Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

FairWarning

FairWarning

Bells Beer Connoisseur
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

JavyBaez9 said:
I think you gotta get caught up on player evaluations though before you start analyzing a team's moves. For the Cubs, paying Heyward $23 million per year to play for them instead of the Cardinals is definitely a win. The Cardinals are their main competition in the NL Central, and maybe the NL in general.
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The last 4 years of that contract could be dead money also, can't say it's a great signing. Short-team 2-3 years) it is. The problem is its 8 years.
 
FairWarning

FairWarning

Bells Beer Connoisseur
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

JavyBaez9 said:
Seriously though, Abreu's walk rate went down last year, his strikeout rate went up, and his power went down, and his OPS dropped by over .100 points. Good luck with that, sweetheart.
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Let's be fair about Abreu. Who is protecting him in the lineup? He has to expand his strike zone. I think most teams would take him in a heartbeat, including every AL team.
 
JavyBaez9

JavyBaez9

EOG Master
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

FairWarning said:
The last 4 years of that contract could be dead money also, can't say it's a great signing. Short-team 2-3 years) it is. The problem is its 8 years.
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he'll be 34 at the end of this contract. That's the great thing about it.
 
JavyBaez9

JavyBaez9

EOG Master
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

FairWarning said:
Let's be fair about Abreu. Who is protecting him in the lineup? He has to expand his strike zone. I think most teams would take him in a heartbeat, including every AL team.
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We've discussed this on this forum before, but his rookie year had a shockingly lucky BABIP. Dude hit like over .400 BABIP on the 2nd half, like .420 I think or something. That luck was obviously not going to continue.
 
JavyBaez9

JavyBaez9

EOG Master
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

Jose Abreu 2014: .264 ISO
Jose Abreu 2015: .212 ISO

That's an alarming drop.
 
FairWarning

FairWarning

Bells Beer Connoisseur
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

I'm not a buyer on BABIP. He's there for power and his lineup around him is awful.
 
Timelytowin

Timelytowin

2
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

Kris Bryant had a .378 BABIP last year and hit 275. lol
Abreu had a .333 BABIP last year and .358 his rookie year. He makes great contact leading to an elevated BABIP.

scrubs probably thinks all babips normalize to .300.
 
JavyBaez9

JavyBaez9

EOG Master
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

lmao Kris Bryant is a 23 year old rookie. Talking about a 29 year old man Cuban that might be 35 for all we know.

Let's face it, you know the Cubs are better than the White Sox right now, but what's really bothering you is that the Cubs are going to be better than the White Sox for at least 10 years. Just get over it and stop being a little bitter bitch about it.
 
JavyBaez9

JavyBaez9

EOG Master
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

FairWarning said:
What if he turns into Matt Kemp? You are exposed to a lot of years/money. The market is out of control.
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The enticing thing about the deal is that Heyward has not reached his potential. That much is obvious to anyone who has ever watched him. Anyone can tail off, but a very athletic player at 26 is pretty much the best big deal you can sign and limit your risk.
 
FairWarning

FairWarning

Bells Beer Connoisseur
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

JavyBaez9 said:
The enticing thing about the deal is that Heyward has not reached his potential. That much is obvious to anyone who has ever watched him. Anyone can tail off, but a very athletic player at 26 is pretty much the best big deal you can sign and limit your risk.
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The Cubs really don't control the risk here. He could get some injuries and turn into Matt Kemp in 2 years also.
 
JavyBaez9

JavyBaez9

EOG Master
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

FairWarning said:
The Cubs really don't control the risk here. He could get some injuries and turn into Matt Kemp in 2 years also.
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Any player could suck. Greinke could suck. Price could suck. Abreu could be arrested for choking his wife tomorrow. Abreu could be 38 and be a year away from retirement.

There's risk with anyone. Pointless to think about, but Heyward has less risk than most.
 
FairWarning

FairWarning

Bells Beer Connoisseur
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

JavyBaez9 said:
Any player could suck. Greinke could suck. Price could suck. Abreu could be arrested for choking his wife tomorrow. Abreu could be 38 and be a year away from retirement.

There's risk with anyone. Pointless to think about, but Heyward has less risk than most.
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why does he have less risk than other players? Still doesn't mean you give him 8 years. I hope it works out, but color me skeptical.
 
JavyBaez9

JavyBaez9

EOG Master
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

FairWarning said:
why does he have less risk than other players? Still doesn't mean you give him 8 years. I hope it works out, but color me skeptical.
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He's very graceful in the field. Watch him dive or slide or make a play... he glides to the ball. That decreases his injury compared to someone like Puig or Soler that just clods to the ball.

And again, he's very young. Hasn't even entered his physical prime yet.
 
V

Valuist

EOG Master
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

JavyBaez9 said:
He's very graceful in the field. Watch him dive or slide or make a play... he glides to the ball. That decreases his injury compared to someone like Puig or Soler that just clods to the ball.

And again, he's very young. Hasn't even entered his physical prime yet.
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As a Cubs fan, I would NOT have made the move. Not that Hayward isn't a solid player. That's just it; you're getting a solid player while paying for a superstar.

Theo isn't paying for his defense, as was suggested earlier. He is paying for Hayward's potential. He had the one big power year but hasn't found it since. The expectations for Hayward have been giant, but only time will tell if he will meet them. So far he hasn't.

Love the Lackey and Zobrist moves. Just not as high on this one.
 
JavyBaez9

JavyBaez9

EOG Master
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

Valuist said:
As a Cubs fan, I would NOT have made the move. Not that Hayward isn't a solid player. That's just it; you're getting a solid player while paying for a superstar.

Theo isn't paying for his defense, as was suggested earlier. He is paying for Hayward's potential. He had the one big power year but hasn't found it since. The expectations for Hayward have been giant, but only time will tell if he will meet them. So far he hasn't.

Love the Lackey and Zobrist moves. Just not as high on this one.
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Here's the difference... Heyward is athletic enough to play a good centerfield. An .800 OPS from centerfield is pretty damn elite. You can't compare his numbers to corner outfielders if you're moving him to center. They need to be compared to other center fielders.

Add in his elite base running and low strikeout rates and he is exactly what this team needed.
 
V

Valuist

EOG Master
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

JavyBaez9 said:
Here's the difference... Heyward is athletic enough to play a good centerfield. An .800 OPS from centerfield is pretty damn elite. You can't compare his numbers to corner outfielders if you're moving him to center. They need to be compared to other center fielders.

Add in his elite base running and low strikeout rates and he is exactly what this team needed.
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Hayward has been an excellent right fielder, no doubt. But that automatically doesn't translate into same level center fielder. It might, but again, there's a big risk/reward.

Was the contract 8 years or 10? Both are too many, IMO.

Span could've been an interesting possibility at far less cost. No, the upside isn't close to Hayward and he'll never hit for power. But you know he can handle CF great and hit leadoff, and would've tied up A TON less money.
 
JavyBaez9

JavyBaez9

EOG Master
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

Valuist said:
Hayward has been an excellent right fielder, no doubt. But that automatically doesn't translate into same level center fielder. It might, but again, there's a big risk/reward.

Was the contract 8 years or 10? Both are too many, IMO.

Span could've been an interesting possibility at far less cost. No, the upside isn't close to Hayward and he'll never hit for power. But you know he can handle CF great and hit leadoff, and would've tied up A TON less money.
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Well, the Cubs might not be done. They could trade Soler for pitching and then sign Austin Jackson or Span for CF and keep Heyward in RF. You never know.

Heyward seems perfectly capable of playing a plus CF though, from watching him do it last year.
 
V

Valuist

EOG Master
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

They certainly are going for it now, but my guess is if Hayward wasn't considering St. Louis, Theo would've been much more patient. Since he's got here, most of the moves Theo has made have been very good. Arrieta was pure theft; I still like the Lester signing, and I believe that played a big role in Lackey coming over. The only real bad move was trading DJ Lemahieu to Colorado for Ian Stewart. So maybe I'm wrong on Hayward, but it does seem like seriously overpaying.
 
Viejo Dinosaur

Viejo Dinosaur

EOG Master
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

Valuist said:
Hayward has been an excellent right fielder, no doubt. But that automatically doesn't translate into same level center fielder. It might, but again, there's a big risk/reward.

Was the contract 8 years or 10? Both are too many, IMO.

Span could've been an interesting possibility at far less cost. No, the upside isn't close to Hayward and he'll never hit for power. But you know he can handle CF great and hit leadoff, and would've tied up A TON less money.
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Finally....somebody gets it..

Heyward was a good signing, but not worth the money...
 
Brayden11

Brayden11

EOG Dedicated
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

Will Schwarber improve defensively in left field? He was brutal last year.
 
JavyBaez9

JavyBaez9

EOG Master
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

If you don't believe in defensive stats and WAR, I can see how it would be seen as overpaying. I think those stats are valuable and part of the evolution of understanding the game.
 
S

ShavenCoinpurse

EOG Dedicated
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

Ridiculous amount of money that he is not worthy of. However, that is the nature of the market. You aren't getting free agents for what they are worth, you are bidding enough so that they will sign with your team. Every player is over paid when there is a demand for them.
 
JavyBaez9

JavyBaez9

EOG Master
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

Viejo Dinosaur said:
Finally....somebody gets it..

Heyward was a good signing, but not worth the money...
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Illogical statement is illogical. If he's a good signing, he's a good signing. The amount of money was the amount of money it took to make the signing.
 
JavyBaez9

JavyBaez9

EOG Master
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

ShavenCoinpurse said:
Ridiculous amount of money that he is not worthy of. However, that is the nature of the market. You aren't getting free agents for what they are worth, you are bidding enough so that they will sign with your team. Every player is over paid when there is a demand for them.
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At least you kind of get it, but the point is that if you don't pay them, someone else will.

It changes the analysis of what's worth it and what's not worth it because you can't win without good players and you can't get good players in free agency without paying them lots of money.

So you either grow a complete team from scratch (almost impossible) or you grow most of your team from scratch and then fill the holes with overpaid players in free agency.
 
Timelytowin

Timelytowin

2
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

JavyBaez9 said:
Here's the difference... Heyward is athletic enough to play a good centerfield. An .800 OPS from centerfield is pretty damn elite. You can't compare his numbers to corner outfielders if you're moving him to center. They need to be compared to other center fielders.

Add in his elite base running and low strikeout rates and he is exactly what this team needed.
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his defensive numbers in center are no where near where they are in right. you really just don't know what you're talking about.

if he shifts to center, he loses about 1/2 of his defensive value which was a big reason he got all that money.

no matter what the cubs do, this guy would tell you it's genius.

i love the part about him gliding in the outfield so being less likely to get hurt. :LMAO
 
JavyBaez9

JavyBaez9

EOG Master
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

Timelytowin said:
his defensive numbers in center are no where near where they are in right. you really just don't know what you're talking about.

if he shifts to center, he loses about 1/2 of his defensive value which was a big reason he was paid.
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If I don't know what I'm talking about, why do most of my predictions come true, and most of yours are hilariously off line?

This shit isn't even disputable. Everything we've disagreed on in the past has been clearly a win in my favor of the argument. Anyone who has been on EOG knows that, so why do you even bother coming here trying to troll me? You are my little bitch and you know it. I really don't understand why you try to act like that isn't the case. You must enjoy it somehow, which is a little bit weird.
 
JavyBaez9

JavyBaez9

EOG Master
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs


lol tell me he doesn't glide to the ball. It's called body control. People with it are less likely to get hurt.
 
Timelytowin

Timelytowin

2
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

now highlight videos to prove he wont get hurt. :LMAO:LMAO

this guy named ken griffey jr was pretty graceful. wonder if he ever had injury problems.

according to scrubs advanced metrics, heyward's glide rate is 100, decreasing his injury likelihood by 29.5%. :LMAO:LMAO
 
JavyBaez9

JavyBaez9

EOG Master
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

He's a 26 year old outfielder. His injury risk is low compared to the average baseball player just because of that. You're such an uninteresting autistic fuck, Timely. I swear, do you have no self respect anymore?
 
Viejo Dinosaur

Viejo Dinosaur

EOG Master
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

Heyward was so bad in April, May, and part of June that the Cards considered benching him...he can't afford a bad start in 2016...
 
D

Drnkyourmlkshk

EOG Dedicated
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

How did a thread created by such a brilliant sports bettor get destroyed so badly.
Waz what would you make the rsw total for the cubs (93 my initial thought) and without another pitcher pickup does the bullpen have the length to pick up long win opportunities? Will they be over valued in just April or all season?

Javy stop acting like anyone who isn't a cubs die hard is not capable of discussing "your team" the cubs fairly. You're biase is extreme and attacking people constantly ruined what could have been a great debate, discussion thread. Congrads on the off season.
 
L

lap18

EOG Dedicated
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

Chi_Dorothy said:
thread has some weird turns

fun to see all the big splash moves by the cubs this off season

I think they win less games in 2016 though
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Careful there chi Dorothy.... Javy will be all up in your ass with posts like that.
 
JavyBaez9

JavyBaez9

EOG Master
Re: Jason Heyward signs with the Cubs

Drnkyourmlkshk said:
How did a thread created by such a brilliant sports bettor get destroyed so badly.
Waz what would you make the rsw total for the cubs (93 my initial thought) and without another pitcher pickup does the bullpen have the length to pick up long win opportunities? Will they be over valued in just April or all season?

Javy stop acting like anyone who isn't a cubs die hard is not capable of discussing "your team" the cubs fairly. You're biase is extreme and attacking people constantly ruined what could have been a great debate, discussion thread. Congrads on the off season.
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I have been a good resource for anyone who wants information or advice on the Cubs on this forum for a while. A lot of the people in this thread are acting like Heyward is trash and not worth half what he got. Those kinds of opinions aren't good enough to debate or discuss, sorry. You're pointing the finger in the wrong direction.
 
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