Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

#1
Jun 25, 10:23 AM EDT


Court rejects death penalty for raping children
By MARK SHERMAN
Associated Press Writer




WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court on Wednesday struck down a law that allows the execution of people convicted of a raping a child.
In a 5-4 vote, the court said the Louisiana law allowing the death penalty to be imposed in such cases violates the Constitution's ban on cruel and unusual punishment.
"The death penalty is not a proportional punishment for the rape of a child," Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote in his majority opinion. His four liberal colleagues joined him, while the four more conservative justices dissented.
There has not been an execution in the United States for a crime that did not also involve the death of the victim in 44 years.
Patrick Kennedy, 43, was sentenced to death for the rape of his 8-year-old stepdaughter in Louisiana. He is one of two people in the United States, both in Louisiana, who have been condemned to death for a rape that was not also accompanied by a killing.
The Supreme Court banned executions for rape in 1977 in a case in which the victim was an adult woman.
Forty-five states ban the death penalty for any kind of rape, and the other five states allow it for child rapists. Kennedy's case is the only time a state has sought to execute someone. Montana, Oklahoma, South Carolina and Texas allow executions in such cases if the defendant had previously been convicted of raping a child.
? 2008 The Associated

News from The Associated Press
 
#2
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

Since tomorrow is the last day of the term, we will get the Heller gun case decision then. Bet on the Supremes to strike down the D.C. gun ban. . . .:bank:
 
#4
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

This is bull, I believe there should be an "eye for an eye" view on this kind of issues.
 
#6
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

Not only should the death penalty apply here, it should
be by hanging.
Hell, they used to hang you for stealing a horse back in the
day when our Constitution was not the twisted
legal pretzel that it is now.
 
#9
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

You mean bad decision?

Whats tough about it?
If they need someone to pull that lever I'm available 24/7
No, I didn't say bad.

Had I been sitting on the bench for this decision, I would have had an extremely difficult time not removing my emotions from my decision. I have twin daughters that are 10 and the thought of someone hurting them is my worst nightmare.

So I would have wrestled with that and, hopefully, I would have been able to decide the case based upon the law, not my feelings.
 
#10
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

If the Constitution calls for the death penalty in the
case of treason then I am sure that it would also
be ok with most of the founding fathers to apply it to
raping children.
i would not struggle with that decision for a second
it the man was guilty.
 
#11
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

Once more, by the numbers: 1) If the penalty for child sexual assault is death, why would the perpetrator leave a witness alive? Obviously, many would not leave the child alive. Thus, the death penalty for child sexual assault leaves children less safe. 2) 90% of child sexual assaults are committed by a family member or close friend. Many would be hesitant to turn Uncle Bob in if he was to be put to death. Therefore, less child sexual assaults will be reported, leaving children less safe. And finally, 3) Our constitutional rights are thankfully not subject to popular vote by the mob. They arise out of and are protected by the text of the Constitution. The Constitution protects everyone from the overarching power of the government, even those the mob would deem unworthy of such protections. . . .
 
#13
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

Just takin' a break from the salt mine, and lookin' for the nugget of info to enable me to cash the winning ticket. . . .:cheers
 
#14
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

If the Constitution calls for the death penalty in the
case of treason then I am sure that it would also
be ok with most of the founding fathers to apply it to
raping children.
i would not struggle with that decision for a second
it the man was guilty.
Article III, Section 3 states the following:

<emp>"Section 3.</emp> Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted."



No where does the Constitution state what the "punishment" for treason is.
 
#16
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

Jun 25, 10:23 AM EDT

Court rejects death penalty for raping children
By MARK SHERMAN
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court on Wednesday struck down a law that allows the execution of people convicted of a raping a child.

In a 5-4 vote, the court said the Louisiana law allowing the death penalty to be imposed in such cases violates the Constitution's ban on cruel and unusual punishment.

"The death penalty is not a proportional punishment for the rape of a child," Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote in his majority opinion. His four liberal colleagues joined him, while the four more conservative justices dissented.
? 2008 The Associated

News from The Associated Press
Well, there you go.

That's all you need to know.

The five liberal Supreme Court justices decided to let a child rapist live.

The conservative members dissented.

These five liberal Supreme Court justices have already proven themselves to be soft on terrorists.

Now they have been proven to be soft on child rapists.

Is that the kind of Supreme Court you want?

Apparently so if you plan to vote for Barack Obama.

For you can expect more of the same if Barack Obama is elected.

Munchkin Man
 
#17
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

Well, there you go.

That's all you need to know.

The five liberal Supreme Court justices decided to let a child rapist live.

The conservative members dissented.

These five liberal Supreme Court justices have already proven themselves to be soft on terrorists.

Now they have been proven to be soft on child rapists.

Is that the kind of Supreme Court you want?

Apparently so if you plan to vote for Barack Obama.

For you can expect more of the same if Barack Obama is elected.

Munchkin Man
What?

None of the liberals here on this board can put up a defense against this one?

The Munchkin Man isn't surprised.

There is no defense against this one.

No matter how hard you try, there is no way to spin yourself out of this one.

Barack Obama has already expressed his verbal support for the Gitmo terrorist decision.

John McCain spoke out against it.

Here is what John McCain recently had to say about the type of Supreme Court justices he would nominate if elected:
_____

"I have my own standards of judicial ability, experience, philosophy, and temperament. And Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito meet those standards in every respect. They would serve as the model for my own nominees if that responsibility falls to me."

(Senator John McCain, at Wake Forest University, May 06, 2008)

John McCain 2008 - John McCain for President
_____

Justice Roberts and Justice Alito were both in the minority camp when both the Gitmo terrorist decision and the child rapist decision were handed down.

The implications are crystal clear.

A vote for Barack Obama is a vote for the terrorists.

A vote for Barack Obama is a vote for the pedophiles.

The sides are clearly drawn.

Whose side are you on?

Munchkin Man
 
#18
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

As if raping a child is not cruel. This just shows and proves that the legal system is soft and we are getting used to crime.
 
#20
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

I say kill the creep.

But really, the death penalty isn't really the death penalty anyway. We make a big deal of sentencing some airhead to death, but very few death row inmates are ever killed. Bring out a high profile guy once in awhile, for show.. Most of these guys just waste away forever on Death Row.
 
#21
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" width="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">Personally I would say kill the fker.
but....
the supreme court job is to uphold the constitution....i believe they did that in this case....
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#22
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

The death penalty hasn't seemed to deter murder, do you really think it would deter child rape?
I can tell you that with 100% certainty that it deters one
person from repeating the crime.
So that is one less person to worry about!
 
#23
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

Supreme Court just like the rest of this government.....F*%ked UP. I don't really care any more. 12io4j2w90
 
#24
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

I can tell you that with 100% certainty that it deters one
person from repeating the crime.
So that is one less person to worry about!
If that's the only consideration, then we should have the death penalty for speeding. After all, that would surely have a great deterrent effect, right???
 
#25
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

If that's the only consideration, then we should have the death penalty for speeding. After all, that would surely have a great deterrent effect, right???
Of course it would. I think people who are willing to commit any type of cruelty do it because they have nothing to fear anymore, give them something be scared of and I am sure we will all be better. :hangt
 
#26
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

What?

None of the liberals here on this board can put up a defense against this one?
Though I don't think you know what "liberal" means outside of a Rush broadcast, there probably has been no response to this post because of who posted it. . . .:bank:
 

ironmike67

EOG Senior Member
#27
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

Once more, by the numbers: 1) If the penalty for child sexual assault is death, why would the perpetrator leave a witness alive? Obviously, many would not leave the child alive. Thus, the death penalty for child sexual assault leaves children less safe. 2) 90% of child sexual assaults are committed by a family member or close friend. Many would be hesitant to turn Uncle Bob in if he was to be put to death. Therefore, less child sexual assaults will be reported, leaving children less safe. And finally, 3) Our constitutional rights are thankfully not subject to popular vote by the mob. They arise out of and are protected by the text of the Constitution. The Constitution protects everyone from the overarching power of the government, even those the mob would deem unworthy of such protections. . . .
GREAT POST I'M WITH YOU NICK!

" If you give the death penalty to rapists, why would they ever leave the victim alive "

Use yer brain man and open yer eyes .

If a rapist knows with full certainty that the result of his cruel and vile act. Would be his swift execution. Then he would think twice before engaging in that most dastardly of deeds. A very wiseman once said an once of "prevention is worth a pound of cure". Let me go more into depth if I may so you might understand. The sick twisted cowardly pervert ...{ just like the American judicial system that allows acts like rape to continue ...Hello Mr. Johnson...I know you are reading this....sorry friends I digress back to our discussion}... realizes that he will be a dead man as a consequence of diabolical actions. He just might control himself and no engage in the assualt. Nip this nonsense in the bud stage. But that is not going to happen in America of today career criminals are coddled treated like Kings in gaol on the taxpayer's dime. Then they are sent free to continue a life of mayhem and evil.

" After all, what do they have to lose ? "

The thing the miscreant treasures most his life. Which like a mind is a terrible thing to lose.

A sure punishment stops many but not all problems before they occur. Good men need no laws , bad ones do not obey them .It is the undecided in the middle you discourage with capital justice .

" Moreover, 90% of all child rapes are committed by family members."

Where do you get this dribble from are you a state psychologist at an American University who likes to place a wager on the Astros in his spare time ???

I want facts not assumptions. Your stats seem way out of whack !!

" Who is going to turn in uncle bob if he's going to be put to death ??? "

They do not report Uncle Robert now a days to the proper authorities , because they know his court appointed attorney With the able assistance of his legally mandated psychiatrist will get him 1-3 in the state pen then he will be right back out doing it again. He got away with it in the first place that is why America is full of career criminals & repeat offenders who show legal system to be a farce. Do not believe turn on your telly, listen to the Radio or read a newspaper.

Start sending Uncle Robert to the gallows for his appointment with the infernal regions .The message would get out the sicko times are over. Society duty as whole is to protect the defenseless child. Not pat Uncle Robbie on the head and say it was only a minor indiscretion have no fear with good behavior you do less than a year. I know then your 90% stat :+signs15-
would drop like titanic.

" You were born with a mind, USE IT "

No offence offered or disrespect intended but are using yours correctly.

As a bright boy once said " The road to hell is paved with good intentions of the kind hearted "


:hung :hung :hung :hung



Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by G. K. TEMUJIN

Are you serious ???

Do you really believe this utter nonsense you peddle ????

?Here's a link to a news story that uses the 90% statistic. It actually states that 90% of child molestations are committed by persons known to the child, which is not quite equal to family member, though it doesn't change the analysis much.?


No here is a link to story of a Women.

{ who if you had correctly read & comprehended the slanted so called news information article. She has a vested interest in sex offenders parolees , no parolees no job for her !! }

Who makes an unfounded , unsourced and unverifiable claim "Most people don't want to accept that more than 90 percent of child molestations are committed by people the family knows," said Doris Mahlum who supervises about 250 sex offender parolees. Source North County Times Serving San Diego and Riverside Counties Saturday, November 4, 2006 10:45 PM PST
A fact she pulls out of thin air. No documentation what so ever. Lets take her as Gospel at face value. No proof for that claim.

What evidence to backup that statement ???

For example :

?90% of your m&ms in a box of 100 are red? stated Mahlum Dorison supplier of red food coloring . To bad facts show in a box one third are at least green , blue and yellow."

You are right it does not change the analysis much if her clients were in the cemetery, instead of out on the playground searching for the next victim or in your world statistics. Doris would not be stealing the taxpayers dollars , but looking for honest employment !!

If the ********s were executed they would not reoffend ?.. Well would they ???

Of course not their days of ruining children?s lives would be over.
But the article shows us what a racket it is. Money is being made off the most defenseless & members of society. A lot of people in California judicial system would be out having to find real jobs to do. Instead of pulling the wool over people eyes with legal mumbo-jumbo .The article goes on to state ? One of the main opponents to the measure is the California Attorneys for Criminal Justice, a statewide organization made up of criminal defense attorneys ?. Surprise, Surprise , Surprise if you exuted our clients we would have no one to represent. We can not have that.
?I originally obtained the statistic from the Department of Justice website, and I will locate the page and link to it later, though I don't have time right now to mount a comprehensive search.?

Excuses , Excuses , Excuses ?.

No time to mount a comprehensive search ?

Come on it is a keyword search you have to do , not run the Boston Marathon.

My granddaughter can do a key phrase search in five minutes on a slow day.

What is the problem with Google , yahoo and other keyword search engines if this so called statistic existed you should have no problem finding it ???

But you have time to post in other threads ??? Ok


?Also, very few criminals do a cost/benefit analysis before committing a crime; if they did so, most would not commit the crime?


This is most illogical and unreasoned statement you have made. And viewing your posts that a lot of poorly analyzed pronouncements? to choose from.

Every single criminal always does a cost / benefit analysis before committing the crime.

Example.

Lets use the State of Florida

Thief one simple. I want money. I am to lazy to work for it. Since it is much easier to take what does not belong me. I shall steal a woman?s purse. I will stake out my victims in this here parking lot. Two possible victims are spotted. Which one Does the robber pick ?

Let see do I steal that little old lady?s purse or that young woman with the fanny pack.


Cost / benefit analysis time both have wallets but the which wallet to steal ?



Getting out Ones older slower carrying groceries has bag on her shoulder. First of the month probably just cashed her pension & social security checks. Possibly lots of cash for the taking. The other much younger . But she has an FBI t-shirt on. With a bulge on her right hip what shall that object be ? Oh look she is walking a massive pit bull on a leash !!!

The thief decides on the old woman easier mark. Why probably has more money on her . She is walking with a cane. Looks very frail and sickly .Has thick I glasses and a hearing aid. Knocks her down and he takes off to town with his ill gotten gain.

Why did he chose her ?

An easy $ 600.00 theft. Lots of gain relatively little risk with harmless old woman.

The other person may have let the dog attack him. As she flees from him while clutching her wallet. Besides Dog bites hurt criminals are cowards and do not like pain. Jogging shorts fanny pack maybe not that much cash on hand. What that thing on her hip a cell phone ???

Since he is a predatory animals that prey on the weak..... cost / benefit analysis is not worth it...... Yes he is a stupid stealer , but he is not a total moron. He is not going to the hospital for a possibly a few lousy dollars. Could be much pain for very little reward.

Oh did I forget to mention the first person that walked by was a man nice gold chain around his neck. Very expensive diamond wedding ring on his finger. But the gentleman was approximant 32 years of age , height 6?2? , weight 240 lbs. Marines tattooed on his very big forearm. The benefit loaded with cash cost the guy without doubt would pound the daylights out the thief .That is a definite no play must pass to save his A$$.

Besides he knows if apprehend by the police. His public defender will get him off with a slap on the wrist. Even he cracks her skull it is not his fault .She silped so what if she dies. He is the important one. Life is good for many criminals in America.

?Thus, enlarging the death-penalty eligible crimes will not have any effect on the crime rate.?

WRONG !!! GIVE IT A TRY . MANY NO GO AREAS OF YOUR COUNTRY WOULD ONCE AGAIN BE A VERY SAFE PLACE FOR DECENT PEOPLE.

?For more support, compare the murder rates in states that have the death penalty with states that don't have the death penalty; you will find that death penalty states actually have a higher murder rate.?

NO SIR I SHALL NOT.

YOU SHOW ME THE EVEDINCE SITED IN AT LEAST 6 DIFFFERENT VARIFABLE SOURCES.

WELL THE ABOVE STATEMENT IS A FACTUALY IN ACCURATE STATEMENT MEANT TO MISLEAD. I HAPPY AM NOT THAT IGNORANT OR DELUDED.

STATE {A} EXECUTE THREE INMATES IN ONE YEAR. AFTER MANY YEARS, 17 ON AVERAGE, SITTING ON DEATH ROW. YOU KNOW WELL FED , TELLY , CONJUGAL VISITS. YOUR CORRECT NO DIE TERRORENT. THE SAME STATE LOST 1,278 CITIZENS TO SENSELESS VIOLENCE . IN THE SAME YEAR.

STATE {B} NO DEATH PENATLY . HAD 1,154 FOLKS MUDERED BY MINDLESS THUGS.ALSO IN THE SAME YEAR.
SO BOTH STATES CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM ARE USELESS AT PROTECTING THE PEOPLE.

I realize that "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" feels good, but I'm looking for solutions that are effective, not ones that just "feel good."

This has nothing to with feelings. It is a Very effective means of lowering the murder rate if properly applied by a strong people with a backbone.

I say unequivocally we will not accept murder, rapist or child ********s to ruin the quality of life for decent people period end of discussion debate over.

You on the other hand to seek to protect those would do harm to others.

I seek to rid them from the earthly boundaries so we can all get on with living a happy safe and prosperous life. This is no feel good solution. Society must effectively protect all members of the community a swift capital punishment is the way to accomplish that lofty goal.

?KILL ALL THE CONVICTED MURDER?S , RAPISTS & CHILD ********S?
? GOD SHALL KNOW HIS OWN?

ARE YOU PREPARED UNCLE ROBERTO TIME HAS COME TO MEET YOUR MAKER. :hung

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 
#28
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

I can tell you that with 100% certainty that it deters one
person from repeating the crime.
So that is one less person to worry about!
My statement wasn't about a "repeat" offender. I stated that the death penalty doesn't seem to deter murder, especially in the states that use the death penalty the most.

I'm asking this: If the death penalty doesn't deter murder, why would it deter child rape?
 

ironmike67

EOG Senior Member
#29
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

Maybe if states that actually had a so called death penalty used it quickly and effectively it would then become a real deterrent!
 
#30
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

If you believe that the death penalty actually has any deterrent effect whatsoever, then why does the State of Texas, which prides itself on being death penalty central, have a higher murder rate than most of the states that have no death penalty????
 
#31
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

[SIZE=+2]The correct answer is that the death penalty hasn't shown to have any deterrent effect against murder. . . .
A Death Penalty Puzzle


A Death Penalty Puzzle
[/SIZE]
The Murky Evidence for and Against Deterrence
[SIZE=-1]By Cass R. Sunstein and Justin Wolfers
Monday, June 30, 2008; A11
[/SIZE]
Although the Supreme Court banned capital punishment for child rape last week, the justices have made it clear that for homicide, states may inflict the ultimate penalty. Last month, capital punishment resumed after a seven-month moratorium. Rapid scheduling of executions followed the Supreme Court's ruling in Baze v. Rees, reaffirming the constitutionality of the death penalty in general and lethal injection in particular.
To support their competing conclusions on the legal issue, different members of the court invoked work by each of us on the deterrent effects of the death penalty. Unfortunately, they misread the evidence.
Justice John Paul Stevens cited recent research by Wolfers (with co-author John Donohue) to justify the claim that "there remains no reliable statistical evidence that capital punishment in fact deters potential offenders." Justice Antonin Scalia cited a suggestion by Sunstein (with co-author Adrian Vermeule) that "a significant body of recent evidence" shows "that capital punishment may well have a deterrent effect, possibly a quite powerful one."
What does the evidence actually say?
One approach notes that in states with the death penalty, the average murder rate is about 40 percent higher than in states without the death penalty. Yet such comparisons are surely confounded by other influences, as those states that impose the death penalty also have a historic culture of violence, including lynching.
If we compare countries, the United States has higher execution and higher homicide rates than nearly all other industrialized countries. Here, too, many alternative explanations remain, making it hazardous to conclude that the death penalty does not deter murder.
Other studies have evaluated changes in homicide rates over time. In the 1960s, as the death penalty fell into disuse, homicide rates rose sharply, leading some studies to infer a deterrent effect. Moreover, a large-scale decline in homicide in the past two decades coincided with renewed use of the death penalty. Countering this, homicide and execution rates rose together in the 1920s and early 1930s, then fell together through the 1940s and 1950s. Because conclusions are so sensitive to the time period evaluated, these studies fail to provide much help.
More sophisticated studies compare the evolution of homicide rates across jurisdictions. Over the past six decades, the homicide rate in Canada has tracked that in the United States even as the countries' punishment policies have diverged sharply. Similarly, the 12 states that have not executed a prisoner since 1960 comprise a useful comparison group; murder rates in these states have largely tracked those in states that subsequently adopted or rejected the death penalty.
One might like to conclude that these latter studies demonstrate that the death penalty does not deter. But this is asking too much of the data. The number of homicides is so large, and varies so much year to year, that it is impossible to disentangle the effects of execution policy from other changes affecting murder rates. Moreover, execution policy doesn't change often or much. Just as a laboratory scientist with too few experimental subjects cannot draw strong conclusions, the best we can say is that homicide rates are not closely associated with capital punishment. On the basis of existing evidence, it is especially hard to justify claims about causality.
Justice Stevens argues, "In the absence of such evidence, deterrence cannot serve as a sufficient penological justification for this uniquely severe and irrevocable punishment." Perhaps. But the absence of evidence of deterrence should not be confused with evidence of absence.
Justice Scalia relies on the suggestion by Sunstein and Vermeule that some evidence suggests a possible deterrent effect. But that suggestion actually catalyzed Donohue and Wolfers's study of available empirical evidence. Existing studies contain significant statistical errors, and slightly different approaches yield widely varying findings, a problem exacerbated by researchers' tendency to report only those results supporting their conclusions. This led Sunstein and Vermeule to acknowledge: "We do not know whether deterrence has been shown. . . . Nor do we conclude that the evidence of deterrence has reached some threshold of reliability that permits or requires government action."
In short, the best reading of the accumulated data is that they do not establish a deterrent effect of the death penalty.
Why is the Supreme Court debating deterrence? A prominent line of reasoning, endorsed by several justices, holds that if capital punishment fails to deter crime, it serves no useful purpose and hence is cruel and unusual, violating the Eighth Amendment. This reasoning tracks public debate as well. While some favor the death penalty on retributive grounds, many others (including President Bush) argue that the only sound reason for capital punishment is to deter murder.
We concur with Scalia that if a strong deterrent effect could be demonstrated, a plausible argument could be made on behalf of executions. But what if the evidence is inconclusive?
We are not sure how to answer that question. But as executions resume, the debates over the death penalty should not be distorted by a misunderstanding of what the evidence actually shows.
Cass R. Sunstein is the Felix Frankfurter Professor of Law at Harvard Law School. Justin Wolfers is assistant professor of business and public policy at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School.
 
#32
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

My statement wasn't about a "repeat" offender. I stated that the death penalty doesn't seem to deter murder, especially in the states that use the death penalty the most.

I'm asking this: If the death penalty doesn't deter murder, why would it deter child rape?
I truly think it would if the "justice" system would move much more swiftly.
Also, prisons need to be prisons. Not a place that has tv, basketball,
weights, hot water, and 3 square meals.
In my perfect world a prison would consist of a 8x8 single person cell in
which you stayed 24/7. You would have a bucket and a toilet. You
could have any Religious books you wanted as well as books to educate
yourself and you would have a meal that consisted of cereal, vegetables
bread and some fruit. It would be a place where you would not want
to be going back to again.
And as for death row, there would be no such thing as sitting on death row
for years waiting on appeals. All death row appeal cases would be moved
to the front of the case dockets and would be done within one or two years.
As it is now the punishment doesn't really fit the crime.

Justice? Justice for who?
 
#33
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

Genesis of a killer
  • Carl Isaacs' attorney sheds light on his client's life before the infamous Alday murders.
MARK PASSWATERS
STAFF WRITER

ALBANY ? Atlanta attorney John R. Martin thought it necessary to remind the state Board of Pardons and Paroles last week that his client "is not the devil."
<table align="right" border="1" cellspacing="0" width="43%"> <tbody><tr> <td> SECOND IN A THREE-PART SERIES
SUNDAY: Seminole Countians still ache after 30 years.
? TODAY: Carl Isaacs: Profile of the killer and his impact on society.
??COMING TUESDAY: A look at Carl Isaacs' final day and the execution process.
Visit albanyherald.com to read the first installment of this series.​
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> As Carl Isaacs' date with Georgia's death chamber looms, his lawyer is working diligently to put a human face on a man the news media have portrayed, in Martin's words, as "the embodiment of evil."
For the Georgia Department of Corrections, Isaacs is inmate No. 380006 and is scheduled to be executed at 7 p.m. Tuesday for six murders, all committed in a single afternoon 30 years ago this month at the Alday family farm near Donalsonville.
Isaacs is thought to be the longest surviving death row inmate in America. Having represented him for the past seven years, Martin says he wants the world to know that today, at 49, Isaacs is not "the same damaged, out of control youth who committed awful crimes at the age of 19."
Isaacs' mother, Betty, already had five children by another man when she married George Isaacs. They had seven more together. The 12 children grew up dirt poor in more or less dilapidated housing in Maryland and Pennsylvania, according to Martin. Betty and George Isaacs were both heavy drinkers, and Martin says Betty Isaacs would often disappear for days at a time to "carouse with male friends."
The children's teachers occasionally sent them home to wash their clothes because the smell was disruptive, Martin said. They rarely got enough to eat and never saw doctors or dentists.
<table align="right" border="1" cellspacing="0" width="43%"> <tbody><tr> <td> THE OTHER 3 Carl Isaacs was traveling with three others when he led the murders of the Aldays. Here is what has happened to the others:
WAYNE COLEMAN:
? Half brother of Carl Isaacs
? Age: 56
? Escaped from Maryland minimum security prison with Isaacs and George Dungee in April 1973.
? Sentenced to death by Seminole County Jury in 1974 for his role in the Alday murders.
? Had murder sentence thrown out by the U.S. 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in 1985.
? Retried in 1988; received a life sentence after DeKalb County Jury deadlocked on giving him the death sentence.
? Currently in prison and eligible for parole.
GEORGE DUNGEE:
? Friend of Isaacs and Coleman
? Age: 65
? Sentenced to death in 1974 by a Seminole County jury for his role in the Alday murders.
? Had his murder sentence thrown out by the U.S. 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in 1985.
? Retried in 1988, received a life sentence.
? Remains in prison, but is eligible for parole.
BILLY ISAACS:
? Younger brother of Carl Isaacs; joined group after they escaped from prison.
? Was present at the murders of the Aldays, but claimed he did not to play a role in the killings.
? Turned state's evidence and testified against his brother, Coleman and Dungee
? Received 40-year prison sentence for armed robbery and burglary; served nine years before being released in 1993.
? Also served a prison sentence in Maryland for murder.
? Has been released from prison and is believed to be living on St. George Island, Fla.
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> George Isaacs, fed up with his wife's infidelity, abandoned the family when Carl was 10. Not long after, Betty Isaacs turned her children over to a social services agency in Maryland, leaving Carl and his siblings and half siblings to move from one foster home to another.
In asking the parole board to commute Isaacs' sentence to life without parole ? a request the panel denied after about an hour's deliberation ? Martin said Isaacs discovered sometime later that his mother was living near one of his foster homes and sought her out.
"She told him to go back to the foster home and not to contact her again," Martin wrote in his petition to the board. "Although she lived within a half mile, she never contacted her children."
Struggling in school, Isaacs found something he was good at when he was 15: breaking the law. A year later, he was imprisoned for breaking and entering and stealing an automobile.
When he was 19, Isaacs was sent to an adult prison in the wake of another breaking and entering arrest in Maryland. Only two days after he arrived there, a riot broke out at the prison, Martin says. Young and inexperienced, Isaacs was raped repeatedly by the rioting inmates from 6 p.m. until 2:30 a.m., according to his lawyer, whose petition notes that, after treatment at the prison hospital, Isaacs was transferred to a "non-secure facility," Poplar Hill Correctional Camp.
Isaacs' half brother Wayne Coleman was already serving time at Poplar Hill. Coleman, 26 at the time, had befriended another inmate there, George Dungee. The three escaped together on April 25, 1973.
They decided to go to Florida, picking up Isaacs' 15-year-old brother, Billy, before heading south. "They supported themselves with burglaries and robberies along the way," Martin said.
After about three weeks on the road, the four men were driving through rural Seminole County and were nearly out of gas. As they passed a mobile home owned by Jerry Alday and his wife, Mary, the escapees thought they saw a gas pump.
There was no pump, but the trailer was empty and they decided to break in and steal what they could. Isaacs and Coleman were inside when Billy Isaacs warned them that two men were approaching in a Jeep. Jerry Alday and his father, Ned, were met at the door by Isaacs, who ordered them inside at gunpoint.
After emptying their pockets, the two men were taken to bedrooms at either end of the mobile home. Isaacs shot Jerry Alday to death, then walked to the north bedroom, where Coleman was waiting with Ned Alday. Both Coleman and Isaacs shot Ned to death, according to a court summary of the facts, which Isaacs does not dispute.
Not long after the first two murders, Jerry's brother, Jimmy Alday, drove up on a tractor, went to the back door of the trailer and knocked. Coleman opened the door, stuck a pistol in his face and ordered him inside. He was taken to the living room and told to lie on the sofa. When he did so, Isaacs shot him to death.
Isaacs then went outside to move the tractor, which Jimmy Alday had parked in front of the killers' car. As he did, Mary Alday ? Jerry's wife ? drove up.
Isaacs forced her inside and began to "accost" her, according to Georgia Supreme Court records, but was interrupted ? for a while at least ? when Ned's brother, Aubrey, and another of Ned's sons, Chester Alday, drove up in a pickup truck.
Leaving Coleman and Dungee to watch Mary, Isaacs and his 15-year-old brother went outside to confront the two. At gunpoint, Aubrey was taken to the south bedroom (where his nephew had been murdered earlier) and Isaacs shot him to death. Chester Alday was taken to the north bedroom and killed by Coleman.
Both Coleman and Isaacs then raped Mary Alday on the kitchen table.
"Mary was the only one who put up a fight," Isaacs said a year later during a series of interviews with former Albany Herald State Editor Charles Postell. "The rest just lay down and got shot. They just lay down and died."
After raping their final victim at the mobile home, the men drove Mary Alday to a thickly wooded area several miles away. She was beaten and raped again, then Dungee killed her.
Leaving their car in the woods, the men drove Mary Alday's car to Alabama, abandoning it there and stealing another vehicle.
They were captured a few days later in West Virginia. They still had the guns they had used to slaughter the Alday family, as well as some of the family's belongings.
Martin claimed in his petition last week that Isaacs had expressed remorse for the murders, but The Herald could find no record of any direct statements by the killer that he regretted his actions on May 14, 1973.
His opportunities to do so now are limited by law. Georgia death row inmates are barred from speaking with the media ? an opportunity Isaacs seemed to relish in the mid-1970s.
At that time, he expressed anything but sorrow for his actions.
"I'd like to get out and kill more of them. They represent the type (of) society I don't like," he said in 1975. "(The Aldays) loved church so damn much. ... Working people don't do a damn thing for me."
While discussing another murder for which he admitted responsibility, Isaacs had this to say: "I don't think of him or any other bastard I've killed, particularly the Aldays. Why should I feel sorry for them? They should feel sorry for me. I'm the one on death row."
In another interview, Isaacs said: "Now, there may be a God, but he ain't got no bearing whatsoever on my case or my life at all. If he did, I wouldn't be on death row. I'd still be on the street."
After his first conviction and death sentence in a 1974 trial ? a trial in which his brother Billy testified for the prosecution ? Carl Isaacs said he would like nothing better than to kill Billy.
"If he were free and I were free, he would be the first person I would kill," Isaacs said. "Have I told you how much I'd love to kill little Billy? I started to kill him several times, but I didn't. I should have killed him."
Billy Isaacs received a 20-year sentence followed by an additional jail term in Maryland. He has since been released from prison and is thought to be living on St. George Island, Fla., ? about a two-hour drive from the site of the murders.
During another interview, Isaacs said he would kill any inmate who attempted to change the channel the night the annual Country Music Awards show was telecast from Nashville, Tenn.
"I sure hope nobody gives me trouble about what channel we're going to watch," he said with a laugh. "I'd hate to kill anyone over Loretta (Lynn)."
Isaacs also appeared to enjoy the notoriety he had received from the murders, comparing himself to John Dillinger.
"Damn, did he terrorize people. ... If they got in his way, he killed them. And they made a damn movie about him. He killed 16 people before the FBI killed him. I killed 15 myself," Isaacs said, "and I ain't near as old as Dillinger." At the time of this interview, Isaacs was 21. Dillinger was 32 when he was killed.
Isaacs' ego took over if he was compared to other murderers.
During a critique of other infamous killers, Isaacs rejected any comparison to Charles Manson, saying Manson was of "low intelligence."
"If I'm of low intelligence, how come I've got my (GED)?" he said.
Isaacs, Coleman and Dungee were found guilty of killing the Aldays by a Seminole County jury. All three were sentenced to death in 1974.
He tried twice to escape from prison ? in 1980 and again in 1985. Neither attempt succeeded.
Just more than a decade after the original convictions, all three men were granted new trials by the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta. The court ruled there was no way the men could have received a fair trial in Seminole County duty to the publicity surrounding the crime.
Isaacs was retried in January 1988, and his runaway mouth helped land him back on death row.
"In some cases, we actually had more evidence than they had at the first trial," said Pataula Circuit District Attorney Charles Ferguson, who prosecuted Isaacs at his second trial. The jury at that trial not only heard the comments Isaacs made to The Herald, but also a TV interview and other taped conversations in which he said he would kill the Alday family all over again if given the chance.
"We had the tape this producer, Flemming 'Tex' Fuller, made. He interviewed some inmates on death row in North Carolina and Georgia, and fortunately, one of those was Isaacs," Ferguson recalled. "They heard him talk about it in his own words."
The second trial took six days. Isaacs' lack of remorse, both during the trial and as evidenced by the tapes, helped seal his fate.
"(The death sentence) was for the simple fact that not once in the trial ... did the man ever stand up and say he was sorry," said jury foreman Fredrick Eggler of Warner Robins in 1988. "Say, if Carl Junior Isaacs had gotten up there, just stood at his desk and told us he was sorry, I'd have to think it might have had an impact on some of the jurors."
Ferguson says he thinks the death sentence was entirely appropriate.
"By far, that was the worst case I've ever been involved in," he said. "I really haven't heard of one worse than that one, and I sincerely hope there hasn't been one worse."
At two separate retrials, Coleman and Dungee received life sentences for their roles in the murders.
Fuller used the tapes as the basis for the movie, "Murder One," which was one of two films made about the killings.
Postell, meanwhile, wrote two books about the murders. He refused to be interviewed for this article.
Isaacs' mother, when contacted by a reporter in 1979, washed her hands of any responsibility for her son's cold-blooded acts.
"I don't want them around me if they're gonna kill people," she said. "Just because they came from my body doesn't mean I got to put up with them killing people."
Martin says Isaacs has cancer now and has had his bladder removed. He concluded his appeal to the parole board by saying that "Carl Isaacs himself ... has expressed sincere remorse for his involvement in this horrible crime."
That would be a major change in attitude from Isaacs' words in one of the last interviews he granted, in 1977.
"I don't really give a damn," he said. "And if you turn me loose, I'd probably kill again if I could."



That a man like this last more than a week on
death row is a crime against the human race. I'd fry his ass in a second.
 
#34
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Legal System Is Perverted[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]by [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Charley Reese[/FONT]

" The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."
Shakespeare, HenryVI
by Charley Reese
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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]America's court system has been broken, abused and perverted by lawyers, judges and legislators.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]You would think that at least the lawyers and judges, who use the system to make a comfortable living, would have an interest in preserving it. Instead, they are the main abusers of it.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]These thoughts are prompted by the execution of Mark Dean Schwab, a 39-year-old psychopathic monster who kidnapped, raped and murdered an 11-year-old boy. The problem is that it took 16 years after his conviction to execute this piece of human dung thanks to laws, lawyers and judges. It's not justice. Neither is lethal injection. How in God's name did we become so squeamish that we have to provide a peaceful, painless death to vile and vicious criminals?[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Schwab wasn't so kind to his victim, Junny Rios-Martinez, a little boy who would have made any parent proud. I'm very proud of this boy's father, who attended the execution. The boy's father said he had vowed that his would be the last face Schwab would ever see.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Schwab was released from prison early in 1991 after serving half a sentence for raping another boy at knifepoint. Within a month, he was stalking little Junny. At the time of his trial, he boasted that he would gladly go to the electric chair if he could have a famous child actor sit on his lap. When the end finally came, he wasn't boasting about anything.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"Finally" is the key word. It shouldn't take years and even decades to execute a criminal. Two years from the day of sentencing should be the final day of the perp's life. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Virtually all of the appeals in capital cases are frivolous, filed by opponents of the death penalty who simply are trying to wreck the system.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Let's get our thoughts in order concerning the death sentence. Everybody dies. Everybody is condemned to death from the day of his or her birth. Thus, executing a criminal isn't doing anything to him that won't happen anyway. Good and decent people get death sentences every day from their doctors, and there are no appeals or stays.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]When the Founding Fathers wrote the Bill of Rights and prohibited cruel and unusual punishment, it was an era when people were burned alive, torn apart, drawn and quartered or slowly killed by any number of torture devices. Certainly, they did not consider hanging or shooting to be cruel and inhuman punishment. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]We should be neither hesitant nor squeamish about executing people who take the lives of innocent people, especially children. God knows, if we don't have enough juice to protect and, failing that, avenge the death of children, then we are a poor excuse for a society.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]We could provide university education to 10 children for the cost of keeping one of these dysfunctional human slimeballs alive for his natural life. I'd support a return to public hanging in the county where the crime was committed. Let the public come and see justice done. I'd even favor hiring a Saudi with a good, sharp sword to take the man's head off. If beheading was good enough for English royalty, it should be good enough for American animals with two legs.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]As for convicting the wrong person, that's problem with a community's police and prosecutors and sometimes incompetent defense lawyers. Clean house. Fix that problem. Don't use it as an excuse to stop the death penalty. Lawyers, who claim to be professionals, do a lousy job of policing [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]their own ranks. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Incompetent lawyers often end up as judges with nice vacations and pensions they don't deserve.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]One day, the American people may get fed up enough to vow to never elect a single lawyer to a legislative post. Then we might get some clear laws that protect the people rather than provide a lucrative living for lawyers and judges.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]July 5, 2008[/FONT]

Legal System Is Perverted by Charley Reese
 
#35
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

If you believe that the death penalty actually has any deterrent effect whatsoever, then why does the State of Texas, which prides itself on being death penalty central, have a higher murder rate than most of the states that have no death penalty????
Why do people always use the "death penalty is no deterrent" argument? The death penalty is a punishment for a crime commited. Does anyone really think that a criminal is going to stop and think "hmm, should I commit this crime because I might get the death penalty?" before commiting the crime?

The death penalty is a punishment that is received for commiting a certain type of crime.

The death penalty should not be looked at as a deterrent because that's not the purpose of it.
 
#36
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

if someone rapes or murders a child they should be hung
immediately after their conviction
 
#37
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

if someone rapes or murders a child they should be hung
immediately after their conviction
And if they were wrongly convicted? If evidence were fabricated? If due process wasn't followed, then what? The person is dead.
 
#38
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

If you believe that the death penalty actually has any deterrent effect whatsoever, then why does the State of Texas, which prides itself on being death penalty central, have a higher murder rate than most of the states that have no death penalty????
The correct answer is that the Death Penalty IS PUNISHMENT !!!!

It is so much easier to engage in the emotional groundless semantics of the Death Penalty Deterrent factor rate. Rather than address the travesty represented by the American so called criminal Justice system that fails to properly punish murders & rapists. The current & very seldom used practice of Capital Punishment as administered by the State of Texas , relative to number of people murder in said state is an absolute non factor as a deterrent . How very True Punter .


But you forgot to inform us that your State of about 24 million people executed so far this year of 2008 what around about 12 people ??? Last year 2007 , Texas executed approximately 26 people. http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/executedoffenders.htm . How many innocent citizens have been murdered & raped in Texas by brigand & thugs in the last year ??? Yes not much a deterrent because it is not used to effectively or properly is it ??? Let see New York State has a population in neighborhood of 20 million people. They have not put anyone to Death in over 44 years. But they probably have had almost as many murders & rapes as Texas. Sort of a disingenuous red herring to compare the murder rates is it not ???

You are not paying attention, 4625. . . .The costs of murder & rape on society as whole is far to much. Texans is fans is correct the Death penalty is punishment for a nefarious deed committed against society. To be a true deterrent it must Capital punishment must be administered relatively quickly after a person has been convicted of committing a heinous crime.

I am disappointed in you Punter that you have contemplated the waste and destruction instigated by the failure of the States to effectively deal with miscreants who murder. Imagine if your court system actually executed felons in a timely public manner. What a deterrent that would be for all to see. With the reduction of crime that would insure people like police , defense attorneys , bailiff's, public defenders, assistant district attorney's, court clerks, court reporters, judges, etc.etc. would have to find real work. Think how that corrupt work force would shrink to about half the size of the current behemoth. Imagine being able to cut the gaol industrial capacity by less than half. Imagine being able to relieve half of the Homicide detectives from their current duties of crime investigation & putting them to work on prevention of crimes that actually have a real victim. I don't care how good you think violent criminals are. You are destroying a nation by allowing murders to not receive the Death Penalty . What you & those genially misguide folks who believe as you do , is creating a country that thousands of times worse than the nation you grew up in. It gets worse & worse every day.

Now think about the destroyed lives and families. Think of the millions & millions of victims who are truly punished by the defective miserable wretches you defend by not. The enormity of the waste in nearly incomprehensible for the human mind to grasp. Think about the immediate effect if Texas took everyone on death role out to the gallows tomorrow . Strung them up by their guilty necks. Hung them till they were as dead as their victims. With the whole event shown on the telly or broadcast live on the world wide web.

After these legal executions imagine if the Governor came on and stated the following " This is how or states deals with murders. These individuals now sit in the presence of the final judgment . So will be punishment of anyone else who commits a similar crime !!!"

I guarantee that would be a STRONG DETERRENT !!!!


 
#39
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

The correct answer is that the Death Penalty IS PUNISHMENT !!!!

It is so much easier to engage in the emotional groundless semantics of the Death Penalty Deterrent factor rate. Rather than address the travesty represented by the American so called criminal Justice system that fails to properly punish murders & rapists. The current & very seldom used practice of Capital Punishment as administered by the State of Texas , relative to number of people murder in said state is an absolute non factor as a deterrent . How very True Punter .


How many innocent citizens have been murdered & raped in Texas by brigand & thugs in the last year ??? Yes not much a deterrent because it is not used to effectively or properly is it ??? Let see New York State has a population in neighborhood of 20 million people. They have not put anyone to Death in over 44 years. But they probably have had almost as many murders & rapes as Texas. Sort of a disingenuous red herring to compare the murder rates is it not ???

To be a true deterrent it must Capital punishment must be administered relatively quickly after a person has been convicted of committing a heinous crime.

I don't care how good you think violent criminals are. You are destroying a nation by allowing murders to not receive the Death Penalty.

Think about the immediate effect if Texas took everyone on death role out to the gallows tomorrow . Strung them up by their guilty necks.

I guarantee that would be a STRONG DETERRENT !!!!
I can understand the anger, and thirst for blood on the part of those who have been victimized. I have a few statements in response that are somewhat disconnected, however.
1) As for the crime of murder invariably and automatically earning a death sentence, the simple fact is that the citizens of Texas have spoken through their elected representatives as to what crime merit the consideration of the death penalty. Under Texas law, there must not only be an intentional homicide, but there must also be an additional predicate felony committed; i.e., arson, robbery, rape, multiple victims, etc. . .
2) As for the number of people murdered or raped "by brigands and thugs" in Texas last year, I would be willing to bet that there were none who were murdered by an offender who had been sentenced to prison for murder. . .
3) I don't think violent criminal are "good" whatsoever (notwithstanding the fact that these people are merely "accused" and therefore presumed innocent); I defend the Constitution of the United States--which applies to EVERYBODY--when I stand up. . .
4) The "quick" or immediate infliction of the death penalty is unwise solely because of the irreversibility of the punishment. Ours is a nation of laws; replete with those laws is the implicit understanding that the criminal justice system is a construct of men--who are imperfect. Considering this fact, it is understood that there will occasionally be errors committed at trial which will render the proceeding fundamentally unfair--with the result that innocent persons will be convicted. Our law--in understanding this horror--allows for an appeal process in order to more fully prevent such miscarriages of justice. Further, the law moves with studied deliberation, reasonably free from the howls of the mob. You might be aware of the incredibly high percentage of death penalty cases that are reversed on appeal or habeas corpus in Texas. I won't bore you with links to the repulsive stories detailing the release of persons who served decades-long sentences--both on and off death row--who were actually innocent. Suffice to say, the possibility that such innocents could calmly and calculatedly be put to death by my government in my name engenders in me extreme revulsion; as it should any civilized person.
4) If the death penalty is to be inflicted solely as punishment, then the deterrent arguments hold little sway. You begin with punishment in bold letters, but then revert to deterrent theory, and end with deterrent in bold letters. If deterrent theory is on the table, my observation that the death penalty does not hold any deterrent value whatsoever--as shown by figures comparing the murder rates in death penalty and non-death penalty states--has not been refuted whatsoever.
5) There are a few crimes where I would be whole-heartedly in favor of the death penalty--If I was sure we had the right guy. This is because of the unique irreversibility of the punishment. Because history, practice and common sense show that we cannot at present ever really be sure that we have the right guy, I don't believe that the death penalty can be legitimated on ethical, legal, moral, or economic grounds. . . .
 
#40
Re: Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

I sometimes wonder about the reading comprehension skills of the posters in these threads. Please no lawyer Double speak. Some straight forward talk. My post was in response to your previous post as quoted. The statement / sentiments of my post more less agree with your original post in that the state {Texas} that prides itselves on Capital Punishment is actually a farce of a punishment in comparison to a comparable state {New York} population wise which has no death penalty I totally concur , 25 convicted murders put to death in Texas compared to none New York is no deterrent what so ever in either states , because there is not that much of a difference. True it is no deterrent.

I do not know if anyone convicted of murder in Texas has committed another murder. I do know with an absolute certainly that a person convicted of murder and put to death will never harm anyone again. Undisputable fact.

Once again I believe you read words that I have not typed. I do not say accused. I never called for the cessation of due process or not following the constitution. My presentation is that a person convicted of Capital offense is a very big difference . Then being merely a suspect in a crime . Come now consular please do not confuse the issue. Once again I ask you most sincerely how many citizens were murder in 2007 & so far in 2008 in the State of Texas ??? How many in the state of New York ??? Those are the question.

Society is not a mob and must be defend. Remember victims of crimes are also protected by that same constitution you use defend all criminal defendants. As you so eloquently present in your post. The people of the state of Texas have decide that the above deeds are some of the crimes eligible for the death penalty Granted and when convicted by a jury of their peers . And after the lengthy and sometimes outrageously ridiculous appeal process , because men do make mistakes is it not time to put the miscreant to death ??? By quick , I mean after conviction a one year time period to appeal or overturn the verdict. Not 17 years on death row . That is insult to all love justice.

I refute nothing because there is nothing to refute. No deterrent because there is NO PUNISHMENT !!!

What revolts me and sickens my is any so called civilization that can not nor will not protect it's citizens.

Nor punish those who will engage in the most heinous acts with no fear impunity from society .
 
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