Open letter to John Kelly

ejd_5277

EOG Dedicated
John,

Businesses make errors, but this is extremely fishy. Test account numbers, obviously are rare, and should never be anywhere "close" to real accounts.

Mark me down as a skeptic and I could be wrong, but for BetDSI to go thru all the nonsense they spewed at McIrish and JK is not an accident. They tried to defraud a customer, pure and simple. Finally they realized they couldn't get away with it and relented.

Read this post from our mutual friend and the guy that you and I respect more than anyone else on this board. Then read it again. Bob says he could be wrong, but he's not, and you and I both know it. There is a ZERO POINT ZERO chance that someone at DSI simply transposed a number or two in Pat's account number and it came up as a "test account," because...

Happy for you Patrick but some things don’t add up...From my experience test accounts are labeled Test 1,2,3, and so on....there is no way that an account number matches a test account number...

...test accounts are almost universally labeled as such when set up, with the word "TEST" somewhere in the account number field. This is done precisely to avoid a situation like this.

I do believe you when you say that that's what they told you the first time you spoke with them about the issue. Your bullshit detector probably went into high gear at that point, but with DSI being at the least the sponsor of EOG contests, you were afraid to protest too loudly. That's when you, through no fault of your own, were officially put in the awful spot that you're now in. No matter what you did, SOMEONE was going to wind up pissed off, so you did what many people do when faced with a fork in the road; you tried to take both forks, and wound up taking neither. now EVERYONE is pissed.

Remember, it's not like Pat just submitted the withdrawal request 2 days before his original post He had been trying to get paid for weeks, and was thrown every excuse in the book until they literally ran out of excuses.

What I think we learned here. I don't know any of this to be 100% true, but let me play detective. Tired of reading people with cryptic posts and all these other people who clearly have interests they aren't going to disclose commenting with stuff that doesn't fully speak to the truth. Feel free to call me full of shit, but since no one else is stating these things because they really can't I'll say them:
1. DSI owns majority or total control of EOG.
2. JK isn't even like an employee, he's like an affiliate which makes his spot kind of shitty to be in. He's got zero control because in essence he is like a vendor to them and they could just ignore him, but in this case they couldn't shut this up quickly so they had to engage. Back in the days of mods with Shrink they would have said just erase anything negative and if some poster keeps making noise, put them on post review long enough so that this stuff never gets going. Kind of hard to do when there are multiple forums around though.
3. McIrish when he signed up was suspected of something (beard, shot taker, testing them out for angles, getting intelligence for a competitor...who knows) and they put him into a "test" account. My understanding of these is that they watch them for a short period of time and then decide if they want to move it into a normal account or send you some nasty email or call saying we're taking your money because you violated a policy related to whatever they suspected. Note this is total BS to not tell you, but this is how its done when you have no real regulations to follow.
4. For whatever reason they didn't shift his account into one or the other. I can't see why they would take multiple deposits and action on this, they should make up their minds on if you are good or not pretty quickly. Especially with modern software, they should be able to make up their minds after a handful of plays.
5. DSI like most offshores these days aren't really concerned about bad publicity. No one really makes much from post up players who find them through this type of channel anymore. Almost all of the guys you could get from here or even from SBR probably have played at DSI or considered it in the past. Hundreds of posters could say they are boycotting them and it would not impact their business whatsoever.
6. In the end, some guys in ownership or management with big egos probably were thinking they really don't like McIrish's action and didn't want to pay, but if it really was just $900 what's the worth of dragging your feet on it? Then again, by asking for his ID multiple times they can trace him with, they probably are thinking we got good intel that we will use to our advantage in the future. Welcome to the latest version of the Black Book.

This stuff is going to happen and many will act in shock at the customer service here, but let's be realistic. Credit and PPH is the business model of the offshores. What most of us talk about here in terms of post up is the business model of a decade ago. If you are still a post up customer, you should always consider every penny of your account balance at risk and never leave an amount in books that you'd be pissed off at losing in an instant. Its a risk that will only increase as more states get new reasons to go after the offshores.

This is a far better summary than I could have written, and it's probably closest to the actual truth. We NEED (and deserve) the WHOLE truth though. As others have pointed out, BetDSI's and EOG's reputations are now severely damaged, There's quite a bit of chatter about this on other forums (even other gambling forums not focused on sports betting.) and to be frank, in a lot of it you're basically being seen as a shill for BetDSI. Regardless, t's a really bad look for both DSI and this site.

In my opinion, we need to know AT A MINIMUM:

A.) The true extent of the financial ties between BetDSI and EOG. Is it contest sponsorships only, or does DSI help fund the day-to-day operation of the forum?

B.) Does DSI compensate you personally for your service as site moderator? If so, what metric is said compensation based on? Do you receive any compensation if an EOG member establishes a BetDSI account? If so, are you compensated based on their losses or on their theo? (Obviously NOT asking for specific numbers here.)

C.) What was BetDSI"s ACTUAL reason for attempting to deny payment to Pat? if they just didn't like his action, fine. They can just come out and say so and we'll all move on.

John, pretty much none of us here believe the "official story" as currently presented. Maybe we're all wrong and this is all just a monstrous misunderstanding, but pretty much ALL the available evidence flies in the face of that argument. I'm not accusing you of hiding anything; it's entirely possible that you don't know any more than we do at this point. We need answers though, and fast. If I were you I would be doing whatever i could at this point to facilitate that.
 
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Dell Dude

EOG Master
I am going to be taking a vacation until this controversy subsides. Please direct any inquiries to Big Runner. See you in March where the EOG sports forum will have another fun and free contest by invitation to only the smartest and most sophisticated EOG posters. Good night. I don't love any of you.
 

railbird

EOG Master
These books are all in the banana republic customer service has always been pathetic at ALL, and i mean ALL sportsbooks in Costa Rica, Dominican, or any other spanish speaking shithole, going back 25 years, put me down as a likely error of someone speaking English as a 2nd language, and/or if Mcirish is an alcoholic he may have been too drunk to understand the clerk and it was lost in translation, i say this as Pat seemed beligerent the last 3 days.
 

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
Thanks for your letter, EJD.

I've always appreciated your smart views on all topics.

Here's a quick answer to your three pointed questions:

A.) The true extent of the financial ties between BetDSI and EOG. Is it contest sponsorships only, or does DSI help fund the day-to-day operation of the forum?

BetDSI helps fund the day-to-day operations here.

B.) Does DSI compensate you personally for your service as site moderator? If so, what metric is said compensation based on? Do you receive any compensation if an EOG member establishes a BetDSI account? If so, are you compensated based on their losses or on their theo? (Obviously NOT asking for specific numbers here.)

I receive a flat monthly fee for two tasks: 1) Create content to attract sports betting enthusiasts to EOG and 2) Foster a welcoming community for return visits.

My deal was negotiated with BetDSI shortly after "The Shrink" left the world in April of 2010.

C.) What was BetDSI"s ACTUAL reason for attempting to deny payment to Pat? if they just didn't like his action, fine. They can just come out and say so and we'll all move on.

I believe RAILBIRD's explanation in post #3 -- a clerical error or miscommunication along the way -- was at fault for my failed attempt to intervene.

At one point, it was discovered PATRICK was sending some of his personal information to an e-mail address that was rejecting his submissions.

Cheers, JK
 
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Dell Dude

EOG Master
Dell Dude typically trolls John Kelly and triggers the Liberal contributors of the EOG community. Dell Dude is scheduled to take the EOG Grand Challenge sponsored by Bet DSI in January of the year 2055. It will be a test challenge. Good night.
 
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Dell Dude

EOG Master
EJD is poised to move to 3-0 in the EOG Best Bet competition. He need only post his accurate suspicion of John Kelly in the official thread.
 

ejd_5277

EOG Dedicated
C.) What was BetDSI"s ACTUAL reason for attempting to deny payment to Pat? if they just didn't like his action, fine. They can just come out and say so and we'll all move on.

I believe RAILBIRD's explanation in post #3 -- a clerical error or miscommunication along the way -- was at fault for my failed attempt to intervene.

At one point, it was discovered PATRICK was sending some of his personal information to an e-mail address that was rejecting his submissions.

Cheers, JK

Thank you for the forthright answers on the first two.

You kinda dodged this one though. I didn't ask why your attempt to intervene failed, but rather why DSI dodged paying Pat in the first place.

Just to be clear, you're standing by the "miscommunication/misunderstanding" argument as the ONLY reason that Pat was not paid promptly?
 

Dell Dude

EOG Master
The inquiry sign was posted on EJD. His offending post has been removed and EJD moved to the Iron Maiden until further notice.

 

mr merlin

EOG Master
Thank you for the forthright answers on the first two.

You kinda dodged this one though. I didn't ask why your attempt to intervene failed, but rather why DSI dodged paying Pat in the first place.

Just to be clear, you're standing by the "miscommunication/misunderstanding" argument as the ONLY reason that Pat was not paid promptly?
IMO trying to screw winners on payouts is standard procedure, just imagine all the poor bastards that dont frequent forums and give up?

The whole making people jump through hoops with ridiculous ID requirements to withdraw is evidence of that. make it as difficult as possible and hope they give up.
 

boston massacre

EOG Master
IMO trying to screw winners on payouts is standard procedure, just imagine all the poor bastards that dont frequent forums and give up?

The whole making people jump through hoops with ridiculous ID requirements to withdraw is evidence of that. make it as difficult as possible and hope they give up.



They Wouldn't Do That in a Sportsbook in Las Vegas, if You Walked Up To The Counter With Your Winning Ticket.

That Shit is All Done in The Shadows.

Thousands of Miles Apart From The Player and The Book.

A Lot Different When You're 1 Foot Away From The Counter and The Guy Who is Going To Pay You.
 

FairWarning

Bells Beer Connoisseur
They Wouldn't Do That in a Sportsbook in Las Vegas, if You Walked Up To The Counter With Your Winning Ticket.

That Shit is All Done in The Shadows.

Thousands of Miles Apart From The Player and The Book.

A Lot Different When You're 1 Foot Away From The Counter and The Guy Who is Going To Pay You.
Exactly. The state gaming commission will look into it also. That doesn’t exist in offshore.
 
Exactly. The state gaming commission will look into it also. That doesn’t exist in offshore.

Yep so true. If William Hill wants to show you the door, they still have to cash every single ticket you have won and pay out every penny and treat you in a straightforward manner. Many of us have gone through such a course of action. Plenty of offshores believe when they kick you out they need to finish you off with some verbal threats of violence and economic harm so you never dare try to take a penny of their money again. I had such an experience with the infamous Edgar of SBG back in the day for just knowing people he didn't like.

Sadly many of us still HAVE to use offshores. I'm so glad when I'm in Colorado to know that the worst thing that happens is these books decide I took too much of their free money and limit me or show me the door. But when I'm out on the road or in Mexico, I have to trust these books are going to act civil and fair even though they are in many respects judge, jury and executioner. You'd think if we share these experiences with lawmakers in the states with their heads stuck in the sand they would think gee maybe regulation isn't a bad idea. But of course not, they'd rather tell you that you are the bad person here.
 

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
Thank you for the forthright answers on the first two.

You kinda dodged this one though. I didn't ask why your attempt to intervene failed, but rather why DSI dodged paying Pat in the first place.

Just to be clear, you're standing by the "miscommunication/misunderstanding" argument as the ONLY reason that Pat was not paid promptly?


The miscommunication/misunderstanding argument covers my involvement in the story.

I believe the cat-and-mouse game involving BetDSI's payout to Patrick McIrish had more to do with identification verification than anything else.

I was not involved in the case until Friday afternoon at which point Patrick's fuse was extremely short.
 

Patrick McIrish

OCCams raZOR
Thanks for your letter, EJD.

I've always appreciated your smart views on all topics.

Here's a quick answer to your three pointed questions:

A.) The true extent of the financial ties between BetDSI and EOG. Is it contest sponsorships only, or does DSI help fund the day-to-day operation of the forum?

BetDSI helps fund the day-to-day operations here.

B.) Does DSI compensate you personally for your service as site moderator? If so, what metric is said compensation based on? Do you receive any compensation if an EOG member establishes a BetDSI account? If so, are you compensated based on their losses or on their theo? (Obviously NOT asking for specific numbers here.)

I receive a flat monthly fee for two tasks: 1) Create content to attract sports betting enthusiasts to EOG and 2) Foster a welcoming community for return visits.

My deal was negotiated with BetDSI shortly after "The Shrink" left the world in April of 2010.


It all makes sense now.

Thank you Ed for blowing the top off this story......

It wasn't my imagination after all that John was working against me, it was 2 against 1. DSI and John eating out of the same trough.

No wonder a single private message at another forum got me paid while John pretended to work on the issues for days.

I see now why John is still badgering me about getting paid.

Not happy, not satisfied the right thing was done, obviously upset DSI sent money to a player that he probably thinks he's entitled to.

Disgusting behavior John, you should be ashamed of yourself.
 

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
Happy you got paid, Patrick.

Please quit putting words in my mouth or thoughts in my head.

Sheesh!
 
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Bigrunner

EOG Master
It all makes sense now.

Thank you Ed for blowing the top off this story......

It wasn't my imagination after all that John was working against me, it was 2 against 1. DSI and John eating out of the same trough.

No wonder a single private message at another forum got me paid while John pretended to work on the issues for days.

I see now why John is still badgering me about getting paid.

Not happy, not satisfied the right thing was done, obviously upset DSI sent money to a player that he probably thinks he's entitled to.

Disgusting behavior John, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Says the Railturd Superfan. AKA "The Turdsters".
 

Patrick McIrish

OCCams raZOR
The miscommunication/misunderstanding argument covers my involvement in the story.

I believe the cat-and-mouse game involving BetDSI's payout to Patrick McIrish had more to do with identification verification than anything else.


I'll post this one more time and get out of this filthy fucking thread, feel slimy even talking to JK.

IT WAS NEVER A THING TO WITH IDENTIFICATION!!! Here's 3 reasons why John is lying through his teeth.....

First, I sent it all in with my initial deposit. It was never questioned, it never changed (other than me being a year or two older) for the mandated selfie.

Secondly, when John deleted my thread here and chose to intervene, I resent it all AGAIN to not only DSI but John Kelly himself.....

I did that because I wanted him to have as much info as possible since he pretended to be interested in helping me.

And this was the night before he spoke to the DSI owner, at that point both DSI and JK had all the documents!!

You never came back with ID issues, you had all of it yourself, you tried the "test account" angle to help your boss stiff me AFTER I had sent proper ID (again).

Matter of fact if you read the other thread he's still badgering me "Pat sent me all his personal Friday night" as though I was an idiot for trusting him.

Now I know he works for DSI I get why he keeps laughing about me doing that.

Yes, I did that because I thought you were genuinely going to try and do the right thing, I didn't realize you were an employee the whole time.

Lastly, the reason this was never about ID's, I SENT ONE PRIVATE MESSAGE TO ANOTHER SITE, A NON-DSI EMPLOYEE, AND HE RESOLVED THE WHOLE THING......

And never once asked for, saw, or was told there was ID issues. All that was needed was someone speaking for me that actually wanted to see the right thing done.

So for the next 25 times John tries to use "identification issues" just repost this thing over and over.

The only issue was John is a DSI employee, hid the fact from me, pretended to be neutral the whole time.

That's why he quickly and without question accepted the test account excuse to stiff me. Without the posters here and SBR I would have never gotten a cent.

At least now I know why John Kelly at EOG did nothing to help, he was covering his ass the whole time and helping his boss.
 

Dell Dude

EOG Master
It's either getting easier or harder to parody JK. Easy if I just repeat his posts. Harder to make it more funny by tweaking them.

 
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