Drink, props on the poker commentaries

#1
I, for one, enjoy them. Nice to see a solid opinion on these guys. As a guy who gets slaughtered in poker, it's nice to have a reference.

My view of Hellmuth is that this guy never has an original thought. If he has Aces, he's brilliant. His playing of mid-level hands seems terrible to me. Call when he's beaten. Steam when he gets cracked. Over-inflated view of himself, to say the least.
 
#2
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

Thanks Chuck I'd reply further but I'm stuck and hoping to leave the card room soon. If you want to see the most exciting time in all of poker please Google 2 plus 2 archives
High stakes thread November 2009 that is to this day and always will be the most viewed and fascinating thread in gambling history. Someone please paste that thread, I can't from my phone but I'd love to read it all over again!:)

I disagree btw I think PH is a fantastic NLHE TOURNAMENT POKER PLAYER. Maybe the best ever. The guy is obviously very intelligent and has reinvented himself a couple times from what I can see.
He is also a huge dog against 90+% of all cash game players in their games, I'm pretty sure he is ok with that... my struggle is real of late.
 
#5
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

Tysm if anyone doesn't know what this is just skip to page 50 when everyone starts freaking out, who is this Isildur guy?! I remember staying up watching him 8 table against durrr, Patrik Antonio and Ivey in a game he'd never played before.. even if you never play poker it's amazing to see millions won and lost every couple minutes for a month straight. I miss online quite a bit, who's with me?!
 
#6
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

I spent 90 minutes yesterday watching videos of professional players in various games.....characters:lol

Drink, a question; do these pros play with their own money in these tournaments?
 
#7
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

Lol Viejo you already know that answer!
There are zero professional tournament players and that is their only occupation who have 100% of themselves. It's the highest variance game that's extremely competive I can think of.
The very talented, quick to bounce back guys cash in sponsorships. The rest take bad stake deals and owe make up.

If you wanna back a wsop champ Greg Raymer who had 10M in winnings is selling shares of himself on 2p2 for 2-6% for $1500 tourneys. I'm sure he's not broke but I'm sure he prefers to stay that way.

PH, DN, Selbt etc look like the tour de France team with all their patches, jerseys and hats walking around the rio, who the hell can blame them?!
Helmuth played in 30 something tourneys last year trying to win his bracelet. I don't know the numbers, nor do I care but that'd break the avg. Guy in no time. Doubt after taxes unless he wins 700k or more after taxes he might break even.
The avg. Stake deal on a complete free roll is anywhere from 75-25 to 85-15..the backer does great if he has a good horse. Tough route to go for the player imho.
Goodluck, Milk
 
#8
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

Btw I have a lot of respect for tourney players in all seriousness. Seriously insane group of gamblers the good and the bad alike imo. Anyone willing to put 10k on the line on one hand (mostly coinflips) numerous times to make a living is pretty brave. Not my cup of tea. I'd rather go broke super slow;)
 
#9
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

Excellent thoughts, thanks for sharing.

As I've said for years and years.......999/1000 aspiring young poker pros would be better off financially ten years down the road pursuing professional video poker than poker.........glad they don't.
 

Jb777

EOG Dedicated
#10
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

Excellent thoughts, thanks for sharing.

As I've said for years and years.......999/1000 aspiring young poker pros would be better off financially ten years down the road pursuing professional video poker than poker.........glad they don't.
oh boy here we go
 
#12
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

Excellent thoughts, thanks for sharing.

As I've said for years and years.......999/1000 aspiring young poker pros would be better off financially ten years down the road pursuing professional video poker than poker.........glad they don't.
I so don't want to have this debate because I respect all advantage play but fish you live in LV for a reason.
You work ridiculous hours when promos run, you can never take a break when happy hours are occuring, you deal with months of -ev or neutral ev stretches in order to make certain vip statuses I've read. Your peak edge on a VP machine is limited. Mine is not nor will ever be.
If a man comes to a poker table with it in his mind to play until it's all gone.. this happens. If a person wants to play triple draw, o8, plo, stud variants for a first time and has some gamble to them... this happens. More times than not a bad bj player or gambler is on tilt and wants to win it back in the biggest poker game in the casino..this happens.
Very wealthy business men and women want to play that game they see on TV still. My game is getting harder but easier in a lot of ways too. Your game is the same as it always was I believe?

A good poker player can live anywhere in the world and make a good if not great living if he can apply himself and has even decent discipline.
A mediocre player in LA, Connecticut, LV, London, Australia, Macau etc can play and become a expert in no less than 40 different types and variants of poker and can live off different types of fish for life.
Look at the bravo app right now there are 760 poker tables going on from LA, LV, SD, Oregon, Az, NM, Colorado do you really think let's call it 7000 people playing live poker right now at 10 AM that even 300 of them know what their doing? It's a game of pure recreation for 99%. There are 27,089 people playing on stars for real money currently.
You ever hit a rough patch as a cash game player you drop down a limit, regain balance. If you are single and wanna see the world and take some time off head anywhere in the world and play online with 2 million people a day.
You can use software which is legal that gives you a huge edge if you know how to apply it.
I work 24 hours a week on avg. I make almost to a T what a 10th yr RN or a very successful CPA makes. I travel the world and have a pretty decent life off of 1.5 big bets a hour and I'm probably the 10th-20th or so best reg in my area. I have met thousands of poker players in my life from 4/8 limit grinders to 4k/8k big game players and I've never heard anyone say I gotta get home to check my mailers.
Definitely not saying that you can't make a living in VP but I am saying you can live a much better life in poker.
There is a reason no one has ever made a documentary or sold a book, a magazine or a movie on a pro VP AG it's strictly a grinders life and not that interesting of one from what I can tell.. not knocking your hustle just think you're being obtuse in the statement.
When I'm in town in a couple of weeks and have some time we will meet and you and I will play machines.
I'll play the Helmuth heads up machine and you play the VP Machines Surrounding it and whoever has the best hourly in a set time owes the other one a beer? I don't drink but not sure I'll have time for dinner:)
Have a good day fellas
 
#14
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

I've seen this mentioned now the last few days....mlkshkr says you know , I certainly do not.....who's money is it then?
Sheets and Bax is one of many backing firms it's a legal way to be a shylock. They handle online backing. If you would like to back a live poker pro with good to great results check the staking subsection of 2plus2 there are at least 5000 resumes posted monthly. If you are a start up gaming company a poker tournament that will be aired on ESPN 1000s of times a year you can sponsor a pro for as low as 40k a patch these days that's a whole lot of advertisement if you think about it.

If you are just the run of the mill type of backer you find some pretty good talent and for 30kish you could get 20 $1500 buy ins from your stable. If any Of them hit A big score (100 - 350k Let's say) you get 75-85% of this and they pay all the taxes the win after all is in their name. If they lose you charge them makeup or otherwise known as vig until they do hit that big score. You do it all legally and your ROI is pretty substantial.
 
#17
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

My comment was this......

999/1000 aspiring professional poker players after ten years will not be up as much gambling as a even a SEMI-advantage VP player after ten years........the vast majority will not even last 3-4 years, let alone 10 years as an advantage poker player.

However......

The best of the best poker players will make much more over their careers than the best of the best VP advantage players, AND the number of these highly successful poker players will out number the highly succesful VP/machine players at a very large ratio, we agree 100% on this.
 
#18
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

The mid to high level VP/machine pro is a group that is VERY, VERY small, not only in Vegas, but across the country and globe as well.........and microscopic when compared to those playing real poker at a mid-high level.
 
#19
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

Keep in mind, many of the top VP/machine sharps(as well as poker players) are very good advantage gamblers beyond machines and poker.:lightbulb:
 

WVU

EOG Master
#20
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

Sheets and Bax is one of many backing firms it's a legal way to be a shylock. They handle online backing. If you would like to back a live poker pro with good to great results check the staking subsection of 2plus2 there are at least 5000 resumes posted monthly. If you are a start up gaming company a poker tournament that will be aired on ESPN 1000s of times a year you can sponsor a pro for as low as 40k a patch these days that's a whole lot of advertisement if you think about it.

If you are just the run of the mill type of backer you find some pretty good talent and for 30kish you could get 20 $1500 buy ins from your stable. If any Of them hit A big score (100 - 350k Let's say) you get 75-85% of this and they pay all the taxes the win after all is in their name. If they lose you charge them makeup or otherwise known as vig until they do hit that big score. You do it all legally and your ROI is pretty substantial.
how are you able to get 75-85% of a big score and not pay the taxes on the big win? How does the pro make any money if he eats more in taxes than he makes?
 
#21
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

how are you able to get 75-85% of a big score and not pay the taxes on the big win? How does the pro make any money if he eats more in taxes than he makes?
Unscramble these letters and you'll figure it out.....s'he a ewJ
 
#25
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

drnk you play what up to 25/50sh from sounds of it? that can be a very big game
30/60 lhe with a 50/1 kill 3,4 x a week. 40/80 when in LA. Prefer o8, draw games but mix games that run at the mid to high stakes have very few spots that play in it.
Hey Ted you fucking mental midget I see you are now drunk at 230 PM way to go buddy.. your friends and family must be so proud.. wait I said friends lol.
 

WVU

EOG Master
#27
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

how are you able to get 75-85% of a big score and not pay the taxes on the big win? How does the pro make any money if he eats more in taxes than he makes?
I think this is a legit question. They can't be paying the taxes and paying out anywhere near 85%. :+clueless
 

IrishTim

EOG Dedicated
#28
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

Excellent thoughts, thanks for sharing.

As I've said for years and years.......999/1000 aspiring young poker pros would be better off financially ten years down the road pursuing professional video poker than poker.........glad they don't.
Or finance...
 
#29
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

Sorry WVU didn't see your original question. I have no idea if any tourney pros have made a good living being staked. I know that a complete free roll deal (meaning you pay zero to enter any tournament) is normally 75-25, 85-15 with the player getting 15-25%. If you win anything in a tourney you have to fill out tax forms when you collect YOUR winnings.
Most players who have some money or a established bankroll I'm sure sell smaller shares to numerous people to get what % they want. You can buy 1-5% of many well known pros main event until they sell out. The only very good tourney pro I know sells 1-3% until he gets to 50% and he sells out very quickly. He never sells shares of his favorite tournaments or low buy ins.

If you don't have a bankroll and think you are capable of winning a million and have results and a reputation of paying you will find someone or multiple people looking to make money. If you hit a 150k score you will have a bankroll until the tax man collects I suppose.. speculating now.
If you look on ebay you can buy a lot of Wsop bracelets and wpt cups from tj cloutier and other well known pros.. there's a reason.
Mike Matusow won 500k and a bracelet once and said publicly I now almost out of make up.
 
#30
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

I'm very good friends with Liz Leui if there was still a radio show I think she would do it if I asked her and she would have better insight. David Grey and dink touched on this in his radio show where David said tourney pros don't have any money and it's not theirs anyway.

I honestly do not know a single strictly live tourney player that has 100% of himself and is well off. Maybe Antonio Esfandiari but I believe he plays private LA cash games and does tv appearance etc. I'm sure they're our there just none come to mind. Scotty Ngyuen maybe no clue. Erik Seidel probably the best ever but was also FTP sponsored and possibly owner at one point, unsure if he plays cash games.

If you wanna make a living in poker it's a job and nowadays it's a lot of work and it's one pot at a time for me. I've never hit a score of any type over 4 figures in one session. If you really want insight into how difficult tournament poker is please look at the 2p2 staking subforums it won't be long before you recognize past wpt and wsop champions. I've played 3 live tournaments in my whole life and regretted the decision 10 minutes in each of the 3.
Gl, Milk
 

WVU

EOG Master
#32
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

Interesting stuff milkshake. I wonder what percent of investors make money?
 
#33
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

Interesting stuff milkshake. I wonder what percent of investors make money?
I'd say there's no shortage of companies that are getting in the game and doing just fine. I just looked at the staking forum and they have built a new subforums for investors. Go to marketplace they have online and live investor because there are so many they have had to divide them it seems.
 
#35
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

Google poker player makeup and the glossary there will answer yours and everyone else's questions about staking it seems. I just got done reading the entire thing and it's extremely well done. Wish it'd kept Ungar out of the conversation but it is what it is.
 
#38
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

Teddy is a guy who stays home from his job in the costruction business to get drunk and be the forum funny guy/racist/anti-semite he's pretty awesome.. said no one ever
 

peach

EOG Veteran
#39
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

a.) esfandiari was staked by volgaris its no secret....see 2p2.
b.) busquet and volgaris also had 75%+ of MRGREEN last yr.
c.) matusow, tj, and early on chino were all part of baxter's stable of horses along with JRB. That's been well known in the poker "community" for a long time. surprised u weren't on up n up drnk....

anything else?
 

peach

EOG Veteran
#40
Re: Drink, props on the poker commentaries

oh and I have leveled the poor guy (teddy) so bad he thinks I'm a ghost....you guys are getting pwnd itt
 
Top