These alternative "seasons" are just dumb

WildBill

WildBill

2
Yeah MLB/NBA/NHL would get some initial ratings for having games in empty facilities, but they would quickly fizzle out. Gamblers would be happy, but most fans would get turned off in time. Right now there is a ton of pent up demand for any content so yeah first week of anything would be a bonanza, but if its game 60 of an MLB "season" and they are still playing in an empty park in Scottsdale on a 105 degree night, what's the real appeal there for viewers? If you are a fan of an NHL team that hasn't won a cup in ages, like say the Flyers, what's the joy in seeing your boys win a tough series over the Caps in North Dakota in front of the Zamboni drivers? Imagine if they finally win a Cup and they are skating around an empty fieldhouse keeping some distance and certainly not kissing the Cup. I'm sorry there is just little joy in any of this to me.

These leagues can go ahead and do these things to finish up a training camp and maybe a few weeks worth of regular season action, but these ratings will drop like a rock and the networks will be all over their asses anyways if this is what they substitute for the real playoffs. Real playoffs have die hard fans making noise and going nuts over a big win. Real champions win big games on the road in hostile environments against top teams. Winning the real thing includes a parade and a chance to celebrate with the fans. This shit they are saying they would do is just a sad joke for fans. For bettors it might suffice, but for fans and the "game" they are horrendous ideas.
 
FairWarning

FairWarning

Bells Beer Connoisseur
Some irony here -don't let toronto win, the chances are good something bad happens.

1918 - Toronto Arenas win Stanley Cup.
1919 - Spanish Flu, no cup awarded

1993 - Toronto Blue Jays win World Series
1994 - Players strike

2019 - Toronto Raptors win the NBA Championship
2020 - Covid 19
 
John Kelly

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
I'm more of a gambler than a fan so WILDBILL's thoughts are interesting to read.

I've always thought the poor delusional fan thinks he's a bigger part of a sports organization than he really is.

After all, most sports leagues and teams merely view the fans as a source of revenue.

If you're fanatical about a team, knock yourself out.

Provided, of course, you have the rest of your life in order.

It's sad to see someone identify with a team at the expense of his family, friends, finances, fitness, etc.
 
kane

kane

EOG master
Bill, I get where you're coming from, but as a Celtics fan, if you tell me they'll reach the finals and beat either LA team, they can play the series anywhere from syberia to the moon and I'll take the Championship and be very happy
 
WildBill

WildBill

2
John Kelly said:
I'm more of a gambler than a fan so WILDBILL's thoughts are interesting to read.

I've always thought the poor delusional fan thinks he's a bigger part of a sports organization than he really is.

After all, most sports leagues and teams merely view the fans as a source of revenue.

If you're fanatical about a team, knock yourself out.

Provided, of course, you have the rest of your life in order.

It's sad to see someone identify with a team at the expense of his family, friends, finances, fitness, etc.
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I wouldn't expect anything less from you since you are a horse bettor. Horse bettors are the ultimate I don't care where or who you run, I'll just bet on it people. They might as well call racetracks studios for you, the only racing venues you like are where the races run "predictably" in your view. If horse racing is among your favorites to watch or bet, you wouldn't understand what I'm saying.

Yes the leagues do look at fans as revenue, but without passionate fans you don't have the business they have now. The regular season is for content and revenue to pay the players, to give the networks a showcase for their advertising, and to build billion dollar franchises. However, the playoffs are for the players and the fans, and because of it the ratings are huge and the leagues get the majority of their national TV revenues. And if these fools running the league think they can just run the playoffs wherever without fans and without the structure fans of all levels of dedication have come to expect, they are about to get a very rude awakening. Casual fans aren't going to tune into the sham NBA Finals and everyone is going to be talking about the asterisk that goes with the title. The atmosphere they will have will be about as exciting as a game at the local gym you play in JK.

If you can't see it, just think about dinner at the finest steakhouse you know. Now imagine if all you could do is have that same steak in a styrofoam box and plastic utensils, similar to what is going on now. How good would that experience be? You had the same steak, you had the same sides. I bet you anything you'd be like well it was ok, but far from the best thing ever. I know this, I have had Del Frisco's steak just like that a few times when a boss said I'm treating everyone to Del Friscos if you stick around to work on a project. Yeah the Ribeye was great boss, but shit I might as well just had a good juicy burger because it ain't right eating it with a plastic fork and knife.
 
FairWarning

FairWarning

Bells Beer Connoisseur
John Kelly said:
I'm more of a gambler than a fan so WILDBILL's thoughts are interesting to read.

I've always thought the poor delusional fan thinks he's a bigger part of a sports organization than he really is.

After all, most sports leagues and teams merely view the fans as a source of revenue.

If you're fanatical about a team, knock yourself out.

Provided, of course, you have the rest of your life in order.

It's sad to see someone identify with a team at the expense of his family, friends, finances, fitness, etc.
Click to expand...
Even if you don’t have your life in order, it’s a diversion from problems. It’s really no different than music or even a pet, especially for the elderly.
 
John Kelly

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
FairWarning said:
Even if you don’t have your life in order, it’s a diversion from problems. It’s really no different than music or even a pet, especially for the elderly.
Click to expand...

Understood.

A therapy of sorts.

Of course, I don't have a pet and enjoy only a handful of songs.
 
John Kelly

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
WildBill said:
I wouldn't expect anything less from you since you are a horse bettor. Horse bettors are the ultimate I don't care where or who you run, I'll just bet on it people. They might as well call racetracks studios for you, the only racing venues you like are where the races run "predictably" in your view. If horse racing is among your favorites to watch or bet, you wouldn't understand what I'm saying.

Yes the leagues do look at fans as revenue, but without passionate fans you don't have the business they have now. The regular season is for content and revenue to pay the players, to give the networks a showcase for their advertising, and to build billion dollar franchises. However, the playoffs are for the players and the fans, and because of it the ratings are huge and the leagues get the majority of their national TV revenues. And if these fools running the league think they can just run the playoffs wherever without fans and without the structure fans of all levels of dedication have come to expect, they are about to get a very rude awakening. Casual fans aren't going to tune into the sham NBA Finals and everyone is going to be talking about the asterisk that goes with the title. The atmosphere they will have will be about as exciting as a game at the local gym you play in JK.

If you can't see it, just think about dinner at the finest steakhouse you know. Now imagine if all you could do is have that same steak in a styrofoam box and plastic utensils, similar to what is going on now. How good would that experience be? You had the same steak, you had the same sides. I bet you anything you'd be like well it was ok, but far from the best thing ever. I know this, I have had Del Frisco's steak just like that a few times when a boss said I'm treating everyone to Del Friscos if you stick around to work on a project. Yeah the Ribeye was great boss, but shit I might as well just had a good juicy burger because it ain't right eating it with a plastic fork and knife.
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Hmmm...

You make your arguments so personal, Bill.

I'm a hoopster and a horseplayer though I'm more of an avid hobbyist than an accomplished pro.

Quick check of the 1998-99 and 2011-12 NBA seasons:

Due to lockouts, the league played only 50 and 66 regular-season games in the two shortened seasons.

The Spurs won it all in 1999 and the Heat captured the championship in 2012.

Interestingly, several NBA players (Derrick Rose, Baron Davis and Chris Bosh) were injured during the 2012 NBA playoffs and some analysts blamed the compressed schedule (66 games over 124 days) with fewer off days as a leading reason for the injuries.

Hard to believe, in the '98-99 NBA season, teams played three games in three nights (back-to-back-to-back) on 64 occasions.
 
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V

Valuist

EOG Master
With the markets in flux, there's no time to pay attention to sports betting even if it was available right now. I haven't made a sports wager since Valentine's day. A few small horse wagers to kill off boredom on Saturdays, but that's been it. In bull markets, the markets kind of slowly grind upward. One doesn't necessarily have to follow things every single day. But in a secular bear market, which I believe we are in, its easy to get fooled by the 20% rallies. There will be good trades, both long and short, but really can't have anything on autopilot.

I do agree with Wild Bill's points. Is it even worth it to offer some second hand version of the real thing? Maybe for the betting public but not the general public.
 
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W

Whoson1st

EOG Dedicated
Some folks have absolutely no idea for an old person what having no sports is like. If you have an active family then possibly. For me sports is everything. Yes I bet the games, but very low limits. I miss baseball and the daily "fix" it provides with all the games each day. While this may be a different version, that I may not like as much, I'll take it!!!!!
 
FairWarning

FairWarning

Bells Beer Connoisseur
Whoson1st said:
Some folks have absolutely no idea for an old person what having no sports is like. If you have an active family then possibly. For me sports is everything. Yes I bet the games, but very low limits. I miss baseball and the daily "fix" it provides with all the games each day. While this may be a different version, that I may not like as much, I'll take it!!!!!
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My 84-YO mother watches the cubs every day, so does my 87-YO uncle.
 
I

IWishIWasAPro

EOG Master
I get the jist of WildBills posts.

I watched PSG VS Borrusia Dortmund champions league leg 2 where PSG won 2 to 0 in front of no fans and it was kind of eerie.

"When the twinkle-toed Brazilian superstar Neymar scored, he did not head to the corner or the stands to celebrate. He went to his bench to find a group of people to hug and share the experience with. What would it be worth otherwise? Without sharing it—with his teammates, with the club, with the fans, with the soccer-obsessed world—it's just a kick of the ball."
 
W

Whoson1st

EOG Dedicated
I wonder how far the talks have gone on this. Imagine a computer calling balls and strikes...That both excites and worries me a bit, but I guess it's like a human umpire good pitchers will adjust. That is IF this happens at all.
 
John Kelly

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
IWishIWasAPro said:
I get the jist of WildBills posts.

I watched PSG VS Borrusia Dortmund champions league leg 2 where PSG won 2 to 0 in front of no fans and it was kind of eerie.

"When the twinkle-toed Brazilian superstar Neymar scored, he did not head to the corner or the stands to celebrate. He went to his bench to find a group of people to hug and share the experience with. What would it be worth otherwise? Without sharing it—with his teammates, with the club, with the fans, with the soccer-obsessed world—it's just a kick of the ball."
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I too understand WildBill's post.

But is there a big difference between the Spurs winning the NBA title in 1999 after only 50 regular-season games and their other three NBA championship seasons in 2003, 2005 and 2007 after a full slate of 82 games?

I don't think so.

It's not like the playoff format/tournament was altered.

The Spurs still had to win 15 playoff games to win the title in 1999.

Four titles in nine seasons is often mentioned when talking about San Antonio's case of a dynasty.

Interesting aside: Should we refer to the 1999 NBA season as the 1998-99 NBA season?

After all, the league lost the first three months of the season and played only 61% of its schedule.

Technically, all NBA games originally scheduled in the 1998-99 season were played in 1999.
 
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FairWarning

FairWarning

Bells Beer Connoisseur
If the NBA season ends today, Golden St will have the best chance in the draft lottery. How's that for a get-well package?
 
I

IWishIWasAPro

EOG Master
Ridiculous Fair. A team with Curry, Thompson, Green can add somebody like Anthony Edwards or Wiseman or even Lamelo.

Rest of the NBA can give up. Golden State would be back on the map in a flash.
 
FairWarning

FairWarning

Bells Beer Connoisseur
IWishIWasAPro said:
Ridiculous Fair. A team with Curry, Thompson, Green can add somebody like Anthony Edwards or Wiseman or even Lamelo.

Rest of the NBA can give up. Golden State would be back on the map in a flash.
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While no teams make the playoffs, like a giant do-over.
 
WildBill

WildBill

2
Warriors would be relevant, but I just don't see a title winner in what they have. The guys behind the big 3 just didn't show enough with their extended opportunity. So they will have to rely on the big 3 to be really dominant again and at their advancing ages and now injury concerns I wouldn't get too excited about their chances. It was clear KD was the best player there so without him and without any good depth guys even a lottery pick leaves them behind 4-5 teams. They might find a good fit, but more likely the lottery pick is going to need a season or two to reach full potential and by then you really have to wonder if the Big 3 won't be on the decline.
 
WildBill

WildBill

2
John Kelly said:
I too understand WildBill's post.

But is there a big difference between the Spurs winning the NBA title in 1999 after only 50 regular-season games and their other three NBA championship seasons in 2003, 2005 and 2007 after full slate of 82 games?

I don't think so.

It's not like the playoff tournament was altered.

The 1999 Spurs still had to win 16 games to win the title.

Four titles in nine seasons is often mentioned when talking about San Antonio's case of a dynasty.

Interesting aside: Should we refer to the 1998-99 NBA season?

The league lost the first three months of the season and played only 61% of its schedule.

Technically, all NBA games planned in the 1998-99 season were played in 1999.
Click to expand...

That Spurs team of 1999 has nothing to do with the idea of playing games in an empty gym. They played in front of 40,000+ fans each game, that was a real home court advantage. I don't care if the leagues play exhibition games and even regular season games in the empty gyms to get those formalities out of the way. Those games don't feel that important any longer, its all about positioning for the NBA. The NHL the games mean a little more since there are a handful of teams on the outside who could get in. They should get the chance to at least play some games to have the playoff field seem fair. The other teams, whether almost in for sure and the teams that are eliminated need to get in some games to either prepare for the playoffs or to let their organizations know where certain guys stand in front of a sure to be frozen free agent market. So I have no issues with having some games in a single or dual site setup with no fans. Its just don't mess with the playoffs. Having a short camp, then a couple exhibition games, then some real games with no fans will give the leagues 4-6 more weeks to get further clearance and set up whatever testing and controls they need, not to mention hopefully we'll see the virus counts going down sharply by then. As for the fans, well its up to them. I get it that many may not want to attend. The leagues should be fair in giving refunds to those concerned and be willing to sell playoff tickets to those who want to attend at reasonable prices. I'm certain after maybe the first round there will be plenty of demand for NBA and NHL playoff games, maybe from fans who never before would have gone and who are the ones teams should ideally want in the building instead of the rich people going on corporate tickets.
 
John Kelly

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
The glamor of a morgue, funny.

The glamor of a morgue during a pandemic, funnier and more timely.

My worst stadium experience: Any WNBA game featuring Kids' Camp Day.

Picture 8,000 kids arriving to the game at all different times during the first half and screaming louder during timeouts than during game action.

The kids are more interested in "doing the wave" than watching the subpar play.
 
lastyle7

lastyle7

EOG Veteran
MLB wanting to play 7 inning doubleheaders in Arizona to implement a 162 game season.. The summer heat in Arizona is unbearable.
 
kane

kane

EOG master
WildBill said:
Warriors would be relevant, but I just don't see a title winner in what they have. The guys behind the big 3 just didn't show enough with their extended opportunity. So they will have to rely on the big 3 to be really dominant again and at their advancing ages and now injury concerns I wouldn't get too excited about their chances. It was clear KD was the best player there so without him and without any good depth guys even a lottery pick leaves them behind 4-5 teams. They might find a good fit, but more likely the lottery pick is going to need a season or two to reach full potential and by then you really have to wonder if the Big 3 won't be on the decline.
Click to expand...

If GS is fortunate to win the draft lottery and get the first pick, they could trade that pick for an established player who could help them win now, and remember, they won a championship with Harrison Barnes before KD got there. If Curry, Klay, Draymond, and Barnes could win a title, then there's no reason why those three, plus whoever they get in a trade couldn't at least contend for a title, when healthy they still have the best backcourt in the league, I would still put them behind the LA teams, but wouldn't count them out, and remember LeBron is anoither year older
 
WildBill

WildBill

2
kane said:
If GS is fortunate to win the draft lottery and get the first pick, they could trade that pick for an established player who could help them win now, and remember, they won a championship with Harrison Barnes before KD got there. If Curry, Klay, Draymond, and Barnes could win a title, then there's no reason why those three, plus whoever they get in a trade couldn't at least contend for a title, when healthy they still have the best backcourt in the league, I would still put them behind the LA teams, but wouldn't count them out, and remember LeBron is anoither year older
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That was a young and hungry team playing a depleted league. That was the year everyone got hurt just before they played them in the playoffs. And Iguodala really was the key piece that won the title for them. It worked out well for them getting the experience and became the draw that eventually got them KD. Unless they find their Iguodala type piece I think they will be fighting it out for 4th or 5th in the West because they won't be as hungry and their defense will be mediocre at best.
 
kane

kane

EOG master
WildBill said:
That was a young and hungry team playing a depleted league. That was the year everyone got hurt just before they played them in the playoffs. And Iguodala really was the key piece that won the title for them. It worked out well for them getting the experience and became the draw that eventually got them KD. Unless they find their Iguodala type piece I think they will be fighting it out for 4th or 5th in the West because they won't be as hungry and their defense will be mediocre at best.
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First off, if they get a top 2 or 3 pick in the draft, I'm sure they could flip that pick for "an Iggy type piece". Also, it's not like these guys are on their last legs, Curry is 32, Klay and Dray are both 30, these guys have several good years left, and as far as you thinking they won't be hungry, considering what the team has gone through this year, they might come out next year with a chip on their shoulder, and Klay and Dray are both elite defenders, not good defenders, but elite. Look, I'm not saying their the chalk to win it all, far from it, but a completely healthy Warrior team might be the third seed in the West next year, no reason why they couldn't compete for a championship, and again this is assuming they are completely healthy, I think writing them off is a mistake
 
kane

kane

EOG master
FairWarning said:
If the NBA season ends today, Golden St will have the best chance in the draft lottery. How's that for a get-well package?
Click to expand...

Reminds me of the year when the Spurs lost David Robinson for the season with an injury, they sucked and got the first pick in the draft which was Tim Duncan, the rest as they say is history
 
John Kelly

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
kane said:
Reminds me of the year when the Spurs lost David Robinson for the season with an injury, they sucked and got the first pick in the draft which was Tim Duncan, the rest as they say is history
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Same season general manager Gregg Popovich fired head coach ??? and assumed the head coaching role himself.

"Pop" was losing games on purpose (tanking) to guarantee the acquisition of Tim Duncan.

The ping pong balls came to the NBA Draft shortly thereafter.

I'll search for the name of the former Spurs head coach shortly.
 
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kane

kane

EOG master
The Celtics had the worst record and had the best odds of winning the lottery that year, the reason Rick Pitino took the Celtics job was he figured Boston would get the first pick and take Duncan, obviously they didn't get the first pick, Pitino was gone soon after, Duncan went on to become of the greats of all time and win multiple championships, I can't help but think of how many more Banners the C's would have if not for those motherfucking ping pong balls
 
C

ComptrBob

EOG Master
It was a weird lottery. The 1996-7 Vancouver Grizzles had the worst record, but because they had just had an expansion draft they were relegated to the fourth pick. Celtics with the next worst record, (27.51% chance) fell to the 2nd pick when the Spurs (21.6%) got the first. Boston also had the 6th pick, at 8.8% chance.
 
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