Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

Journeyman · Feb 14, 2008

Future Hall of Fame voting is going to be so crazy, how does one even vote at this point, there are so many players that are suspected and even guys like Frank Thomas, Manny Ramirez, Big Papi (still a ways off), Pujols and many others you just have to wonder about everyone...how does one even decide at this point.

I am certain Clemens will never get in and he will be the Pete Rose of his era, year after year it will be picked at Clemens will end up hated and looked at just like Pete Rose.

350+ wins and he has no shot! Amazing yes, but this is what it is now and sadly there coukld be a guy like say Randy Johnson (just throwing his name out as an example) he could have been privately using all this time and will never be questioned!

:+whipping

Happy trails Rocket Man, it's gonna be a long, long, time! :cocktail

Ego74 · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

Palmeiro will never get in

Not looking real good for McGwire either

raycabino · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

Would be pitiful if Clemens and Bonds don't make the HoF and is already pitiful that Rose isn't in.

Journeyman · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

raycabino said:
Would be pitiful if Clemens and Bonds don't make the HoF and is already pitiful that Rose isn't in.

All 3 were certainly great players on or off drugs and Rose of course was HOF worthy...it's just a fucked up mess.

Some players will never be caught while a guy right next to them in player ranking is hanging by his balls....just doesn't seem like there is any way to rectify that.

Clemens at least get to keep his extra 80-100 million :cocktail

Bonds still may end up with an asterisk I believe.

Would have been real interesting if the govt would have gone after Bonds last year and he was still chasing Aaron, they want Bonds bad.

cassiusclay · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

the whole thing is messed up. mlb is worried about the past, i would be more worried about the present and the future. i have three good friends all which made it to the minor leagues in the early 90's, all 3 were exceptional athletes and never would consider using steroids. it's a shame that these guys could have lost spots on a roster to guys who lacked the desire or courage to do things the hard/right way. on the flip side, you can't keep these guys out of the hall of fame but if they make it pete rose has an outside shot....

Starpost9 · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

Selig has promised to do "something." What that something is might well determine whether Roger makes HOF.

I suspect he does... like on third or fourth ballot, whereas before he'd have been guaranteed first ballot.

Amazing how short people's memories are. And I betcha that by the time he gets close to making it, all kinds of other players' crap will have come to the fore, making his transgressions seem like child's play.

The Devil · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

IF NEITHER BONDS OR CLEMENS PLAYS THIS YEAR, THEY WILL BOTH BECOME ELIGIBLE AT THE SAME TIME......

WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THE VOTES COME OUT FOR BOTH OF THEM.......

WILL ACTUALLY BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF THEY PERSUE CLEMENS AS THEY HAVE DONE WITH BONDS...

FEELING HERE IS THEY HAVE TO GO AFTER CLEMENS FOR PERJURY OR THEY WILL LOOK LIKE THEY WANT THE BLACK LIAR AND NOT THE WHITE ONE...........

texansfan · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

Well, Clemens stated at his news conference that he "didn't give a rats ass about the HOF." I say lets call him on that and see if he's bluffing.

Flamingo kid · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

Doesn't it bother anyone that baseball is only going after Bonds and Clemens and not all the other people who are in the Mitchell report? Or, do you think its ok to single out one or two people and ruin their lives and let the others go scot free?

As far as the HOF goes, anyone with 7 Cy Youngs has to get into the HOF. A little juice or HGH isn't going to make a guy win this many awards that wasn't going to win them all anyway.

Journeyman · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

The Devil said:
IF NEITHER BONDS OR CLEMENS PLAYS THIS YEAR, THEY WILL BOTH BECOME ELIGIBLE AT THE SAME TIME......

WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THE VOTES COME OUT FOR BOTH OF THEM.......

WILL ACTUALLY BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF THEY PERSUE CLEMENS AS THEY HAVE DONE WITH BONDS...

FEELING HERE IS THEY HAVE TO GO AFTER CLEMENS FOR PERJURY OR THEY WILL LOOK LIKE THEY WANT THE BLACK LIAR AND NOT THE WHITE ONE...........

can you imagine that possible ballot

bonds
clemens
piazza
bagwell
sosa

biggio who is now considered a 'lock' because of 3000, but maybe not by then! also possible that Biggio- guilt by association and suspicion, it willbe really interesting to see how it all plays out, just wish we didnt have to wait 5 more years.

:+clueless

Flamingo kid · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

I'll pose THIS question for the panel of experts here.

Is there ANYONE who is currently in the HOF who experimented with PED's at any point in their careers? Or, do you think that every single HOF member has never has one molecule of PEDs in their system at any time in their lives?

The Devil · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

AND MAYBE SCHILLING TOO IF HE IS DONE.........

Journeyman · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

Flamingo kid said:
Doesn't it bother anyone that baseball is only going after Bonds and Clemens and not all the other people who are in the Mitchell report? Or, do you think its ok to single out one or two people and ruin their lives and let the others go scot free?

As far as the HOF goes, anyone with 7 Cy Youngs has to get into the HOF. A little juice or HGH isn't going to make a guy win this many awards that wasn't going to win them all anyway.

I am almost certain Clemens would have still been a HOFer if his career ended 4 years ago...he's been juicing , who knows maybe as far back even as his Bosox days, steroids were easy to come by...I would not be surprised if something else leaks out about Roger from even further back.

what a mess

At least with Clemens, he always delivered and even though he was paid based on his jacked up physique, he did deliver the goods for the most part..unlike some others who were paid based on steroid performance and then they became 'normal' again, so many players made a ton more money then they ever would have because of those artifical results.

texansfan · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

Biggio? I saw him for all 20 of his seasons and he was always the same.

I also like how FK is trying to divert the topic away from Clemens. He has to be related somehow.

The Devil · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

texansfan said:
Biggio? I saw him for all 20 of his seasons and he was always the same.

I also like how FK is trying to divert the topic away from Clemens. He has to be related somehow.

OR MAYBE HE IS ROGER CLEMENS??????:dancefool

Journeyman · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

Flamingo kid said:
I'll pose THIS question for the panel of experts here.

Is there ANYONE who is currently in the HOF who experimented with PED's at any point in their careers? Or, do you think that every single HOF member has never has one molecule of PEDs in their system at any time in their lives?

I'm pretty certain there are some...steroids were very popular as far back as the 70's as we all know, weightlifting wasn't popular for baseball players til the early 80's and even then it was not common....

Early weightlifter, ballplayers Brian Downing, Lance Parrish come to mind as standing out,Mickey tettleton was aniother early one....the old Pirates team Willie Stargell era , was supposedly heavily involved in cocaine and amphetamines , do these count as PEDs?

As for recent HOFers maybe Rickey Henderson?

Journeyman · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

texansfan said:
Biggio? I saw him for all 20 of his seasons and he was always the same.

I also like how FK is trying to divert the topic away from Clemens. He has to be related somehow.

Yeah but he got better with time, and that is what is going to be scrutinized.

I am not saying Biggio did, but when a player is better at age 38 than he was at 28, it will now always raise and eyebrow.

texansfan · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

If his name wasn't Biggio and he wasn't playing for the Astros he wouldn't have made 20 years. The Astros kept him because of the fans and because of 3000 hits. He declined over the years and towards the end wasn't that good of a second baseman.

dirty · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

Why does no one Mention Molitor in the Steroid Talk..this Cat had as Many Hits after 40 as he did in his 30's....that is unheard of

NickPappagiorgio · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

If history is any judge, they all deserve to be in. For years players have used performance enhancing and illegal drugs and have been voted into the Hall of Fame. Amphetamines were rampant in MLB for years and players that used them are in. Does anyone really believe that Mickey Mantle didnt need a "pick me up" for all those day games after a late night drinking and whoring? There is nothing really different this time, only that ESPN needed a few years worth of news.

The MLB HOF will continue to be a joke to me until one James Edward Rice is inducted.

trytrytry · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

journey he is a first ballet lock to get in.

Journeyman · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

trytrytry said:
journey he is a first ballet lock to get in.

He will NEVER get in now, never.

I agree he still deserves to get in, the writers will never allow it though.

The point isn't whether he deserves it or not, do you think he will still be elected?

He has no chance.

trytrytry · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

i disagree..he is a 100% lock to get in and 80% in first ballet

TomBrady#1 · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

I think he gets in. hard to tell how people will vote on this. he gets in though!

Journeyman · Feb 14, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

I wish we didnt have to wait five years to prove you guys wrong...he has ZERO chance.

:thumbsup see you in 5, hopefully.

THE SHRINK · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

trytrytry said:
i disagree..he is a 100% lock to get in and 80% in first ballet

Agreed and I say he gets in first ballot as well...:cheers

Journeyman · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

Several writers already have said 'no way'....we shall see though.

He should have just admitted he used it to recover a couple times and blew it off.

I cant believe you guys think he's getting in still after seeing how McGwire has been treated his first two tries.

royboy · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

THE SHRINK said:
Agreed and I say he gets in first ballot as well...:cheers

he has as good a chance as bonds does first ballot... between 0 and 5 percent chance

royboy · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

Journeyman said:
Several writers already have said 'no way'....we shall see though.

He should have just admitted he used it to recover a couple times and blew it off.

I cant believe you guys think he's getting in still after seeing how McGwire has been treated his first two tries.

how many more votes did big mac get this year than his first try? seems like it was one or two. i was suprised he didn't get a significant increase, goes to show the voters are serious about keeping these guys out.

The Devil · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

the writers will hold this against him......doubt he gets more than 50% on first ballot.........

The Devil · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

after his i dont give a rats ass about the hall of fame???? he won't get in on the first ballot..........

Journeyman · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

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<HR style="COLOR: #fdde82" SIZE=1>I don't think Clemens gained anything quickly, he's always had a bit of a temper, many competetive athletes are firey! It is hard to fathom how he has gotten so much better the past 4-5 years, and seems less prone to injury....Clemens probably not clean...

What about Julio Franco, Rickey Henderson?
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12-08-2005, 10:03 AM #6
Journeyman

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I think it is a strong possibilty Clemens could go back to NY or Bos, also the other scenario is he comes back with Houston in May , since he is older it may even be the best fit for him.

No way, he's retiring.

Journeyman · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

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Roger Clemens amazing season continues, 7 more road shutout innings!
<HR style="COLOR: #fdde82" SIZE=1>The Rocket went into sundays contest vs the Giants having allowed 3 earned runs on the road for the entire season....

IP-7
H-6
ER-0
K-4
BB-2

Lowering his 0.41 ERA

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<HR style="COLOR: #fdde82" SIZE=1>I agree he could push 400 wins...3 earned runs in 73 road innings this year...

43 yr old Clemens is 79-26 since turning 38.
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<HR style="COLOR: #fdde82" SIZE=1>1968 Gibson 22-9, ERA 1.12, 13 shutouts,IP 304, ER 38 HR-11, BB 62, K's 268
2005 Clemens 11-4 ERA 1.38 0 shutouts IP 156, ER 24 HR-6, BB 44 K's 139
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<HR style="COLOR: #fdde82" SIZE=1>Why is it though, Maddux gets so much less recognition?

Maddux has actually been more dominant and more consistent for longer than Roger Clemens...

I am guessing its the perception that Maddux has, compaired with Clemens...one looks like mild mannered

Clark Kent, the other nicknamed The Rocket will shave off a two day old beard with high cheese if your not careful, and if you really tick him off, he may just take a broken bat and wing it at you ,lol...

All kidding aside Greg Maddux has been every bit as good as Roger Clemens...

Maddux playing for a team with not a great home field atmosphere in red hot Atlanta ,I would think he pitched in less favorable conditions than Clemens, even though Turner Field is a pitchers park...while Clemens played in the intense Al East pitching in frenzied stadiums with much more electricity...who couldn't get fired up pitching in NYC and Boston, even Skydome was sold out nightly back then...

Two very different pitchers who should both be mentioned as equals...
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Journeyman · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

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<HR style="COLOR: #fdde82" SIZE=1>I`m calling it early, at 4-0 the Rocketman will start the Allstar Game in his home state at MinuteMaid Park, and at this rate he might end up collecting his 7th Cy Young Award!!!!!!!

I can hear Elton John`s 'Rocket Man' blaring as Clemens warms up to face the American League ....

Lol, I bet George is steaming over this...Steinbrenner may tell Clemens to go into the Hall with a Red Sox cap (which he should do anyway) afterall!!

................

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<HR style="COLOR: #fdde82" SIZE=1>Remember put this in persective, Rocket has been dealing since way back when Doc Gooden was a stud...that seems like well nearly 20 years ago (which it was!)

OBTW- he`s on another 9 game winning streak.

He may end up starting game 1 of the NLDS!

I`d love to see Boston or NY vs Houston in the WS! How cool would that be?
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<HR style="COLOR: #fdde82" SIZE=1>Rocket at 10-2 looks like a lock to start in Houston... NL manager Jack McKeon downplayed the obvious question on ESPN tonight...

"We will have to see where the guys are in their rotations"...when asked about the obvious choice to have Clemens start before his hometown....

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Clemens will never make the Hall of Fame now, agree with me? Who else never gets in?

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