What's the best way to play craps?
- Thread starter Wade
- Start date
cheapseats
EOG Master
Yes, and take odds. Then play the come bet taking max odds up to 3 #'s. Stand around and pray for 1 of the 4 #'s you have. Do not press any wager until you've recouped original amounts. Then up 1 unit each time you hit.
Every craps bet carries a negative expectation.
Steer clear of the craps table.
Steer clear of the craps table.
mrbowling300
EOG Dedicated
there was a period of time when I played craps. JK is correct, negative expectation. I would bet the pass line, full odds, two come bets, full odds, once that was established, the dice would always land on 7.
You can always try learning dice setting (dice control) as described by Stanford Wong, et al.
Article below by the Wizard of Odds:
Dice Setting (wizardofodds.com)
Article below by the Wizard of Odds:
Dice Setting (wizardofodds.com)
Call me a "dice control" skeptic.
Brayden11
EOG Dedicated
Money behind the pass or don’t pass is true odds. Playing behind it is one the best bets on the floor.
Understood.
Too bad there's an initial bet required.
Some aggressive Las Vegas casinos like the Horseshoe and a few establishments on Boulder Highway offered 100x odds back in the day.
I believe the Cromwell offers 100x odds on their craps tables right now.
Viejo Dinosaur
EOG Master
Craps requires a big bankroll....the swings are enormous.....
I broke in at Sams Town back in the day dealing craps...that was back when all the 21 dealers were women....hardly any women were in the dice pit....
I broke in at Sams Town back in the day dealing craps...that was back when all the 21 dealers were women....hardly any women were in the dice pit....
Brayden11
EOG Dedicated
The little joint on the Strip with the midgets bar tending was always go to game for me. Cheap and fair and a good crowd to gamble and have fun with. $5 on the pass line and up to a 100X behind but as VD points out you have to have a decent roll and except the wild swings. Not for the faint of heart unless you have some gamble in you. Those days have passed me by and only negative play for me is horses but I love the sport.
Patrick McIrish
OCCams raZOR
I love dice but as mentioned it's a losing proposition. I play maybe once a year at most.
BTW wasn't there a big wager on dice control in the past? Was it Wong against Fezzik?
Seems like there was a very public battle about this and the side representing dice control came out on top.
Don't quote me.
I liked Binions back in the day, you could bet a dollar on the pass line and a hundy behind it.
The buck on the pass line makes it -EV but 100X's behind shaves it down very very close.
BTW wasn't there a big wager on dice control in the past? Was it Wong against Fezzik?
Seems like there was a very public battle about this and the side representing dice control came out on top.
Don't quote me.
I liked Binions back in the day, you could bet a dollar on the pass line and a hundy behind it.
The buck on the pass line makes it -EV but 100X's behind shaves it down very very close.
jimmythegreek
The opening odds start here
I play the pass line but only back an average of 2x odds. Not crazy about the 4 as the point. Just a number I have had bad luck on so only back it 1x or 1.5x. Ill put 2.5x on 6 and 8 and sometimes 9 or 10 if up big. Play only one come bet and back it the same way, and occasionally hunch the field. If luck is hot, maybe a 3 way hard way now and then.
I've got the title for Birdie's new book, "How to Lose Friends and Infuriate People."
fifty cint
EOG Dedicated
Theres nothing like a hot craps table....some epic rolls at Stardust(right before early NCAA tourney games started on Thursday am-missed the whole Arizona-Seton Hall game)
Held the dice for 55 minutes(I was told by stick guy)
at The Cal...won a fortune....didn't realize if you held dice for an hour would have gotten a plaque on the wall over Freemont...
Great roll at Rio with a few hookers helping out.it went very well....A few years ago Silverton had some memorable moments(until some white trash nascar guys ruined everything)
Lots of fun.Some tough ones too but I don't remember those LOL
Held the dice for 55 minutes(I was told by stick guy)
at The Cal...won a fortune....didn't realize if you held dice for an hour would have gotten a plaque on the wall over Freemont...
Great roll at Rio with a few hookers helping out.it went very well....A few years ago Silverton had some memorable moments(until some white trash nascar guys ruined everything)
Lots of fun.Some tough ones too but I don't remember those LOL
Good stories, FIFTY.
Yep. Wong offered up to $100k that he and Little Joe could throw significantly fewer 7s than expected in 500 rolls. Fezzik took the other side of the bet for a smaller amount.
There is a one of six chance of rolling a 7 so an average of 83.3 sevens were expected in 500 rolls. They agreed to the OVER/UNDER # at 79.5. Wong and Joe shot 74 thus winning the bet.
More info can be found at :
A Look at Wong on Dice - Gambling With An Edge (lasvegasadvisor.com)
and
Gambling With an Edge guest Stanford Wong on dice control - YouTube
Bob, do you accept 500 rolls as proof of dice control?
Furthermore, you must assume the story is legit and not fabricated to sell books or videos.
I would use a sample size larger than 1000 (at least) if I were betting the NO dice control.
This is back in the day (2004) of the Bj21 and the Sharp Sports Betting (SSB) forum run by Wong (John Ferguson). I made a few posts there. As you probably remember, he was a contestant on the Stardust Invitational (2000 & 2001). The story got a lot of publicity so I would guess its legit, but it was done in part to publicize/sell Wong's book.
John Ferguson apparently created an Asian-sounding pseudonym like Stanford Wong to improve book sales.
Ferguson assumed the market perceives the exotic-sounding Stanford Wong as smarter than a common fellow named John Ferguson.
Possible evidence that his dice control story could be fictitious as well?
Ferguson assumed the market perceives the exotic-sounding Stanford Wong as smarter than a common fellow named John Ferguson.
Possible evidence that his dice control story could be fictitious as well?
Almost Allright
GO Bucks!!!
Back in the day I don’t think you lived life until you rolled the bones at 2am on a Saturday night at the Horseshoe.
Patrick McIrish
OCCams raZOR
The "story" is real. I remember them fighting over everything from dice to table conditions and so on.
Pretty sure it was done at a public place and people were invited to watch and they did as outside observers.
Good logic though, since Wong is a fictitious name it stands to reason all his pursuits/claims are bogus as well.
Sigh.
Pretty sure it was done at a public place and people were invited to watch and they did as outside observers.
Good logic though, since Wong is a fictitious name it stands to reason all his pursuits/claims are bogus as well.
Sigh.
THE FACTSMAN
EOG Addicted
passline............max odds look for a 10x odds game or better
bet the outside numbers............press until you get laryngitis
never pay up front to buy the 4 and 10
get 20 minutes of hot dice you win a million dollars
be prepared to lose 9 out of 10 times
but when you connect.............its life changing.
never bet a crap check.......................
you never want to make a bet you dont want to win.
if your looking to make a score
thats how you play
if your looking to just throw $100 away for fun
place some numbers and say a few hail mary's hope you last long
my thinking is i'll take a 50k stab..............most i can lose per session. i like to do do 4-5 sessions per trip max
upside is....................whenever you feel its enough quit and go home
cracked 7 figures many times
but overall i'm basically up or down a few hundred k the last 5 years .
bet the outside numbers............press until you get laryngitis
never pay up front to buy the 4 and 10
get 20 minutes of hot dice you win a million dollars
be prepared to lose 9 out of 10 times
but when you connect.............its life changing.
never bet a crap check.......................
you never want to make a bet you dont want to win.
if your looking to make a score
thats how you play
if your looking to just throw $100 away for fun
place some numbers and say a few hail mary's hope you last long
my thinking is i'll take a 50k stab..............most i can lose per session. i like to do do 4-5 sessions per trip max
upside is....................whenever you feel its enough quit and go home
cracked 7 figures many times
but overall i'm basically up or down a few hundred k the last 5 years .
Viejo Dinosaur
EOG Master
I have seen Factsman play dice.....he is telling the truth......
“Same bet” is not in his vocabulary....
“Same bet” is not in his vocabulary....
brians
EOG Dedicated
No Pass for me.
I lie in wait for a warm shooter. After five non-7 post-come-out rolls, I buy the 4 & 10 ($50 a piece) and place the 6 & 8 ($60 a piece) for three rolls only. I'm asking to dodge the inevitable red three times, that's it. After those three rolls, my Buy & Place bets come down.
House edge on the commission only buy bet on the 4/10 is 1.67% (vs a straight place bet on the 4/10 which is 6.67%).
I get dirty looks from the boxman. My action doesn't get rated. If the house doesn't like me then I feel like I'm doing something right.
I'm a lifetime loser at craps.
I lie in wait for a warm shooter. After five non-7 post-come-out rolls, I buy the 4 & 10 ($50 a piece) and place the 6 & 8 ($60 a piece) for three rolls only. I'm asking to dodge the inevitable red three times, that's it. After those three rolls, my Buy & Place bets come down.
House edge on the commission only buy bet on the 4/10 is 1.67% (vs a straight place bet on the 4/10 which is 6.67%).
I get dirty looks from the boxman. My action doesn't get rated. If the house doesn't like me then I feel like I'm doing something right.
I'm a lifetime loser at craps.
Foresthill
EOG Addicted
From Ferguson himself:
He attended Stanford University so that's where the first name comes from. He decided on the "Asian" last name, because it sounded mysterious.
He wishes in retrospect that he would have published his books with his real name -- John Ferguson -- and played with a pseudonym, instead of the other way around.
Since he played under his real name, he published under the pseudonym so as not to alert unsuspecting "pits" that he was an advantage player.
Contrary to your concluding question, that in no way indicates the information in his blackjack books and sports betting book is false. So why would his views on dice control be false?
Any edge in dice control, which is very difficult to master, is small and may only cut down or eliminate the house edge on pass/don't pass bets in dice.
Also, why would Ferguson make up his view on dice control based on his observations? To what benefit? He's not a casino employee, so lying about dice control wouldn't benefit him as a casino employee trying to lead the "suckers" to slaughter.
WildBill
2
I saw a live game demonstration of dice control and walked away a believer. Just like the bet mentioned here, it wasn't on the idea that you could make the dice roll a certain number, but that you could slightly change the odds into the shooters favor. In this case it was intended to eliminate a bad number. Like if you had a point of 9, getting a "1" on one of the dies would make it impossible to win on that roll. I was told who the shooter would be because he always shot from the same position and then what to look for. I was also asked to just bet modestly on the game and not make it obvious what was expected. I was told what precisely to look for and the shooter was quite successful at it. It was a real skill that surely was practiced for a long time, I don't see why dice control couldn't be a real thing.
WildBill
2
Was probably just 50-60 rolls, but there were a few distinct things about it. Stuff you'd never think about unless told to. Maybe the really experienced craps pit people might sense something after watching someone, but I suspect they don't hit the same casinos and shifts too often.
Did the "few distinct things" involve cheating?
Like doctoring the dice.
Like doctoring the dice.
As JK and McIrish said, Horseshoe was 100x at one time. Many now are 3,4,5x depending on the number. I look for 10x. Most of the time I'll just take three numbers with full odds (pass line bet followed by two come line bets). Close to even money if you take full odds.
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