JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

John Kelly

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

I remember seeing Carmen Alessi camped out near the $50 window at the east end of the Sportsman's Park grandstand.
 
blueline

blueline

EOG Master
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

that was a fun area for me to hang around with it's proximity to the paddock
 
2

2W2P2S

EOG Dedicated
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

John Kelly said:
I remember seeing Carmen Alessi camped out near the $50 window at the east end of the Sportsman's Park grandstand.
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How did you not grill him on his response? You gave him an opportunity to be humble for once in his life when you told him "you have more losing days than winning days, but when you win, you win big" and this disgrace for a human being told you "I wouldn't call it losing, I trade dollars and break around even some days, but I wouldn't say lose"..............how the eff do you allow him to get away with that response?
 
John Kelly

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

Next time, I'll call Patrick a blithering idiot and we'll see where the conversation goes from there.
 
John Kelly

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

It's easier to work with no-nonsense professional gamblers than public handicappers who never admit they lose (see Dave Cokin).
 
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Discreet Cat

EOG Dedicated
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

2W2P2S said:
How did you not grill him on his response? You gave him an opportunity to be humble for once in his life when you told him "you have more losing days than winning days, but when you win, you win big" and this disgrace for a human being told you "I wouldn't call it losing, I trade dollars and break around even some days, but I wouldn't say lose"..............how the eff do you allow him to get away with that response?
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It's not enough that JK let McQuiggan's bullshit response slide. He was undoubtedly reprimanded after the show for suggesting (on air) that Patrick might ever lose.
 
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ChuckyG

EOG Master
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

I'll take a different stance. When it comes to public handicapping, I think presentation of information is ok.

Player's responsibility to digest that information and do as they see fit.
 
railbird

railbird

EOG Master
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

2W2P2S said:
Patrick McQuiggan never loses. Ever. Occasionally he trades dollars but have a losing day? Patrick says no.
The selling of picks, and the job at the Southpoint are altruistic acts to give back to the public in hopes they can become the multi-billionaire he has become through his wagering.
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would he be more noble if he started a charity to save horse meat from reaching super markets.
 
2

2W2P2S

EOG Dedicated
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

ChuckyG said:
I'll take a different stance. When it comes to public handicapping, I think presentation of information is ok.

Player's responsibility to digest that information and do as they see fit.
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You think misinformation is OK?
 
John Kelly

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

Misinformation is rampant in the public handicapping square.

Simply watch TVG.

I label it "instructive error."
 
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ComptrBob

EOG Master
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

John Kelly said:
Next time, I'll call Patrick a blithering idiot and we'll see where the conversation goes from there.
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You might have him explain why if he never loses, his best bet record for the Track Talk radio show since May, 2014 (with some scratches and 2 pushes, for over two years) has 61 winning days and 151 losing days (28.8%). Misinformation is one thing, outright lying is another. McQuiggan's dishonesty makes Dave Cokin seem like a choir boy.
 
John Kelly

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

I'll cite your numbers this Saturday.

Any ROI, Bob?
 
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ComptrBob

EOG Master
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

Old quote from the Aaron Hesz thread (Nov 2013):

ComptrBob said:
Ok, out of morbid curiosity, I went back over the last 3 1/2 months, Aug 3 thru Nov 10. I missed Patrick McQuiggan's picks on two shows, Aug 24 and Oct 20. The rules, as I understand them, are to "wager" up to $50 per show, usually the bets are W/P/S, DD, and Exactas.

Out of a total of 28 shows, he had 7 winning days, $1390 wagered, net -$244.
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I'll try to update the ROI numbers over a longer period. :)
 
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ComptrBob

EOG Master
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

John Kelly said:
I'll cite your numbers this Saturday.

Any ROI, Bob?
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I finally finished tallying Track Talk Show results from March 30, 2013 to July 3, 2016 (Present). Disclaimer: I did miss a few shows before the switch to KSHP and the availability of an archive. Computed $2 WPS bets for Toby and Tom (only on the Sunday show), graded Patrick per his betting specification (up to $50 per show). Note Donald Harris substituted for Toby on several occasions (did not count).

Short term ROI for the last 12 months: Toby +1.7%, Pat +30.3% , JK +2.0%, Tom -17.9%

Overall:
Toby Turrell: Amount Bet: $546, Win: $454.0, ROI -16.8%, Place: $491.8, -9.9%, Show: $494.8, -9.4%
Tom Quigley: Amount Bet: $282, Win: $312.0, ROI 10.6%, Place: $228.4, -19.0%, Show: $222.0, -21.3%

Patrick McQuiggan: Amount Bet: $15,466, Net: $1,133.9, ROI 7.3%, 88 winning days (28.5%), 221 losing days, 2 push days.

John Kelly (sports picks): $339.93 units risked, W/L/T: 151-147-6, -11.11, ROI -3.3%
 
John Kelly

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

McQuiggan's numbers blow me away.

I'll alert Patrick of your recordkeeping, Bob.

Thanks.
 
railbird

railbird

EOG Master
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

2w2p2s. Do you like apples? How you like them apples
 
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ChuckyG

EOG Master
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

John Kelly said:
McQuiggan's numbers blow me away.

I'll alert Patrick of your recordkeeping, Bob.

Thanks.
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Pretty nice run for McQuig. I'm just guessing, he must play a lot of 5/1 and 6/1-type prices.
 
ChiTownJoe

ChiTownJoe

EOG Dedicated
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

ChuckyG said:
Pretty nice run for McQuig. I'm just guessing, he must play a lot of 5/1 and 6/1-type prices.
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Not certain, but believe it was a large odds exacta that boosted the ROI. Patrick will play a win bet, and an exacta box with another contender. Think he had the exacta in the neighborhood of 100-1, 10x.
 
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ChuckyG

EOG Master
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

ChiTownJoe said:
Not certain, but believe it was a large odds exacta that boosted the ROI. Patrick will play a win bet, and an exacta box with another contender. Think he had the exacta in the neighborhood of 100-1, 10x.
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Got it, Joe. Huge variance on the horse exotics, that's for sure.
 
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Discreet Cat

EOG Dedicated
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

For the record, i think McQuiggan is a total fraud as a horseracing expert, and i'm sure that whatever profit he's showing on the radio show is due to some gigantic, fluke exotic payout that threw a monkey wrench into his overall stats. I also think it's regrettable (though not very surprising) that JK was using Computer Bob's stats to pump Patrick up as some kind of winning, expert handicapper. Rest assured that if Patrick was getting buried, it never would've been mentioned on the show.

All that being said, i have to give credit where it's due, Patrick did have a very nice $17 winner on the show today. His followers (Jim Jones suddenly leaps to mind) must have been very happy about that. Kudos to Patrick, for at least this one day.
 
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ComptrBob

EOG Master
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

All of Patrick's positive result comes from the last 12 months, up a net $1,437.40. His largest win from the last 12 months (105 total picks) was $373, having 4 days between $300 and $399, 4 between $200 and $299, 7 between $100 and $199.

Obviously huge variance is at work, the big wins in the last 12 months were frequent enough to outweigh the losses. With only 309 picks tallied, its very hard to say that Patrick will stay above water for next year.
 
D

Discreet Cat

EOG Dedicated
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

ComptrBob said:
All of Patrick's positive result comes from the last 12 months, up a net $1,437.40. His largest win from the last 12 months (105 total picks) was $373, having 4 days between $300 and $399, 4 between $200 and $299, 7 between $100 and $199.

Obviously huge variance is at work, the big wins in the last 12 months were frequent enough to outweigh the losses. With only 309 picks tallied, its very hard to say that Patrick will stay above water for next year.
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Thanks for the clarification. Perhaps i've been a little too harsh in my opinion of the guy. I still think he's a fraud, but if he's had that solid of a year, then good for him.
 
Game On Dude

Game On Dude

EOG Member
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

John Kelly said:
I believe Jerry Graham drove Goose Filter at Sportsman's Park.

Here's an update on Jerry Graham:

http://xwebapp.ustrotting.com/absolutenm/templates/article.aspx?articleid=50641&zoneid=1
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I never saw Goose Filter run. A buddy who introduced me to Harness Racing said he was pretty good horse. I do remember Misty Raquel, she was a great mare and Smashing Don a monster size for a harness horse. Graham didn't have a huge stable but had quality horses. HR'S Pet was a good one that come to mind.
 
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Patrick McIrish

OCCams raZOR
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

ONE OF THE SHARPEST GUYS IN TOWN!!!!!!!!!!

Not to mention a gentleman and a scholar.
 
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Patrick McIrish

OCCams raZOR
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

Disregard, got the last name wrong, thought it was a different Patrick.

Carry on.
 
ChiTownJoe

ChiTownJoe

EOG Dedicated
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

ComptrBob said:
All of Patrick's positive result comes from the last 12 months, up a net $1,437.40. His largest win from the last 12 months (105 total picks) was $373, having 4 days between $300 and $399, 4 between $200 and $299, 7 between $100 and $199.

Obviously huge variance is at work, the big wins in the last 12 months were frequent enough to outweigh the losses. With only 309 picks tallied, its very hard to say that Patrick will stay above water for next year.
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Bob, are all of Patrick's plays tracked strictly Win-Place or include exacta's also?
 
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ComptrBob

EOG Master
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

ChiTownJoe said:
Bob, are all of Patrick's plays tracked strictly Win-Place or include exacta's also?
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Most of his plays are $30W20P (207), but some are 30W+10EXB (41), and assorted 50W, DD, Tri, 8EXB, etc.
 
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ComptrBob

EOG Master
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

Mmm ... finally Patrick admitted to having a losing day yesterday on this morning's Track Talk show. Nice.

The reason I went back into my records was to demonstate that JK's comment that Patrick loses more days than he wins is obvious from the way Patrick tends to bet exotics and underdogs. Instead of quoting the W/L (28.5%) record to show this is true of the radio show picks, JK only quotes the McQuiggan +7% ROI as well as his 30% ROI for the last 12 months. And then JK mentions his small losing record in the show's sports pick to mollify me ..lol.

Toby Turrell had a winner today, but has an absolutely horrible -16.6% ROI over 3 years if $2 Win bets were placed on each of his picks. Do we get full disclosure this Sunday AM? Probably will mumble that he's giving out picks at 7:45am and can't be expected to win.

Stay tuned.
 
John Kelly

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

Excellent use of the word "mollify."

I'll try my level-best to cite all of Bob's findings tomorrow morning.
 
Y

yisman

EOG Master
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

2W2P2S said:
How did you not grill him on his response? You gave him an opportunity to be humble for once in his life when you told him "you have more losing days than winning days, but when you win, you win big" and this disgrace for a human being told you "I wouldn't call it losing, I trade dollars and break around even some days, but I wouldn't say lose"..............how the eff do you allow him to get away with that response?
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how does he expect to be taken seriously? Anyone that's actually gambling has losing days, and lots of them.


Maybe he's saying he has a racket set up where he's booking action or something, or South Point reimburses him for his losses (LOL).
 
2

2W2P2S

EOG Dedicated
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

Sounds like Toby might hire Comptrbob.
 
John Kelly

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

I'll address Tom Quigley's numbers next Sunday.
 
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ComptrBob

EOG Master
Re: JK: Do you consider PATRICK McQUIGGAN to be pretty sharp?

Patrick McQuiggan has now gone to a negative overall ROI so maybe time for an update ( as of yesterday, Feb 25, 2017):

Short term ROI for the last 12 months (March, 2016 to Feb. 2017): Toby T. -9.5%, Pat McQ -23.2% , JK +0.5%, Tom Q. -14.2%

Overall:
Toby Turrell: Amount Bet: $602, Win: $511.40, ROI -15.0%, Place: $544.30, -9.6%, Show: $547.30, -9.1%
Tom Quigley: Amount Bet: $334, Win: $333.20, ROI -0.2%, Place: $250.20, -25.1%, Show: $252.00, -24.6%

Patrick McQuiggan: Amount Bet: $18,662, Net: -$27.90, ROI -0.1%, 99 winning days (26.6%), 275 losing days, 2 push days.

John Kelly (sports picks): $339.93 units risked, W/L/T: 183-174-8, -10.09, ROI -2.4%
 
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