Clock is ticking as Michigan waits on legal sports betting

#1
Interesting article on where Michigan stands with legal sports betting.....this article is from a few weeks ago in the Detroit News. The Governor & the state legislature does not have a clue on any of this. The only one that does it Brandt Iden, a congressman from the western side of the state who has been trying to get some sort of legislation passed for more than a year now. Former Governor Rick Snyder vetoed the bill because he was afraid the betting would cannibalize the lottery, which (supposedly) funds schools. Iden's defense is lottery players don't sports bet, and sports bettor do not play the lottery, which has been shown in NJ after they came online. Anyway, an interesting read that demonstrates the backwardness of Michigan.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/s...dds-legal-sports-betting-michigan/1764597001/
 

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
#5
IOWA open for business at high noon come AUGUST 15th
I'll visit Iowa sometime in August and file a full report.

Sports books should offer action on the outcome of the Iowa Democratic caucuses in early February.

Great way to promote your new product.
 
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#7
It makes me sick that all these states are opening for business, and Michigan sits on it's ass. Meanwhile, the governor's promise was to fix the "damn" roads here, but she never said how it would get paid for. She got elected, and introduced legislation to impose a 45 cent / gallon increase in taxes on gasoline to fix the roads. That didn't go over too well, and as a result, she now wants to increase the personal income tax rate from 4.25% to 8.4% on income greater than $75,000.

One can only imagine the tax revenue generated from legalized sports betting.

This state is so foolish.
 

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
#8
Disbursement of fees and taxes
The draft bill goes into great detail on how the state would use MI sports betting revenue.

  • 55% to the State Sports Betting Fund, which will pay $1 million annually into a Compulsive Gaming Prevention Fund
  • 30% to the city in which a sports betting licensee’s casino is located for local development
  • 5% to the Michigan Transportation Fund
  • 5% to the Michigan Agriculture Equine Industry Development Fund

Source: Legal Sports Report
 

FairWarning

Bells Beer Connoisseur
#9
Disbursement of fees and taxes
The draft bill goes into great detail on how the state would use MI sports betting revenue.

  • 55% to the State Sports Betting Fund, which will pay $1 million annually into a Compulsive Gaming Prevention Fund
  • 30% to the city in which a sports betting licensee’s casino is located for local development
  • 5% to the Michigan Transportation Fund
  • 5% to the Michigan Agriculture Equine Industry Development Fund

Source: Legal Sports Report
Most of the Mich casinos are in small towns. Quite the windfall for New Buffalo. They have 3000 slots at the Four Winds Casino and have a city population of 1800.
 
#12
Doubt that will happen since there are a few who don’t offer lottery.


lets' just say any state who wants it, Maybe a few years after California wins. A lot of people thought sports betting was not going legal. The greed of the states could be fixed by a 50/50 split on a bet. There will be some laws to hurdle over in court but it can be done. Exchange wagering will probably come some time end of 2019-2020 in some form.
 

FairWarning

Bells Beer Connoisseur
#13
lets' just say any state who wants it, Maybe a few years after California wins. A lot of people thought sports betting was not going legal. The greed of the states could be fixed by a 50/50 split on a bet. There will be some laws to hurdle over in court but it can be done. Exchange wagering will probably come some time end of 2019-2020 in some form.
That would be nice
 
#15
Whatever happened to Great Lakes Downs? That was a Michigan track that didn't last too long.
Never heard of that. Was that by the Airport? Or am I thinking of Pinnacle Racing? Live racing is non-exisitant in Michigan these days. Northville Downs is basically the last track left.
 
#18
I'll visit Iowa sometime in August and file a full report.

Sports books should offer action on the outcome of the Iowa Democratic caucuses in early February.

Great way to promote your new product.
Let me know, 50-50 will be there late August..................will show you around the Hawkeye State, consider going to the IOWA night game on the 31st, the Riverside Casino is 5 miles from Kinnick Staduim.

Doubt the books are allowed to offer political wagers.......................Iowa has long had LEGAL betting on politcal events already with the IEM (IOWA ELECTRONIC MARKETS) based in Iowa City($500 limits)
 
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#20
The one thing missing in all these articles are the tribes. Just like in California they are greedy as fuck and even if they aren't making noise about it, they are in the background trying to limit or even block it. From the tribes' point of view, the Detroit locations are going to get more share of the business because they are big-name companies and have big advertising budgets, plus of course, they are closer to a larger % of the population. In their estimation, if they can push up the tax rate to an almost unworkable level, they will then come back to the state and say hey we want it too, but they will get to offer it at a much lower tax rate, or even no taxes on it.

This is playing out in countless states. Any state where the tribes are a major, or the only, source of gaming revenue, there is nonsense going on that equates to the tribes saying we make so much more money from slots, so why do we even want this sports betting to happen? If they have to let it happen due to public opinion forcing them, they are delaying it as long as they can and then trying to set up rules that make their operations far more profitable than commercial operators. If that is allowed to happen, the tribes will eventually use their advantages to advertise the shit out of the business and offer promos the commercial operators can't match in hopes they shut out as much competition as possible.
 

FairWarning

Bells Beer Connoisseur
#21
I’ve been wondering the same thing Bill about the Indian casinos. All of the Michigan casinos except Detroit’s are Indian owned. All of the Indiana casinos have filed for the sports gaming license but one - the Indian casino. Not sure what to make of that since that casino has 3 others in Michigan.
 
#22
I’ve been wondering the same thing Bill about the Indian casinos. All of the Michigan casinos except Detroit’s are Indian owned. All of the Indiana casinos have filed for the sports gaming license but one - the Indian casino. Not sure what to make of that since that casino has 3 others in Michigan.
Since they don't have a compact with Indiana, Four Winds can't legally offer sports betting. They are operating as a Class II outlier basically, their operation is overseen at the federal level and not the state level. It will be a long while until they get sports betting rights, or full slot rights for that matter.
 
#25
They have 1800 slot machines, just no table games. They have a poker room with live dealers.

https://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/2018/01/four_winds_resorts_to_open_sou.html

I’ll have to investigate. Too bad it’s way on the south side of the city.
Class II bingo machines, which look like slots these days. Poker is not house banked so as long as Indiana law does not ban the game of poker they could offer it. It's a nice facility, went there some months ago. Not as nice or large as the New Buffalo location, but serves a good market that doesn't want to drive up to Blue Chip or Hammond.
 
#26
Ohio may bogged down a little. Two proposals put forth. One calls for Ohio Lottery to run sports betting. The other calls for the Casino Commission as the governing body. Could be a pissing match
 
#27
Here is an update as of Sept 10, 2019:

Michigan sports betting could be legal by Super Bowl, lawmaker says


https://www.freep.com/story/news/po...igan-sports-betting-legal-illegal/2275381001/

LANSING – With 13 states and the District of Columbia having approved sports betting in their states since the U.S. Supreme Court paved the way for expanded gambling across the nation last year, Michigan lawmakers are resurrecting a plan to add the state into the mix.
State Rep. Brandt Iden, R-Kalamazoo, told the House Regulatory Reform Committee Tuesday that he traveled to a casino 1 mile over the Michigan border into Indiana on Saturday with his weekend fun money. He was able to place sports bets on the U-M versus Army football game (he lost $50) and another against the Lions in their NFL match against the Arizona Cardinals (he won $100).
“Always betting against the Lions, that’s a sure bet,” he said.
Iden has been the driving force behind expanding legalized gambling in Michigan. He ushered through bills last session that would legalize betting on fantasy sports and online gambling through the state's 23 tribal and three Detroit casinos.
Even though the bills had widespread support in the Legislature, they were vetoed by former Gov. Rick Snyder, who opposed expansion of gambling in the state and feared a loss of revenue for the state lottery, from which revenues are funneled to schools.
Iden is hoping for a different outcome with a new governor in office.
“My goal is to have this up and running by the Super Bowl. Casinos are moving forward because they know it’s going to come to fruition at some point,” he said. “If we don’t do this, we will continue to lose consumers to other states, just like you lost me to Indiana last weekend.”
The bill calls for an 8% tax on sports betting, which would generate between $8.7 million to $11.2 million in tax revenues. That’s based on a sport betting market in Michigan, both in the casinos and online, of up to $225 million.
The bill comes as the U.S. Supreme Court paved the way for legalized sports betting across the nation last year. The justices ruled that a 25-year-old federal law that has effectively prohibited sports betting outside Nevada is unconstitutional. The ruling set the stage for other states to expand legalized gambling as a source of government revenue.
People would be able to bet on both the traditional outcome of games and place live bets on things like whether a baseball pitch will be a ball or a strike or whether a field goal in a football game will be good or flubbed.
The online gambling and fantasy sports betting bills are also currently in committee, but stalled because Gov. Gretchen Whitmer has said the 8% tax rate is too low. The administration opposes the sports betting bill for the same reason, noting that 15% is a better place to land.
"I haven't talked with the administration since before the summer break and they proposed 15%, plus the additional 3.25% for the city of Detroit," Iden said. "That's an astronomical rate which just will not work — that number has to be somewhere closer to 9% or 9.5%."
The tax rates in other states that have legalized sports betting range from a low of 6.75% in Nevada to 51% in Rhode Island. If Michigan stuck with a 8% rate, it would be the second-lowest rate behind Nevada. In other nearby states, Indiana has a 9.5% tax rate while Illinois will have a 30% tax rate when sports betting takes effect early next year.
The other states that have legalized sports betting are Iowa, Mississippi, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, West Virginia, Arkansas, New York, Oregon, Delaware and Washington D.C.
“The tax rate has become a key issue with the administration and I haven’t advanced other bills to the floor until I reach an agreement with the administration,” Iden said. “It’s disappointing that it’s stalled out at this point in time, and I won’t advance this until we find some resolution.”
State Rep. Sarah Cambensy, D-Marquette, echoed the administration’s wariness with gambling bills.
“I’m fine with the bills except for the tax rate,” she said. “I think we can get to where New Jersey is — a little more creative — rather than at the lower end.”
New Jersey’s tax rate ranges from 8.5% for betting in casinos to 13% for casino-based online betting and 14.25% for racetrack-based online betting.”
Committee chairman Rep. Michael Webber, R-Rochester Hills, said he expects a committee vote on the package of bills — HB 4916-4918 — next week.
“More likely, (tax rate) changes will be made at the next committee level,” he said. “I want us to be competitive. … We have to be cognizant of what these other states around us are doing with it.”
Contact Kathleen Gray: 313-223-4430, kgray99@freepress.com or on Twitter @michpoligal.
 

Valuist

EOG Dedicated
#28
Four Winds maybe doesn't have table games now, but at some point they did. On the GWAE podcast, Munchkin talked about a case where Four Winds denied paying winnings to a card counter. This was maybe 7 years ago or so.
 
#29
ZERO chance for sports betting here in MI anytime soon,the big titted liberal Communist GOV is against it,says it will take money away from the lottery and in turn hurt school funding,ZERO CHANCE of the bill passing
 
#30
Four Winds maybe doesn't have table games now, but at some point they did. On the GWAE podcast, Munchkin talked about a case where Four Winds denied paying winnings to a card counter. This was maybe 7 years ago or so.
Michigan Four Winds has lots of tables. Indiana Four Winds only has poker tables.
 
#31
Four Winds maybe doesn't have table games now, but at some point they did. On the GWAE podcast, Munchkin talked about a case where Four Winds denied paying winnings to a card counter. This was maybe 7 years ago or so.
Four Winds South Bend does not have table games. The main Four Winds facility in New Buffalo, MI, (about 20 miles from the South Bend facility) does have table games, and is probably the single most hostile casino in the country toward AP’s, tribal or otherwise.

It was hole carders that the money was stolen from, and it wasn’t just their winnings, but their buy-ins too.

FairWarning and I have discussed this in this forum before, and I posted a link to the actual court case. I can’t locate the thread at the moment though. It’s probably at least 18 months old by now.

Cliffs: Bob Loeb fought the good fight, but the bought-and-paid-for ex Berrien County circuit court judge hired by the tribe of course found in the tribe’s favor.

It’s nice to have the fox guarding the henhouse....

(Hey FW, any idea what thread that was in?)
 

FairWarning

Bells Beer Connoisseur
#32
I didn’t hear that about chasing AP’s out. I have friends who deal over there, and I remember them complaining that their tips dried up after some whales were shown the door, it adds up now.

In today’s SB tribune, the pokagons are trying to get live dealers in South Bend so they can get a sportsbook. They are also adding a 23-story hotel.
 

Valuist

EOG Dedicated
#33
Four Winds South Bend does not have table games. The main Four Winds facility in New Buffalo, MI, (about 20 miles from the South Bend facility) does have table games, and is probably the single most hostile casino in the country toward AP’s, tribal or otherwise.

It was hole carders that the money was stolen from, and it wasn’t just their winnings, but their buy-ins too.

FairWarning and I have discussed this in this forum before, and I posted a link to the actual court case. I can’t locate the thread at the moment though. It’s probably at least 18 months old by now.

Cliffs: Bob Loeb fought the good fight, but the bought-and-paid-for ex Berrien County circuit court judge hired by the tribe of course found in the tribe’s favor.

It’s nice to have the fox guarding the henhouse....

(Hey FW, any idea what thread that was in?)
Now that you mention it, it was hole carders. I do know its a definite "stay away" for players.
 
#34
I didn’t hear that about chasing AP’s out. I have friends who deal over there, and I remember them complaining that their tips dried up after some whales were shown the door, it adds up now.

In today’s SB tribune, the pokagons are trying to get live dealers in South Bend so they can get a sportsbook. They are also adding a 23-story hotel.
A sportsbook won't make them money in Indiana with mobile being allowed soon. They want a compact so they can add more and better slots and live tables. They are in kind of a tough spot, the state is going to demand the same taxes as the casinos pay and that's a huge dent in their profits. I say its 50/50 at best they can come up with an agreement.
 
#35
just noticed another update from about 6 days ago.....not looking good in Michigan at this time:

https://www.legalsportsreport.com/35526/michigan-sports-betting-budget/

Michigan Sports Betting Chances Appear Slim In Budget Discussion

Sports betting legislation advanced through the Michigan House Regulatory Reform Committee on Tuesday, but that’s not an indication it’s on the move.
Rep. Brandt Iden tells Legal Sports Report that the chances of getting language to legalize Michigan sports betting or iGaming in the Michigan budget are slim. Prospects for the rest of the session aren’t looking so great either.
The Sports Betting Act, H 4916, joins the online gambling bill in Iden’s House Ways and Means Committee. The iGaming legislation has stalled for months, facing opposition from the administration.
Gov. Gretchen Whitmer continues not to engage with him on the topics, according to Iden.
“The governor’s office is just not communicating about this now,” Iden said. “The governor is not communicating about the budget either at this point in time. The governor’s office is just not communicating, and that’s been part of the issue from Day One.”
MI sports betting isn’t the only wedge
Whitmer, a Democrat, is embroiled in a budget standoff with the Republican-controlled legislature.
In fact, Whitmer removed herself from those discussions and asked the legislature just to send her their budget proposal. They are even bickering about when the legislature gets her that proposal. It’s looking like next week.
“She walked away from the negotiation, so that makes it difficult to get her thoughts on any potential for sports betting or iGaming if she’s not at the table,” Iden said. “I’m trying to ensure that we look at all possible angles and options to get this done.
“The budget makes the most sense to me because this is new revenue, but it’s difficult without the administration there to get their thoughts on how they want this structured.”
Threat of government shutdown looming
If the legislature and governor can’t agree on terms for a budget by Oct. 1, there will be a government shutdown in Lansing.
Showing that it’s serious, the state sent layoff notices to 48,000 employees.
Iden said that Whitmer eventually will have to come to the table to avoid a government shutdown. When that happens, he hopes to talk about Michigan sports betting and iGaming.
“We are working hard to avoid a government shutdown,” Iden said. “That never goes well for anybody. It’s not what we want. It’s crazy to me that the governor’s team continues not to be interested in the revenue this brings in when the new administration is looking for revenue. They’re looking at raising taxes but not interested in iGaming revenue.”
They really might be that far apart
There was speculation that Whitmer could be willing to allow Michigan sports betting in the budget. It makes sense, though her asks don’t seem in line with the proposal.
Iden’s proposed 8% tax rate is about half of the 15% asked for by the governor. The $200,000 initial licensing fee is one-fifth of the $1 million the governor wants from the commercial casinos and largest tribal casinos.
The gap for iGaming is much vaster, with the governor wanting an untenable tax rate and the removal of online slots.
Iden said he’s willing to have discussions on raising the MI sports betting tax rate if the governor engages with him on the topic. With the governor absent from budget talks, he expects that conversation will have to wait for the fall.
 
#36
In addition the the above, there is all this talk. It seems like Michigan is well positioned to get this passed, but with a governmental shutdown looming on 10/1/2019 the voting maybe delayed a bit, but who knows. BTW, MI has had two shutdowns in the past 30 years. The first lasted 6 hours, and the second lasted 2 hours. Guess it comes down to, where there is smoke there is fire.

I've read the following over the past week:

On Sep 16: https://www.michiganradio.org/post/sports-betting-bills-scheduled-see-movement-week

On Sep 17 https://www.wilx.com/content/news/Sports-betting-bill-passed-in-Michigan-560607861.html

On Sep 20: https://sportshandle.com/michigan-sports-betting-delay/

On Sep 24: https://news.worldcasinodirectory.com/sports-betting-bill-making-progress-in-michigan-71448
 
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