Mike Trout...Mr No Clutch?

Heim

EOG Master
#1
Amal Shah on VSIN got a lot of heat a few weeks back for calling Trout overrated because a lot of his extrabase hits come in low leverage situations. Tonight Trout homerun a solo shot. There are a lot of those. Up 3 he hits them down 5 he hits them. What is Trout hitting with RISP this year with 2 outs? .205.
 

Valuist

EOG Dedicated
#2
I took heat earlier on here for saying Yelich and Bellinger are as valuable as Trout. Everyone wants to cite WAR with Trout. But walks play a big role in WAR; probably bigger than they should. There's key situations where he's likely taking walks when he should be driving in runs.
 
#6
nobody wants to throw you something good with men on. Sometimes it ends up that way --- look at harper vs the cubs

if he had better hitters on the team they would have to pitch to him more. Let the stiffs beat you not the best player. Same thing in hoops.
 
#7
the Fan's mike francessca talking to then manager bobby cox. Francessca asked him would he want to pitch to bonds in the playoffs with his bad batting avg ? cox replied " No " ...why ?francessca asked cox replied no such thing as clutch . He is still barry bonds.
 
Last edited:
#8
Amal Shah on VSIN got a lot of heat a few weeks back for calling Trout overrated because a lot of his extrabase hits come in low leverage situations. Tonight Trout homerun a solo shot. There are a lot of those. Up 3 he hits them down 5 he hits them. What is Trout hitting with RISP this year with 2 outs? .205.
Ive been screaming this for 5 years, He cant hit high fastballs either
 
#9
4 for 4 yesterday, leads his team in every stat, leads the league in Hr's , On base%, OPS, slugging, batting near or above .300 every year with no down years, leading the league with a HR every 10.1 at bats....

Yea, he sucks.

If you guys dont like Trout, who does meet your high standards?
 
#14
With so many samples you can pick apart anyone's resume......

No one is going to show well in every category, you can always find a spot/situation where he "chokes".

Whether it's his BA with man on base, 2-out, 9th inning, clutch situations, post-season and so on.

For example Bellinger hit .115 last year in the playoffs/WS. Struck out 16 times in 54 AB's - OBP .193, .385 OPS.

I think Yelich hits .195 in the post-season. Both small samples but that's kind of the point.....

If motivated you can find a chink in every player's armor.

Trout is not perfect but he's the best positional player in MLB and has been for several years now.

We move on.
 

kane

EOG master
#15
In complete agreement with Merlin, Heisey, and Pat. You can data mine and find some stat that isn't favorable to any player, but Trout is and has been the best player in the game for a while now. I said this many times before and I'll say it again, by the time he retires he'll be regarded as a top 10-15 player of all time, right up there with Willie Mays and those other legendary ballplayers
 

Heim

EOG Master
#16
I'd rather have Calhoun up with men on base than Trout. He's too patient waiting for his preferred pitch at the
knees. I've seen enough games to know. True pitchers give in a little with a margin either way nonetheless I
strain to think of a walk-off hit he's had over the years.
 
#17
I'd rather have Calhoun up with men on base than Trout. He's too patient waiting for his preferred pitch at the
knees. I've seen enough games to know. True pitchers give in a little with a margin either way nonetheless I
strain to think of a walk-off hit he's had over the years.
Cool story

Trout career #'s with men on base: 308/.440/.582/1.012 OPS

Trouts career #'s with runners in scoring position: .320/.470/.613/1.083 OPS
 

Heim

EOG Master
#19
About this time last year and pretty close to career clutch figs:


Overall wRC+: 192

Clutch: -1.97

Behold, something that Mike Trout doesn't do better than everyone else.

To be fair, the 27-year-old Angels star's splits don't look so bad at first:

  • Low Leverage: 224 wRC+
  • Medium Leverage: 146 wRC+
  • High Leverage: 131 wRC+
Moreover, Trout's high-leverage performance is the most extreme example of pitchers giving a dangerous hitter a wide berth. He's walked in 35.1 percent of his high-leverage plate appearances. That's easily the highest rate among all hitters who've taken at least 30 such plate appearances.

Next to that, however, is just a 6-for-24 showing in his high-leverage at-bats. Included within is just one extra-base hit, and it was a double. For that matter, 25 of Trout's 31 total home runs were hit in low-leverage spots.
 

kane

EOG master
#20
I'd rather have Calhoun up with men on base than Trout[/B]. He's too patient waiting for his preferred pitch at the
knees. I've seen enough games to know. True pitchers give in a little with a margin either way nonetheless I
strain to think of a walk-off hit he's had over the years.
So would every major league pitcher facing the Angels, let me know the next time Calhoun or any other Angel is intentionally waked to bring up Trout
 

kane

EOG master
#21
About this time last year and pretty close to career clutch figs:


Overall wRC+: 192

Clutch: -1.97

Behold, something that Mike Trout doesn't do better than everyone else.

To be fair, the 27-year-old Angels star's splits don't look so bad at first:

  • Low Leverage: 224 wRC+
  • Medium Leverage: 146 wRC+
  • High Leverage: 131 wRC+
Moreover, Trout's high-leverage performance is the most extreme example of pitchers giving a dangerous hitter a wide berth. He's walked in 35.1 percent of his high-leverage plate appearances. That's easily the highest rate among all hitters who've taken at least 30 such plate appearances.

Next to that, however, is just a 6-for-24 showing in his high-leverage at-bats. Included within is just one extra-base hit, and it was a double. For that matter, 25 of Trout's 31 total home runs were hit in low-leverage spots.
Glad you're using an extremely high sample size of AB's
 
#22
I'd rather have Calhoun up with men on base than Trout. He's too patient waiting for his preferred pitch at the
knees. I've seen enough games to know. True pitchers give in a little with a margin either way nonetheless I
strain to think of a walk-off hit he's had over the years.
My only criticism of him is he likes to take a pitch or two to start the at bat. So if he takes strike one, he's behind. a very small complaint about the best player in the game.
 

Heim

EOG Master
#23
My only criticism of him is he likes to take a pitch or two to start the at bat. So if he takes strike one, he's behind. a very small complaint about the best player in the game.

"He does have one rule: Almost always take the first pitch. “I did that in the minor leagues,” Trout said. “I took until I got a strike. I think that helped me understand the zone.”

From the start of the 2015 season through Aug. 4, Trout has swung at just 15.9 percent of first pitches, which is the 22nd-lowest rate in the majors among the 549 players in that time who have seen at least 500 pitches, according to Baseball Savant data analyzed by FiveThirtyEight."
 
#24
Cant hit elite pitchers either, 5 for 40 vs verlander with a boatload of whifs. Give me a 50lb overweight 37 yr old tony gwynn way before trout
 
#25
About this time last year and pretty close to career clutch figs:


Overall wRC+: 192

Clutch: -1.97

Behold, something that Mike Trout doesn't do better than everyone else.

To be fair, the 27-year-old Angels star's splits don't look so bad at first:

  • Low Leverage: 224 wRC+
  • Medium Leverage: 146 wRC+
  • High Leverage: 131 wRC+
Moreover, Trout's high-leverage performance is the most extreme example of pitchers giving a dangerous hitter a wide berth. He's walked in 35.1 percent of his high-leverage plate appearances. That's easily the highest rate among all hitters who've taken at least 30 such plate appearances.

Next to that, however, is just a 6-for-24 showing in his high-leverage at-bats. Included within is just one extra-base hit, and it was a double. For that matter, 25 of Trout's 31 total home runs were hit in low-leverage spots.
A person can cherry pick stats with small sample sizes like this to create any narrative they desire
 

winkyduck

TYVM Morgan William!!!
#26
4 for 4 yesterday, leads his team in every stat, leads the league in Hr's , On base%, OPS, slugging, batting near or above .300 every year with no down years, leading the league with a HR every 10.1 at bats....

Yea, he sucks.

If you guys dont like Trout, who does meet your high standards?
I said this for some time and will say it again. And again. And again

Trout can end his career with: 900 Homeruns, 3000 RBI, .400 lifetime average, A WAR of 1,000+, 15 MVP and Gold Glove awards...................

....................yet will NEVER be in the discussion for GOAT if his career has only 3 meaningful games played: Being SWEPT by KC in the 2014 ALDS when the Angels had the best record in the AL

It is very easy to compile stats in meaningless games. PLAY A MEANINGFUL GAME - THEN COME TALK TO ME!

Great Player

BUT

NOT Greatest Ever and not even in the discussion until he plays a meaningful game for the first time since 2014!
 
#27
I said this for some time and will say it again. And again. And again

Trout can end his career with: 900 Homeruns, 3000 RBI, .400 lifetime average, A WAR of 1,000+, 15 MVP and Gold Glove awards...................

....................yet will NEVER be in the discussion for GOAT if his career has only 3 meaningful games played: Being SWEPT by KC in the 2014 ALDS when the Angels had the best record in the AL

It is very easy to compile stats in meaningless games. PLAY A MEANINGFUL GAME - THEN COME TALK TO ME!

Great Player

BUT

NOT Greatest Ever and not even in the discussion until he plays a meaningful game for the first time since 2014!
How many world series did Willie mays win, or hank aaron(maybe 1 or 2 each)? Baseball isn't like basketball or football, the best player doesn't win it all very often.. Do you think he should have signed with the yankees. would that have impressed you? Not me.

Making posts to run down the best player in BB since barry bonds(tainted) is just silly.
 

winkyduck

TYVM Morgan William!!!
#28
How many world series did Willie mays win, or hank aaron(maybe 1 or 2 each)? Baseball isn't like basketball or football, the best player doesn't win it all very often.. Do you think he should have signed with the yankees. would that have impressed you? Not me.

Making posts to run down the best player in BB since barry bonds(tainted) is just silly.
Maybe not the EE but if he desired to play meaningful games in October signing with the Angels was a dumb move. I know he took the security of the money, and hard to blame him, but then don't tell me how much you want to win. If he wanted to win he could have - and should have - signed elsewhere. He would have gotten the same deal. Maybe better.
 
#29
Maybe not the EE but if he desired to play meaningful games in October signing with the Angels was a dumb move. I know he took the security of the money, and hard to blame him, but then don't tell me how much you want to win. If he wanted to win he could have - and should have - signed elsewhere. He would have gotten the same deal. Maybe better.
1st you imply he signed for the money(security) then you say he didn't, you dont like the guy, we get it.

Has it occurred to you he may love playing baseball, likes his teammates, likes LA and the angels? Winning is not the most important thing in baseball, it just isn't.
 

kane

EOG master
#30
How many world series did Willie mays win, or hank aaron(maybe 1 or 2 each)? Baseball isn't like basketball or football, the best player doesn't win it all very often.. Do you think he should have signed with the yankees. would that have impressed you? Not me.

Making posts to run down the best player in BB since barry bonds(tainted) is just silly.
Spot on Merlin. Bonds and Griffey never won a WS either, it's not Trout's fault the Angels haven't surrounded him with enough talent, and like you say, baseball is different from other sports where one guy can make a huge difference. Kawhi and PG join the Clippers and they immediately become the favorite to win the title, you can put Trout and any other player you want on a mediocre team, and that team still wouldn't be good enough to win a WS. Put Trout on any of the best teams and he's playing meaningful games, again, it's not his fault the Angels haven't surrounded him with enough talent to compete for a championship
 
#32
Spot on Merlin. Bonds and Griffey never won a WS either, it's not Trout's fault the Angels haven't surrounded him with enough talent, and like you say, baseball is different from other sports where one guy can make a huge difference. Kawhi and PG join the Clippers and they immediately become the favorite to win the title, you can put Trout and any other player you want on a mediocre team, and that team still wouldn't be good enough to win a WS. Put Trout on any of the best teams and he's playing meaningful games, again, it's not his fault the Angels haven't surrounded him with enough talent to compete for a championship
The 2002 Angles roster was White guys with no stars, that played right way. Artie Moreno turned the Angels into a diversity team and called us LA, Orange County people do not identify with the team
 

kane

EOG master
#33
The 2002 Angles roster was White guys with no stars, that played right way. Artie Moreno turned the Angels into a diversity team and called us LA, Orange County people do not identify with the team
There's no reason to capitalize the word white, but I guess for racists it's normal
 
#35
The 2002 Angles roster was White guys with no stars, that played right way. Artie Moreno turned the Angels into a diversity team and called us LA, Orange County people do not identify with the team
Angels best pitcher for the 2002 post season was rookie Francisco Rodriguez. He pitched lights during the biggest moments of that run.

The # 2 ranked MLB prospect Jo Adell is black and probably going to be starting in the OF next season.

Your racist garbage is such a stupid and tired act. But I guess it's acceptable because you claim to be a fine "Christian"
 

Heim

EOG Master
#40
I heard Trout hit a homerun yesterday......instinctively without looking I knew it was a solo shot.

You're preaching to the choir about his HOF status, that's a given, however for the money he's getting
he can be a little more clutch.
 
Top