Antigua gets F ucked.....
Stay tuned for details...
THE SHRINK
Stay tuned for details...
THE SHRINK
BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
- Thread starter THE SHRINK
- Start date
Almost Allright
GO Bucks!!!
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
aaaw shit....but no suprise :+whipping :+whipping :+whipping
aaaw shit....but no suprise :+whipping :+whipping :+whipping
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
GENEVA (AP) - The United States faces US$21 million (?14.6 million) in annual trade sanctions as a result of its online betting ban, the World Trade Organization said Friday in awarding Antigua and Barbuda the right to target U.S. services, copyrights and trademarks.
<!--APIMG-->
The decision is a setback for the Caribbean island nation, which sought the right to impose US$3.4 billion (?2.4 billion) in retaliatory measures against U.S. commercial services and intellectual property. Washington acknowledged its Internet gambling restrictions were ruled illegal by the WTO, but argued that Antigua should only be compensated for about US$500,000 (?350,000) in annual lost revenue. <!-- COM9_20071221153945630.txt -->
<b>The tiny Caribbean nation can exercise the sanctions in intellectual property, such as films and music, for instance by lifting copyright protection, as well as in services, which includes sectors such as banking and telecommunications as well as gambling, he said.</b>
Watch out baby as I am certain this ain't over!!!
GENEVA (AP) - The United States faces US$21 million (?14.6 million) in annual trade sanctions as a result of its online betting ban, the World Trade Organization said Friday in awarding Antigua and Barbuda the right to target U.S. services, copyrights and trademarks.
<!--APIMG-->
The decision is a setback for the Caribbean island nation, which sought the right to impose US$3.4 billion (?2.4 billion) in retaliatory measures against U.S. commercial services and intellectual property. Washington acknowledged its Internet gambling restrictions were ruled illegal by the WTO, but argued that Antigua should only be compensated for about US$500,000 (?350,000) in annual lost revenue. <!-- COM9_20071221153945630.txt -->
<b>The tiny Caribbean nation can exercise the sanctions in intellectual property, such as films and music, for instance by lifting copyright protection, as well as in services, which includes sectors such as banking and telecommunications as well as gambling, he said.</b>
Watch out baby as I am certain this ain't over!!!
michael777
EOG Dedicated
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
:+angry1-5
:+angry1-5
TomBrady#1
EOG Dedicated
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
No surprise here at all. sHRINK, HOW NAIVE ARE YOU? US is a bunch of bullies, arrogant to the max and listens to noone. What did you expect? Just my two cents. Thanks.
No surprise here at all. sHRINK, HOW NAIVE ARE YOU? US is a bunch of bullies, arrogant to the max and listens to noone. What did you expect? Just my two cents. Thanks.
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
TomBrady,
The US didn't decide the penalties...
It was the WTO who did...
TomBrady,
The US didn't decide the penalties...
It was the WTO who did...
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
They didn't even get back their legal fee investment. Fives years for this shitty award..................The DOJ is laughing their ass off this morning
They didn't even get back their legal fee investment. Fives years for this shitty award..................The DOJ is laughing their ass off this morning
TomBrady#1
EOG Dedicated
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
SO what does that mean? US has not bent one ioda in this process. I have NOT followed this story but why should we? What could possibly happen to help our position on this topic? We have gotten destroyed. If the US wants something they get it. I could care less about penalties.
SO what does that mean? US has not bent one ioda in this process. I have NOT followed this story but why should we? What could possibly happen to help our position on this topic? We have gotten destroyed. If the US wants something they get it. I could care less about penalties.
TomBrady#1
EOG Dedicated
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
And this is a surprise? All they do is WHATEVER THEY WANT.
And this is a surprise? All they do is WHATEVER THEY WANT.
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
It's ok......if I was Antigua now I would use that 21 million to the limit. I would offer a download of brand new movies that normally sell in stores for 20 to 25 dollars online at only 25 cents a pop.
It's ok......if I was Antigua now I would use that 21 million to the limit. I would offer a download of brand new movies that normally sell in stores for 20 to 25 dollars online at only 25 cents a pop.
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
and.....who is really going to count what they sell.......the WTO has granted Antigua a permit to abuse the US copyright laws up to 21 million dollars. If the US suspects they are selling more then let the US take Antigua to a dispute settlement which would take 5 years to settle.
and.....who is really going to count what they sell.......the WTO has granted Antigua a permit to abuse the US copyright laws up to 21 million dollars. If the US suspects they are selling more then let the US take Antigua to a dispute settlement which would take 5 years to settle.
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
That's EXACTLY what WILL happen!!!
I can't wait to get 90% off on many products...
arty
That's EXACTLY what WILL happen!!!
I can't wait to get 90% off on many products...
arty
RealSlimShady
EOG Dedicated
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
Why should anyone be surprised at this result? As long as these books are located in small countries with little clout, the US will push them around! Now if someone would open a book out of China, it would be a different story.....and if such a ruling went against a book in China and they can duplicate copyrighted material and sell it as retaliation, the end result could be far different.
Why should anyone be surprised at this result? As long as these books are located in small countries with little clout, the US will push them around! Now if someone would open a book out of China, it would be a different story.....and if such a ruling went against a book in China and they can duplicate copyrighted material and sell it as retaliation, the end result could be far different.
gopherbob
EOG Dedicated
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
how do they determine the 21 million ? retail value ?
how do they determine the 21 million ? retail value ?
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
I think it should be determined the way the fine was...
perhaps "pimp" value would be fine...
I think it should be determined the way the fine was...
perhaps "pimp" value would be fine...
munson15
I want winners...
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
Between the EU agreement and this, our legal avenues seem to have been cut off completely. The only hope at this point is congressional action to reverse the 2006 law, which is another longshot. A very bad week for online gambling, indeed.
Between the EU agreement and this, our legal avenues seem to have been cut off completely. The only hope at this point is congressional action to reverse the 2006 law, which is another longshot. A very bad week for online gambling, indeed.
NickPappagiorgio
EOG Dedicated
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
It seems we have gone through this long enough. I can see things changing only when a new administration comes into place, which will be in a little over a year. While we lost some very good offshore books, we all seem to still be able to get action with some good books. Maybe Im just being a simpleton.
It seems we have gone through this long enough. I can see things changing only when a new administration comes into place, which will be in a little over a year. While we lost some very good offshore books, we all seem to still be able to get action with some good books. Maybe Im just being a simpleton.
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
I think Antigua lost because they're Antigua.
Four stoplights and a Carlos 'N Charlies.
I think Antigua lost because they're Antigua.
Four stoplights and a Carlos 'N Charlies.
munson15
I want winners...
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
I agree we can still get action, Nick, but that law killed off Pinnacle and Neteller, making all our lives infinitely more difficult and less prosperous. I also agree with your first statement. These agreements/rulings sound the death knell for any progress on the offshore gaming front until at least 2009, if then.
NickPappagiorgio
EOG Dedicated
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
Yes Munson, our lives are more difficult, and for those players that arent just the recreational type like myself, Im sure its much more difficult. But I still remember the days we had to send overnight FedEx money orders and just used the phone. We have taken a giant step back, but this law has not curbed offshore gambling one iota.
Yes Munson, our lives are more difficult, and for those players that arent just the recreational type like myself, Im sure its much more difficult. But I still remember the days we had to send overnight FedEx money orders and just used the phone. We have taken a giant step back, but this law has not curbed offshore gambling one iota.
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
With all of the shitty stuff that Bush has done during his term in office he will go down in history as pulling off the biggest coup in the world trade market. He got rid of all of the foreign competitors, changed the US committment to the WTO treaty without just cause, and did all of that for pocket change. Furthermore, he now laid the groundwork for a future administration to rework the Wire Act law and return the issue of gambling to the states, and to domestically control Internet gambling by domestic companies for eternity. He sure as hell rolled the dice here in believing that the WTO compensation payoff to Antigua would come up short. This President is a gambler and should open an account online ASAP.
With all of the shitty stuff that Bush has done during his term in office he will go down in history as pulling off the biggest coup in the world trade market. He got rid of all of the foreign competitors, changed the US committment to the WTO treaty without just cause, and did all of that for pocket change. Furthermore, he now laid the groundwork for a future administration to rework the Wire Act law and return the issue of gambling to the states, and to domestically control Internet gambling by domestic companies for eternity. He sure as hell rolled the dice here in believing that the WTO compensation payoff to Antigua would come up short. This President is a gambler and should open an account online ASAP.
munson15
I want winners...
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
I am frustrated that in each of these cases, the potential was there to legitimize what we do, and make it easier at the same time. Now it appears that won't happen anytime soon, if ever.
Agreed, Nick, I am only into this since April 2002. The first money move I made was WU. If CC's hadn't taken my deposits shortly thereafter, I don't think I'd still be playing. I remember thinking it was absurd to have to pay $ to send money to play at a sportsbook.
I am frustrated that in each of these cases, the potential was there to legitimize what we do, and make it easier at the same time. Now it appears that won't happen anytime soon, if ever.
Woody
EOG Veteran
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
US Trade Representative (USTR) spokesman Sean Spicer advised Antigua to delay any action after an arbitrator for the Geneva-based World Trade Organization allowed the Caribbean nation to impose sanctions worth 21 million dollars a year.
Spicer said Washington has initiated a formal process at the WTO to revise its commitments and is in talks with Antigua and six other WTO members that have claimed to be affected.
"We would expect that Antigua would not suspend its WTO commitments to the United States while that process is underway.," Spicer said.
"Once the process of clarifying the US schedule of commitments is complete, any issues in our bilateral dispute with Antigua will be moot, and there will no longer be any basis for suspending WTO commitments."
AFP: US urges Antigua to delay WTO sanctions on Internet gambling
Translation: We're going back to the WTO to screw you out of the $21 million.
If I was Antigua I'd get selling those 25 cent movies as soon as possible.
US Trade Representative (USTR) spokesman Sean Spicer advised Antigua to delay any action after an arbitrator for the Geneva-based World Trade Organization allowed the Caribbean nation to impose sanctions worth 21 million dollars a year.
Spicer said Washington has initiated a formal process at the WTO to revise its commitments and is in talks with Antigua and six other WTO members that have claimed to be affected.
"We would expect that Antigua would not suspend its WTO commitments to the United States while that process is underway.," Spicer said.
"Once the process of clarifying the US schedule of commitments is complete, any issues in our bilateral dispute with Antigua will be moot, and there will no longer be any basis for suspending WTO commitments."
AFP: US urges Antigua to delay WTO sanctions on Internet gambling
Translation: We're going back to the WTO to screw you out of the $21 million.
If I was Antigua I'd get selling those 25 cent movies as soon as possible.
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
I think that most who have posted in this thread underestimate the reaction that will be coming from the software, music and film industries. Once Antigua begins selling copies of Microsoft Office for $150.00, you can be sure that the US Trade Represenatative will be on the hotseat. $21 million may seem like a drop in the bucket but for every CD sold under these sanctions, hundreds more will be illegally copied and distributed creating a snowball effect.
I think that most who have posted in this thread underestimate the reaction that will be coming from the software, music and film industries. Once Antigua begins selling copies of Microsoft Office for $150.00, you can be sure that the US Trade Represenatative will be on the hotseat. $21 million may seem like a drop in the bucket but for every CD sold under these sanctions, hundreds more will be illegally copied and distributed creating a snowball effect.
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
So JC or somebody please tell me......
This award was for winning the dispute and is reviewed yearly. There is still a compensation issue to resolve with Antigua as well as the other outstanding countries such as China, Costa Rica etc. This means that if Antigua NEVER signs off on a compensation deal with the US to withdraw from the gambling sector of GATS the US will continue to be violating their treaty requirements?
So I guess then it will go to arbitration once more for the compensation issue? Is that binding? And what would Antigua be expecting in compensation for withrawal if they only got 21 million for the whole dispute?
I see Antigua now settling with the US down the road to save some face, as if they proceed to piracy for a humble sum of only 21 million (that's half a week handle for Pinnacle) the US will NEVER forgive them, nor will the rest of the participating members, and Antigua will be held in contempt forever. Tourists will also avoid traveling there because they aren't on the best of terms with the US. The US has already stated that Antigua should hold off on any piracy for now.....which would close the negotiating doors forever.
So JC or somebody please tell me......
This award was for winning the dispute and is reviewed yearly. There is still a compensation issue to resolve with Antigua as well as the other outstanding countries such as China, Costa Rica etc. This means that if Antigua NEVER signs off on a compensation deal with the US to withdraw from the gambling sector of GATS the US will continue to be violating their treaty requirements?
So I guess then it will go to arbitration once more for the compensation issue? Is that binding? And what would Antigua be expecting in compensation for withrawal if they only got 21 million for the whole dispute?
I see Antigua now settling with the US down the road to save some face, as if they proceed to piracy for a humble sum of only 21 million (that's half a week handle for Pinnacle) the US will NEVER forgive them, nor will the rest of the participating members, and Antigua will be held in contempt forever. Tourists will also avoid traveling there because they aren't on the best of terms with the US. The US has already stated that Antigua should hold off on any piracy for now.....which would close the negotiating doors forever.
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
JC is not by a computor but he gave me the green light to post this..
The original ruling certainly did cover all gaming, including sports. READ the Appellate Body Report.
Just because this panel decided to base the sanction amount on what Antigua is losing in horse racing revenue does not change the import of the original Appellate Body Decision.
There is a dissenting opinion (Around page 25) in this report which blasts the other two panelists for not following the Appellate Body Report to calculate the damages.
The original Panel Report is clear, the Appellate Body Report is cear, The Compliance Panel Report is clear. Only this panel, for purposes of damage calculations has entertained this horse racing scenario. This panel is ONLY empowered to calculate damage amounts and type of sanctions.
If the US were to allow foreign horse racing access, Antigua would be able to go to a WTO Compliance Panel and argue that the US was still not in compliance, based on the actual Appellate Body Report. The last Compliance Panel Report made it crystal clear this was not just about horse racing.
JC is not by a computor but he gave me the green light to post this..
The original ruling certainly did cover all gaming, including sports. READ the Appellate Body Report.
Just because this panel decided to base the sanction amount on what Antigua is losing in horse racing revenue does not change the import of the original Appellate Body Decision.
There is a dissenting opinion (Around page 25) in this report which blasts the other two panelists for not following the Appellate Body Report to calculate the damages.
The original Panel Report is clear, the Appellate Body Report is cear, The Compliance Panel Report is clear. Only this panel, for purposes of damage calculations has entertained this horse racing scenario. This panel is ONLY empowered to calculate damage amounts and type of sanctions.
If the US were to allow foreign horse racing access, Antigua would be able to go to a WTO Compliance Panel and argue that the US was still not in compliance, based on the actual Appellate Body Report. The last Compliance Panel Report made it crystal clear this was not just about horse racing.
wrigley
2
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
I see AP has updated the story and neither side can appeal the decision, so hopefully I can start to buy cheap software from Antigua soon.
WTO Clears $21M in Sanctions Vs. US
By BRADLEY S. KLAPPER
December 21, 2007
GENEVA (AP) ? The United States faces a token $21 million in annual trade sanctions as a result of its online betting ban, the World Trade Organization said Friday in awarding Antigua and Barbuda the right to target U.S. services, copyrights and trademarks.
The decision is a setback for the Caribbean island nation, which sought the right to impose $3.4 billion in retaliatory measures against U.S. commercial services and intellectual property.
Washington acknowledged its Internet gambling restrictions were ruled illegal by the WTO, but argued that Antigua should only be compensated for about $500,000 for lost annual revenue.
The case has drawn the attention of a number of U.S. industries, partly because of the ways Antigua has proposed retaliating against the much larger U.S. economy. Washington's attempt to escape its legal loss by proposing a revision of the WTO's key treaty on trade in services has also fueled interest.
The office of the U.S. Trade Representative noted that Antigua was seeking sanctions worth more than three times the size of its entire economy.
"Antigua's claim was patently excessive," it said in a statement. "The United States is pleased that the figure arrived at by the arbitrator is over 100 times lower than Antigua's claim."
However, the U.S. said it was concerned that Antigua could now violate some American intellectual property rights ? which could range from CDs and DVDs to computer software, industrial designs and designer clothing.
The ruling could "establish a harmful precedent for a WTO member to affirmatively authorize what would otherwise be considered acts of piracy, counterfeiting or other forms of ... infringement," the U.S. said.
The U.S. and Antigua cannot appeal Friday's decision.
Realistically, it would have been very difficult for a country the size of Antigua's to implement hundreds of millions of dollars worth of trade sanctions on the U.S. without harming its own economy and the welfare of its citizens. Ecuador was awarded similar retaliation rights in a bananas dispute with the European Union in 2000, but failed to come up with an effective way to introduce countermeasures.
The WTO arbitration panel said it had to adopt its own approach to come up with a fair retaliation figure in view of the wide difference in how the U.S. and Antigua estimated the economic effect of the gambling ban.
"In doing so, we feel we are on shaky grounds," the panel said in an 88-page decision.
Washington stopped U.S. banks and credit card companies last year from processing payments to online gambling businesses outside the country. The decision closed off the most lucrative region in a growing market worth about $15.5 billion last year. About half of the world's online gamblers are based in the U.S.
The arrest in 2006 of two British Internet gambling executives while traveling through the United States also highlighted the U.S. government's escalation of its battle against the industry.
The WTO, however, upheld in March previous rulings striking down the U.S ban.
The trade body found that the U.S. had the right to prevent offshore betting as a means of protecting public order and public morals. But it said Washington was violating trade law by targeting online gambling without equal application of the rules to American operators offering remote betting on horse and dog racing.
Antigua, the smallest country to successfully litigate a case in the WTO's 12-year-history, had hoped the ruling would lead the U.S. to revoke the restrictions.
The former British colony of about 80,000 people had been promoting electronic commerce as a way to end the country's reliance on tourism, which was hurt by a series of hurricanes in the late 1990s. There are 32 licensed online casinos in Antigua, employing 1,000 people and generating a yearly revenue of around $130 million. Seven years ago, its casinos had an annual income closer to $1 billion.
But Washington responded to its legal defeat by announcing it would take the unprecedented step of revising the conditions under which it signed the WTO's 1994 General Agreement on Trade in Services, or GATS. That allowed a number of countries to seek compensation under a separate process.
The U.S. has since agreed on deals with the 27-nation European Union, Canada and Japan to change the treaty ? but has failed to do so with Antigua, Costa Rica, India and Macau.
Until it gains the approval of all 151 members of the WTO, the U.S. online betting ban is illegal under international trade rules. As a result, Antigua will have the right to penalize U.S. services and intellectual property until the U.S. government either permits Americans to gamble over foreign-based sites or eliminates exceptions for off-track betting on horses, including over the Internet.
British gambling companies ? which bankrolled Antigua's efforts and heavily lobbied Brussels for tough action ? were disappointed earlier this week when the EU announced that it had received some minor U.S. trade concessions in exchange for accepting the U.S.-proposed revision to the GATS.
The deal fell far short of the $100 billion in new commercial opportunities the Internet gaming sites claimed the United States owed.
I see AP has updated the story and neither side can appeal the decision, so hopefully I can start to buy cheap software from Antigua soon.
WTO Clears $21M in Sanctions Vs. US
By BRADLEY S. KLAPPER
December 21, 2007
GENEVA (AP) ? The United States faces a token $21 million in annual trade sanctions as a result of its online betting ban, the World Trade Organization said Friday in awarding Antigua and Barbuda the right to target U.S. services, copyrights and trademarks.
The decision is a setback for the Caribbean island nation, which sought the right to impose $3.4 billion in retaliatory measures against U.S. commercial services and intellectual property.
Washington acknowledged its Internet gambling restrictions were ruled illegal by the WTO, but argued that Antigua should only be compensated for about $500,000 for lost annual revenue.
The case has drawn the attention of a number of U.S. industries, partly because of the ways Antigua has proposed retaliating against the much larger U.S. economy. Washington's attempt to escape its legal loss by proposing a revision of the WTO's key treaty on trade in services has also fueled interest.
The office of the U.S. Trade Representative noted that Antigua was seeking sanctions worth more than three times the size of its entire economy.
"Antigua's claim was patently excessive," it said in a statement. "The United States is pleased that the figure arrived at by the arbitrator is over 100 times lower than Antigua's claim."
However, the U.S. said it was concerned that Antigua could now violate some American intellectual property rights ? which could range from CDs and DVDs to computer software, industrial designs and designer clothing.
The ruling could "establish a harmful precedent for a WTO member to affirmatively authorize what would otherwise be considered acts of piracy, counterfeiting or other forms of ... infringement," the U.S. said.
The U.S. and Antigua cannot appeal Friday's decision.
Realistically, it would have been very difficult for a country the size of Antigua's to implement hundreds of millions of dollars worth of trade sanctions on the U.S. without harming its own economy and the welfare of its citizens. Ecuador was awarded similar retaliation rights in a bananas dispute with the European Union in 2000, but failed to come up with an effective way to introduce countermeasures.
The WTO arbitration panel said it had to adopt its own approach to come up with a fair retaliation figure in view of the wide difference in how the U.S. and Antigua estimated the economic effect of the gambling ban.
"In doing so, we feel we are on shaky grounds," the panel said in an 88-page decision.
Washington stopped U.S. banks and credit card companies last year from processing payments to online gambling businesses outside the country. The decision closed off the most lucrative region in a growing market worth about $15.5 billion last year. About half of the world's online gamblers are based in the U.S.
The arrest in 2006 of two British Internet gambling executives while traveling through the United States also highlighted the U.S. government's escalation of its battle against the industry.
The WTO, however, upheld in March previous rulings striking down the U.S ban.
The trade body found that the U.S. had the right to prevent offshore betting as a means of protecting public order and public morals. But it said Washington was violating trade law by targeting online gambling without equal application of the rules to American operators offering remote betting on horse and dog racing.
Antigua, the smallest country to successfully litigate a case in the WTO's 12-year-history, had hoped the ruling would lead the U.S. to revoke the restrictions.
The former British colony of about 80,000 people had been promoting electronic commerce as a way to end the country's reliance on tourism, which was hurt by a series of hurricanes in the late 1990s. There are 32 licensed online casinos in Antigua, employing 1,000 people and generating a yearly revenue of around $130 million. Seven years ago, its casinos had an annual income closer to $1 billion.
But Washington responded to its legal defeat by announcing it would take the unprecedented step of revising the conditions under which it signed the WTO's 1994 General Agreement on Trade in Services, or GATS. That allowed a number of countries to seek compensation under a separate process.
The U.S. has since agreed on deals with the 27-nation European Union, Canada and Japan to change the treaty ? but has failed to do so with Antigua, Costa Rica, India and Macau.
Until it gains the approval of all 151 members of the WTO, the U.S. online betting ban is illegal under international trade rules. As a result, Antigua will have the right to penalize U.S. services and intellectual property until the U.S. government either permits Americans to gamble over foreign-based sites or eliminates exceptions for off-track betting on horses, including over the Internet.
British gambling companies ? which bankrolled Antigua's efforts and heavily lobbied Brussels for tough action ? were disappointed earlier this week when the EU announced that it had received some minor U.S. trade concessions in exchange for accepting the U.S.-proposed revision to the GATS.
The deal fell far short of the $100 billion in new commercial opportunities the Internet gaming sites claimed the United States owed.
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
If Antigua sells US copyrighted music, software, and movies American citizens who buy them will be exposed to getting sued for possessing said pirated material!
Antiguans would be able to buy them legally. And citizens of countries other than the US could purchase them without concern (only because they are outside of the reach of the RIAA, MPAA, etc).
US citizens on the other hand, if caught with pirated material, might just get sued by the American copyright owners. WTO be damned.
So, for US citizens, downloading Antiguan .mp3s or buying twenty-five cent American movies is still going to carry the same consequences as it always has (not that that has stopped anyone!)
This I believe to be true (though I Am Not A Lawyer).
If Antigua sells US copyrighted music, software, and movies American citizens who buy them will be exposed to getting sued for possessing said pirated material!
Antiguans would be able to buy them legally. And citizens of countries other than the US could purchase them without concern (only because they are outside of the reach of the RIAA, MPAA, etc).
US citizens on the other hand, if caught with pirated material, might just get sued by the American copyright owners. WTO be damned.
So, for US citizens, downloading Antiguan .mp3s or buying twenty-five cent American movies is still going to carry the same consequences as it always has (not that that has stopped anyone!)
This I believe to be true (though I Am Not A Lawyer).
wrigley
2
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
I never thought of that good point, so we cant gambling offshore and we wont be able to buy discounted software offshore.
Boy its great to live in the land of the Free under a non communist goverment
:smokesmal
I never thought of that good point, so we cant gambling offshore and we wont be able to buy discounted software offshore.
Boy its great to live in the land of the Free under a non communist goverment
:smokesmal
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
WTF are you talking about!?
Antigua won in my opinion
talk about guaranteed revenue
Regards
21 million is alo of money!
WTF are you talking about!?
Antigua won in my opinion
talk about guaranteed revenue
Regards
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
So how are they gonna count the $21 million????
This gives Antigua the right to just start selling shit cheap. And is the $21million what they sell or retail price. Hell if its what they sell, I'd sell $1000 programs for a penny.
Microsoft, Disney, etc are all going to be at Congress's throats...
Sean
So how are they gonna count the $21 million????
This gives Antigua the right to just start selling shit cheap. And is the $21million what they sell or retail price. Hell if its what they sell, I'd sell $1000 programs for a penny.
Microsoft, Disney, etc are all going to be at Congress's throats...
Sean
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
It's entertaining to imagine Antiguan online stores selling extremely low priced stuff (Microsoft Windows Vista for half of a penny :doh1).
You'd think that wouldn't be allowed though, as per the fine print somewhere. I'd like to read more about it.
"A 21 million penalty" is ambiguous. Any links to this info available?
But, really, the question may be moot considering what is likely to happen: The US has requested Antigua delay collecting their 21 million until MAY OF 2008 at which time the US will supposedly have submitted a new proposal to realign their WTO standings on this issue. So Antigua could agree and wait until sometime next year, probably after a few more months of delays beyond May 2008, maybe even up to a year from now; then the US will get Antigua to accept a deal wherein Antigua somehow gets about 21 million per year in a way that they no longer want to infringe on US copyrights. The could try to get Antigua to accept some deal similar to what they recently signed with the EU.
It's entertaining to imagine Antiguan online stores selling extremely low priced stuff (Microsoft Windows Vista for half of a penny :doh1).
You'd think that wouldn't be allowed though, as per the fine print somewhere. I'd like to read more about it.
"A 21 million penalty" is ambiguous. Any links to this info available?
But, really, the question may be moot considering what is likely to happen: The US has requested Antigua delay collecting their 21 million until MAY OF 2008 at which time the US will supposedly have submitted a new proposal to realign their WTO standings on this issue. So Antigua could agree and wait until sometime next year, probably after a few more months of delays beyond May 2008, maybe even up to a year from now; then the US will get Antigua to accept a deal wherein Antigua somehow gets about 21 million per year in a way that they no longer want to infringe on US copyrights. The could try to get Antigua to accept some deal similar to what they recently signed with the EU.
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
Amsterdam, you are misinformed. Purchases of goods from foreign countries are absolutely legal provided said purchase does not constitute a US copyright or trademark infringement.
Mr. Clean
EOG Enthusiast
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
No Judger, you are misinformed. The question of copyright or trademark arises in the country in which the material or mark is being used. Practically every country has a bilateral agreement with the United States regarding copyrights and trademarks and patents. If Holland, for instance, starts importing pirate goods from Antigua, it will be in violation of its agreements with the US. If a Dutch citizen returns from Antigua with a pirated copy of Microsoft Office, it will likely be seized. It may be legal in Antigua, but it isn't legal anywhere else. The WTO didn't allow Holland to ignore copyright and trademark and patent. America can, and will, lay the hammer down hard on any other country which allows distribution of these pirate goods within its borders. For instance, it can stop mail going to and coming from those countries in a real fuck you buddy scenario. Yes, Antigua can ignore American copyrights and patents and trademarks within its own boundaries, and up to a value each year of $21 million. That's what the deal really is. And only if we don't pay them the $21 million. If Antigua pisses off the US too much, the US will decide to strip search every tourist returning from Antigua. End of tourism industry. Antigua was a very poor choice of "country" to try and make this case. Let's face it, it's a corrupt shithole licensing some of the biggest crooks in the industry.
No Judger, you are misinformed. The question of copyright or trademark arises in the country in which the material or mark is being used. Practically every country has a bilateral agreement with the United States regarding copyrights and trademarks and patents. If Holland, for instance, starts importing pirate goods from Antigua, it will be in violation of its agreements with the US. If a Dutch citizen returns from Antigua with a pirated copy of Microsoft Office, it will likely be seized. It may be legal in Antigua, but it isn't legal anywhere else. The WTO didn't allow Holland to ignore copyright and trademark and patent. America can, and will, lay the hammer down hard on any other country which allows distribution of these pirate goods within its borders. For instance, it can stop mail going to and coming from those countries in a real fuck you buddy scenario. Yes, Antigua can ignore American copyrights and patents and trademarks within its own boundaries, and up to a value each year of $21 million. That's what the deal really is. And only if we don't pay them the $21 million. If Antigua pisses off the US too much, the US will decide to strip search every tourist returning from Antigua. End of tourism industry. Antigua was a very poor choice of "country" to try and make this case. Let's face it, it's a corrupt shithole licensing some of the biggest crooks in the industry.
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
True, but even if they start to do it, the recording labels, the movie industry, software companies, etc will get pissed off enough to start making noise and this actually could lead towards legalized gambling.
True, but even if they start to do it, the recording labels, the movie industry, software companies, etc will get pissed off enough to start making noise and this actually could lead towards legalized gambling.
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
Insightful. I guess it's fair to say this 21 million retaliation ruling is just a token victory for Antigua and they would likely be receptive to whatever new deal the US offers them next year. A new deal that, of course, will nix the copyright power.
It seems the US has pretty much neutralized all of the countries in regard to this issue except for India, Costa Rica, and another small island nation. And I haven't read anything about their stepping up to the plate.
And through all of this, sad to say, but it's been nothing but more bad news for US sports bettors.
Insightful. I guess it's fair to say this 21 million retaliation ruling is just a token victory for Antigua and they would likely be receptive to whatever new deal the US offers them next year. A new deal that, of course, will nix the copyright power.
It seems the US has pretty much neutralized all of the countries in regard to this issue except for India, Costa Rica, and another small island nation. And I haven't read anything about their stepping up to the plate.
And through all of this, sad to say, but it's been nothing but more bad news for US sports bettors.
Re: BREAKING NEWS ABOUT WTO: ANTIGUA VS. US
And now that the US signed deals with EU and Japan there is virtually nothing to stop them from bullying Antigua as Mr. Clean describes.
You've got to wonder exactly what was going on behind the scenes to get the timing right to get a EU/Japan deal inked before this Antigua ruling happened.
Obviously the reason for the continued unexplained delays from the WTO ruling panel were due to US "negotiations" to create a more fortuitous environment for their future strong-arming.
And now that the US signed deals with EU and Japan there is virtually nothing to stop them from bullying Antigua as Mr. Clean describes.
You've got to wonder exactly what was going on behind the scenes to get the timing right to get a EU/Japan deal inked before this Antigua ruling happened.
Obviously the reason for the continued unexplained delays from the WTO ruling panel were due to US "negotiations" to create a more fortuitous environment for their future strong-arming.