting hit by lightening is a strong indication. It's possible immunity lasts a lifetime,very possible, much to the chagrin of co's like pfizer.
"The study findings reveal that the antibody-mediated immunity developed in response to natural SARS-CoV-2 infection can persist for up to one year post-infection. However, the robustness and durability of antibody response is relatively lower among younger individuals with mild COVID-19 that does not require hospitalization.

*Important Notice
medRxiv publishes preliminary scientific reports that are not peer-reviewed and, therefore, should not be regarded as conclusive, guide clinical practice/health-related behavior, or treated as established information."

https://www.news-medical.net/amp/ne...up-to-a-year-after-infection-finds-study.aspx


"We observed SARS-CoV-2 seropositivity in 100% of inpatients followed for six months (58/58) to one year (8/8),..."

http://forums.eog.com/index.php?thr...d-vaccine-booster-shots.7468835/#post-7705522

Only 8 inpatients "to one year". Quite a small sample.
 

TobyTyler

EOG Dedicated
#16
Gotta be crazy to get that vaccine if you just had covid recently

Just wait 8-10 months get a blood test see if still have antibodies, and also obviously you get to wait and see where everything is at. Make the decision then.
 
#17
"The study findings reveal that the antibody-mediated immunity developed in response to natural SARS-CoV-2 infection can persist for up to one year post-infection. However, the robustness and durability of antibody response is relatively lower among younger individuals with mild COVID-19 that does not require hospitalization.

*Important Notice
medRxiv publishes preliminary scientific reports that are not peer-reviewed and, therefore, should not be regarded as conclusive, guide clinical practice/health-related behavior, or treated as established information."

https://www.news-medical.net/amp/ne...up-to-a-year-after-infection-finds-study.aspx


"We observed SARS-CoV-2 seropositivity in 100% of inpatients followed for six months (58/58) to one year (8/8),..."

http://forums.eog.com/index.php?thr...d-vaccine-booster-shots.7468835/#post-7705522

Only 8 inpatients "to one year". Quite a small sample.
Immunity does not come solely from antibodies, but T cell immunity also, I had measles, chicken pox, etc 50+ years ago, I dont have any antibodies still in my blood...but I'm still immune.
 
#18
"But don't people who've had COVID-19 have immunity?

"Yes, sometimes. The problem is that the level of immunity (as determined by the level of antibodies) varies greatly between people who've been previously infected, Stephen Russell, MD, PhD, CEO and co-founder of Imanis Life Sciences, tells Health. "Higher levels of neutralizing antibodies provide better protection against new infection," explains Dr. Russell. "More severe symptoms of infection often lead to higher levels of neutralizing antibodies, while less severe symptoms may lead to lower or no measurable neutralizing antibody production."

"In other words, if you had a very mild COVID-19 infection, your immune system may not have formed enough antibodies. And the same can be true for those who experienced a more severe form of the disease. A study published in Frontiers in Immunology in May 2020 found that the COVID-19 infection was so overpowering in hospitalized patients that their immune response became exhausted, and immune memory to the virus wasn't adequately formed.

"More evidence is needed to determine the risk of reinfection in previously infected people, as well as how long their protective immunity lasts. "One possible scenario is that a booster vaccine will be given to previously infected people six months after their original episode of COVID-19, but first we need more information on the speed at which immunity declines after natural infection," Dr. Russell says.

"He adds that protection and immunity due to neutralizing antibodies may weaken and eventually disappear over time. "Significant reductions in neutralizing antibodies are seen even within the first few months after recovery from a COVID-19 infection," he says. This suggests that vaccination could be beneficial, regardless of whether you had a mild or severe form of COVID-19."

https://www.health.com/condition/in.../if-you-already-had-covid-do-you-need-vaccine
 
#19
Gotta be crazy to get that vaccine if you just had covid recently

Just wait 8-10 months get a blood test see if still have antibodies, and also obviously you get to wait and see where everything is at. Make the decision then.
That leaves 96.7% of Canadians who don't know if they've had a covid infection & who should get vaccinated.

Also i'm not sure if there's anywhere in Canada where a symptomless curious person can get tested to see if they've been infected & have antibodies vs covid19. Even if you could, there's risk of exposure just going to a clinic full of sick covid infected people with VOC & the test could give a false positive.
 

TobyTyler

EOG Dedicated
#20
That leaves 96.7% of Canadians who don't know if they've had a covid infection & who should get vaccinated.

Also i'm not sure if there's anywhere in Canada where a symptomless curious person can get tested to see if they've been infected & have antibodies vs covid19. Even if you could, there's risk of exposure just going to a clinic full of sick covid infected people with VOC & the test could give a false positive.
I don't understand? .in Canada you cannot easily walk into a medimerge /urgent care (general Dr for people with no primary Dr or just want to get something checked out real quick without appt) and get a blood test for antibodies? There are prob half dozen with 15 min car of me right now in NJ they are everywhere. Takes 5 minutes.
 
#22
well you can catch chicken pox more than once.
Can you, i dont know about that? I know the virus hides in your body and can reappear as shingles at an older age, usually when your immunity wanes for one reason or another.

I also received the smallpox vaccine, do you think all of us who did still have smallpox antibodies? of course not. My point is it's not just antibodies.
 
#23
I don't understand? .in Canada you cannot easily walk into a medimerge /urgent care (general Dr for people with no primary Dr or just want to get something checked out real quick without appt) and get a blood test for antibodies? There are prob half dozen with 15 min car of me right now in NJ they are everywhere. Takes 5 minutes.
From what i've read it is not recommended to get tested to see if one is or has been infected with covid19 unless one has had certain symptoms or at least been in a situation that was relatively high risk for infection. They would probably deny you service. Of course one could lie in order to get tested, but i think the idea is they don't want multitudes of curious george types burdening medical clinics or hospitals meant for those with real needs, making the real needs patients wait longer, or exposing people needlessly to such a higher risk environment.

Reply
 

TobyTyler

EOG Dedicated
#24
From what i've read it is not recommended to get tested to see if one is or has been infected with covid19 unless one has had certain symptoms or at least been in a situation that was relatively high risk for infection. They would probably deny you service. Of course one could lie in order to get tested, but i think the idea is they don't want multitudes of curious george types burdening medical clinics or hospitals meant for those with real needs, making the real needs patients wait longer, or exposing people needlessly to such a higher risk environment.

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Canada lol
 

FairWarning

Bells Beer Connoisseur
#25
From what i've read it is not recommended to get tested to see if one is or has been infected with covid19 unless one has had certain symptoms or at least been in a situation that was relatively high risk for infection. They would probably deny you service. Of course one could lie in order to get tested, but i think the idea is they don't want multitudes of curious george types burdening medical clinics or hospitals meant for those with real needs, making the real needs patients wait longer, or exposing people needlessly to such a higher risk environment.

Reply
That is on Canada and their health program. After the initial crush for testing here, you could basically get one for any reason - or no reason here.
 
#26
That is on Canada and their health program. After the initial crush for testing here, you could basically get one for any reason - or no reason here.
You make that sound like what i posted re Canada would be a poor decision, yet i already pointed out the justifications for it ;

BTW:

Canada covid deaths: 24,450

USA covid deaths: 578,000 (worst on the planet)

see also:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
 
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