(olympic Sportsbook) Tow Down Grade

#1
BOYS I HAVENT REALLY FOLLOWED THIS DISPUTE WITH OLYMPIC.I DID SEE THAT ROBERTO'S DISPUTE PANEL ONCE AGAIN GOT NO RESPECT WHEN SPIRO TOLD ROBERTO AND HIS JERK OFF PANEL TO GET LOST.HEY ROBERTO THIS DISPUTE PANEL YOU FORMED REALLY HAVE A LOT OF SAY IN THE OFFSHORE INDUSTRY DONT THEY.NOW ROBERTO IS DOWN GRADING OLYMPIC IN HIS FORUM WOW ALL 15 GUYS HE HAS POSTING ARE BOYCOTTING JEEZ THIS IS A REAL BLOW TO SPIRO.LIKE I SAID I DIDNT FOLLOW THE CASE BUT I AM DEFINITLY ANTI ROBERTO AND HIS DISPUTE PANEL AFTER THEY REVIEWED MY CASE I HAD IN AN EARLIER DISPUTE.THESE F-CKING GUYS HAVE NO CREDIBILITY AND ARE A JOKE NOBODY WILL PAY ATTENTION TO ANYTHING THAT IS SAID AT ROBERTO'S FORUM HE IS JUST TRYING TO GET SOMEBODY TO READ HIS SH-T FORUM.

DISPUTE PANEL MY ARSE WHO REALLY GIVES A F-CK WHAT THE 3 STOOGES HAVE TO SAY ABOUT ANY DISPUTE.

I HAVE ONLY USED OLYMPIC ONCE BUT I AM A REGULAR PLAYER AT THERE OTHER SPORTSBOOK BET JAMAICA AND I AM VERY HAPPY.I WOULDNT LET THE 3 STOOGES RUIN A FINE SPORTSBOOKS REPUTATION OFFSHORE.
 
#3
Funny you say that Bean, a lot of people seem to agree with the decision.

Can you do me a favor and tell me why don't you agree with the decision? Do you even know anything about the ruling or you just like to make flaming threads that get you attention.

JJ atleast they fucken try to solve cases and get people paid. Any other person just goes around the forums flams and bitches and does nothing.

Watch sooner or later those Panels will get some respect.
 

daringly

EOG Enthusiast
#4
There is a long thread about it in the RX general forum. The problem with the "ruling" is that it is not concerned about fairness, but tries to resolve the dispute with only written rules on the site, which are not sufficient (at almost any book) when something truly strange happens.

There were two ways Oly could handle it. Treat all bets as action, or cancel the entire group of bets. They cancelled them. The losers got a refund, and TOW's "panel" suggested Oly should pay the bet.

Oly did not agree to be bound by the arbitration - it was purely advisory. If TOW did indeed "downgrade" Oly, it is the worst instance of dick waving I have evern seen.
 
#5
coconutman,

I agree with you.

In the past, I have found that when various WATCHDOG sites leave their egos at home and work together BEHIND the SCENES on behalf of the player, better results occur...

Unfortunately, in such as competitive industry, this usually doesn't happen.

EOG welcomes any other site or poster, no matter how big or how small to work with US to help get gamblers paid, period...

Despite the hard feelings that happened when The General and I left TheRx, it is NOT GOOD for the PLAYERS when we can't even voice our opinions over there, and it is even WORSE when they misrepresent them to others, such as in the BETUS/MYBOOKIE dispute...

It's about time we start worrying more about the PLAYERS and not personal agendas because posters will LEAVE sites when they don't feel their needs are being recognized or handled in the best possible light...

If you don't believe me, just look at where BettorsWorld is today. If this can happen to them, it can happen to anyone, and THERX is no exception ...

THE SHRINK
 
#6
Just goes to show that NO book HAS to pay any bet that is questionable in nature. Or actually any bet for that matter, because it isn't too hard to say something is suspicious.


99% of the time when a smaller book does this they are crucified, because it is Oly then they get away with it.

Also 99% of the guys who are coming to Oly defense are also the first guys to say "if they took the bet they should pay the bet". But once again, because of who the book is they back down. Or out and out flip flop their normal stance.

But more and more most books are selecting when to be "nice" and when to be business saavy. It is one thing to reduce juice, and offer 20% bonuses when 99% of the guys that bet there lose. It is surely another paying bets off that were taken and won.
 
#7
wantitall4moi,

I don't know where you have been lately, but I can direct you to a thread on this forum in case you missed it (hard to imagine you would since you say we are dying)...

The majority of posters on this site SIDED with the PLAYER against OLYMPIC, period...

They were not in the least bit afraid to voice their opinions either, as you suggest . Take a peak...

http://www.eog.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2811

P.S.

Since you gave us your opinion about EOG, let me share with you my observation about your posting.

There was a time when I considered your posts to be amongst the very best on EOG. But ever since you got involved in that famous BOOKMAKER thread on this site, I believe you got your ASS handed to you, too. But, as usual, you refused to even remotely consider the possibility that your thinking and logic was OFF BASE then.

I believe that intelligent people should be able to reconsider even if it is only once in awhile, especially when there were some extremely sharp posts made by others who had much more experience and wisdom about bookmaking than you will ever have..

You have not been the same poster since then, imho...

My 2 cents..

THE SHRINK
 
#8
HEY SHRINK I HAPPEN TO LIKE WANTITALL4MOI AND I THINK YOU ARE JUST TAKING A SHOT AT HIM BECAUSE HE INSULTED YOU YESTERDAY ABOUT YOUR FORUM.SHRINK YOU AND I ARE BUDDIES I THINK YOU SHOULD GET WANT A POSITION ON YOUR BOARD HE IS ONE OF THE FEW GUYS I READ EVERYTHING HE SAYS.

I DO AGREE WITH WANT WE ARE AT THE SPORTSBOOKS MERCY IN ANY DISPUTE BECAUSE THEY ARE HOLDING THE DOUGH.AND I WILL ALSO ADD I DIDNT REALLY PAY MUCH ATTENTION TO THIS CASE IT WAS A WELL KEPT SECRET.MAYBE SOMEBODY COULD EXPLAIN EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE SPIRO CANCELLED A WAGER.
 

pioneer

EOG Dedicated
#9
Shrink,
I'm not sure what part of coconutman's post you agree with...you never said. Do you agree with the TOW panel ruling?
 

The General

Another Day, Another Dollar
#10
I do not need a Panel to deal with disputes, because when I get contacted, I get on the phone and discuss the issues with some of the most respected and honest people I know in this business. Also, these disputes are much better handled behind the scenes so ALL the fukin EGO's do not have the opportunity to seek a stroking in front of everyone. Gawd knows all of the posturing that goes on by some to get little moments of attention.

With that said, there is nothing wrong with sharing opinions on a case in public, for all to see, but the problem is so many posters cannot professionaly handle themselves when others try and debate.
 
#11
daringly said:
There is a long thread about it in the RX general forum. The problem with the "ruling" is that it is not concerned about fairness, but tries to resolve the dispute with only written rules on the site, which are not sufficient (at almost any book) when something truly strange happens.

There were two ways Oly could handle it. Treat all bets as action, or cancel the entire group of bets. They cancelled them. The losers got a refund, and TOW's "panel" suggested Oly should pay the bet.

Oly did not agree to be bound by the arbitration - it was purely advisory. If TOW did indeed "downgrade" Oly, it is the worst instance of dick waving I have evern seen.
The ruling IS concerned with fairness. Everyone has a different notion of fairness. My notion of fairness is that when a bet is booked and when the rules say the bet is a winner, then the bet is a winner...absent invocation of the "bad line rule" and absent insider trading or race fixing. Simply being uncomfortable with how the rule applies to a situation after the fact is not enough. I don't think that creating a "truly strange" exception in itself is a very good idea.

Actually, I think what some are really advocating here is a new exception. We have the "bad line rule" and we know what that refers to. This is not a bad line rule case. Those saying the bet should be voided seem to be advocating a "bad rule rule". Seems like a rather slipperly slope. I wonder if players would also be able to rescind wagers after the fact on account of the "bad rule rule"? I'm guessing not...

If we have a bad rule rule I have at least two past wagers that I'd like to tell my books I'm now invoking the bad rule rule to void. What a great tool this would be for players. And based on this case we could also wait until after the event is complete. How wonderful.

Rules, we don't need no stinkin' rules...at least not bad ones. After all, we have to be fair.
 
#13
PANCHO YOUR WORD MEANS SH-T YOU ALWAYS SIDE WITH THE SPORTSBOOK NO MATTER WHAT SO I DONT PAY ANY ATTENTION TO WHAT YOU SAY.:+signs9-1 WRITTEN RULES SHOULD BE FOLLOWED IF THE SPORTSBOOK HAS A RULE THAT STATES THEY CAN CANCEL A BET THEN FINE BUT IF NOT BULLSH-T.
 
#14
If people are so concerned about Oly not paying the guy, then why are people calling TOW downgrading them agenda driven or "being too big for their britches". If so many agrees with the player, then the downgrade is obviously justified. How can they be considered on thelevel of all the other "great" books out there when they do somethingthose books probably would not do?


Are they a good book, I guess so I do not play there. Will you get paid? Maybe, as long as your bets are not questionable.

Funny you mentioned me and that post as a truning point. Not hard to jump to Spiro and thinking his decsions lately are also some sort of turning point in his thinking.

And as far as that thread goes. I stand by everything I said in it. Look up bookmaking in the dictionary, what you and everyone else were arguing was not bookmaking. Period end or discussion. Was what I described possible? Not likely. But is the very reason why people need to worry if they see the books taking beatings week after week.

That is a dead horse now. But I have assloads of "books" that have folded up because they followed the so called bookmaking practices people were describing. And MONEY DOES NOT make a difference. If it did Charlie would still be in business, and Aces would probably still be number one in everyone's hearts and minds.

Oly made a mistake, but when push came to shove they said screw you, basically what any book can say. Willl the downgrade hurt? Not likely. Will it cost Spiro money? Not likely. Sooner or later it will all be forgotten, the guys will come back, and he still wouldn't have paid the guy. When he sees BoS, Millenium, Royal et al out and out stiffing players and still getting players, it is pretty easy to use a technicality to get out of paying someone.

He can just thank Heaven it wasn't Beantownjim whom he didn't pay. But then again he still wouldn't pay him, but someone else might cover it for him.
 
#15
pioneer said:
Shrink,
I'm not sure what part of coconutman's post you agree with...you never said. Do you agree with the TOW panel ruling?
I AGREE with the fact that PANELS are a good thing for this industry...

THE SHRINK
 
#16
SHRINK YOU ARE CORRECT PANELS ARE GOOD FOR THE INDUSTRY BUT WHAT THE F-CK DO THESE 3 IDIOTS KNOW ABOUT RULES THEY ARE JUST POSTERS OVER AT THE TOW.ALL YOU REALLY NEED IS LAS VEGAS RULES THIS WILL SOLVE EVERYTHING IF VEGAS DOESNT PAY THEN THE OFFSHORE SPORTSBOOKS SHOULDNT PAY.GET THERE OPINIONS NOT THE 3 STOOGES OVER AT TOWS FORUM.IN MY DISPUTE LAS VEGAS NEVER WOULD HAVE ALLOWED IT TO HAPPEN AND I AM SURE IN THIS CASE THEY WOULD HAVE MADE A FAIR JUDGEMENT.

ALL RULES SHOULD BE THE SAME AS LAS VEGAS END OF STORY.F-CK THESE OFFSHORE SPORTSBOOKS RULES PLAY BY ONE SETOF RULES LAS VEGAS RULES:+signs9-1
 
#20
This case is not nearlt as difficult as people are makingit out to be.


The only issue...does the parade lap constitute an OFFICIAL start of the race? Since the guys got points I have to think it does.

But that is the only ground Spiro has to stand on. His stand is that the race did not officially start with enough cars. i.e. the paradelap doesn't count.

The whole tire isssue and all that is simply INFORMATION. People use it everday to place wagers. It has NOTHING to do with paying or not paying the wager. Did the race officially start or not.?

That has yet to be answered concretely.
If I know for a fact that UCLA isn't going to cover a spread should my wager be cancelled after the finish of the game? Even if I make a bet that is exceedingly larger than my normal bet? Kickoff means the game officially started. If UCLA plays their second string, or do not try their hardest, that is of no concern. Is a book going to come out and say all bets on the UCLA/XXX game are cancelled because UCLA didn't try hard enough and we had no chance to win the bet. Not hardly.

So not having 8 cars in the race is secondary if the race OFFICIALLY started. If that was really a concern, then the thing should have been taken down. Or the guys with Michelin tired should have been made a field bet, and all other prices adjusted, with all other previous bets refunded. Then players could choose what they wanted to do.

But as this play stands allone has to answer id this..did the race officially start with that parade lap? If so then Spiro has to pay. Plain and simple. If he doesn't it is no different than the BOS case IMO, actually probably worse since it is hard to say whether or not that guy was taking shots or not.

###EDIT BTW I read that thread you posted a link to. Doesn't look like anything more than some wannabe booky and a couple guys takling ad dollars defending OLy. I surely didn't see al ot of guys coming to the player's defense but the player himself.
 
#22
This is what Spiro did to me.

I re-up with Oly after not playing there for 6 months or so. I send 5 grand and call to get wagering line # and even ask for my account # since I forgot it. For 3-4 days I call and place 5,000 bets with no problems. One night I call and place 5 grand on a college hoops game total. As Im getting the read back I hear some guy screaming in the background. I ask whats going on and the clerk says Im calling the wrong line and to call this other # she gives me. I ask her if the bets in and she says that I have to call this other #. I call up and ask for the same bet as its going off in a couple of minutes. On the read back the line is now 3 points different than the line 1 minute earlier. I obviously dont want it and ask what the hell is going on. I tell her I want the line I just got a minute earlier and was in the middle of a read back. Spiro gets on the line and starts screaming at me saying that Im a wiseguy and trying to put big plays in on the regular wagering line. I calmly tell him that I just re-uped and that was the number I was given. He doesnt belive me and continues accusing me of trying to be sneaky and working for guys and such. I inform him that Ive been placing bets on the regular line for 3-4 days for the same amount without a word. Spiro keeps saying that I was given the high roller line # when I first sighned up and that its my fault and responsibility to use it. Again I explain that I havent bet there for 6 months or more and dont keep record of this sort of thing. I tell him that I even forgot my acct.# and had to ask for that when I reuped. Please listen to the tape Spiro. Shouldnt they have given me this high roller line when I re-uped instead of the regular line?Spiro, why was nothing said to me over the last few days if this was the case? Thats your problem. Your a wiseguy. I tell him to talk to Scotty at Bet Jamaica. Me and Scotty go back to his Bet Royal days and knows that Im just a crazy gambler and not a wiseguy or anything. Spiro is not hearing anything but what he wants to believe. He would not give me the original line and I refused the bet at the current line he was offering that was a complete joke. Of course the bet would have won at either line and I left Oly forever. Like I always say, even the top books will look for a way to screw the big player. I did nothing wrong and he was just trying to throw me off since I was hot. In this latest dispute it doesnt surprise me a bit that Spiro and his shop are stiffing the player and not considering the panel.
 
#23
Royalbasher said:
This is what Spiro did to me.

I re-up with Oly after not playing there for 6 months or so. I send 5 grand and call to get wagering line # and even ask for my account # since I forgot it. For 3-4 days I call and place 5,000 bets with no problems. One night I call and place 5 grand on a college hoops game total. As Im getting the read back I hear some guy screaming in the background. I ask whats going on and the clerk says Im calling the wrong line and to call this other # she gives me. I ask her if the bets in and she says that I have to call this other #. I call up and ask for the same bet as its going off in a couple of minutes. On the read back the line is now 3 points different than the line 1 minute earlier. I obviously dont want it and ask what the hell is going on. I tell her I want the line I just got a minute earlier and was in the middle of a read back. Spiro gets on the line and starts screaming at me saying that Im a wiseguy and trying to put big plays in on the regular wagering line. I calmly tell him that I just re-uped and that was the number I was given. He doesnt belive me and continues accusing me of trying to be sneaky and working for guys and such. I inform him that Ive been placing bets on the regular line for 3-4 days for the same amount without a word. Spiro keeps saying that I was given the high roller line # when I first sighned up and that its my fault and responsibility to use it. Again I explain that I havent bet there for 6 months or more and dont keep record of this sort of thing. I tell him that I even forgot my acct.# and had to ask for that when I reuped. Please listen to the tape Spiro. Shouldnt they have given me this high roller line when I re-uped instead of the regular line?Spiro, why was nothing said to me over the last few days if this was the case? Thats your problem. Your a wiseguy. I tell him to talk to Scotty at Bet Jamaica. Me and Scotty go back to his Bet Royal days and knows that Im just a crazy gambler and not a wiseguy or anything. Spiro is not hearing anything but what he wants to believe. He would not give me the original line and I refused the bet at the current line he was offering that was a complete joke. Of course the bet would have won at either line and I left Oly forever. Like I always say, even the top books will look for a way to screw the big player. I did nothing wrong and he was just trying to throw me off since I was hot. In this latest dispute it doesnt surprise me a bit that Spiro and his shop are stiffing the player and not considering the panel.
Spiro doesnt stiff anyone

this is a dead issue

Oly is top 3 in the WORLD thats unarguable undeniable PERIOD:+signs9-1
 
#24
BettingProphets said:
Spiro doesnt stiff anyone

this is a dead issue

Oly is top 3 in the WORLD thats unarguable undeniable PERIOD:+signs9-1
Yeah, gotta agree with BP here- day in, day out, there is no better than Spiro! Fu## a bunch of Michelins and auto racing! All books that deal stupid ass props on off the board smack deserve this pounding. But as for everyday bookmaking, Spiro is as good as they get. (Except for that stupid baseball deal with CRIS!)
 
#25
Advisory groups are as strong as what is behind them, in Boberto's case, nothing.

Boberto: Spiro, my advisory group says you should pay the player.

Spiro: My advice to you and the player is go pound sand Boberto.

Boberto: Well, if that is your attitude, I am going to lower your sportsbook rating.

Spiro: Trying to contain laughter, please don't do that. Well, give me a chance to reconsider, ok done reconsidering, take a hike, you and your panel.

And the show ends. Because that is all that it was, a show. In a perfect world maybe this type of panel would have some clout. But the offshore betting world is far from perfect. I also sided with the player, fought for him. I guess we all lost. But would I downgrade Olympic over it? No. Probably one of the strangest cases I have ever seen, a fluke. But to me it is water under the bridge. I would continue to kick this already kicked to death horse, but I will kick some lousy tires, Michelens, instead.


Best Wishes...OF :+waving-5


Also, I think Boberto vouching for David1 over Royal set us all back, the players, for some time. I know he took all of the advisor's for a ride, but now the books just invoke the David1 rule. The player is a liar.
 
#26
Betting prophets, thats an awsome reply. So much fact and details. What happened is what happened. Im not saying Oly isnt a great book, but I am saying that even the top books look for ways out of paying up on winning bets. How else can you explain the two examples at hand assuming they are both fact. Spiro nor anyone else in this industry are saints. I have experienced first hand at known terrible books and places with great reputations like Oly.:+signs8-1
 
#27
This advisory panels mean squat as long as the con artist type guys who own some of these sites are behind it. The only way a panel would ever work if the top notch books each had a member on such a panel. I don't trust any of these con artists(no nmaes, but you guys know who I am talking about) and I can assure you 99% of the books don't either. So maybe a guy like the shrink who has been around a long while can get each of these top notch books too appoint a member of there staff too such a panel and that would be a step in the right direction. Otherwise it will never work.

Just me 2 cents:+thumbs-2
 
#28
And David1 appears on cue. Next, we will get the David1 fan club, oops only has one member, David1. Well, how about the people that believe anything David1 has to say, same problem, only him. Seen any wolves lately?


Best Wishes...OF :+waving-5



Yes Drunk, squat is about what they are worth. Maybe diddley squat. But as far as appointing a member of their own place? That would be like foxes guarding the henhouse. In my mind all of these beefs come down to one thing, the book looks at cost vs. damage control. Very much a risk assessment situation. How much business will we lose if we don't pay and tell the advisory groups to F themselves. Large amount? You are in trouble. Small amount, you have a chance. Also depends on the book. Is there a solution? Probably not as long as books are scattered around the globe to avoid the US jurisdiction. And without any laws to abide by, or a court for redress, this is just like doing business with the local bookie. You can't run to the cops and whine to them. Sad, but pretty much the hand we are being dealt.


Best Wishes...OF :+waving-5
 
#29
DRUNK said:
This advisory panels mean squat as long as the con artist type guys who own some of these sites are behind it. The only way a panel would ever work if the top notch books each had a member on such a panel. I don't trust any of these con artists(no nmaes, but you guys know who I am talking about) and I can assure you 99% of the books don't either. So maybe a guy like the shrink who has been around a long while can get each of these top notch books too appoint a member of there staff too such a panel and that would be a step in the right direction. Otherwise it will never work.

Just me 2 cents:+thumbs-2
Interesting statement IMO, especially with the suggestion you offered.
 
#30
OMNIVOROUS FROG said:
And David1 appears on cue. Next, we will get the David1 fan club, oops only has one member, David1. Well, how about the people that believe anything David1 has to say, same problem, only him. Seen any wolves lately?


Best Wishes...OF :+waving-5



Yes Drunk, squat is about what they are worth. Maybe diddley squat. But as far as appointing a member of their own place? That would be like foxes guarding the henhouse. In my mind all of these beefs come down to one thing, the book looks at cost vs. damage control. Very much a risk assessment situation. How much business will we lose if we don't pay and tell the advisory groups to F themselves. Large amount? You are in trouble. Small amount, you have a chance. Also depends on the book. Is there a solution? Probably not as long as books are scattered around the globe to avoid the US jurisdiction. And without any laws to abide by, or a court for redress, this is just like doing business with the local bookie. You can't run to the cops and whine to them. Sad, but pretty much the hand we are being dealt.


Your right Frog...but at least the top notch books have some creditbility...the wathcdogs have less than zero...these guys are worse than bottom feeders IMO...
 
#31
None of these side issues change the fact that Olympic is wrong in this case, and they deserve to be downgraded if they do not pay the bets they accepted and then decided to void AFTER the results were known.
 

Nimue77

EOG Senior Member
#32
Beantown, everydody knows YOU have no credibility. Olympic was wrong in this dispute, the panel (2 of 3) were right. Olympic had no rule that applied to the situation and then waited until after the race finished to cancel the bets. Shame on olympic in this case. IMO, everyone should stop betting Nascar at olympic. I bet olympic would pony up the cash they owe in this case then. FYI, they still havn't changed their rules to address the situation!

BEANTOWNJIM said:
BOYS I HAVENT REALLY FOLLOWED THIS DISPUTE WITH OLYMPIC.I DID SEE THAT ROBERTO'S DISPUTE PANEL ONCE AGAIN GOT NO RESPECT WHEN SPIRO TOLD ROBERTO AND HIS JERK OFF PANEL TO GET LOST.HEY ROBERTO THIS DISPUTE PANEL YOU FORMED REALLY HAVE A LOT OF SAY IN THE OFFSHORE INDUSTRY DONT THEY.NOW ROBERTO IS DOWN GRADING OLYMPIC IN HIS FORUM WOW ALL 15 GUYS HE HAS POSTING ARE BOYCOTTING JEEZ THIS IS A REAL BLOW TO SPIRO.LIKE I SAID I DIDNT FOLLOW THE CASE BUT I AM DEFINITLY ANTI ROBERTO AND HIS DISPUTE PANEL AFTER THEY REVIEWED MY CASE I HAD IN AN EARLIER DISPUTE.THESE F-CKING GUYS HAVE NO CREDIBILITY AND ARE A JOKE NOBODY WILL PAY ATTENTION TO ANYTHING THAT IS SAID AT ROBERTO'S FORUM HE IS JUST TRYING TO GET SOMEBODY TO READ HIS SH-T FORUM.

DISPUTE PANEL MY ARSE WHO REALLY GIVES A F-CK WHAT THE 3 STOOGES HAVE TO SAY ABOUT ANY DISPUTE.

I HAVE ONLY USED OLYMPIC ONCE BUT I AM A REGULAR PLAYER AT THERE OTHER SPORTSBOOK BET JAMAICA AND I AM VERY HAPPY.I WOULDNT LET THE 3 STOOGES RUIN A FINE SPORTSBOOKS REPUTATION OFFSHORE.
 
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