How do we forgive our fathers?

THE SHRINK

THE SHRINK

1
How do we forgive our fathers?
Maybe in a dream?
Do we forgive our fathers
for leaving us too often,
or forever,
when we were little?
Maybe for scaring us
with unexpected rage,
or making us nervous because
there never seemed to be
any rage there at all?


Do we forgive our fathers
for marrying, or not marrying
our mothers?
For divorcing or not divorcing
our mothers?
And shall we forgive them
for their excesses of warmth,
or coldness?
Shall we forgive them
for pushing,
or being,
or shutting doors,
or speaking through walls,
or never speaking
or never being silent?


Do we forgive our fathers
In our age
or in theirs?
Or in their deaths,
saying it to them,
or not saying it?


If we forgive our fathers
what is left?​
 
Shortbus

Shortbus

1
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

How do we APOLOGIZE to our fathers?

I tell my dad "I'm sorry" EVERY TIME I SEE HIM.

Looking back, (and having kids of my own) I realize that not only was having 3 sons difficult, but my parents had three of the hardest to raise boys on the planet.

We were well behaved in public, but at any other time, we were doing whatever we could however we could do it whenever we could do it to each other to torment each other. We were unappreciative for what we had. It wasn't much, but my parents sacrificed a great deal for us to have what we did have and we NEVER realized it. Not once. Not until now that is.

If I could only go back in time and change a ten year behavior period...my parents would have been much happier and probably would add a couple of years onto the end of their lives.

While it's a touching poem I'm sure for some, I have nothing to forgive my father for. He's a better man than I will ever be.
 
Blondie

Blondie

EOG Master
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

Bucsfan67 said:
Blondie, i think u should change your avatar to this...



Click to expand...

I'll think about it! I like the one I have now, as it is the design for my tattoo. I did save it though and will change it to this when I get tired of the other one! Thanks!
 
Dante

Dante

EOG Veteran
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

Shortbus said:
How do we APOLOGIZE to our fathers?

I tell my dad "I'm sorry" EVERY TIME I SEE HIM.

Looking back, (and having kids of my own) I realize that not only was having 3 sons difficult, but my parents had three of the hardest to raise boys on the planet.

We were well behaved in public, but at any other time, we were doing whatever we could however we could do it whenever we could do it to each other to torment each other. We were unappreciative for what we had. It wasn't much, but my parents sacrificed a great deal for us to have what we did have and we NEVER realized it. Not once. Not until now that is.

If I could only go back in time and change a ten year behavior period...my parents would have been much happier and probably would add a couple of years onto the end of their lives.

While it's a touching poem I'm sure for some, I have nothing to forgive my father for. He's a better man than I will ever be.
Click to expand...



THis post is dead on shortbus....Im going thru something like this now with my son ...he is a good kid in public and a straight A student but in our house he does whatever he can to make trouble....he is lazy but that is what I heard is normal Teen behavior.....I still think its bullshit that it has to be like that :whatever: I only hope he will see it like you see it after he gets to your age
 
NoNewbieca

NoNewbieca

EOG Dedicated
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

Remember that Fathers, all Fathers, sign up for challenges when they decide to have children of their own. They're human. They make mistakes. As I grow I realize that, and I appreciate more and more what he did. I'll never fully understand why. I also have a step-father who had the patience of Jobe. Both these men in my life have nothing to apologize for. I think they showed tremendous warmth, patience, encouragement and ability to let me make my own mistakes. Maybe that's what they are there for? Guidance and support even when we fall down. I don't have to forgive them, I thank them. As I have children of my own, I gain appreciation for them each and every day. It must make them smile to see it. I often ask "How did you do it?"...
 
THE SHRINK

THE SHRINK

1
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

Shortbus said:
How do we APOLOGIZE to our fathers?

I tell my dad "I'm sorry" EVERY TIME I SEE HIM.

Looking back, (and having kids of my own) I realize that not only was having 3 sons difficult, but my parents had three of the hardest to raise boys on the planet.

We were well behaved in public, but at any other time, we were doing whatever we could however we could do it whenever we could do it to each other to torment each other. We were unappreciative for what we had. It wasn't much, but my parents sacrificed a great deal for us to have what we did have and we NEVER realized it. Not once. Not until now that is.

If I could only go back in time and change a ten year behavior period...my parents would have been much happier and probably would add a couple of years onto the end of their lives.

While it's a touching poem I'm sure for some, I have nothing to forgive my father for. He's a better man than I will ever be.
Click to expand...

I lost my Father a little over a year ago...

He was an alcoholic, who I swore I'd never be like...

I personally believe that true forgiveness is done through actions and not words...

I used up the "I'm sorry's" years ago when I was deep into several addictions...

The best way for me to forgive is to lead a good life by trying to always do the next right thing...

My Father KNEW I was finally SOBER before he died.

While it hadn't even been 3 months yet, it meant more to him than all of my previous apologies did put together...

Oh, and he apologied too about a month before he passed away.

I am very grateful that all of this occurred before it was too late...

Ken
 
T

Tim Patterson

EOG Dedicated
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

My father was addicted to a life of pleasure without much regard to anyone else. He was selfish, a bad role model as a parent and spent more time in a bar than at home. He left mom when I was 5 so she brought me and my three brothers up. I was lucky. When I was a kid I didn't even realize I should have had a father as mom played both roles. She didn't remarry until I was a sophomore in high school.

My father came back to my home town (where I still live) to spend the last 10 years of his life. He almost died on the operating table (stomach problem)once because his body was so addicted to nicotine (2 packs of unfiltered camels a day) that it was shaking violently and uncontrollably while he was sedated. Two days later he almost died again because his body shook so badly because of a lack of alcohol.

After his 6th (maybe 7th) DUI ( he got in the car to drive home a buddy that was too drunk to drive) I told him "That's it. I will not let my kids (age 9 and 7) see my father drunk ever again. When you sober up, call me".

A year later, I had heard he was dieing. I called him on a Monday at home. He was so happy to hear from me. I made arrangements to see him for lunch the next day. He was so excited he asked that I come over that very night.
I politely declined and made an excuse that I was busy but promised to pick him up the next day promptly at 11:30am for our lunch date.

That night, on November 10th, 1990, I got a call at home from a friend of his.
My father had died of a massive seizure while walking to the kitchen to get a bowl of ice cream and his body was being taken to the hospital to wait for my instructions. He had done his part. He'd stopped drinking the last three months of his life. I just didn't know it.

I sold his Chevy he had bought brand new in 1967, gave away his tv, his bike and clothes. I kept two pictures of him from back in his better years.
I closed his checking and savings account. His net worth was $1,200.
The cost of the burial was going to be $2,500. Back then money was short for me. I was trying to raise two kids and lived paycheck to paycheck. My stepfather stepped up and handed me a check for $1,300 to cover the rest of the cost.

I will always regret not going over that night. I should have. We would have apologized to each other. He would have died with the knowledge we were friends again. I promise I will be there for my kids and grand kids (2 already).

One must learn from the ups and downs of living life.

Tim
 
Shortbus

Shortbus

1
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

Dang guys, you're making this tough to read.

Ken I'm glad you guys finally reconciled and Tim, man I feel for you...

I had a similar experience with a grandfather. I was in college and rather than seeing him in the hospital chose to go to a big time date party we were having that night...thinking I'd just see him the next day...I never did.

One thing about my father raising us...he grew up VERY poor. He had 3 brothers plus one that died shortly after birth. My grandpa was a carpenter and they had very little money. My dad worked FULL TIME since he was like 11 years old washing dishes in a small cafe, and then at a movie theater when he was a little older and then doing various jobs through high school on a full time basis. He was kicked off the baseball team by his coach because he had to miss a couple of practices due to work.

He delivered mail in the morning, attended college in the afternoon, and managed a pizza hut when he got off, after i was born, to make ends meet.

He always said that his kids would never miss out like he did because they had to work.

We never had to work, though my middle brother and I did have summer jobs as we got older...and IT BACKFIRED ON HIM.

Eventually, he got a really good job, my mom got her nursing degree and started her own business, and we started living better, but his kids never realized the value of a dollar.

All three of us flunked out of college at one point, my brothers both while playing baseball and me blowing room/board/tuition as well. My middle brother works his butt off for a living now, I got very lucky after college with my business, and my youngest brother is still trying to figure out what the hell he's doing at 24, living in LA and working for a producer who Winky and Andrew likely envy.

I'm not saying he's disappointed, but I can assure you those early college years he probably hated us for having everything he never did, every opportunity, anything we needed/wanted, all because of him, and not appreciating ANY OF IT.

I guess that's how life is. Nothing is ever perfect, and PEOPLE CHANGE. Everyone changes. Some for better, and some for worse.

Those of us reading this, have an opportunity to realize our past and present, and look toward the future and are lucky to have the opportunity to choose our path not only for ourselves but for our fathers, and for our children.
 
SHAWN GOTTI

SHAWN GOTTI

1
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

YOU KNOW.....I REALLY HATE MY FATHER!:(

HE HAD ME AT A VERY YOUNG AGE AND PROBABLY DIDNT KNOW HOW TO BE A FATHER!

BUT....HES BEEN A PRETTY GOOD GRANDFATHER TO MY KIDS!

AND THOUGH I TRY TO 4 GIVE HIM.....IN THE END THERE IS WAY TOO MUCH TO EVERY TOTALLY 4 GIVE!:(
 
Katie

Katie

EOG Master
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

SHAWN GOTTI said:
YOU KNOW.....I REALLY HATE MY FATHER!:(

HE HAD ME AT A VERY YOUNG AGE AND PROBABLY DIDNT KNOW HOW TO BE A FATHER!

BUT....HES BEEN A PRETTY GOOD GRANDFATHER TO MY KIDS!

AND THOUGH I TRY TO 4 GIVE HIM.....IN THE END THERE IS WAY TOO MUCH TO EVERY TOTALLY 4 GIVE!:(
Click to expand...

you could have posted this in the boudoir shawn..:)
 
NickPappagiorgio

NickPappagiorgio

EOG Dedicated
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

I am very lucky. I am 39 and my father is still my one and only hero.

He came to the US when I was 10 months old. He is the epitome of The American Dream. He worked hard, became successful and showed his family lots of love.

Even now, my main motivation in life is making him proud.

I dont ever need to forgive my father, I need to thank him for making me the person I am today.
 
VistaMan

VistaMan

Banned
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

Ken,

Ok, So now everyone knows I lost a son very early. Well, now I guess I have to now tell the rest.. i lost my dad when I was 7 in 1970. It was horrible. I was with my mom at home and we lived in a very small trailer in Lake Dallas, Tx. I will never forget. He came from the rest room and fell to the floor. At that point he began to vomit and basically lie on the floor and vomit with his eyes just staring up at the ceiling...my mom screaming for help..I didnt know what to do so I ran outside of the trailer and hid as my mom screamed. I knew nobody so I didnt really know what else to do. I continued to stay outside and watch for someone to come help. About an hour later I saw a ambulance arrive. I went inside then and saw my dad lying in the floor. The next time I saw him was at the hospital in Denton, Tx. where the ambulance took him. After we had been there for a while I saw him. He was on a stretcher with the sheet pulled down to his waist. He was dead. The funeral was incredibly upsetting because my daddy was lying there, in a suit and would not/could not get up. I did not understand. I guess I still dont understand fully. I was just 7. my mom knew no one. I knew no one. I was terrified, she was terrified and she scared me because the way she acted.

Well, this changed my life and completely changed the direction for later years.

I miss my dad. I loved my dad. He took me to the toy store(TG&Y) once a week and let me look around. He was sick all of his life that I can remember and died when he was 48 of a heart attack.

I miss my daddy and would give anything to have him back..anything to have some more years.

Sorry guys, I have had it hard....I know I haven't done anything to anyone and haven't done anything to deserve what has happened to me..it just happens. Maybe I am stronger..maybe I am not..I just dont know.

As far as my mom...well, wouldn't you guess it...She died when I was 13 in the apartment in Corsicana, Texas where we lived after my dad passed away. She died in her sleep on September 22. My dads birthday was September 22, 1970. Yes......I ofter wonder if...but I never was told.

I found her when I came home from school that evening.

I hope none of you ever have to experience what I have. I feel I am stronger and have a calisness that helps me get through life. I look straight through the bullshit and get straight to the point. That is just my opinion.

I forgive my dad, for I know he loved me. He was sick and did the very best that he could to provide as best he could despite being very sick for years. He tried to hide it every day, and I know now that he tried so hard..and I loved him very much and miss him so much every single day.

Hope everyone has a great night..

Vistaman
 
THE SHRINK

THE SHRINK

1
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

VistaMan, BettingFool and others,

Thank you for making this one of the more memorable threads I have ever read since I have been involved in this industry...

Isn't it ironic how we sometimes display characteristics of a parent we promised ourselves never to do?

The pathetic part about all of this for me is that the main reason I went to Medical School was to save alcoholics from being like my Father.

I could NEVER bring a date Home while in High School because he'd often embarrass me with unpredictable and rude/embarrassing behavior.

Then, I became exactly like this man and was barely able to save myself from the depths of addictions, let alone anothers...

As someone else mentioned about their Mother playing both roles, that was My Mom to the tea. I am a Momma's Boy to this day and damn proud of it, too...

She sacrificed a large part of her life by not leaving my Dad until I went to College, thinking that was best for my Sister and me...

Ironically, the Divorce affected my Sister harder and she is here visiting for the first time in 6 years.

However, through it all, I don't blame anything I do today because of the past. If anything, I will never forget it though because it strengthens me and makes me much more grateful for what my life is today...

Scarlett, Tony Montana, the Glue and my entire family (especially the grandchildren) mean the world to me and I wouldn't trade places with anyone..

I am VERY LUCKY...

THE SHRINK
 
yummy

yummy

2
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

I am adopted and my real father left my mother when he found out about me. They already had a 2 yr old and she was only 16. So I guess all of it was just too much to deal with. So I have to deal with the fact he didn't want me at all. That is ok thought he father I ended up with is great.

I just hope now that I am divorced my kids father will not go away because they are too much to deal with.
 
dirty

dirty

EOG Master
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

If anyone reads this thread without Catching a tear they have a black heart


Brings you down to earth
 
Katie

Katie

EOG Master
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

this is a great thread..
my story with my father is in the father thread in the boudoir so i won't repeat it here..


vista your story is heartbreaking..
i am so sorry you have had so much trauma in your life..
 
VistaMan

VistaMan

Banned
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

Yep....But here I stand! (well I am sitting right now)

I have survived, others can, and will, as well.

Have a great day!

Vistaman
 
Katie

Katie

EOG Master
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

VistaMan said:
Yep....But here I stand! (well I am sitting right now)

I have survived, others can, and will, as well.

Have a great day!

Vistaman
Click to expand...

you sure have and you are an inspiration to others..
you have a great day too!
 
NoNewbieca

NoNewbieca

EOG Dedicated
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

VistaMan - another touching and heart-wrenching story for someone who has done nothing to deserve any of it. Bad things happen to good people, but to me it is a phrase. You have lived it, and had MORE than your share of challenges. I commend you for being here and can only offer these hollow words.
BTW - Katie the new avatar is much sexier than the pink shoes (no foot fetish here)
 
T

Tim Patterson

EOG Dedicated
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

Guys, and gals,
It helped me yesterday, to re-live his death all over again.
So, I thank all of you for writing and reading and commenting.

This was the best off topic thread I believe I've been involved in.

Tim Patterson
Digging down deep to get to the bottom to stay on top
 
Smoketest

Smoketest

2
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

THE SHRINK said:
As someone else mentioned about their Mother playing both roles, that was My Mom to the tea. I am a Momma's Boy to this day and damn proud of it, too...



THE SHRINK
Click to expand...

This really hits home. This thread shows how many of us don't have ideal conditions when it comes to parents, but we make the best of it.

To answer your question, I don't think we have to forgive some things. They are the way they are and we can't expect them to change. But if we accept it at that, we can find peace within ourselves and others.
 
THE SHRINK

THE SHRINK

1
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

In keeping with the spirit of this thread, I have to post a song that always makes me think of him....

I know many of you weren't alive when this song was written, but I suspect some of you were and others may have heard of it...

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Jek6iP6AuAQ"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Jek6iP6AuAQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
 
dirty

dirty

EOG Master
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

This one always gets to me...


<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YvVb5-2aJ3I"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YvVb5-2aJ3I" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
 
dirty

dirty

EOG Master
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/smDaDwG2yLg"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/smDaDwG2yLg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
 
Katie

Katie

EOG Master
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

NoNewbieca said:
VistaMan - another touching and heart-wrenching story for someone who has done nothing to deserve any of it. Bad things happen to good people, but to me it is a phrase. You have lived it, and had MORE than your share of challenges. I commend you for being here and can only offer these hollow words.
BTW - Katie the new avatar is much sexier than the pink shoes (no foot fetish here)
Click to expand...

thanks, nonewbecca..
 
M

Munchkin Man

EOG Dedicated
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

Hi Ken,

Thank you for posting a very touching thread.

I was very happy to read of your reconciliation before he passed.

My father passed away three years ago.

About two years ago, I went to his grave and sat and cried for an hour, apologizing for being such a lousy son.

My father was not a perfect father, but he did his best.

My father tried to give me good financial advice and would tell me to try to save a little bit of money every month.

I didn't listen to my father.

Instead, I ate out at expensive restaurants every night and didn't save a dime.

I've been through bankruptcy twice.

My father was ashamed of me.

And I was ashamed of myself.

I was never the son he wanted.

He loved to work outside. He loved to work on his lawn, his garden, and go boating and fishing.

I loved the great indoors. I loved to sit in my room all day long and practice my magic tricks and read books on how to play checkers.

Somebody here knows how good I am at checkers.

Stratego too.

I used to argue and fuss with my father when he would ask me to help out by cutting the grass and pulling some weeds.

I hated working outside and any kind of manual labor with a passion. It felt like I was being punished. It felt like torture to me. I think this is something I was born with.

I would even argue about going fishing with him. I hated to go fishing. I just never acquired a liking for boating and fishing. It felt like manual labor too.

Instead, I just wanted to sit in my air conditioned bedroom and practice my magic tricks and play checkers with myself.

This would hurt his feelings.

But he never showed it.

I never measured up to my father.

I was not the son my father wanted.

This makes me sad.

In spite of how different we were, he really was a wonderful man and had a heart of gold.

How can he forgive me for being such a lousy son when he is in the grave?

Munchkin Man
 
THE SHRINK

THE SHRINK

1
Re: How do we forgive our fathers?

Munchkin Man said:
Hi Ken,

Thank you for posting a very touching thread.

I was very happy to read of your reconciliation before he passed.

My father passed away three years ago.

About two years ago, I went to his grave and sat and cried for an hour, apologizing for being such a lousy son.

My father was not a perfect father, but he did his best.

My father tried to give me good financial advice and would tell me to try to save a little bit of money every month.

I didn't listen to my father.

Instead, I ate out at expensive restaurants every night and didn't save a dime.

I've been through bankruptcy twice.

My father was ashamed of me.

And I was ashamed of myself.

I was never the son he wanted.

He loved to work outside. He loved to work on his lawn, his garden, and go boating and fishing.

I loved the great indoors. I loved to sit in my room all day long and practice my magic tricks and read books on how to play checkers.

Somebody here knows how good I am at checkers.

Stratego too.

I used to argue and fuss with my father when he would ask me to help out by cutting the grass and pulling some weeds.

I hated working outside and any kind of manual labor with a passion. It felt like I was being punished. It felt like torture to me. I think this is something I was born with.

I would even argue about going fishing with him. I hated to go fishing. I just never acquired a liking for boating and fishing. It felt like manual labor too.

Instead, I just wanted to sit in my air conditioned bedroom and practice my magic tricks and play checkers with myself.

This would hurt his feelings.

But he never showed it.

I never measured up to my father.

I was not the son my father wanted.

This makes me sad.

In spite of how different we were, he really was a wonderful man and had a heart of gold.

How can he forgive me for being such a lousy son when he is in the grave?

Munchkin Man
Click to expand...

Hi Munchkin Man,

Perhaps you may want to consider forgiving yourself...
 
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