Kyrie Irving

brians

EOG Dedicated
#42
Re: kyrie irving

Re: kyrie irving

Sure but the Celtics traded their two best defenders and got kyrie back. Seems dangerous
Bradley was a terrific defender. Crowder always struck me as more of a tough player than a good defender. But your point is a good one.
However, Brown showed in the playoffs that he can defend multiple positions well and Marcus Smart's defensive ability has been on display for a couple years. Adding Marcus Morris & Aron Baynes will help replace the toughness they lost with Crowder.

IT's hip issue was no small factor in this either. There was no way they were going give IT a max+ contract.
I liked the Tatum pick a lot, but now that IT is gone, I wish Boston had selected Ball #1 overall and saved the IT/Crowder trade for Jimmy Butler rather than Irving.
 

kane

Railbird is a past posting pos
#43
Re: kyrie irving

Re: kyrie irving

To sum things up, the Celtics picked up Gordon Heyward, Marcus Morris, and Kyrie Irving. They gave up Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynik, IT, Jae Crowder, Ante Zizic, and the Brooklyn pick. Looking at it, I don't know if this makes Boston better or not, but it was obvious Ainge didn't want to give IT the max next year, and resigning Irving to a long term deal is a priority. The thing I overlooked was Irving's age, he's only 25, it seems like he's older since he's been in the league for a while, but he's entering his prime years right now. I have trust in Danny and Brad, so even though I think the C's lost a lot in this offseason, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and hopefully things work out
 

kane

Railbird is a past posting pos
#45
Re: kyrie irving

Re: kyrie irving

I didn't paraphrase Stevens within the right context. What I believe he meant was that a PG is a PG and a C is a C, but everyone else is interchangeable. I think he realizes it's a wing's game, so he wants as many on the floor at one time as he can.
Yeah, Stevens views basketball as positionless, he puts players into 3 categories, you're either a ball handler, a big, or a wing
 

Valuist

EOG Dedicated
#46
Re: kyrie irving

Re: kyrie irving

They got worse imo for the sole fact that they made Cleveland better and Cleveland is their main foe.

Crowder is a great get for Cleveland.
I would say Cleveland got the best deal they could, but I believe its a stretch to say they got better. Thomas is a dreadful defender; absolutely awful. Kyrie isn't great but he's a clear upgrade on the defensive end over Thomas.
 
#47
Re: kyrie irving

Re: kyrie irving

I would say Cleveland got the best deal they could, but I believe its a stretch to say they got better. Thomas is a dreadful defender; absolutely awful. Kyrie isn't great but he's a clear upgrade on the defensive end over Thomas.
Isiah Thomas graded out as a better defensive player last year than Kyrie Irving based on nearly every single metric. Defensive win shares; defensive efficiency. The one metric Kyrie graded out slightly better was defensive Box Plus/Minus. By all accounts, they are equally dreadful defensively.

Given that defensively they are nearly equal, the addition of Crowder should actually improve their Cavs defense and versatility on that end.

IT's hip is the main concern.
 

BigDeemer

EOG Dedicated
#49
Re: Kyrie Irving

Cavs raped Celtics.

Cavs are better this year and the future.

Isiah is a scorer. Kyrie is a scorer. Both play zero defense. Cavs will roll to finals. Crowder will play a big role v GS.

Love the deal for Cavs.
 

GameBred

I Trade Therefore I Am
#50
Re: Kyrie Irving

Cavs raped Celtics.

Cavs are better this year and the future.

Isiah is a scorer. Kyrie is a scorer. Both play zero defense. Cavs will roll to finals. Crowder will play a big role v GS.

Love the deal for Cavs.
Agreed. Like in prison.

IT, JC, Zizic (don't know much about him) and a potential #1 for Kyrie. Are you fucking kidding me? The C's gave up all that to finish runner-up at best? They have to be taking the long view here as the Cavs will smash them.
 

kane

Railbird is a past posting pos
#51
Re: Kyrie Irving

Agreed. Like in prison.

IT, JC, Zizic (don't know much about him) and a potential #1 for Kyrie. Are you fucking kidding me? The C's gave up all that to finish runner-up at best? They have to be taking the long view here as the Cavs will smash them.
This year on paper the Cavs are still the better team and will most likely reach the finals, but if LBJ leaves, the Cavs will go back to being the irrelevant franchise that they were before LeBron got there, and the years he played in Miami before returning. Going forward the Celtics will have a core of Irving, Hayward, Horford, Brown, and Tatum, plus they still have the Lakers pick next year if it's between 2-5, if not they get the Kings pick the following year which will also be very high, along with a couple other number 1's. The C's are set up to be very good for the foreseeable future, whereas the Cavs will go bye bye the second LeBron leaves
 

GameBred

I Trade Therefore I Am
#52
Re: Kyrie Irving

This year on paper the Cavs are still the better team and will most likely reach the finals, but if LBJ leaves, the Cavs will go back to being the irrelevant franchise that they were before LeBron got there, and the years he played in Miami before returning. Going forward the Celtics will have a core of Irving, Hayward, Horford, Brown, and Tatum, plus they still have the Lakers pick next year if it's between 2-5, if not they get the Kings pick the following year which will also be very high, along with a couple other number 1's. The C's are set up to be very good for the foreseeable future, whereas the Cavs will go bye bye the second LeBron leaves
I think they took this one in the pants for exactly that reason; post-LBJ. I really liked Bradley, why did they get rid of him?

Kane, I have really thought about this and the C's gave up way too much, IMO. All that for Kyrie? I mean when did Kyrie become a top-10 player? He was the 6th best player in the Finals and I can name 3 guys not on the Cavs or Warriors that are better than him. He may win the MVP but so what? Curry is a 2x winner and I would take 3 of his own teammates over him if I am trying to win rings.
 

kane

Railbird is a past posting pos
#53
Re: Kyrie Irving

I think they took this one in the pants for exactly that reason; post-LBJ. I really liked Bradley, why did they get rid of him?

Kane, I have really thought about this and the C's gave up way too much, IMO. All that for Kyrie? I mean when did Kyrie become a top-10 player? He was the 6th best player in the Finals and I can name 3 guys not on the Cavs or Warriors that are better than him. He may win the MVP but so what? Curry is a 2x winner and I would take 3 of his own teammates over him if I am trying to win rings.
They traded Bradley because after this season he becomes a FA, and he's going to get paid, the C's couldn't afford him, he's one of my favorite players and one of the most underrated players in the league, he really came into his own this past year, I hated to see him go, but it had nothing to with his playing ability and everything to do with the money he'll command next year. I also think they gave up too much for Irving, but from Ainge's perspective he wasn't going to give IT max money next year when he becomes a FA, maybe the Cavs will or maybe they let him walk, but someone will pay him and it wasn't going to be the Celtics. Danny is very high on the two kids he drafted in Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum, plus he also has another pick coming that will be very high in the draft. The bottom line is I think it's a good trade for both teams, the Cavs may have gotten the better deal, but remember, Irving is only 25, he's just now reaching his prime and now that he's not under the shadow of LeBron, perhaps his best days are ahead of him
 

GameBred

I Trade Therefore I Am
#54
Re: Kyrie Irving

They traded Bradley because after this season he becomes a FA, and he's going to get paid, the C's couldn't afford him, he's one of my favorite players and one of the most underrated players in the league, he really came into his own this past year, I hated to see him go, but it had nothing to with his playing ability and everything to do with the money he'll command next year. I also think they gave up too much for Irving, but from Ainge's perspective he wasn't going to give IT max money next year when he becomes a FA, maybe the Cavs will or maybe they let him walk, but someone will pay him and it wasn't going to be the Celtics. Danny is very high on the two kids he drafted in Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum, plus he also has another pick coming that will be very high in the draft. The bottom line is I think it's a good trade for both teams, the Cavs may have gotten the better deal, but remember, Irving is only 25, he's just now reaching his prime and now that he's not under the shadow of LeBron, perhaps his best days are ahead of him
I don't hate Kyrie at all (I'm neutral on him) and I wish him well; just not in the playoffs :)

Thanks.
 

Valuist

EOG Dedicated
#55
Re: Kyrie Irving

The head oddsmaker at the Westgate said they adjusted both teams odds to win the East:

Cleveland from minus 175 to minus 150
Boston 5/2 to 2/1

They seem to feel Boston got the better of the trade.
 
#56
Re: Kyrie Irving

The head oddsmaker at the Westgate said they adjusted both teams odds to win the East:

Cleveland from minus 175 to minus 150
Boston 5/2 to 2/1

They seem to feel Boston got the better of the trade.
Given that the 2nd most (possibly the most) valuable asset they received - which was the Brooklyn pick - doesn't factor in this years odd I don't think that is a fair assumption.

Also, the public perception of Kyrie Irving is much greater than the actual production and output of Kyrie Irving.
 

Valuist

EOG Dedicated
#57
Re: Kyrie Irving

Given that the 2nd most (possibly the most) valuable asset they received - which was the Brooklyn pick - doesn't factor in this years odd I don't think that is a fair assumption.

Also, the public perception of Kyrie Irving is much greater than the actual production and output of Kyrie Irving.
I can't disagree regarding the Brooklyn pick. But I'm a bettor, not a fan of either team. I'm interested in what happens this next season.
 

BigDeemer

EOG Dedicated
#59
Re: Kyrie Irving

I think it's the opposite. Kyrie can take over games crunch time and score at will.
Here's the clueless NBA poster.

Guy can get 30+. No one doubts that.

But what about his numerous games of 7/21 from floor with 2-3 assists 5 turnovers and the guy he's guarding getting 25+?
 

GameBred

I Trade Therefore I Am
#60
Re: Kyrie Irving

I think it's the opposite. Kyrie can take over games crunch time and score at will.
No, Raiders, it is not.

Cavs w/ Kyrie ON and LBJ OFF were -120 in 635 minutes last season.

The Cavs had a negative Net Rating with Kyrie/Love ON and LBJ OFF

Say what you want about these stats but they comport w/ the eye test; they are a different and poorer team w/ Kyrie running the show.

Yes, Kyrie can take over in crunch time but you need to put in a solid 35 minutes or so to even get to that point. "The Shot" is iconic but if LBJ doesn't play out of his fucking mind the whole series, the Cavs get whitewashed and there is no oppurtunity for, 'The Shot."
 

GameBred

I Trade Therefore I Am
#63
Re: Kyrie Irving

Here's the clueless NBA poster.

Guy can get 30+. No one doubts that.

But what about his numerous games of 7/21 from floor with 2-3 assists 5 turnovers and the guy he's guarding getting 25+?
Offensively, the guy is uber-talented but he is a designated hitter; there is a cap on his value. I'm not saying he can't improve in that area, for instance, Curry isn't as bad defensively as I remember him, but Kyrie is like brain-dead defensively besides lacking effort.

Kyrie running the show doesn't scare me one fuck; the Cavs are going to bounce them off four walls come playoff time.
 

GameBred

I Trade Therefore I Am
#64
Re: Kyrie Irving

The Cavs offered Irving to GS for Klay Thompson, the Warriors wisely said no thanks. https://sports.yahoo.com/warriors-r...ing-klay-thompson-deal-151001763.html?src=rss
I was just going to say I just heard a rumor about getting a Splash Brother for Kyrie and I was like please tell me that Brother is Thompson. I would make that trade in a second. Like I said, Kyrie was the 6th best player in the Finals and now he is commanding a King's Ransom (no pun intended) on the trade market?
 
#65
Re: Kyrie Irving

Here's the clueless NBA poster.

Guy can get 30+. No one doubts that.

But what about his numerous games of 7/21 from floor with 2-3 assists 5 turnovers and the guy he's guarding getting 25+?
good point. LeBron does have a lot of those games now that he doesn't play defense. Kyrie carries the team when that happens. Irving shot over 40% from 3 last year. Inside and out he scores.
 
#66
Re: Kyrie Irving

Irving doesn't get tired and can play a full game. Brick stops driving in the 4th and Irving is just heating up.

Brick will have more turnovers and score less points than Irving.
 
#71
Re: Kyrie Irving

Raiders thinks Kyrie is better than Lebron. That's good for a laugh.

Ohhhh, that's precious. He probably would take Steph Curry over Lebron too, because the NBA gave him the MVP twice.

I wasn't sure who he was calling "brick" I didn't think you'd call the guy who was 8th in the league in scoring and led the top 30 scorers in FG% and Minutes (You'd think his FG% would be down quite a bit because he logged all those minutes)

Apparently raiders hatred of lebron is up there with javys love of the cubs. Both quite funny.
 
#73
Re: Kyrie Irving

What's funny is guys that shoot there mouth off but get real quiet when it's time to put up money to back up their statements. I'll offer two bets"

1. Irving averages more points/game than Brick.
2. Brick averages more turnovers/game than Irving.
 
#75
Re: Kyrie Irving

Maybe in the 4th quarter when Brick is gassed but I never said that for a game. In two years Irving will be better.
So 27 year old Kyrie will be better than 35 year old Lebron? That's what you're hanging your hat on? Funny thing is that's still no guarantee.

You rip Lebron's defense when Kyrie was one of the worst defenders in all of the NBA last year and the year before.
 
#76
Re: Kyrie Irving

What's funny is guys that shoot there mouth off but get real quiet when it's time to put up money to back up their statements. I'll offer two bets"

1. Irving averages more points/game than Brick.
2. Brick averages more turnovers/game than Irving.
Cool stats. I'll bet you Lebron averages more points per shot attempt, how about that? Kyrie is a dominant 3 point shooter and shoots 90% from the line. This should be easy money for you.

You know things are bad when I'm here defending Lebron.
 
#77
Re: Kyrie Irving

What's funny is guys that shoot there mouth off but get real quiet when it's time to put up money to back up their statements. I'll offer two bets"

1. Irving averages more points/game than Brick.
2. Brick averages more turnovers/game than Irving.


You call the guy Brick...Why not do this bet

Better FG% 2017-18 NBA Season
Kyrie Irving -235
Lebron James +205


I'll take Lebron James Or the guy you refer to as BRICK...Not sure what Turnovers have to do with calling a guy Brick.

Hell we can also do

Who averages more PPG 2017-18 NBA Season
Kyrie Irving -235
Lebron James +205


I'll take Lebron for 5 bucks on each of those. But those are the only 2 I'll do.
 
#78
Re: Kyrie Irving

So 27 year old Kyrie will be better than 35 year old Lebron? That's what you're hanging your hat on? Funny thing is that's still no guarantee.

You rip Lebron's defense when Kyrie was one of the worst defenders in all of the NBA last year and the year before.
LeBron was the worst defender on the court in the Finals.

and his shooting
LeBron Jamhttp://bleacherreport.com/articles/2603478-lebron-james-has-been-nbas-worst-shooter-outside-paint-during-2015-16-seasones Has Been NBA's Worst Shooter Outside Paint During 2015-16 Season
 
#79
Re: Kyrie Irving

Cool stats. I'll bet you Lebron averages more points per shot attempt, how about that? Kyrie is a dominant 3 point shooter and shoots 90% from the line. This should be easy money for you.

You know things are bad when I'm here defending Lebron.
Brick was the worst shooter in the league outside the paint the first 1/2 of 2016. Brick scores on layups and dunks. He's awful outside the paint.
 
#80
Re: Kyrie Irving

Brick was the worst shooter in the league outside the paint the first 1/2 of 2016. Brick scores on layups and dunks. He's awful outside the paint.
So this should be an easy cash for you. I'll take Lebron on more Points per attempt than Kyrie.

I've seen you point to that one article based on one half season about 100 times now.
 
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