Over/Under is 83.5

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
#2
Hmmm...

MLB just sent a memo to all 30 teams about intentionally throwing at a batter.

Managers will be held more accountable in the 2020 MLB season.
 

bomzee

EOG Dedicated
#8
But randomly Plunking a Houston Astro especially Altuve will mean most likely or even automatically that one of your stars gets plunked in return. Beaning Astro's with impunity is not going to happen and No I'm not defending what the Astro's did.
 
#9
I don't think it will reach triple digits, doubt it comes close.

It's the hot story now but with the grind of summer baseball most either forget, calm down, or never cared in the first place.

Even without knowing what is coming not a good idea to put a lot of these guys on base if you're worried about performance metrics (contract$$).

We're one big story away from the next thing in bases...... fade over reactions.
 
#10
I don't think it will reach triple digits, doubt it comes close.

It's the hot story now but with the grind of summer baseball most either forget, calm down, or never cared in the first place.

Even without knowing what is coming not a good idea to put a lot of these guys on base if you're worried about performance metrics (contract$$).

We're one big story away from the next thing in bases...... fade over reactions.
I disagree with the thought that the players will forget, I've heard the reactions from some of them and these guys are fucking pissed, and the fact that Manfred did nothing to punish the Astro players is really pissing them off, had those guys been suspended or fined, maybe it goes away on it's own, but since nothing happened to them, the players will now police themselves. I've seen guys get intentionally hit, and the next day I found out it's because of something that happened 2-3 years ago, players have long memories, and if the commissioner didn't do anything, then the players will take it upon themselves, and it isn't just pitchers hitting Astro players, if I'm on first base and sliding into second to break up a double play, Altuve better get the fuck out of my way since I might come in spikes high. I think this will be a major story all season, and mainly because Manfred is a fucking coward. Take steroids get an 80 game ban, hit your wife, get a suspension, attach buzzers to your chest and have your teammate banging on a can to tell you what pitch is coming, nothing, zip, nada. Baseball has always policed itself and imo will do so to the Astros.
 

jimmythegreek

The opening odds start here
#11
Getting HBp doesn't necessarily mean maliciously not in a malicious way. However each pitch of connection in the proper place sends somewhat of a message, and you can't tell me that lessons here won't be continually learned the hard way in addition to the "oops, that pitch must've slipped" accidential approach.
 
#12
I disagree with the thought that the players will forget, I've heard the reactions from some of them and these guys are fucking pissed, and the fact that Manfred did nothing to punish the Astro players is really pissing them off, had those guys been suspended or fined, maybe it goes away on it's own, but since nothing happened to them, the players will now police themselves. I've seen guys get intentionally hit, and the next day I found out it's because of something that happened 2-3 years ago, players have long memories, and if the commissioner didn't do anything, then the players will take it upon themselves, and it isn't just pitchers hitting Astro players, if I'm on first base and sliding into second to break up a double play, Altuve better get the fuck out of my way since I might come in spikes high. I think this will be a major story all season, and mainly because Manfred is a fucking coward. Take steroids get an 80 game ban, hit your wife, get a suspension, attach buzzers to your chest and have your teammate banging on a can to tell you what pitch is coming, nothing, zip, nada. Baseball has always policed itself and imo will do so to the Astros.

Wow, just seems strange to me but so many of you think it's going to happen maybe I'm missing something........?

Maybe I haven't thought deep enough about it?

Do you think all 29 teams are going to be throwing at them?

You expect it more the first game of the series or each starter in every game of the series will be involved?

Do you think each pitcher will make that decision or you expect managers to be directing their guys to go after them?

Mostly early in the season or even 3rd and 4th time they see the Astros they are still going to be doing it?

Late September, October, teams are still beaning Astros hitters?

I know if I was a pitcher I'm not going to risk ending someone's career in a bid to make sure these guys were penalized enough for what they did.

If I was personally affected, perhaps. If I'm on the Orioles for example am I going to be outraged enough to be headhunting every time we play the Astros?

With the guys using steroids were guys throwing at them for cheating? I don't recall either way.

Were teams going after the Patriots when they kept cheating?

I guess we will see but I'm going to be surprised if a league wide consensus of all 29 teams are going to be headhunting Astos all season.

I could see the Dodgers being bent out of shape, most the other teams I'm going to be surprised they are so upset they take it to this level.

Been wrong before, certainly, I won't be losing my cherry if I'm wrong......


:LOL: :LOL:
 

bomzee

EOG Dedicated
#14
The old unwritten code could come into play here-
So
lets say a person or a team targets and beans an Astro as some sort of a payback for their cheating and that's the unwritten code.-
My guess is that's it-
Logically they aren't gonna repeatedly do it.
Bean an Astro for some sort of payback for their cheating albeit an inadequate one will likely happen .
Bean an Astro a second time?
Your star gets it too.
I don't think so.
 

winkyduck

TYVM Morgan William!!!
#15
Wow, just seems strange to me but so many of you think it's going to happen maybe I'm missing something........?

Maybe I haven't thought deep enough about it?

Do you think all 29 teams are going to be throwing at them?

You expect it more the first game of the series or each starter in every game of the series will be involved?

Do you think each pitcher will make that decision or you expect managers to be directing their guys to go after them?

Mostly early in the season or even 3rd and 4th time they see the Astros they are still going to be doing it?

Late September, October, teams are still beaning Astros hitters?

I know if I was a pitcher I'm not going to risk ending someone's career in a bid to make sure these guys were penalized enough for what they did.

If I was personally affected, perhaps. If I'm on the Orioles for example am I going to be outraged enough to be headhunting every time we play the Astros?

With the guys using steroids were guys throwing at them for cheating? I don't recall either way.

Were teams going after the Patriots when they kept cheating?

I guess we will see but I'm going to be surprised if a league wide consensus of all 29 teams are going to be headhunting Astos all season.

I could see the Dodgers being bent out of shape, most the other teams I'm going to be surprised they are so upset they take it to this level.

Been wrong before, certainly, I won't be losing my cherry if I'm wrong......


:LOL: :LOL:
They only play 18. 14 in the AL and 4 in the NL

Do I think teams will be trying to hit them? YES!

The Patriots comparison is "Apples and oranges" in that if you take a cheap shot it is so easy to see and thus get punished. A pitcher has a weapon in his hands that he can throw 90+ MPH at a hitter and there is nothing the hitter can do ahead of time to stop it from happening.

Last year the Astros got HBP 66 times. Gotta think all of them were not intentional. Now that pitchers WILL be aiming for them just a 25% increase puts the number at 82 - or OVER 80.5

Last season 7 teams had at least 81 HBP:

81: Twins, Dodgers, Nationals
83: Cubs
87: A's
89: Reds (My guess is the Pirates accounted for the largest share of them)
95: Mets

I don't think it is unrealistic to expect the Astros to get plunked 81+ times this season
 
#17
Wow, just seems strange to me but so many of you think it's going to happen maybe I'm missing something........?

Maybe I haven't thought deep enough about it?

Do you think all 29 teams are going to be throwing at them?

You expect it more the first game of the series or each starter in every game of the series will be involved?

Do you think each pitcher will make that decision or you expect managers to be directing their guys to go after them?

Mostly early in the season or even 3rd and 4th time they see the Astros they are still going to be doing it?

Late September, October, teams are still beaning Astros hitters?

I know if I was a pitcher I'm not going to risk ending someone's career in a bid to make sure these guys were penalized enough for what they did.

If I was personally affected, perhaps. If I'm on the Orioles for example am I going to be outraged enough to be headhunting every time we play the Astros?

With the guys using steroids were guys throwing at them for cheating? I don't recall either way.

Were teams going after the Patriots when they kept cheating?

I guess we will see but I'm going to be surprised if a league wide consensus of all 29 teams are going to be headhunting Astos all season.

I could see the Dodgers being bent out of shape, most the other teams I'm going to be surprised they are so upset they take it to this level.

Been wrong before, certainly, I won't be losing my cherry if I'm wrong......


:LOL: :LOL:
There's a lot to digest here, but I'll do my best to explain things the way I see them. I don't know if all 29 other teams throw at them, but I do know players throughout the league are upset, not just guys from the teams that Houston beat in the playoffs. You're a Rays fan, in last year's playoffs the Rays and Astros were tied 2-2 with the fifth and series deciding game played in Houston, Tyler Glasnow gave up 4 runs in the first inning, and the game and series was basically over. You don't think every Rays player is now thinking the were cheated out of possibly advancing in the playoffs? You say if you were personally affected, perhaps you would be more outraged, well my friend you were personally affected, I don't think it was a coincidence that Glasnow got shelled in the first inning. Also, you mention the Orioles, as a team the Astros cheating didn't affect them one bit, but what about personal stats, what if Houston was stealing signs against one of the O's pitchers and he got lit up, which caused him to get sent down, which costs him money, I'm not saying this for sure happened, but there's more to it than just cheating the Dodgers and Yankees. And this is all on the commissioner, I know his hands were tied as far as what kind of punishment he could have levied since the players union is very strong, but for none of the players to receive any type of punishment doesn't make sense and doesn't sit well with other players around the league. This isn't going away anytime soon, in fact it will only get bigger as the season approaches, and one last thing, the majority of Houston players either didn't apologize or the ones that did you can tell it's not from the heart, Carlos Correa said they didn't steal signs in the playoffs, the commissioner said there's evidence to the contrary, so the combination of nothing happening to any of the players, combined with the Astros lack of remorse has other players really pissed. Also, I posted this before, but it isn't just getting hit by pitches, if I'm a shortstop completing a double play, I might low bridge the Astro runner going from first to second, if I'm on first and stealing second, maybe my spikes "accidently" come in a little high, If I'm a pitcher and the Astros have a runner on first, maybe my pickoff attempt "accidently" hits the base runner in the ribs as he's diving back to the base. There are many ways for baseball players to police the game, and I hope the Astros get justice from the players that Manfred didn't give them
 
#20
Tickets slightly on Over at William Hill on Feb 19 tweet, more Money on the Under:

1582308929407.png

https://www.mlive.com/sports/2020/0...r-on-houston-astros-being-hit-by-a-pitch.html

Throwing at batters and hitting them only ends up with Runners On Base. Assuming much emotional anger from 2 teams over 163 games toward one team. Has only happened how many times? Should be very close. Early Under money may have gotten The Best of It.

"William Hill sportsbook has set a line on how many Houston Astros will be hit by a pitch in the 2020 season. The number is at 83.5, a total that’s only been exceeded by nine teams in the past five seasons."
 
#22
The best time to hit someone is if there's a runner on second and you were going to intentionally walk the next batter, just plunk him instead. I wonder how many times the Astros got the intentional walk last year, I'm sure this year it will be much lower given my scenario, why walk him when you can just hit him instead
 
#23
The best time to hit someone is if there's a runner on second and you were going to intentionally walk the next batter, just plunk him instead. I wonder how many times the Astros got the intentional walk last year, I'm sure this year it will be much lower given my scenario, why walk him when you can just hit him instead

don't want to plunk a guy when you were going with an INT walk anyway. Could have a wild pitch. Now you have a man on 3rd
 
#24
Well hit them and then have the pitcher CHARGE the batter's box to beat the shit out of these cheaters.

I'm sure there are a few guys that would love the shot of wiping the smile off of Bregman's smug face.

Or pounding the midget Altuvae.
 
#25
Astros love it if teams take this mindset. If you are focused on revenge or payback while they are focused on winning the game at hand, they are just going to eat everyone up with that. Plus if its obvious what pitchers are doing, the league will start fining guys for doing this. I don't know about you, but if its going to cost me $50k to do something because a teammate is upset, I might not agree with that.

This stuff is very hockey like. In the old days teams wouldn't let a transgression go, they would police themselves. In the modern age where the league fines and suspends for a lot of stuff and the enforcers are gone, they let it go and hope the other team does something dumb which gives them the advantage. Punk asses like Tchachuk and Wilson are universally hated outside of their fan bases, but they do have a point, guys who retaliate and take liberties usually get the penalties and a couple of times their team has won while on the power play thanks to penalties drawn.
 
#28
I disagree with the thought that the players will forget, I've heard the reactions from some of them and these guys are fucking pissed, and the fact that Manfred did nothing to punish the Astro players is really pissing them off, had those guys been suspended or fined, maybe it goes away on it's own, but since nothing happened to them,the players will now police themselves. I've seen guys get intentionally hit, and the next day I found out it's because of something that happened 2-3 years ago, players have long memories, and if the commissioner didn't do anything, then the players will take it upon themselves, and it isn't just pitchers hitting Astro players, if I'm on first base and sliding into second to break up a double play, Altuve better get the fuck out of my way since I might come in spikes high. I think this will be a major story all season, and mainly because Manfred is a fucking coward. Take steroids get an 80 game ban, hit your wife, get a suspension, attach buzzers to your chest and have your teammate banging on a can to tell you what pitch is coming, nothing, zip, nada. Baseball has always policed itself and imo will do so to the Astros.

I don't think historically baseball has policed the game as much as they have policed their own team, their own teammates, their own interests.

You bean one of ours, we bean one of yours. You break up our no-no in the 8th by laying down a bunt, we remind you of the unwritten rules in baseballs.

You up 7 runs and steal a base. You unnecessarily embarrass us after hitting one in the rose bushes,, that sort of stuff.

And that's more likely the things you mention that happened 2 or 3 years ago that you didn't even know about......

A team got payback for something that happened to them or one of theirs, not defending the sport on some widespread level.

If players were this concerned about policing their own game they wouldn't be cheating in the first place.

By far cheating is more wide spread than a "neighborhood watch" of league wide proportions with players and teams policing their own sport to upheld the high moral character of baseball.

A lot of chest beating and so on but in my view most teams are more upset they didn't think of the idea than they are any deep inclinations to defend the integrity of the sport.

We move on.
 
#29
Tickets slightly on Over at William Hill on Feb 19 tweet, more Money on the Under:

View attachment 7460096

Translation for the newer viewers - the squares betting the over, the sharps betting the under.

(just kidding boys) :)

BTW I have no insight on which side is the play.......

My only opinion is that it's as likely to get there through a "natural" path than some wide spread outrage that Houston has soiled the integrity of their sport.

Baseball like most sports is all about getting an edge, legal or otherwise. Lot of hypocrisy in these locker rooms.

BTW I'm not defending the Astros at all, didn't particularly like them BEFORE this happened.......

Only thing I see here though is one team employed a more advanced level of cheating than the others had come up with.
 
#30
Pat, did it bother you that in game 5 of the Rays/Astros series Glasnow gave up 4 runs in the first inning and the series was basically over at that point? I'm not a Rays fan, but if I were I would be out for blood, I would want the Rays to hit the Astros leadoff hitter every game the first time I played them in a series. The Rays have just as much reason to be upset as the Yankees or Dodgers, unless of course the Astros weren't stealing signs in that game, but considering it was a game five, win or go home, and they lit up Glasnow from the start, I have no choice but to think they cheated
 
#31
Translation for the newer viewers - the squares betting the over, the sharps betting the under.

(just kidding boys) :)

BTW I have no insight on which side is the play.......

My only opinion is that it's as likely to get there through a "natural" path than some wide spread outrage that Houston has soiled the integrity of their sport.

Baseball like most sports is all about getting an edge, legal or otherwise. Lot of hypocrisy in these locker rooms.

BTW I'm not defending the Astros at all, didn't particularly like them BEFORE this happened.......

Only thing I see here though is one team employed a more advanced level of cheating than the others had come up with.
The reason why players are so bothered by this is because nothing happened to any of the players who got caught, the coach got fired, the GM got fired, but the players get off without any sort of penalty, no fine, no suspension, nothing, had Manfred come down on the players, I don't think we would be seeing the backlash from the rest of the league, but the fact that the players skated has the rest of baseball upset
 
#32
The reason why players are so bothered by this is because nothing happened to any of the players who got caught, the coach got fired, the GM got fired, but the players get off without any sort of penalty, no fine, no suspension, nothing, had Manfred come down on the players, I don't think we would be seeing the backlash from the rest of the league, but the fact that the players skated has the rest of baseball upset

I agree with all of this. I agree the players are upset, I agree they have every right to be.

Where we differ is how far we think players will go to address the situation......

For the vast majority their effort starts and stops when the mic is removed from the front of their face.

I've just seen no history of professionals in any sport using wide spread on-the-field behaviors to police their sport when/if they are not involved.

BTW wouldn't hurt my feelings if I was wrong, wouldn't mind seeing Altuve eat a few baseballs......

I just don't see it. I see a whole lot of chest beating. A whole lot of talking.

Come next year IMO the vast majority will be taking very little if any action at all to protect the integrity of their sport.
 
#33
The problem here is jealousy.

Had the Astros been caught doing this and finished 8 games back from making the playoffs...... it's a good chuckle among the other teams.

Haha... nice try guys!

The fact they cheated and did so successfully is where the outrage lay among the other players and teams.

The nerve of someone actually trying to cheat and win in this sport??? OMG IT'S UNTHINKABLE!!!

The attempts at cheating isn't a big deal with players, the fact it was successful is where the outrage and talk of retribution comes from.

Just the talk of wide spread anger and hostility among players trying to preserve the integrity of their sport is enough to make me want to puke.
 
#34
There's a lot to digest here, but I'll do my best to explain things the way I see them. I don't know if all 29 other teams throw at them, but I do know players throughout the league are upset, not just guys from the teams that Houston beat in the playoffs. You're a Rays fan, in last year's playoffs the Rays and Astros were tied 2-2 with the fifth and series deciding game played in Houston, Tyler Glasnow gave up 4 runs in the first inning, and the game and series was basically over. You don't think every Rays player is now thinking the were cheated out of possibly advancing in the playoffs? You say if you were personally affected, perhaps you would be more outraged, well my friend you were personally affected, I don't think it was a coincidence that Glasnow got shelled in the first inning. Also, you mention the Orioles, as a team the Astros cheating didn't affect them one bit, but what about personal stats, what if Houston was stealing signs against one of the O's pitchers and he got lit up, which caused him to get sent down, which costs him money, I'm not saying this for sure happened, but there's more to it than just cheating the Dodgers and Yankees. And this is all on the commissioner, I know his hands were tied as far as what kind of punishment he could have levied since the players union is very strong, but for none of the players to receive any type of punishment doesn't make sense and doesn't sit well with other players around the league. This isn't going away anytime soon, in fact it will only get bigger as the season approaches, and one last thing, the majority of Houston players either didn't apologize or the ones that did you can tell it's not from the heart, Carlos Correa said they didn't steal signs in the playoffs, the commissioner said there's evidence to the contrary, so the combination of nothing happening to any of the players, combined with the Astros lack of remorse has other players really pissed. Also, I posted this before, but it isn't just getting hit by pitches, if I'm a shortstop completing a double play, I might low bridge the Astro runner going from first to second, if I'm on first and stealing second, maybe my spikes "accidently" come in a little high, If I'm a pitcher and the Astros have a runner on first, maybe my pickoff attempt "accidently" hits the base runner in the ribs as he's diving back to the base. There are many ways for baseball players to police the game, and I hope the Astros get justice from the players that Manfred didn't give them

BTW very thorough as always......

Even when we don't necessarily agree you are definitely one of my favorite posters to have a "discussion" with.

If I keep my ears open I usually learn a thing or two and there's never any hard feelings the next morning.

Good luck with your action today Kane.
 
#35
The problem here is jealousy.

Had the Astros been caught doing this and finished 8 games back from making the playoffs...... it's a good chuckle among the other teams.

Haha... nice try guys!

The fact they cheated and did so successfully is where the outrage lay among the other players and teams.

The nerve of someone actually trying to cheat and win in this sport??? OMG IT'S UNTHINKABLE!!!

The attempts at cheating isn't a big deal with players, the fact it was successful is where the outrage and talk of retribution comes from.

Just the talk of wide spread anger and hostility among players trying to preserve the integrity of their sport is enough to make me want to puke.
Excellent post. These guys have clearly come to mentally think of two key things separately. They play 162 games so they can get paid 8 figures a season. That's one thing. If you cheat and hit a home off me in the regular season, so what I still get paid. They are competitive and don't want that, but we are all in this to get paid massive amounts so not going to get too crazy about it.

Then there is the I want to win a title. The media and the fans as a result have ingrained this title means everything bullshit. Yeah titles are good, they are a great accomplishment, but when you get the nonsense going on now about guys taking little money to just play on a title contender, or have teams picking up five players after the non-waiver trade deadline, its gone too far. Titles should be won on the field, the excitement and joy they bring to the players and fans is what the sport is about. When players get sideways and say those guys didn't deserve a title and imply they should get it, they completely pass up the reason why you want to win titles. If someone mails you a ring two years later, where's the joy in that?
 

bomzee

EOG Dedicated
#36
Another thought is If Astro's players are going to be somewhat targeted for getting beaned which seams reasonable then what about beaning them in spring training games? Why wait until the season starts? Beaning them now sends the same message yet very likely with less danger or consequences to those doing it.
 

bomzee

EOG Dedicated
#37
Another thought is If Astro's players are going to be somewhat targeted for getting beaned which seams reasonable then what about beaning them in spring training games? Why wait until the season starts? Beaning them now sends the same message yet very likely with less danger or consequences to those doing it.
 
#40
What's the big deal about this since limits are so low for it? Betonline has the limit at 25 or 50 only. I mean whats the max you can bet on this prop throughout all offshore books... 150 at the most?
 
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