Rams & Goff

Heim

EOG Master
They so want to dump him. Obvious based on recent comments by GM. However:


cutting Goff would cost the Rams $65.2 million against the cap ($49.8 million after June 1)
and trading him would cost them at least $22.2 million.



4 years at 132 million a killer
 

FairWarning

Bells Beer Connoisseur
How can all of these qb gurus from the Andy Reid tree have high draft picks invested in a qb and now none of them are working out. When does it fall on the coach?
 
How can all of these qb gurus from the Andy Reid tree have high draft picks invested in a qb and now none of them are working out. When does it fall on the coach?

In this case its the GM who bears the risk. It was well known that he was taking the risk with the extension. McVay never would say it publicly but the inside word in LA is that he told them give me a QB with just a few characteristics and I'll make it work. Supposedly he really was intrigued by them landing Dak at some point. I mean if you really think you can let $35m cap hit hold a clipboard and go with an undrafted guy in his place, wow that's a risk few people in the game would ever take. Maybe if you were Belicheck or Payton or Reid and had that kind of job security, but for almost everyone else you probably just can't bring yourself to do it. In the last 15 years Tony Romo is the only undrafted QB to accomplish much.
 

Don Eagleston

EOG Addicted
In this case its the GM who bears the risk. It was well known that he was taking the risk with the extension. McVay never would say it publicly but the inside word in LA is that he told them give me a QB with just a few characteristics and I'll make it work. Supposedly he really was intrigued by them landing Dak at some point. I mean if you really think you can let $35m cap hit hold a clipboard and go with an undrafted guy in his place, wow that's a risk few people in the game would ever take. Maybe if you were Belicheck or Payton or Reid and had that kind of job security, but for almost everyone else you probably just can't bring yourself to do it. In the last 15 years Tony Romo is the only undrafted QB to accomplish much.

Wild Bill is correct again. The GMs make these picks in most cases. McVay knew once the Rams scored just 3 in the Super Bowl that Goff was not the answer.

And McVay is from the Mike Shanahan tree. He never worked for Andy Reid.
 

MrTop

EOG Master
when a team loses the teams always blame the QB cause he makes the most. The GM's make so many other bad moves way before they give out the QB contract. How did the teams that won a super bowl with a bad QB like manning was a few years ago and so on do it ?
 

boston massacre

EOG Dedicated
Los Angeles Rams/ San Francisco 49ers


Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVay have been lauded for their ability to scheme up an offense. To this point, both coaches have been able to get a productive offense and a Super Bowl berth out of average quarterback play. In both cases, the structure of the offense has lifted up the player under center. Just this season, Nick Mullens was 12th in EPA per attempt on passing plays from a clean pocket.


But it appears both coaches have reached the tipping point in knowing just because they can scheme around average quarterback play, doesn’t mean they have to do so. Both saw what a version of their offensive scheme was able to accomplish with a talent like Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay — he led the league in EPA per attempt and is the likely NFL MVP for the 2020 season. Shanahan also saw what he was able to accomplish with Matt Ryan in 2016 — another MVP and a Super Bowl appearance.


The 49ers have been linked to just about every available quarterback, either through the draft or trade. Thanks to a $28 million roster bonus that was given out in the first year of Jimmy Garoppolo’s contract with the 49ers, his deal only has $2.8 million in dead money for the 2021 season. It’s easily tradable or cuttable. San Francisco also has the 12th overall pick, which is a solid asset for either a veteran or to potentially trade up in the draft.


McVay and Co. have used nearly every opportunity since the season ended to cast doubt on the status of Jared Goff as the quarterback for the 2021 season. The most likely result is a competition between Goff and John Wolford or another young quarterback, though other external options will be limited without a first-round pick.


That is because Goff’s contract is much harder to move than Garoppolo’s. The Rams can’t cut Goff. Even a post-June 1 cut which spreads out the dead money over two seasons would force the Rams to lose $14.85 million on the 2021 cap. Should the Rams trade Goff before June 1, they would save $12.75 million on the cap with a $22.2 million dead money hit, per Over The Cap. The acquiring team would take on a $28.1 million cap hit for 2021 and a $25.7 million hit for 2022. Unlike Stafford, who could bring some surplus-value in that hypothetical mid-tier quarterback contract, it’s more of a you-get-what-you-pay-for with Goff at that price. It’s not an easy move, but it might be one the Rams are aggressive to make.


Both Shanahan and McVay wanting to upgrade at quarterback could be one of the most fun and underrated developments this offseason and could easily turn into one of the best-case scenarios for the 2021 regular season.
 

FairWarning

Bells Beer Connoisseur
Los Angeles Rams/ San Francisco 49ers


Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVay have been lauded for their ability to scheme up an offense. To this point, both coaches have been able to get a productive offense and a Super Bowl berth out of average quarterback play. In both cases, the structure of the offense has lifted up the player under center. Just this season, Nick Mullens was 12th in EPA per attempt on passing plays from a clean pocket.


But it appears both coaches have reached the tipping point in knowing just because they can scheme around average quarterback play, doesn’t mean they have to do so. Both saw what a version of their offensive scheme was able to accomplish with a talent like Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay — he led the league in EPA per attempt and is the likely NFL MVP for the 2020 season. Shanahan also saw what he was able to accomplish with Matt Ryan in 2016 — another MVP and a Super Bowl appearance.


The 49ers have been linked to just about every available quarterback, either through the draft or trade. Thanks to a $28 million roster bonus that was given out in the first year of Jimmy Garoppolo’s contract with the 49ers, his deal only has $2.8 million in dead money for the 2021 season. It’s easily tradable or cuttable. San Francisco also has the 12th overall pick, which is a solid asset for either a veteran or to potentially trade up in the draft.


McVay and Co. have used nearly every opportunity since the season ended to cast doubt on the status of Jared Goff as the quarterback for the 2021 season. The most likely result is a competition between Goff and John Wolford or another young quarterback, though other external options will be limited without a first-round pick.


That is because Goff’s contract is much harder to move than Garoppolo’s. The Rams can’t cut Goff. Even a post-June 1 cut which spreads out the dead money over two seasons would force the Rams to lose $14.85 million on the 2021 cap. Should the Rams trade Goff before June 1, they would save $12.75 million on the cap with a $22.2 million dead money hit, per Over The Cap. The acquiring team would take on a $28.1 million cap hit for 2021 and a $25.7 million hit for 2022. Unlike Stafford, who could bring some surplus-value in that hypothetical mid-tier quarterback contract, it’s more of a you-get-what-you-pay-for with Goff at that price. It’s not an easy move, but it might be one the Rams are aggressive to make.


Both Shanahan and McVay wanting to upgrade at quarterback could be one of the most fun and underrated developments this offseason and could easily turn into one of the best-case scenarios for the 2021 regular season.
You used to be able to make the SB with a average QB, not so much anymore.
 

choslamshe

EOG Dedicated
I'm rooting for Stafford to get his shot on a contender. He's not the best, but deserves his shot. Has all the tools to be the best pocket passer in the league. Has made mistakes throughout his career but his teams have always been among the worst.
 

FairWarning

Bells Beer Connoisseur
Very true, such a QB driven league. Be interesting to see if the Ravens in a year or two have this sort of dilemma. Can Lamar really win you multiple playoff games?
I say they will have this dilemma. The injury factor is too great, plus he has to evolve more as a passer, Russell Wilson did. Baltimore should have went after Darrell Bevell for OC. Coaching in Seattle would help Jackson.
 

Heim

EOG Master
The handwriting was on the wall when McVay said Goff had to compete for a starting job next season. You're paying a guy 132 million and he has to compete with a guy who hadn't thrown a pass in the NFL until recently.
 
I would agree if Stafford didn't turn 33 soon.

Is Stafford really a big upgrade over Goff? That's what I can't get past. If they traded Goff for Watson I'm on board, but getting say a 6 or 6.5 to give up a 5 doesn't seem worth continuing to give up on future talent. Or put it this way, does Stafford in place of Goff get them the win in GB?
 

Viejo Dinosaur

EOG Master
Stafford has had numerous injuries the past two years....my concerns would be that he is damaged goods...Hopefully for the Rams they better hope I am wrong....
 

mrbowling300

EOG Dedicated
Would love to hear MrBowling’s take on this trade....

I think Stafford is average at best, and for what the Lions are getting in return, Goff and 2 first round picks will help in our rebuild. Also think about if Detroit got that for Stafford, what does this do for the Deshwan Watson market for Houston? It is interesting to note that the Lions GM is Brad Holmes who the Lions just hired from the Rams. Sounds like the Rams wanted to dump Goff's contract, so from a business standpoint, it is a win win for both sides. I don't believe the Rams have had a first round pick since they traded up to get Goff back in 2016. Seems from their end, it is a win now, and they think Stafford can put them over the top.

The question that is about to be answered about Stafford, is Stafford a great player held back by managements inability to draft right, and put enough talent on the field to surround Stafford, or was Stafford part of the problem in Detroit, being an average at best player. His stats shine, but let's face it, how many times were the Lions down by 14 in the fourth quarter, with teams playing prevent defense enabling Stafford to pile up a ton of stats in garbage time? Rob Parker gave him the best nickname, Pat Statford. Stafford was 0-3 in the playoffs, and had a dismal record against teams with a record of .500 or greater.

I don't blame Stafford for wanting out of Detroit, he didn't want to waste any more of his career on a rebuild team, which is what has been going on her for the better part of Stafford's tenure in Detroit. He has been beaten up pretty bad in recent seasons. The injuries have piled up, a broken back, he played with a torn ligament in this thumb this year, and that's after having a streak of playing in 150+ games in a row. Who know what toll it has taken on Stafford in recent years, but I can say he is one tough SOB.

I would have like to see Goff's expression when he learned he was coming to Detroit, lol. I would compare it to being kicked in the nuts.

Personally, I would like to see Stafford succeed in LA. Maybe this will be a great fit for Stafford, and his play will be come elevated as a result. I would think with the Rams team around him, he could lead them to winning at least 10 games. Will it put the Rams over the top to win a Super Bowl? That is to be seen, and of course, Stafford has to be free of the type of injuries he has experienced the past 3 seasons. This reminds me of when Verlander was sent to the Astros, everyone in Detroit was pulling for him, and the same will happen w/ Stafford. He has a house in South California, and his long time buddy, Clayton Kershaw is in LA as well. Also, the real question is will his wife Kelly be happy there, lol. She is probably the reason in pushing Stafford to get out of Detroit in the first place.

At his into press conference in LA, pay attention to how many times Stafford says "ummm", Detroit radio stations have made musical mixes out of him saying ummm excessively, lol.
 
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John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
Hard to find a similar situation to the Goff-Stafford trade in NFL history.

How about 1980 when the Raiders and Oilers swapped quarterbacks?

Oakland sent Kenny Stabler to the Oilers for Dan Pastorini with no other players involved.

Interestingly, a 34-year-old Stabler threw 28 interceptions during the 1980 NFL season but qualified for the postseason as a wild-card entrant.

The Oilers first-round opponent?

You guessed it.

Da Raiders.

Stabler versus his old team.

But Oakland was not led by a struggling Dan Pastorini.

Instead, Jim Plunkett was in charge of the Raiders by season's end and led the team to a victory over Stabler and the Oilers en route to a 27-10 Super Bowl victory over the Philadelphia Eagles.
 

mrbowling300

EOG Dedicated
Stafford is going to be pumped man. This guy has some weapons AND has a full blown defense.

I would be pumped as well, after wasting 12 years of my life in football oblivion, lol. Financially, you cannot feel sorry for him, he has been compensated extremely well.
 

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
Too many analysts review a player's career on the number of championships won.

We all know that's silly.

Instead, why not view a player's career in two parts: regular season and postseason.

Nobody would hang Matthew Stafford for not winning a Super Bowl.

But it's reasonable to downgrade the 33-year-old Stafford for going 0-3 in the NFL playoffs with declining QB ratings (97,87. and 76) in those 2011, 2014 and 2016 playoff appearances.
 
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mrbowling300

EOG Dedicated
Agreed, JK, look at Dan Marino.

A very important attribute of Stafford is that he has had the utmost respect of his teammates, management and ownership during his tenure with the Detroit Lions due to his work ethic, leadership and playing through injuries. Walking into the LA locker room, I have no reason to believe the same will not occur there.
 

FairWarning

Bells Beer Connoisseur
Great point. With what's about to happen here the next several years, Goff is not going to make much of a difference right now. May as well get as many draft picks as you can!
I’m a little surprised that Detroit got that for Stafford. They were smart in beating Houston in the trade market. I think Houston would have taken that for Watson. Seeing that, Miami may sit it out, so it’s the Jets basically bidding against themselves. This is why Detroit should offer Goff around. Not everyone can afford the Porsch, but many can afford the next level down.
 
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