Major info about Neteller

jackson9

EOG Member
Net-betting crackdown freezes funds - USATODAY.com


By Jon Swartz, USA TODAY
SAN FRANCISCO ? The federal crackdown on online gambling has tied up the funds of thousands of U.S. patrons of two of the largest services.
The crackdown on BetOnSports, which no longer takes sports wagers from the USA, and Neteller ? an Internet payment service popular among gamblers ? is intended to put a dent in the $10.6 billion industry.

And it has: Following federal charges against executives from both companies, dozens of the more than 2,300 websites that service online gambling have stopped taking U.S. wagers.

Still, the actions against BetOnSports and Neteller have left the online accounts of their U.S. customers frozen until legal issues are resolved.

"The truth is that the money is in limbo and the companies are not required to refund any money until a successful prosecution or settlement takes place," says Michael Tew, principal of gaming consultant CapitalHQ. "This could take years." Funds from other gambling sites are not tied up, Tew and others say.

Most U.S. customers of BetOnSports have been waiting to cash out money in their accounts since July, when a federal grand jury issued a 22-count indictment charging CEO David Carruthers with racketeering, conspiracy and fraud. BetOnSports handled $1.77 billion in bets during its 2005 fiscal year, with more than 90% of wagers from the USA. An attorney representing the company declined to comment.

Neteller founders Stephen Lawrence and John Lefebvre were arrested in January on a charge of conspiracy to transfer funds with the intent to promote illegal gambling.

Though money-transfer companies such as Neteller do business with financial institutions and merchants, many also allow gambling companies to transfer money collected from U.S. gamblers to bank accounts outside the USA. Neteller last month closed its U.S. Internet gambling services, erasing about two-thirds of its business.

Neteller offers few instructions for customers trying to cash out their accounts. "We are working to resolve all withdrawal issues, but in the meantime we continue to maintain these funds in trust on your behalf," says a posting on the company's website.

Neteller declined to comment. The company processed more than $7 billion in online gambling transactions in its 2005 fiscal year. FBI Agent Neil Donovan says funds from Neteller are being held in court as potential evidence. Some customers may get their money back, but he did not provide a timetable.

A law signed by President Bush in October bans the use of credit cards, checks and electronic fund transfers for Internet gaming. U.S. residents place more than half of all bets to major offshore casinos.

BetOnSports has settled civil charges with the Justice Department, but not criminal charges. Carruthers' case is separate.<!-- / message -->
 
Re: Major info about Neteller

Jackson, we're glad to have you here buddy. Don't let our smartass comments run you off.

:cheers
 
Re: Major info about Neteller

"The crackdown on BetOnSports, which no longer takes sports wagers from the USA, and Neteller ? an Internet payment service popular among gamblers ? is intended to put a dent in the $10.6 billion industry." No long takes wagers from the USA because they no longer exist. But what would you expect from the scratch-n-sniff of newspapers.
 

janus

EOG Dedicated
Re: Major info about Neteller

And in other news, Grok Make fire!

(sorry, I couldn't resist)

the thread title was "major info about neteller"... the FBI-related bolded type from the initial posting is in fact NEW & VERY IMPORTANT info given neteller's 2-1-07 decision to stop US customer P2P xfers... meaning there is no longer a way to withdrawal funds by sending them to a non-us member (or any other way for that matter).

your comments could be more accurately characterized as 'dumbassed' rather than 'smartassed'.
 

Monte

EOG Member
Re: Major info about Neteller

What I would like to know is the Government holding USA peoples money or not? If they are how have people been doing peer to peer transfers?

Also WTF does this FBI agent mean some people may get their money back? Why the fuck doesn't everyone get it back? Who the hell is the govt to say who should and shouldn't.
 

Monte

EOG Member
Re: Major info about Neteller

Just learned peer to peer transfers are shut off for USA citizens.
 

jackson9

EOG Member
Re: Major info about Neteller

While somewhat vague, this article makes it sound as if the neteller funds are under the control of the U.S. and not Neteller. Using the name of a specific FBI agent gives it some credibility.

Just a theory here....but, because the Neteller founders were charged with money laundering, would that give the U.S. the authority to seize and control Neteller's bank accounts.
 

sean1

EOG Dedicated
Re: Major info about Neteller

FBI
NEIL DONOVAN, JAMES MARGOLIN
PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICE
(212) 384-2715, 2720


Maybe someone wants to call him up and ask if they are just holding the money from their "sting guy" or if they have a seizure in place... I'm not home during biz hours today.

Sean
 
Re: Major info about Neteller

the thread title was "major info about neteller"... the FBI-related bolded type from the initial posting is in fact NEW & VERY IMPORTANT info given neteller's 2-1-07 decision to stop US customer P2P xfers... meaning there is no longer a way to withdrawal funds by sending them to a non-us member (or any other way for that matter).

your comments could be more accurately characterized as 'dumbassed' rather than 'smartassed'.

Actually, DICK, I'm pretty sure we all ALREADY FUCKING KNEW we couldn't fucking use neteller to fund sportsbooks, SO NO, it wasn't dumbassed.

Why the fuck do I care about peer to peer if I can't fund a sportsbook.

You're gonna pay to deposit there, then pay to xfer to a friend, then have him deposit and then when you get back have him withdraw and xfer to you again minus fees and then put it in your bank. YEAH, THAT'S AN OPTION...NOT

How many people actually use neteller for anything else.

FUCK OFF dickmunch.

I was just giving the guy a hard time and you come in like you're somebody on a fucking horse. Kiss my ass.
 

Woody

EOG Veteran
Re: Major info about Neteller

Just a theory here....but, because the Neteller founders were charged with money laundering, would that give the U.S. the authority to seize and control Neteller's bank accounts.

If they can get the funds, which might have applied to EFTs NETeller attempted to send recently to US clients.

Regarding US $ accounts in UK banks they would have to request co-operation from the UK government and given the current climate I doubt they would get any.

'These subpoenas and arrests are sheer hypocrisy' | Business | Money | Telegraph
 

The General

Another Day, Another Dollar
Thanks for the article

Thanks for the article

'These subpoenas and arrests are sheer hypocrisy'
Last Updated: 11:48pm GMT 27/01/2007



The US crackdown on online gaming may not be so much about morals as hard cash, Mark Choueke discovers. The Americans, suggest the cynics, want to drive foreigners out to establish their own Vegas gambling brands

The long arm of the American legal machine reached further into the British business establishment last week.

News that the US Department of Justice (DoJ) is pursuing London-based banks for information relating to online gambling companies has sparked fears that an American campaign to shut down these sites will lead to further arrests and charges.

The still-smouldering issue of Britain's legal relationship with the US was further reignited last week when Ian Norris, one of several British businessmen targeted for alleged price-fixing, lost a vital appeal in the High Court. Taken together, the two cases could make the recent furore over the NatWest Three look like just the start (see box).

"There is an enormous row brewing over extradition," says Alun Jones QC, one of Britain's top extradition lawyers. "It's only a matter of time before some of the online gaming executives become caught up in extradition requests, and that will bring the issue back into focus."

A number of gambling executives are already staring down the barrel of the US legal system after being arrested while travelling there. David Carruthers, the chief executive of -BetonSports, is awaiting trial in St Louis, Missouri and faces 20 years' imprisonment for allegedly flouting US rules that outlaw online gambling. Similarly, John Lefebvre and Stephen Lawrence, the founders of Neteller, were arrested in Los Angeles last Monday and stripped of their passports; they face charges of laundering billions of dollars in "illegal" online gaming proceeds.

Given this backdrop, it is no wonder the banks subpoenaed by the DoJ are trying to keep their heads down. "We're co-operating fully," said one London banker last week. "We don't have any legal right to withhold information from the US authorities."

The hope is that the authorities are just trawling for information, not looking to widen the net. "The Americans are going after the gaming companies, not the banks," says another banker. "The only request they made of us was to hand over any contact we had with the gaming outfits." But lawyers with experience of such investigations warn against complacency.

Jason Chess, a partner at Wiggin, the London law firm, and a gaming law specialist, says: "Nobody should be blas? about what the Americans are doing. They're acting very aggressively, and if you're an executive of an internet gaming company operating just about anywhere from Alderney to the Isle of Man, the message is, don't go anywhere near the US."

Chess describes the DoJ's actions as "nothing more than economic and imperialist bullying" and says the two-faced approach of the American authorities towards gambling shows there is a need to stand up to the DoJ. "There are US politicians preaching that gambling is a destroyer of families while a quarter of the population spends its vacations putting coins in slot machines in Vegas casinos," he says. "For me this is more about driving foreign traders out of action so Nevada and Vegas don't lose out on business in the future. The moves being made now give the US time to sort out the legalisation of online gaming and give the Vegas brands time to establish their own brands online."

Warwick Bartlett of Global Betting & Gaming Consultants agrees. "The Americans want to bring these gaming company executives to what they refer to as 'justice', which means slamming them in jail, pocketing their proceeds from the business and claiming the market as their own. Our view is that the US will legalise online gaming within five years. These subpoenas and the arrests represent sheer hypocrisy."

The DoJ refuses to comment on the ongoing activity and won't even state the name of the specific crime it is investigating. But the American Gaming Association confirms that the legal status of online gaming in the US could change in the future. Helen Thomsen of the association says: "The AGA supports a study of online gambling in the US being congressionally funded. Such a study would look into how online gambling could be properly regulated and controlled. We are pursuing the matter with the new Senate and hopefully a study could begin in the next few months. We can't be sure of how the recent change of power in the Senate will affect the future status of online gambling but it's interesting that the majority leader is Harry Reid, who is from Nevada, one of the larger gambling centres."

So online gaming executives are being hunted all over the globe in a manner more befitting terrorists, dragged off to American shores and forced to fight for their freedom because their successful businesses ? perfectly legal in the country they operate in ? are being or have been illegally used by American citizens.

But the apparent double standards are not restricted to the US. The British Government, about to announce plans for new super-casinos over here, had previously backed the development of the online gaming industry in the UK but has so far had little to say about the fates of Carruthers, Lefebvre or Lawrence.

Bartlett says: "The Government should have come out with a clear, unequivocal statement by now. It wanted to draw online gaming operators away from the likes of Gibraltar and into the UK, where a global gambling hub could be created. Not only would such a drift mean the industry could be properly regulated but the Treasury would also benefit from extra jobs and revenue. Where is the Government's support now things are getting a little bit hairy?"

The Treasury declined to comment but a spokeswoman for the Department for Culture, Media & Sport said that "protection of the vulnerable and strong industry regulation", rather than revenue and tax, are at the heart of the Gambling Act, which will come into effect in September.

Fearful of future extradition and constantly looking over their shoulders, Britain's online companies have gone unusually quiet, but privately there is mounting frustration over what they see as double standards.

"There is a poker and gaming website in the United States run by a Texan, who moves freely around the US, as does the famous actress who stars in his TV commercials and only recently closed her own online gaming company that had customers in America," says one British gaming executive. "Why don't the US authorities arrest the pair of them?"

Others feel more confident about running gaming websites within the US and seem prepared to test the DoJ's resolve. Lee Jones of PokerStars.com, based in the Isle of Man, told The Sunday Telegraph: "We are still offering our services to poker players in the US and have got expert legal advice both within and outside PokerStars and believe we are operating a legal service. Beyond that we are not able to give you any comment."

However, last Wednesday the PokerStars management posted a message to its US customers on "2+2", a popular poker forum on the web. It reads: "Despite recent matters our position remains the same; PokerStars continues to offer its services to US players. You may play on our site as you did prior to the recent developments. This new legislation is not aimed at players and does not change the legality of playing online poker."

How long such businesses, and indeed those operators who have reluctantly closed down their websites to the US, can hold out before the DoJ comes knocking is anyone's guess. After all, as one source says: "The DoJ is going after those who have closed in America with charges of illegal online gambling before the Bush administration clarified the situation with a bill in October.

"It would not be going to all this trouble if it wasn't hell-bent on getting some results, which means there will be more scalps."
 

jackson9

EOG Member
Re: Major info about Neteller

What I'm wondering is how do international money laundering laws apply in this case? Could they use the money laundering laws that were originally enacted for narcotics and terrorism to seize neteller funds?

I would think that the UK and US would have agreements to cooperate on money laundering.
 

UBetData

EOG Senior Member
Re: Major info about Neteller

MAN... This sh*t gets worst everyday.

How many would consider moving?
 

devilmann

EOG Addicted
Re: Major info about Neteller

What I'm wondering is how do international money laundering laws apply in this case? Could they use the money laundering laws that were originally enacted for narcotics and terrorism to seize neteller funds?

I would think that the UK and US would have agreements to cooperate on money laundering.


You can bet your ass they (the US Gov) have lawyers looking into this right now.

I posted a couple days ago that I thought that this was going to happen:
http://forums.eog.com/online-sports...cussion/neteller-transfers-stopped-70643.html

My guess is the DOJ will either try to outright seize money from Neteller or they will tie it up until a system can be put into place that allows for money in each US members account to tracked. Once this has been done something similar to a 1099 tax form could be issued for each US customer ... that is if they get their money back.
 

MoneyManager

EOG Enthusiast
Re: Major info about Neteller

If the Brits push back because of public and political pressure in England --- and tell the DOJ to "stay home", that will be interesting to see if it;s important enough to run off one of our last supposedly good allies. DOJ is not showing much respect for Brit's laws and citizens.

The DOJ, "The USA make all the laws in this here world! If you do not respect our decisions, we will come get you no matter where or who you are!"

They may find out world domination can be tough. It is not fun for the rest of the world. They may only play along, but not for long.
 

janus

EOG Dedicated
Re: Major info about Neteller

Actually, DICK, I'm pretty sure we all ALREADY FUCKING KNEW we couldn't fucking use neteller to fund sportsbooks, SO NO, it wasn't dumbassed.

Why the fuck do I care about peer to peer if I can't fund a sportsbook.

You're gonna pay to deposit there, then pay to xfer to a friend, then have him deposit and then when you get back have him withdraw and xfer to you again minus fees and then put it in your bank. YEAH, THAT'S AN OPTION...NOT

How many people actually use neteller for anything else.

FUCK OFF dickmunch.

I was just giving the guy a hard time and you come in like you're somebody on a fucking horse. Kiss my ass.

2 dumbass posts now... keep rackin em up, jackass.
 

janus

EOG Dedicated
Re: Major info about Neteller

fair enough... while the FBI related line in the initial post didnt affect me personally (i got out of NT in time), a very good friend of mine has six figures locked in there. the 2-1-07 announcement by NT and the revelation that the FBI may be "locking funds in court" means that his attempts to get his money out of NT by way of P2P xfers with canadian members who send him checks back to his US bank are now cutoff. he was not trying to use P2P send money back out to books, just to get out. so for him (and ALOT of others), the news was "major info about neteller", as the thread is titled.
 

The General

Another Day, Another Dollar
Re: Major info about Neteller

janus, I fully understand your concern and IMO, it is a Major one for most US citizens with their money caught up in this mess the US Govt has created for its own citizens. Patriotism is something I do not feel these dayz.
 

The General

Another Day, Another Dollar
Re: Major info about Neteller

On a side note, I do not see any reason for slander nor name calling here.

Have a nice day guys.
 
Re: Major info about Neteller

shortbus, you're missing the point.
plenty of people were using peer to peer TO FUND SPORTSBOOKS.
i sent my neteller money to a foreigner, who, in turn, made a betjamaica transfer to me.
plenty of people were circumventing the rules this way and now that is done.
 
Top