The overall effect of sports betting legalization in many states?

Bucky

EOG Dedicated
#1
Do more people have a chance at winning? Are your chances better at sports than anything else, ie. horse racing, black jack, baccarat, poker, casino games, et al>???

The increased competition for the gambling dollar will be felt. Let's assume that sports bets are games of skill. Where it is possible to gain a scientific edge. Is there a bottomless pit of uneducated, unskilled sports bettors to balance out the sharps? Or eventually will the skill level of the populace make it a pretty thin margin for operators.?
 
#2
Sports betting climate was much better in 2005, poker climate also much better in 2005.

Things have gotten increasingly worse every year.
 

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
#3
Legal sports books in Las Vegas stopped pitting player against player in the early 2000's.

Instead, sports books used their power to limit or restrict winners from playing.

Losers welcome, winners barred.

Sad.

It's more of a racket right now than a market.

Except for the few elite offshore sports books which offer generous limits and give everyone a fair shot.
 
#5
I am pretty sure its gonna be worse.

It will suck the squares away from the books who will be none the wiser betting into -115 and will be happy doing so.

And then offshores will have only the sharper ones left, so their profit margins will decline, probably will have to cut down their offerings, so on and so forth
 

Bucky

EOG Dedicated
#6
I forgot to mention the local credit shops. They will be affected as well. Still hard to argue with the convenience of picking up the phone or a laptop/iphone and making the bets.

Do you think it will ever happen that Las Vegas will be able to offer online gaming across state lines or any of these new state sanctioned books to be able to offer that?
 

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
#7
I forgot to mention the local credit shops. They will be affected as well. Still hard to argue with the convenience of picking up the phone or a laptop/iphone and making the bets.

Do you think it will ever happen that Las Vegas will be able to offer online gaming across state lines or any of these new state sanctioned books to be able to offer that?

Highly doubtful on that last point, Bucky.

The reason legalized sports betting or the legalized sale of marijuana spreads so quickly is states don't like to see residents crossing state lines to fill the coffers of a neighboring state.

Greedy state politicians will not want to share their tax revenue with anyone.
 
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#8
Which is why I'm shocked nothing has happened in Michigan. All our neighbors have legalized sports betting with Ohio in the legislative process to legalize it soon. One of Michigan's state rep was going to introduce a bill around Memorial Day, but it has never happened. I've emailed him, never got a reply. Michigan is one of those states where nothing ever gets done. If the Flint water crisis has never been resolved then how will we ever get legalized sports wagering?
 

FairWarning

Bells Beer Connoisseur
#9
Which is why I'm shocked nothing has happened in Michigan. All our neighbors have legalized sports betting with Ohio in the legislative process to legalize it soon. One of Michigan's state rep was going to introduce a bill around Memorial Day, but it has never happened. I've emailed him, never got a reply. Michigan is one of those states where nothing ever gets done. If the Flint water crisis has never been resolved then how will we ever get legalized sports wagering?
It looked so promising, then nothing. Couldn't believe Illinois got it passed before Michigan.
 
#11
The legal books have been better than most people thought they would be. If you look at the threads from the last couple years, the general consensus was that states would be offering -115. The lines seem to at least be competitive across most states. You can get -110 or better almost everywhere
 

O'Royken

EOG Dedicated
#16
California just a few years away....

Indian casinos in California have plans in place to build sportsbooks and will do so.

They are not hiding that fact with their clientele who have asked for sports betting in person.

Indian Casinos have got input from their customer base.

Negative news about sports betting in California will cost Indian Gaming business with their base.

They can't play the deny game anymore.

Sports Betting had to be studied in 2019. Expect a bill to pass in 2020. Question is will they allow Fan Duel and Draft Kings in and online betting app with Indian Gaming.

The online app may be needed if their customer base complain enough about not having the option.
 
#17
too early to tell, there is an exchange opening in New Jersey probably at the end of the year. Many states did not go Online / legal yet. Revisit in 5 years.
 

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
#18
Indian casinos in California have plans in place to build sportsbooks and will do so.

They are not hiding that fact with their clientele who have asked for sports betting in person.

Indian Casinos have got input from their customer base.

Negative news about sports betting in California will cost Indian Gaming business with their base.

They can't play the deny game anymore.

Sports Betting had to be studied in 2019. Expect a bill to pass in 2020. Question is will they allow Fan Duel and Draft Kings in and online betting app with Indian Gaming.

The online app may be needed if their customer base complain enough about not having the option.
Did Indian casinos in California and elsewhere need to wait for the Supreme Court decision to implement sports betting?
 
#19
That is hard to believe. I think I underestimated the incompetence of Michigan politicians.
The handling of the Flint water crisis should have told you all you needed to know...

It's not necessarily a "corrupt" type incompetence like Illinois, but more a lazy type.

Did Indian casinos in California and elsewhere need to wait for the Supreme Court decision to implement sports betting?
Yes.

The US Constitution and all FEDERAL laws still apply in Indian country.
 

Bucky

EOG Dedicated
#20
There seems to be an arrogance among the new states offering sports betting that it will be a cash cow and easy to beat the players.
 

O'Royken

EOG Dedicated
#21
Did Indian casinos in California and elsewhere need to wait for the Supreme Court decision to implement sports betting?
New Mexico didn't for some reason. California Indian Casinos didn't want to put their gaming license at risk so they waited for the Supreme Court decision.

My guess Indian Gaming will push for a New York like bill where the license is granted for brick and mortar only to begin. They have alot of power in the state. Racetracks, OTBs and Poker rooms may be the allowed in exchange to block the Fan Duels and Draft Kings of the world. Hate to see it but Indian gaming will protect their business.
 

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
#28
When William Hill arrived in Nevada in the summer of 2012, they applied for its state business license with the name "William Hill USA."

They knew what they were doing.
 
#30
New Jersey says they have 14 sports books but when you look behind the curtain they really have about 7 books. SB Tech controls about 5 places. MGM controls 2 places. Draftkings is making a move to buy SB Tech. We will see if they dump Kambi and use SB Tech. CG technology will open in NJ probably late august. No word on Wynn yet for NJ.
Bet365 should be opening up late july or sometime in August , same with Unibet . TheScore should be opening in August.
No word where The Superbook (westgate) will open. Will it be NJ or Pa ??? After the smoke settles what is the exchange going to be like at the end of 2019 in NJ ?

Expect the same UK /Australia/Canada/nevada books to be the same books all across the USA. There will be just so many independant odds makers when you start looking at the lines. Not as many independent places as the bettor would hope.
 
#31
Sports betting expansion is about to get messy. New states are seeing big $$$ but pie isn't big enough. Still a few operators desperate enough to give too much upfront to be service providers, but once Illinois/Iowa/Indiana gets going with a bunch of skins the supply will overwhelm the demand. I have been hearing of Illinois casinos and tracks asking for $25m upfront to be sports book providers. This entitles the operator to just 20% of the net profit at best, license holder is still going to get most of the profit with no significant long term risk. This just can't possibly work when you are competing with mobile, the sports teams and eventually DK/FD.

A few states are basically going to underwhelm projections by a lot and future states are not going to be so enthusiastic about the business. Only hope is the number of states gets to be over 30 and we can finally get a national market. This replication of infrastructure in all these states and having every state stupidly act like they need unique regulations is going to be a real challenge for years to come.
 

O'Royken

EOG Dedicated
#32
Sports betting expansion is about to get messy. New states are seeing big $$$ but pie isn't big enough. Still a few operators desperate enough to give too much upfront to be service providers, but once Illinois/Iowa/Indiana gets going with a bunch of skins the supply will overwhelm the demand. I have been hearing of Illinois casinos and tracks asking for $25m upfront to be sports book providers. This entitles the operator to just 20% of the net profit at best, license holder is still going to get most of the profit with no significant long term risk. This just can't possibly work when you are competing with mobile, the sports teams and eventually DK/FD.

A few states are basically going to underwhelm projections by a lot and future states are not going to be so enthusiastic about the business. Only hope is the number of states gets to be over 30 and we can finally get a national market. This replication of infrastructure in all these states and having every state stupidly act like they need unique regulations is going to be a real challenge for years to come.
This is typical. Soon the strong with eat the weak and take over their database through acquisition.
 
#33
credit account / phone if FICO above 800

30% loan rate

coming at a sports book near you

approved right over the phone along with complimentary NFL drinking mug set ( 6 mugs in a set ) ( team of your choice ) must pay P&H
 
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#34
Which is why I'm shocked nothing has happened in Michigan. All our neighbors have legalized sports betting with Ohio in the legislative process to legalize it soon. One of Michigan's state rep was going to introduce a bill around Memorial Day, but it has never happened. I've emailed him, never got a reply. Michigan is one of those states where nothing ever gets done. If the Flint water crisis has never been resolved then how will we ever get legalized sports wagering?
Shouldn’t be a shock when Ohio beats Michigan
 
#35
Rhode Island is doing testing for an app in 2 weeks, and then it will go live soon after that. Definitely by football season....Will bring a sizeable boost to handle in the state.

It’s going to be an IGT app, with William Hill behind it.
 
#36
Rhode Island is doing testing for an app in 2 weeks, and then it will go live soon after that. Definitely by football season....Will bring a sizeable boost to handle in the state.

It’s going to be an IGT app, with William Hill behind it.



how many legal books you have in RI ?
 
#37
I have said it for years. The money just isnt there. I suspect most states will lose money when all is said and done.

Maine 'passed' it but the Gov didnt sign it. Very bad wording and a lot of loopholes and missing shit.

In a state like Maine the volume will be pathetic. SO whats the tax revenue going to be? I ahve said it over and over and over again/ Sports betting is highly over rated and people throwing around how many billions are bet on what sporting event show their ignorance. You cant tax on volume only 'winnings'/holds. So even if books could hold 10% (which isnt likely at all, its probably around 5.5% average in Vegas even with parlay cards). But they run stories about 'making 300 million' last year(2018). Actually this answers all those points...

https://www.usbets.com/nevada-2018-sports-betting-revenue/

So say a state that doesnt know what its doing and is holding 5% what tax revenue on that? Even if they try and tax at 40%? Its around 2 million for every 100 million held. How many salaries is that? And what guy with any business sense at all is going to open a book when they know theyre going ot pay 40% tax? Mush easier to open a pot store. I suspect that every state that has legalized sports betting also legalized weed.

I do know a couple companies including Draftkings have put in for licenses here, Maine law would have also allowed for online betting which I suppose could open it up to some national based guys who would I am sure negotiate tax issues. But its been put on hold until at least next year.
 
#38
I have said it for years. The money just isnt there. I suspect most states will lose money when all is said and done.

Maine 'passed' it but the Gov didnt sign it. Very bad wording and a lot of loopholes and missing shit.

In a state like Maine the volume will be pathetic. SO whats the tax revenue going to be? I ahve said it over and over and over again/ Sports betting is highly over rated and people throwing around how many billions are bet on what sporting event show their ignorance. You cant tax on volume only 'winnings'/holds. So even if books could hold 10% (which isnt likely at all, its probably around 5.5% average in Vegas even with parlay cards). But they run stories about 'making 300 million' last year(2018). Actually this answers all those points...

https://www.usbets.com/nevada-2018-sports-betting-revenue/

So say a state that doesnt know what its doing and is holding 5% what tax revenue on that? Even if they try and tax at 40%? Its around 2 million for every 100 million held. How many salaries is that? And what guy with any business sense at all is going to open a book when they know theyre going ot pay 40% tax? Mush easier to open a pot store. I suspect that every state that has legalized sports betting also legalized weed.

I do know a couple companies including Draftkings have put in for licenses here, Maine law would have also allowed for online betting which I suppose could open it up to some national based guys who would I am sure negotiate tax issues. But its been put on hold until at least next year.


I read that maine will have a lot of sports books. Easy to get a license.
 
#39
how many legal books you have in RI ?
There are two books.. one in Lincoln and one in Tiverton. Both are run by the same casino (twin river) and William hill. The one in Lincoln is about 10 mins from the mass border so it’s overrun by people from Boston.

By the way.. Rhode Island is the only place in the country that allows sports betting for 18+, not 21+
 
#40
I have said it for years. The money just isnt there. I suspect most states will lose money when all is said and done.

Maine 'passed' it but the Gov didnt sign it. Very bad wording and a lot of loopholes and missing shit.

In a state like Maine the volume will be pathetic. SO whats the tax revenue going to be? I ahve said it over and over and over again/ Sports betting is highly over rated and people throwing around how many billions are bet on what sporting event show their ignorance. You cant tax on volume only 'winnings'/holds. So even if books could hold 10% (which isnt likely at all, its probably around 5.5% average in Vegas even with parlay cards). But they run stories about 'making 300 million' last year(2018). Actually this answers all those points...

https://www.usbets.com/nevada-2018-sports-betting-revenue/

So say a state that doesnt know what its doing and is holding 5% what tax revenue on that? Even if they try and tax at 40%? Its around 2 million for every 100 million held. How many salaries is that? And what guy with any business sense at all is going to open a book when they know theyre going ot pay 40% tax? Mush easier to open a pot store. I suspect that every state that has legalized sports betting also legalized weed.

I do know a couple companies including Draftkings have put in for licenses here, Maine law would have also allowed for online betting which I suppose could open it up to some national based guys who would I am sure negotiate tax issues. But its been put on hold until at least next year.

How can you spew off so much bullshit but not realize one of the key points: sports betting brings more people to the casino. At my local casino, the amount of people playing poker, blackjack and slots has increased hugely since the sportsbook open... not to mention, the amount of alcohol they sell has increased from people hanging out at the casino and watching the games. Anything that brings people to the casino is good for the casino. It’s common sense. Same thing in Vegas... all the bars are packed on the weekends at the sportbooks with people buying endless amount of drinks while watching the games they bet in. It all adds up
 
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