ChiTownJoe
EOG Dedicated
First time I listened since Del Mar, how come Aaron Hess wasn't on?
JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
- Thread starter ChiTownJoe
- Start date
Re: JK how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Re: JK how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Interesting story that I'm sure JK can elaborate on.
Hesz' last appearance on "Track Talk" was on Sat., Sept 7. Del Mar had just shut down its summer session the previous Wednesday and so JK steered the discussion to Fairplex Park. The first 15 minutes of the show usually features clocker Toby Turrell at which point after a commercial, Aaron Hesz is introduced.
Aaron comes on the air, JK asks him a generic question about the Fairplex Park session.
Hesz says something to the effect: "There's no value in anything at Fairplex, its just a bunch of worthless horses at a garbage track."
Dead silence. AFAIK, it was the last thing Hesz ever said on the radio show.
Re: JK how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Interesting story that I'm sure JK can elaborate on.
Hesz' last appearance on "Track Talk" was on Sat., Sept 7. Del Mar had just shut down its summer session the previous Wednesday and so JK steered the discussion to Fairplex Park. The first 15 minutes of the show usually features clocker Toby Turrell at which point after a commercial, Aaron Hesz is introduced.
Aaron comes on the air, JK asks him a generic question about the Fairplex Park session.
Hesz says something to the effect: "There's no value in anything at Fairplex, its just a bunch of worthless horses at a garbage track."
Dead silence. AFAIK, it was the last thing Hesz ever said on the radio show.
ChiTownJoe
EOG Dedicated
Re: JK how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Re: JK how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Thanks Bob, there seemed to be some tension between Aaron and Toby on a few occasions. I liked Aaron's style, he didn't shy away from his opinion.
I don't know if its true but I got the impression that Aaron was playing his info (where odds warranted) and Toby wasn't. Aaron once said on John's show that he never saw Quigley make a bet. Now that doesn't make Quigley a bad handicapper, but that is information I like to know as a listener. Anybody can say they like a horse in a race, but if they are not willing to back the opinion with a wager (again odds conditions met), then they might as well mute the microphone, because that opinion means nothing to me.
Re: JK how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Thanks Bob, there seemed to be some tension between Aaron and Toby on a few occasions. I liked Aaron's style, he didn't shy away from his opinion.
I don't know if its true but I got the impression that Aaron was playing his info (where odds warranted) and Toby wasn't. Aaron once said on John's show that he never saw Quigley make a bet. Now that doesn't make Quigley a bad handicapper, but that is information I like to know as a listener. Anybody can say they like a horse in a race, but if they are not willing to back the opinion with a wager (again odds conditions met), then they might as well mute the microphone, because that opinion means nothing to me.
Re: JK how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Re: JK how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Toby bets. Believe me.
Re: JK how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Toby bets. Believe me.
ChiTownJoe
EOG Dedicated
Re: JK how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Re: JK how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
2W2P2S - thanks on Toby bet info.
I wonder how much Peter Miller made on that 2nd race on Friday? He looked like he just won a Breeders Cup race. It reminded me of that FTS MCL he put over last Feb at SA, Laugh at Life.
http://www.drf.com/news/brad-free-miller-rode-first-timer-all-way-bank
I used that horse in Pk3 and Pk5 but missed the 3rd leg in r3. I think the Pk3 paid over 8k.
Re: JK how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
2W2P2S - thanks on Toby bet info.
I wonder how much Peter Miller made on that 2nd race on Friday? He looked like he just won a Breeders Cup race. It reminded me of that FTS MCL he put over last Feb at SA, Laugh at Life.
http://www.drf.com/news/brad-free-miller-rode-first-timer-all-way-bank
I used that horse in Pk3 and Pk5 but missed the 3rd leg in r3. I think the Pk3 paid over 8k.
Re: JK how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Re: JK how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Pure coincidence, Bob. I liked Aaron's contributions to the radio show and he was right about the low-quality horseflesh at Fairplex. I think Aaron's prickly personality rubbed some people at South Point, the show's sponsor, the wrong way. In the end, Patrick McQuiggan made the executive decision.
Re: JK how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Pure coincidence, Bob. I liked Aaron's contributions to the radio show and he was right about the low-quality horseflesh at Fairplex. I think Aaron's prickly personality rubbed some people at South Point, the show's sponsor, the wrong way. In the end, Patrick McQuiggan made the executive decision.
Re: JK how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Re: JK how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
I somehow missed your question, Crick.
Re: JK how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
I somehow missed your question, Crick.
Re: JK how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Re: JK how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Yeah, I liked Aaron's contributions as well. I think even to a casual listener he was a far better handicapper than anyone else on the show. That might have been another source of friction.
However, its virtually impossible to believe that the timing was coincidental. There was no mention on that Sept. 7 show of its being his last, so clearly the move hadn't been made beforehand or at least some perfunctory thank you to Aaron was due. The next day, Sunday Sept 8, and the next week, both Sat. and Sunday, I heard no mention of the decision to drop Hesz. In fact, even to this day, I don't think it has been acknowledged on the show.
IMO, very classless move by McQuiggan and the Southpoint to not announce that they were dropping Hesz and further not even acknowledge and thank Aaron for his contributions to the show.
Re: JK how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Yeah, I liked Aaron's contributions as well. I think even to a casual listener he was a far better handicapper than anyone else on the show. That might have been another source of friction.
However, its virtually impossible to believe that the timing was coincidental. There was no mention on that Sept. 7 show of its being his last, so clearly the move hadn't been made beforehand or at least some perfunctory thank you to Aaron was due. The next day, Sunday Sept 8, and the next week, both Sat. and Sunday, I heard no mention of the decision to drop Hesz. In fact, even to this day, I don't think it has been acknowledged on the show.
IMO, very classless move by McQuiggan and the Southpoint to not announce that they were dropping Hesz and further not even acknowledge and thank Aaron for his contributions to the show.
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
If I remember correctly, the Saturday following Aaron's criticism of Fairplex was a Jewish holiday. Aaron was scheduled to be off that day. Patrick then called Aaron and told him about the situation.
If I remember correctly, the Saturday following Aaron's criticism of Fairplex was a Jewish holiday. Aaron was scheduled to be off that day. Patrick then called Aaron and told him about the situation.
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Bob, if I remember correctly, I think I stated on the September 14th show that Aaron would no longer be part of the lineup.
Bob, if I remember correctly, I think I stated on the September 14th show that Aaron would no longer be part of the lineup.
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Well, Sat. Sept 14 was Yom Kippur so Hesz may have skipped the show because of that. I habitually make notes on the picks made for the show and I had prepared a line for a pick for Hesz with the note NOT ON SHOW next to it. I would not have made that note if you stated that he would no longer be on the show (I would have put DROPPED FROM SHOW or just lined out his name). At least I didn't hear you say it, maybe I missed it.
I have to say that I can certainly see why Southpoint was pissed at Hesz' comments about Fairplex. I can see why they dropped him because of it. That's hardly coincidental, its direct causation. To suggest that the cause was just some long standing prickly personality issue that happened to accidentally coincide with his inflammatory comments strains credulity.
Well, Sat. Sept 14 was Yom Kippur so Hesz may have skipped the show because of that. I habitually make notes on the picks made for the show and I had prepared a line for a pick for Hesz with the note NOT ON SHOW next to it. I would not have made that note if you stated that he would no longer be on the show (I would have put DROPPED FROM SHOW or just lined out his name). At least I didn't hear you say it, maybe I missed it.
I have to say that I can certainly see why Southpoint was pissed at Hesz' comments about Fairplex. I can see why they dropped him because of it. That's hardly coincidental, its direct causation. To suggest that the cause was just some long standing prickly personality issue that happened to accidentally coincide with his inflammatory comments strains credulity.
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Believe me, Bob, discussions of dropping Hesz from the show started early in the summer, long before his comments about Fairplex and his actual dismissal. Check your notes for September 21 because I'm sure I mentioned he would no longer be contributing to the show. The journalist in me made sure to note his departure.
Believe me, Bob, discussions of dropping Hesz from the show started early in the summer, long before his comments about Fairplex and his actual dismissal. Check your notes for September 21 because I'm sure I mentioned he would no longer be contributing to the show. The journalist in me made sure to note his departure.
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
JK, thanks for the reply.
My notes for Sept 21 have no mention of Hesz, I remember thinking that because the Fairplex track was again the subject of discussion, and because of his opinions, he obviously wasn't participating. Then on Sept. 28, Santa Anita was back in session, and he wasn't on the show, I surmised that he had been dismissed. I just don't ever remember any statement that he was dismissed or would no longer be contributing.
Again, I don't question that Hesz had some long-time detractors because of his personality (and perhaps because of his talent). Let's review the timeline, you are saying that his dismissal was discussed long before Sept 7, but rather than make his last show coincide with the closing of Del Mar (which would be logical), it was somehow chosen to be just after the Yom Kippur show which he missed because of religious reasons? So maybe the Southpoint became aware that Hesz was Jewish and canned him because that was "the straw that broke the camel's back"? I just can't get past the elephant in the room that Hesz' Fairplex comments seem to be the obvious "last straw".
You claim that the comments and dismissal was "pure coincidence", please answer the question: "If Hesz' comment had little or no impact on his dismissal, then what specific actions precipitated it to be on or about Sept 14?"
JK, thanks for the reply.
My notes for Sept 21 have no mention of Hesz, I remember thinking that because the Fairplex track was again the subject of discussion, and because of his opinions, he obviously wasn't participating. Then on Sept. 28, Santa Anita was back in session, and he wasn't on the show, I surmised that he had been dismissed. I just don't ever remember any statement that he was dismissed or would no longer be contributing.
Again, I don't question that Hesz had some long-time detractors because of his personality (and perhaps because of his talent). Let's review the timeline, you are saying that his dismissal was discussed long before Sept 7, but rather than make his last show coincide with the closing of Del Mar (which would be logical), it was somehow chosen to be just after the Yom Kippur show which he missed because of religious reasons? So maybe the Southpoint became aware that Hesz was Jewish and canned him because that was "the straw that broke the camel's back"? I just can't get past the elephant in the room that Hesz' Fairplex comments seem to be the obvious "last straw".
You claim that the comments and dismissal was "pure coincidence", please answer the question: "If Hesz' comment had little or no impact on his dismissal, then what specific actions precipitated it to be on or about Sept 14?"
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Aaron's religion never was a factor (this is 2013, thank goodness) and you will have to believe me about his Fairplex comments. I found his Fairplex commentary funny and forthright and typical of Aaron's style. If I had to bet, I believe I mentioned Aaron's absence from the show in a short sentence on September 21.
Aaron's religion never was a factor (this is 2013, thank goodness) and you will have to believe me about his Fairplex comments. I found his Fairplex commentary funny and forthright and typical of Aaron's style. If I had to bet, I believe I mentioned Aaron's absence from the show in a short sentence on September 21.
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
I can only tell you my limited knowledge of what I know about this situation.
As those of you who listen to Track Talk regularly know, I always do my best to enlighten anyone to the best of my knowledge on what goes on in thoroughbred racing. I have always felt that the public feels this is an "insiders" game and I am of the belief that transparency is paramount as Horse Racing is less popular now than at any time since I began following the races in 1978. Some may refer to me as "prickly", I do not think that is a correct adjective, I believe I just say what I think, for better or worse. That blunt style may not ingratiate me with everyone, but it is all I know how to be and there is nothing phony about me.
I believe much of the tension was exposed when Patrick would quote statistics that I felt were meaningless and then ask me what I thought, which in turn I rebutted. I have always felt much like Gordon Jones before him, Patrick wanted the bulk of the attention and popularity of the show centered around him and his opinion rather the sport itself. Having hosted and co-hosted many radio shows, I am completely opposite, and that is one of the things I despise about TVG as well. The sport of Horse Racing is what followers of the sport focus on, NOT the people hosting or presenting the event.
There were times I when the show ended I would call up John Kelly completely frustrated with events and conversations that went on. I would not be surprised if those were forwarded on. I also believe that Patrick felt threatened and was not comfortable when we discuss picks. At Del Mar the first week of the meet, John, Patrick and I discussed the San Diego Handicap. John actually had an opinion on the race, which coincided with mine, and Patrick completely disagreed and I thought was pretty rude at the time in the way he attacked John on the air. Needless to say, Patrick was dead wrong and the horses John and I liked ran one-two. That was the beginning of the tension on air, and when Patrick gave an uninformed or erroneous opinion, I called him out on it.
I am not a fan of Fairplex Park racing and never have been. I think the quality is terrible and it is extremely dangerous. Comptr Bob mentioned that I made an acerbic comment, and it probably was a bit over the top (I cannot believe someone takes such thorough notes on anything I say
). The next week I took off because of Yom Kippur. I received a call the day after that from Patrick informing me "the show was going in a different direction" and asked me if I would be on occasionally, rather than regularly. I asked him if the OTHER guests on the show, Toby or Tom Quigley were also going to have their time diminish. He said no, only my spot. He also said it was not his decision solely, but John Kelly had imput (which John denied) as well. He then came with the usual rhetoric that he respected my opinion and it was nothing personal, etc.. I then proceeded to ask the same question that was thrown out on here, was it because I missed the show due to Yom Kippur. I did not get a completely straight answer on that, but it was inferred that it was not the reason. Toby and Quigley are both very rah rah type people, I do not share that type of personality trait. I will say publicly I cannot stand Toby, I loath his politics, personality and his opinion on racing. I can tell you many stories about him, but this is not the right forum to do so.
My life is not going to change not participating on Track Talk. The reason I enjoy doing radio is to give the listeners all the insight I can provide on Horse Racing. I have said for many years the reason Horse Racings popularity has diminished is because the newcomer is in the dark. Other popular sports, Baseball, Basketball, Football, etc. do not have the intricacies Thoroughbred Racing. And the time and expense it takes to become well educated about racing doesn't interest people. The lack of national exposure doesn't help either. I have always felt if I can enlighten people or make the racing game a bit more transparent, then I have helped in a small way. It has been brought up previously on this forum, why I give out my selections when the price of the horses I give out is affected. For one, I do not think my opinion has that much influence on the board. Secondly, if giving out one winning selection (hopefully) a week on the air helps others do well, then that will keep people enjoying and betting on the sport.
I also did the EOG show with John several times in the past year. I have really enjoyed doing that show with him and Dave Glisan. I am surprised I have not been asked back on that show, but that is something John can touch upon.
I would be happy to answer any other questions anyone might have and I appreciate the passion so many of you have in our industry.
Aaron Hesz
I can only tell you my limited knowledge of what I know about this situation.
As those of you who listen to Track Talk regularly know, I always do my best to enlighten anyone to the best of my knowledge on what goes on in thoroughbred racing. I have always felt that the public feels this is an "insiders" game and I am of the belief that transparency is paramount as Horse Racing is less popular now than at any time since I began following the races in 1978. Some may refer to me as "prickly", I do not think that is a correct adjective, I believe I just say what I think, for better or worse. That blunt style may not ingratiate me with everyone, but it is all I know how to be and there is nothing phony about me.
I believe much of the tension was exposed when Patrick would quote statistics that I felt were meaningless and then ask me what I thought, which in turn I rebutted. I have always felt much like Gordon Jones before him, Patrick wanted the bulk of the attention and popularity of the show centered around him and his opinion rather the sport itself. Having hosted and co-hosted many radio shows, I am completely opposite, and that is one of the things I despise about TVG as well. The sport of Horse Racing is what followers of the sport focus on, NOT the people hosting or presenting the event.
There were times I when the show ended I would call up John Kelly completely frustrated with events and conversations that went on. I would not be surprised if those were forwarded on. I also believe that Patrick felt threatened and was not comfortable when we discuss picks. At Del Mar the first week of the meet, John, Patrick and I discussed the San Diego Handicap. John actually had an opinion on the race, which coincided with mine, and Patrick completely disagreed and I thought was pretty rude at the time in the way he attacked John on the air. Needless to say, Patrick was dead wrong and the horses John and I liked ran one-two. That was the beginning of the tension on air, and when Patrick gave an uninformed or erroneous opinion, I called him out on it.
I am not a fan of Fairplex Park racing and never have been. I think the quality is terrible and it is extremely dangerous. Comptr Bob mentioned that I made an acerbic comment, and it probably was a bit over the top (I cannot believe someone takes such thorough notes on anything I say
). The next week I took off because of Yom Kippur. I received a call the day after that from Patrick informing me "the show was going in a different direction" and asked me if I would be on occasionally, rather than regularly. I asked him if the OTHER guests on the show, Toby or Tom Quigley were also going to have their time diminish. He said no, only my spot. He also said it was not his decision solely, but John Kelly had imput (which John denied) as well. He then came with the usual rhetoric that he respected my opinion and it was nothing personal, etc.. I then proceeded to ask the same question that was thrown out on here, was it because I missed the show due to Yom Kippur. I did not get a completely straight answer on that, but it was inferred that it was not the reason. Toby and Quigley are both very rah rah type people, I do not share that type of personality trait. I will say publicly I cannot stand Toby, I loath his politics, personality and his opinion on racing. I can tell you many stories about him, but this is not the right forum to do so. My life is not going to change not participating on Track Talk. The reason I enjoy doing radio is to give the listeners all the insight I can provide on Horse Racing. I have said for many years the reason Horse Racings popularity has diminished is because the newcomer is in the dark. Other popular sports, Baseball, Basketball, Football, etc. do not have the intricacies Thoroughbred Racing. And the time and expense it takes to become well educated about racing doesn't interest people. The lack of national exposure doesn't help either. I have always felt if I can enlighten people or make the racing game a bit more transparent, then I have helped in a small way. It has been brought up previously on this forum, why I give out my selections when the price of the horses I give out is affected. For one, I do not think my opinion has that much influence on the board. Secondly, if giving out one winning selection (hopefully) a week on the air helps others do well, then that will keep people enjoying and betting on the sport.
I also did the EOG show with John several times in the past year. I have really enjoyed doing that show with him and Dave Glisan. I am surprised I have not been asked back on that show, but that is something John can touch upon.
I would be happy to answer any other questions anyone might have and I appreciate the passion so many of you have in our industry.
Aaron Hesz
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
I just have a bunch of note cards for the various shows that probably goes back several years. Since there is no archive of the radio show that I know of, any collation of records I have may be incomplete.
Some rainy day, I might do a summary of McQuiggan's picks. AFAIK, Turrell doesn't even specify a betting strategy so I would have to maybe assume just a simple win bet.
I just have a bunch of note cards for the various shows that probably goes back several years. Since there is no archive of the radio show that I know of, any collation of records I have may be incomplete.
Some rainy day, I might do a summary of McQuiggan's picks. AFAIK, Turrell doesn't even specify a betting strategy so I would have to maybe assume just a simple win bet.
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Before reading your post (Aaron), I was going to post that I believe this may have had something to do with Patrick taking exception to you contradicting some of his garbage. The Fairplex comment may have given him an excuse. He is a complete disaster, and once again his Ego run amok has ruined a good thing.
FTR,
I didn't like the way you let your personal opinion of Toby enter onto the radio. His handicapping, information, wagering strategies, work reports, etc. are all fair game. But I thought some of your comments stemming from things such as political disagreements were unnecessary. It probably should also be pointed out in fairness, you work for a competing entity. And it's hard to separate any bias towards his knowledge or skill in horse racing with your personal feelings on unrelated matters.
Before reading your post (Aaron), I was going to post that I believe this may have had something to do with Patrick taking exception to you contradicting some of his garbage. The Fairplex comment may have given him an excuse. He is a complete disaster, and once again his Ego run amok has ruined a good thing.
FTR,
I didn't like the way you let your personal opinion of Toby enter onto the radio. His handicapping, information, wagering strategies, work reports, etc. are all fair game. But I thought some of your comments stemming from things such as political disagreements were unnecessary. It probably should also be pointed out in fairness, you work for a competing entity. And it's hard to separate any bias towards his knowledge or skill in horse racing with your personal feelings on unrelated matters.
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
And I respect your opinion on that matter... I think the guy is a complete fraud... He and his partner Donald Harris subscribe to Handicappers Report and while I think Donald works very hard, gives times and a thorough opinion on the works he sees, Toby does not. If you ever read what Toby writes, it is nearly verbatim of what our clockers have reported. He rarely gives times, instead it appears something like, this squatty gelding looked fine. It is complete bullshit. But I am not going to sit here and bash the guy any further, those who respect and enjoy his commentary, ce'st la vie.
And I respect your opinion on that matter... I think the guy is a complete fraud... He and his partner Donald Harris subscribe to Handicappers Report and while I think Donald works very hard, gives times and a thorough opinion on the works he sees, Toby does not. If you ever read what Toby writes, it is nearly verbatim of what our clockers have reported. He rarely gives times, instead it appears something like, this squatty gelding looked fine. It is complete bullshit. But I am not going to sit here and bash the guy any further, those who respect and enjoy his commentary, ce'st la vie.
ChiTownJoe
EOG Dedicated
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Thanks for the response Aaron. I'll still listen to you on with Willman/Hoover on Sunday when I'm playing. It's a shame you're still not on Sat morning.
I listened to most of the shows from Feb - August and Aaron gave out alot of useful info, even Patrick mentioned once that his wife told him to call Aaron and find out who he likes (might have been the Belmont). I remember Joelito at around 6-1 winning easy and then showing up in the 3yo grass stake at CD derby week. I don't need Toby to come on and tell me that a Bob Baffert 1st time starter with bullets all over the page and cost 750K as a yearling has a good chance of winning a MSW at 3-5 and that his pick of the day.
I stayed at the South Point in July for one night with the family before we had to head back to Chicago. I went downstairs and picked up Patrick's sheet because I had never seen it and was wondering what it was all about. I thought it might be similar to what Ken Masse (HTR) puts out or Jon Lindo provides for the Coast properties. I hear Patrick all the time mentioning power numbers he makes, internal speed ratings, ...etc. and thought I'll have to check out his sheet to see if I might be able to decipher something useful out of this information I'm always hearing Patrick talk about. So I pick it up and its possible that I missed an accompanying sheet, but there was no information. I can't even tell you what it exactly looked like, I think it had 3 columns like key contenders, live longshots, and exotic players or something like that. No explanations, no conditions, no fractions, no race shapes, no horse names (just program #'s). I'm not sure it even listed odds. Maybe I'm wrong and missed something, if so somebody in LV or someone that has seen this sheet can correct me.
Anyway I'm not a person who is going to bash anybody who puts in the work, but if Patrick is coming up with all these figures/power ratings, why aren't they on his sheet at the South Point?
Thanks for the response Aaron. I'll still listen to you on with Willman/Hoover on Sunday when I'm playing. It's a shame you're still not on Sat morning.
I listened to most of the shows from Feb - August and Aaron gave out alot of useful info, even Patrick mentioned once that his wife told him to call Aaron and find out who he likes (might have been the Belmont). I remember Joelito at around 6-1 winning easy and then showing up in the 3yo grass stake at CD derby week. I don't need Toby to come on and tell me that a Bob Baffert 1st time starter with bullets all over the page and cost 750K as a yearling has a good chance of winning a MSW at 3-5 and that his pick of the day.
I stayed at the South Point in July for one night with the family before we had to head back to Chicago. I went downstairs and picked up Patrick's sheet because I had never seen it and was wondering what it was all about. I thought it might be similar to what Ken Masse (HTR) puts out or Jon Lindo provides for the Coast properties. I hear Patrick all the time mentioning power numbers he makes, internal speed ratings, ...etc. and thought I'll have to check out his sheet to see if I might be able to decipher something useful out of this information I'm always hearing Patrick talk about. So I pick it up and its possible that I missed an accompanying sheet, but there was no information. I can't even tell you what it exactly looked like, I think it had 3 columns like key contenders, live longshots, and exotic players or something like that. No explanations, no conditions, no fractions, no race shapes, no horse names (just program #'s). I'm not sure it even listed odds. Maybe I'm wrong and missed something, if so somebody in LV or someone that has seen this sheet can correct me.
Anyway I'm not a person who is going to bash anybody who puts in the work, but if Patrick is coming up with all these figures/power ratings, why aren't they on his sheet at the South Point?
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Thanks for your heartfelt response, Aaron. Unfortunate situation, to say the least. To repeat, I had no input in the decision to eliminate Aaron's segment on Track Talk. As far as Aaron's appearances on The EOG Sports Hour, a high-standing member of the EOG community hinted I exclude Aaron from future appearances on the late-night program. In the short term, I respected the request and chose to invite guests other than Aaron.
Thanks for your heartfelt response, Aaron. Unfortunate situation, to say the least. To repeat, I had no input in the decision to eliminate Aaron's segment on Track Talk. As far as Aaron's appearances on The EOG Sports Hour, a high-standing member of the EOG community hinted I exclude Aaron from future appearances on the late-night program. In the short term, I respected the request and chose to invite guests other than Aaron.
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Thanks for the reply.
For those who don't know what "McQuiggan" statistics you are talking about, they are something to the effect: "John, take the first 5 days of action at Del Mar, out of 12 6 furlong races either the lead horse (at the break, or the turn, or at the first qtr, or at some point) has won x times, or post position 1 thru 5 has won y times, but then when we look at 6.5 furlong races in 4 races, the lead horse has only won once, etc., etc."
He then tries to extrapolate this to a speed horse or the pole position in a particular race. Really ridiculously small samples and no adjustment for the true probabilities that the horses in the data sample should win.
My notes aren't that throughout. Its just the frankness of the comments and the dead air that followed that blew me away (and made it memorable). Again, with your rendition of events, it seems that the Fairplex comments were the "last straw". The excuse of the "different direction" is really hilarious since there has been no replacement for you, just more blather from McQuiggan on Saturdays.
I, for one, appreciate your efforts on the "Track Talk" show to provide your insights. I also enjoy an occasional insight from JK. For me, its a guilty pleasure, I laugh at Turrell and McQuiggan's amateurism and ineptitude on the show, much like I used to do when watching Jim Feist's Proline or Wayne Root's tout shows.
Thanks for the reply.
For those who don't know what "McQuiggan" statistics you are talking about, they are something to the effect: "John, take the first 5 days of action at Del Mar, out of 12 6 furlong races either the lead horse (at the break, or the turn, or at the first qtr, or at some point) has won x times, or post position 1 thru 5 has won y times, but then when we look at 6.5 furlong races in 4 races, the lead horse has only won once, etc., etc."
He then tries to extrapolate this to a speed horse or the pole position in a particular race. Really ridiculously small samples and no adjustment for the true probabilities that the horses in the data sample should win.
I am not a fan of Fairplex Park racing and never have been. I think the quality is terrible and it is extremely dangerous. Comptr Bob mentioned that I made an acerbic comment, and it probably was a bit over the top (I cannot believe someone takes such thorough notes on anything I say
My notes aren't that throughout. Its just the frankness of the comments and the dead air that followed that blew me away (and made it memorable). Again, with your rendition of events, it seems that the Fairplex comments were the "last straw". The excuse of the "different direction" is really hilarious since there has been no replacement for you, just more blather from McQuiggan on Saturdays.
I, for one, appreciate your efforts on the "Track Talk" show to provide your insights. I also enjoy an occasional insight from JK. For me, its a guilty pleasure, I laugh at Turrell and McQuiggan's amateurism and ineptitude on the show, much like I used to do when watching Jim Feist's Proline or Wayne Root's tout shows.
ChiTownJoe
EOG Dedicated
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
I wish the EOG brass would reconsider and get Aaron on to talk on big days, give him 15 minutes once a month to talk about the Hollywood turf Festival in Nov, SA opening day 12/26, Derby Trail in feb, mar, apr, Triple Crown, DMR/SAR, Breeders Cup.
I wish the EOG brass would reconsider and get Aaron on to talk on big days, give him 15 minutes once a month to talk about the Hollywood turf Festival in Nov, SA opening day 12/26, Derby Trail in feb, mar, apr, Triple Crown, DMR/SAR, Breeders Cup.
O'Royken
EOG Dedicated
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Hey Aaron, what happened between you and Roger Stein? I liked you on his show. Stein hinted you would go off at the paddock on connections and personnel at the track rather rudely and unprofessional. I don't think that is the reason you are no longer on Roger's show but I listen to his show and know he thinks the same about Toby as you do.
Hey Aaron, what happened between you and Roger Stein? I liked you on his show. Stein hinted you would go off at the paddock on connections and personnel at the track rather rudely and unprofessional. I don't think that is the reason you are no longer on Roger's show but I listen to his show and know he thinks the same about Toby as you do.
Tim Patterson
EOG Dedicated
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
One of the most intersesting threads I have read in a long time.
Being a longtime racing fan this was quite a scoop.
Aaron, thanks for the reply.
Chitown, excellent topic and lots of good responses by all.
This was not the usual "bash and destroy" I see in here.
One of the most intersesting threads I have read in a long time.
Being a longtime racing fan this was quite a scoop.
Aaron, thanks for the reply.
Chitown, excellent topic and lots of good responses by all.
This was not the usual "bash and destroy" I see in here.
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
After 6+ years of being on the air together, Roger and I ran our course. In May of 2007, I was a co-plaintiff in a law suit against one of Roger's owners that Roger asked me not to continue or go further with. It went forth, and Roger was called on as a witness. He was rather unflattering on the stand towards me. We won the case that Friday and I was eliminated from the show the following day.
Several years later he asked me if I would come back and do a show with the current cast, which I deliberated on then reluctantly said yes. I made a tongue-in-cheek comment during the show about being back that didn't sit well with Hardoon or Roger and he made several offensive comments the next day about me. After that I felt it was in my best interest to no longer be involved with Roger or his show.
As far as me "going off on connections and personnel at the racetrack", that has not happened, but I am not shy in stating my opinion and that isn't always appreciated by certain people.
After 6+ years of being on the air together, Roger and I ran our course. In May of 2007, I was a co-plaintiff in a law suit against one of Roger's owners that Roger asked me not to continue or go further with. It went forth, and Roger was called on as a witness. He was rather unflattering on the stand towards me. We won the case that Friday and I was eliminated from the show the following day.
Several years later he asked me if I would come back and do a show with the current cast, which I deliberated on then reluctantly said yes. I made a tongue-in-cheek comment during the show about being back that didn't sit well with Hardoon or Roger and he made several offensive comments the next day about me. After that I felt it was in my best interest to no longer be involved with Roger or his show.
As far as me "going off on connections and personnel at the racetrack", that has not happened, but I am not shy in stating my opinion and that isn't always appreciated by certain people.
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Yes, unfortunate situation for sure. I find it hard to reconcile that you had no input into the decision to can Aaron, yet you are adamant that the dismissal was purely coincidental with Hesz' Fairplex comments just a week before the dismissal. How in the world do you know this?
I find that you allowing some anonymous EOG contributor (who also apparently has not even revealed any reason to the community) to essentially blackball Aaron from the EOG radio show both disappointing and disgusting. With so many goofballs and non-mainstream topics allowed to contaminate EOG radio already, I really think that banning very strong guests like Aaron who are willing to participate is a huge mistake.
Yes, unfortunate situation for sure. I find it hard to reconcile that you had no input into the decision to can Aaron, yet you are adamant that the dismissal was purely coincidental with Hesz' Fairplex comments just a week before the dismissal. How in the world do you know this?
I find that you allowing some anonymous EOG contributor (who also apparently has not even revealed any reason to the community) to essentially blackball Aaron from the EOG radio show both disappointing and disgusting. With so many goofballs and non-mainstream topics allowed to contaminate EOG radio already, I really think that banning very strong guests like Aaron who are willing to participate is a huge mistake.
ChiTownJoe
EOG Dedicated
O'Royken
EOG Dedicated
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Everyone who knows anything about Fairplex Park specifically and horse racing in general would agree with Aaron's critical comments about the racing action at the Los Angeles County Fair. To link Aaron's denunciation of the minor-league track with his dismissal from the radio program is ridiculous. As for Aaron's exclusion from The EOG Sports Hour, it came at a time when Aaron had a conflict with a member of the SoCal backstretch. I saw my actions as more of a suspension than a banishment.
Everyone who knows anything about Fairplex Park specifically and horse racing in general would agree with Aaron's critical comments about the racing action at the Los Angeles County Fair. To link Aaron's denunciation of the minor-league track with his dismissal from the radio program is ridiculous. As for Aaron's exclusion from The EOG Sports Hour, it came at a time when Aaron had a conflict with a member of the SoCal backstretch. I saw my actions as more of a suspension than a banishment.
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Very interesting revelations coming out in this thread. Sometimes smart guys catch friction from the mainstream, especially when they have a bit of attitude. Got to be yourself and let the chips fall where they may. Or change your course. Which Aaron seems to be comfortably against. Much respect.
Where can Aaron be heard these day on the radio? This has peaked my interest.
Very interesting revelations coming out in this thread. Sometimes smart guys catch friction from the mainstream, especially when they have a bit of attitude. Got to be yourself and let the chips fall where they may. Or change your course. Which Aaron seems to be comfortably against. Much respect.
Where can Aaron be heard these day on the radio? This has peaked my interest.
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
I am on KLAA 830 AM in Southern California for a segment Sunday morning on Thoroughbred L.A. It airs from 9 - 10 a.m. I am generally on during the last 10 - 12 minutes of the show.
John Kelly, if my comment about Emily Mode (she is not much of a member of the So. Calif. backstretch either) on the EOG show got me banished (guess Dink has a lot of influence over you), then 3/4 of the backside, including a male trainer who she nearly got into a fist fight with recently, and a female trainer whose dad is a 50 year veteran of the training game that she had a nasty drag out fight with, would also be excluded. I think you're on the wrong side of the fence on this my friend. And I certainly know in the long haul, which one of the two of us (Emily or myself) will be around in five years (or two, or one)
I am on KLAA 830 AM in Southern California for a segment Sunday morning on Thoroughbred L.A. It airs from 9 - 10 a.m. I am generally on during the last 10 - 12 minutes of the show.
John Kelly, if my comment about Emily Mode (she is not much of a member of the So. Calif. backstretch either) on the EOG show got me banished (guess Dink has a lot of influence over you), then 3/4 of the backside, including a male trainer who she nearly got into a fist fight with recently, and a female trainer whose dad is a 50 year veteran of the training game that she had a nasty drag out fight with, would also be excluded. I think you're on the wrong side of the fence on this my friend. And I certainly know in the long haul, which one of the two of us (Emily or myself) will be around in five years (or two, or one)
Tim Patterson
EOG Dedicated
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Aaron, I've bookmarked the URL.
Aaron, I've bookmarked the URL.
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Ok, just to summarize (and then I promise I'll let it rest ..lol) the various answers to your question here, given the consensus (JK and Hesz) that Patrick McQuiggan was primarily responsible for dismissing Aaron Hesz from the radio show:
1. McQuiggan tells Hesz (according to Aaron) they are "going in a different direction" and its "nothing personal". McQuiggan apparently admits that none of the other guests are affected by this "new direction". Indeed after reading Hesz' comments, all the "new direction' seems, in my view, just to be do the show without Hesz.
2. JK says that Hesz' "prickly personality" annoyed some folks at Southpoint, JK says he was given no input into the process, but claims it had nothing to do with Hesz' acerbic remarks the week before. The timing of the dismissal was apparently just arbitrarily decided.
3. As a listener to the show and complete outsider, I certainly can't prove what the real causes were. Its possible this was in the works for months and already decided just as its possible the remarks on Sept. 7 were the last straw. Its really not that important, there was obviously some important conflict and disenchantment with Hesz, no matter who's story you believe.
I think more important to listeners would be if JK would be up to making a clarifying statement on the next Saturday show. Something to the effect that a long-time listener (me) contacted John about missing the announcement that Aaron was dropped as a contributor and that listener wanted to acknowledge and thank Aaron for his contributions on the show.
Your reaction John?
Ok, just to summarize (and then I promise I'll let it rest ..lol) the various answers to your question here, given the consensus (JK and Hesz) that Patrick McQuiggan was primarily responsible for dismissing Aaron Hesz from the radio show:
1. McQuiggan tells Hesz (according to Aaron) they are "going in a different direction" and its "nothing personal". McQuiggan apparently admits that none of the other guests are affected by this "new direction". Indeed after reading Hesz' comments, all the "new direction' seems, in my view, just to be do the show without Hesz.
2. JK says that Hesz' "prickly personality" annoyed some folks at Southpoint, JK says he was given no input into the process, but claims it had nothing to do with Hesz' acerbic remarks the week before. The timing of the dismissal was apparently just arbitrarily decided.
3. As a listener to the show and complete outsider, I certainly can't prove what the real causes were. Its possible this was in the works for months and already decided just as its possible the remarks on Sept. 7 were the last straw. Its really not that important, there was obviously some important conflict and disenchantment with Hesz, no matter who's story you believe.
I think more important to listeners would be if JK would be up to making a clarifying statement on the next Saturday show. Something to the effect that a long-time listener (me) contacted John about missing the announcement that Aaron was dropped as a contributor and that listener wanted to acknowledge and thank Aaron for his contributions on the show.
Your reaction John?
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Not enough time between Patrick talking about Patrick.
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Ok, out of morbid curiosity, I went back over the last 3 1/2 months, Aug 3 thru Nov 10. I missed Patrick McQuiggan's picks on two shows, Aug 24 and Oct 20. The rules, as I understand them, are to "wager" up to $50 per show, usually the bets are W/P/S, DD, and Exactas.
Out of a total of 28 shows, he had 7 winning days, $1390 wagered, net -$244.
Ok, out of morbid curiosity, I went back over the last 3 1/2 months, Aug 3 thru Nov 10. I missed Patrick McQuiggan's picks on two shows, Aug 24 and Oct 20. The rules, as I understand them, are to "wager" up to $50 per show, usually the bets are W/P/S, DD, and Exactas.
Out of a total of 28 shows, he had 7 winning days, $1390 wagered, net -$244.
Re: JK, how come Aaron wasn't on show on Sat morning?
Thanks for the recordkeeping. Stay tuned next Saturday and I'll mention your gratitude for Aaron's contributions.
Thanks for the recordkeeping. Stay tuned next Saturday and I'll mention your gratitude for Aaron's contributions.
