TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

KTBKRUSHER

KTBKRUSHER

2
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i tried this with mr mercer but he never responded so I will open it up to another person that differs with my opinion.

I am Anti Abortion, I believe it is the murder of an innocent baby and it is basically irresponsible peoples late birth control. It is a child, not a choice.
I can only begin to see reasoning for abortion in the case of rape or incest or if it is truly a danger to the child and mother......I believe that life begins at conception not at birth...

whomever wishes to take this debate up....I leave it in your hands.
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Nicolos_Darvas

Nicolos_Darvas

2
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

Open up the link and look thru the pictures at the various stages of development. If you still support abortion after looking thru thru the pics then I guess we really don't have much to talk about then.

embryo and fetal development of fetus pictures at various stages with explanations + the unborn human embrio after an implant failed & dead babies failure embryos gestational status ovulation - Prenatal Fetology Foetology & Embryology Biology Medical
 
KTBKRUSHER

KTBKRUSHER

2
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" width="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">so we have 2 anti abortion views here....

anyone from the other side care to debate...

this post should be here a while..i won't be on here much longer tonight but will check in tomorrow....peace
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Mr Fury

Mr Fury

2
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

My personal feeling is pro choice.
I also feel that only women should have a
say so in the matter.
Untim men start having babies they should
shut the f@$k up about abortion.
 
G

gofer5

EOG Addicted
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

Mr Fury said:
My personal feeling is pro choice.
I also feel that only women should have a
say so in the matter.
Untim men start having babies they should
shut the f@$k up about abortion.
Click to expand...

So you feel that abortion is just more or less another form of Birth Control. FYI My girlfriend is pro-life and consider's abortion MURDER as do I. And we will never condone MURDER!!
 
The Devil

The Devil

EOG Master
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

WHEN THEY CAN PROVE TO ME THAT A FETUS OF LESS THAN 4 MONTHS CAN SURVIVE OUT OF THE WOMB BY ITSELF I WILL BE AGAINST ABORTION......AND WHEN THEY SHOW THAT A FETUS IS IMPAIRED BEFORE BIRTH AND WILL BE IN AN INSTUTITION FOR LIFE, WHY NOT ABORT IT?
 
Jimmy Hoffa

Jimmy Hoffa

1
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

I honestly don't care about the abortion issue at all.

My only beef about it is that Medicaid pays for thousands of abortions each year. Medicaid is funded by the taxpayers and should not be used by low income receipients as birth control.

This is strictly a monetary issue for me. If a woman wants an abortion, fine. She can pay for it herself.
 
ZZ CREAM

ZZ CREAM

EOG Master
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

Jimmy Hoffa said:
I honestly don't care about the abortion issue at all.

My only beef about it is that Medicaid pays for thousands of abortions each year. Medicaid is funded by the taxpayers and should not be used by low income receipients as birth control.

This is strictly a monetary issue for me. If a woman wants an abortion, fine. She can pay for it herself.
Click to expand...
I agree with Jimmy, politically.

Religiously, I feel that ALL babies should be aborted! That way they would have no chance whatsoever of failing God and going to Hell. I believe this is the ONLY way to guarantee your children go to heaven! Then, after the abortions, you petition God for forgiveness, say you are sorry and join your aborted children in heaven when you die.:dancefool :dancefool :dancefool :dancefool
 
jay28

jay28

EOG Dedicated
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

Step 1, stop rape and shit from this country

Step 2, stop abortion


We can't get rid of the second one if we have high rape rate in this country.
 
ZZ CREAM

ZZ CREAM

EOG Master
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

jay28 said:
Step 1, stop rape and shit from this country

Step 2, stop abortion


We can't get rid of the second one if we have high rape rate in this country.
Click to expand...
We could get rid of the first one if we used the second one a whole lot more!:dancefool :dancefool :dancefool :dancefool
 
jay28

jay28

EOG Dedicated
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

ZZ CREAM said:
We could get rid of the first one if we used the second one a whole lot more!:dancefool :dancefool :dancefool :dancefool
Click to expand...


Na, that will increase the first one even more my friend.

And increase in AIDs and other diseases.
 
jay28

jay28

EOG Dedicated
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

ZZ CREAM said:
Huh? I don't understand.
Click to expand...

The second one more depends on the first one. If the second one increase, rapists would consider it ok to do it because there is an option of the second one.
 
ZZ CREAM

ZZ CREAM

EOG Master
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

Just how many women do you think get raped and pregnated every year in the US?
 
Shortbus

Shortbus

1
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

Here's my take:

I'm anti abortion because I believe you're taking a life, HOWEVER...

I am a man, and I have absolutely zero understanding of what a WOMAN feels or goes through or what it's like to have a baby growing inside me.

Because I cannot put myself in that position, it's really hard for me to tell someone else what they can or can't do and why they can or can't do it.

It's like marijuana. If you want to campaign so heavily against it, you should have to do it once or twice. If you do, you might change your opinion.

Now, I am PRO CHOICE in cases such as rape, incest, and child molestation and maybe some other cases where there is severe birth defects, and whatnot.

Partial birth abortion...I see no reason for this.

Now, here's where the debate gets tricky:

When is a person a person? When does a baby have a soul? AH, here comes religion!

Scientifically, you would have to err on the side of the baby, saying that if you can't prove they aren't alive or don't have feelings, or a soul, or a heartbeat, etc., then you can't kill them.

A baby has a heartbeat when it's about the size of a dang gummy bear. Obviously, at that time the organs aren't fully developed, and there's no way it could survive on it's own.

But if you want to talk about surviving on it's own, let's talk about a one year old baby. Can a one year old human baby survive on it's own? NO WAY. What about two years old? I don't think so. What about three? I think a three year old could survive without parents, but it would still need to be around other adult humans.

If you wait until after the first trimester, WHY are you just now deciding to have an abortion? Why not allow it until right after the first trimester? If you want to have one, you need to have it right after you get pregnant.
 
jay28

jay28

EOG Dedicated
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

The rate of getting rape in the streets of US is quite high my friend. As far as getting rape and get pregnant, it's the high possibility.

Here are statistics

FBI - Crime in the US, 2002 - Crime Index Offenses Reported
Trend

<table summary="Crime Index-Trend" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr><td colspan="3" bgcolor="#000000" height="1">
</td> </tr> <tr> <th id="un_0">
Year​
</th> <th id="un_1">
Number of offenses​
</th> <th id="un_2">
Rate per 100,000
inhabitants​
</th> </tr> <tr><td colspan="3" bgcolor="#000000" height="1">
</td></tr> <tr> <th id="un_3" headers="un_0">2001</th> <td headers="un_3 un_1">90,863</td> <td headers="un_3 un_2">31.8</td> </tr> <tr> <th id="un_4" headers="un_0">2002</th> <td headers="un_4 un_1">95,136</td> <td headers="un_4 un_2">33.0</td> </tr> <tr> <th id="un_5" headers="un_0">Percent change</th> <td headers="un_5 un_1">+4.7</td> <td headers="un_5 un_2">+3.6</td> </tr> <tr><td colspan="3" bgcolor="#000000" height="1">
</td></tr> </tbody></table>​
National Volume, Trends, and Rates
 
ZZ CREAM

ZZ CREAM

EOG Master
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

jay28 said:
The rate of getting rape in the streets of US is quite high my friend. As far as getting rape and get pregnant, it's the high possibility.

Here are statistics

FBI - Crime in the US, 2002 - Crime Index Offenses Reported
Trend


<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 summary="Crime Index-Trend" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#000000 colSpan=3 height=1>

​
</TD> </TR><TR><TH id=un_0>
Year

​
</TH><TH id=un_1>
Number of offenses​


</TH><TH id=un_2>
Rate per 100,000

inhabitants​

</TH></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#000000 colSpan=3 height=1>

</TD></TR><TR><TH id=un_3 headers=un_0>2001</TH><TD headers="un_3 un_1">90,863</TD><TD headers="un_3 un_2">31.8</TD></TR><TR><TH id=un_4 headers=un_0>2002</TH><TD headers="un_4 un_1">95,136</TD><TD headers="un_4 un_2">33.0</TD></TR><TR><TH id=un_5 headers=un_0>Percent change</TH><TD headers="un_5 un_1">+4.7</TD><TD headers="un_5 un_2">+3.6</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#000000 colSpan=3 height=1>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

National Volume, Trends, and Rates
Click to expand...
So, how many women a year get pregnated through rape?
 
jay28

jay28

EOG Dedicated
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

By applying the 5% pregnancy rate to 64,080 women, RAINN estimates that there were up to 3,204 pregnancies as a result of rape.

Pregnancies Resulting from Rape | Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network
Click to expand...


I believe the first one should be taken care right away. Some people are really sick, man.
Medical estimates of a 5% pregnancy rate are for one-time, unprotected sexual intercourse. Some victimizations may include multiple incidents of intercourse.

NCVS does not measure victimizations of Americans age 12 or younger. Rapes of these young people could result in pregnancies that are not accounted for in RAINN estimates.
Click to expand...
 
jay28

jay28

EOG Dedicated
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

ZZ CREAM said:
Do babies automatically go to heaven in the Islamic Faith Jay?
Click to expand...

Yes, it's been said that in the judgement day, the kid who died giving birth will not enter heaven until he takes their parents with them. He will ask God to forgive their parents because he didn't had them in this life.
 
ZZ CREAM

ZZ CREAM

EOG Master
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

jay28 said:
Yes, it's been said that in the judgement day, the kid who died giving birth will not enter heaven until he takes their parents with them. He will ask God to forgive their parents because he didn't had them in this life.
Click to expand...
So, like Christianity, abortion would be good for the child and his soul......meaning he has no chance of going to hell if he is aborted, correct?
 
jay28

jay28

EOG Dedicated
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

ZZ CREAM said:
So, like Christianity, abortion would be good for the child and his soul......meaning he has no chance of going to hell if he is aborted, correct?
Click to expand...

You are right zz. Abortion is forbidden in Islam in any case too.
 
jay28

jay28

EOG Dedicated
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

It's like killing a person too. In Quran it's say that don't kill your kids, it's God who provides food and protection. There is not a specific punishment set for this crime. But, they would be ask in the judgement day for this sin.
 
ZZ CREAM

ZZ CREAM

EOG Master
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

jay28 said:
It's like killing a person too. In Quran it's say that don't kill your kids, it's God who provides food and protection. There is not a specific punishment set for this crime. But, they would be ask in the judgement day for this sin.
Click to expand...
Can you be forgiven your sins in Islam like Christianity?
 
Mr Fury

Mr Fury

2
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

gofer5 said:
So you feel that abortion is just more or less another form of Birth Control. FYI My girlfriend is pro-life and consider's abortion MURDER as do I. And we will never condone MURDER!!
Click to expand...
I don't see anywhere in my statement that I said abortion is another
form of birth control. Personally I feel that if a woman uses abortion for birth control then she should be put in a mental institutution.
So your gf is against abortion, good for her, thats her choice and
I respect it. If she were to decide otherwise I would equally
respect that opinion.
But tell me, why don't all you anti abortion people go out and
adopt all these kids that need a home? There are many kids in foster
homes that need loving parents.
The anti abortion crowd is full of it. They will kill doctors and nurses
to stop an abortion. Thats real smart.
I could go on but it would just make your case even weaker.
 
dirty

dirty

EOG Master
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

Jimmy Hoffa said:
I honestly don't care about the abortion issue at all.

My only beef about it is that Medicaid pays for thousands of abortions each year. Medicaid is funded by the taxpayers and should not be used by low income receipients as birth control.

This is strictly a monetary issue for me. If a woman wants an abortion, fine. She can pay for it herself.
Click to expand...



I agree with Hoffa. I support abortion, but it should be privately funded. Nothing after 3 months, no partial Birth Abortions.

Devil and shortbus had good posts as well. This is a complex issue and is one that should not be taken Lightly.
 
ZZ CREAM

ZZ CREAM

EOG Master
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

Mr Fury said:
I don't see anywhere in my statement that I said abortion is another
form of birth control. Personally I feel that if a woman uses abortion for birth control then she should be put in a mental institutution.
So your gf is against abortion, good for her, thats her choice and
I respect it. If she were to decide otherwise I would equally
respect that opinion.
But tell me, why don't all you anti abortion people go out and
adopt all these kids that need a home? There are many kids in foster
homes that need loving parents.
The anti abortion crowd is full of it. They will kill doctors and nurses
to stop an abortion. Thats real smart.
I could go on but it would just make your case even weaker.
Click to expand...
I can't believe we agree......well said !:dancefool :dancefool :dancefool :dancefool
 
jay28

jay28

EOG Dedicated
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

ZZ CREAM said:
So, then at least abortion is good for the kids aborted and their souls.
Click to expand...

Well it's a sin. But the girl who gets raped and have the baby in her belly. People might say it's not his fault and why you would want to kill him. It's all about the trauma that she have to take with her. She would probably leave behind in her studies too. And when the kid raises, she have to explain it to him which is kinda bad for kid psychologically too. I believe personally, we can't stop the second one if we can't stop completely the first one.
 
ZZ CREAM

ZZ CREAM

EOG Master
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

Mr Fury said:
See ZZ, I'm not all bad.
:cheers
Click to expand...
Well, you're correct on something.....that's a great first step toward enlightenment and becoming a true American Hero, a Liberal!:dancefool :dancefool :dancefool :dancefool :dancefool :dancefool
 
Mr Fury

Mr Fury

2
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

ZZ CREAM said:
Well, you're correct on something.....that's a great first step toward enlightenment and becoming a true American Hero, a Liberal!:dancefool :dancefool :dancefool :dancefool :dancefool :dancefool
Click to expand...
Damn I almost punked. I have some liberal ideas
but I never will be a government spending liberal.
Thats one good thing about abortion. It keeps the
welfare roles lower.
 
milwaukeemike

milwaukeemike

2
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

i was very anti-abortion before reading "freakonomics".
completely changed my mind, realizing that crime in the u.s. is down 50% almost solely because of roe vs. wade.
now i am very much IN FAVOR of abortion, if those kids were that unloved and poor in the first place in most cases they are probably better off not being born. and as a society as sad as it sounds we are better off without them.

remember all those gangs in the early 90s and how it was getting ridiculously dangerous to even be near major cities? i certainly remember that time in milwaukee and now it is a heck of a lot more peaceful and enjoyable. there are still angry young men around of all types (white, black, hispanic) but there are a lot less of them than 15 years ago.
 
ZZ CREAM

ZZ CREAM

EOG Master
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

Mr Fury said:
Damn I almost punked. I have some liberal ideas
but I never will be a government spending liberal.
.
Click to expand...
Wow! Me either. Welfare and unemployment and all other 'entitlements should never be for more than 6 months. After that, workers would have to show up for trash details and CCC type work. The only problem with Republicans under george Bush is that they have never seen an increase in spending they didn't like.:dancefool :dancefool :dancefool
 
Mr Fury

Mr Fury

2
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

ZZ CREAM said:
Bush is that they have never seen an increase in spending they didn't like.
Click to expand...
Not totally true, but I am afraid that you are more right than wrong.
That is why I am not a W fan.
His dad lied with read my lips. He gave in to the liberals in congress
and cut a deal.
So I figure the apple doesn't drop far.
I dislike most of the republicans currently in congress because
they act like freakin demorats.
Man what I would give to see some Ronald Reagan policies
on the demoestic side of washington politics.
 
Jimmy Hoffa

Jimmy Hoffa

1
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

ZZ CREAM said:
Wow! Me either. Welfare and unemployment and all other 'entitlements should never be for more than 6 months. After that, workers would have to show up for trash details and CCC type work. The only problem with Republicans under george Bush is that they have never seen an increase in spending they didn't like.
Click to expand...
We're on the same page here for the most part ZZ.

I see it this way... Elderly and disabled Americans get the assistance, everyone else WORKS.

Unemployment is a little different because we pay into that, 26 weeks maximum assistance.
 
KTBKRUSHER

KTBKRUSHER

2
Re: TIME FOR A CIVIL DEBATE...FIRST ISSUE...ABORTION

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completely ludicrous comments..lumping all together and that is nuts..

your views oh how you stand are your choice but you cannot seriously say all anti abortion people want to blow up clinics
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The anti abortion crowd is full of it. They will kill doctors and nurses
to stop an abortion. Thats real smart.
I could go on but it would just make your case even weaker.
​
 
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