NFL Coaching Dumps

Squarepants

Squarepants

2
Patrick McIrish said:
Correct. "You are what your record says you are."

Not "You are what your record says minus the GOAT or any other player we wish to pretend was never on your team".

Kind of silly.

Just curious who are some of the better coaches in the NFL today since BeliCheat is a fraud?
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It's not silly. It's history. It's fact.

The guy doesn't have a winning record without the greatest QB of all time. That is his record when you're looking at hiring him to coach a team without a Brady at QB.

And he's not necessarily a fraud -- I didn't use that word -- he's just not what he's hyped up to be by the talking heads.

I'm not here to canvass and grade all the head coaches and potential coaches. I just laid out why I wouldn't hire this guy.

But, yeah, like I said in the other post, fine, I join the chorus of "Hire Belichick. He's the GOAT." And then I can selectively fade his side when the line gets steamed by all the mystique. I wouldn't be in this conversation if we were still inside contest season.
 
FairWarning

FairWarning

Bells Beer Connoisseur
Squarepants said:
It's not silly. It's history. It's fact.

The guy doesn't have a winning record without the greatest QB of all time. That is his record when you're looking at hiring him to coach a team without a Brady at QB.

And he's not necessarily a fraud -- I didn't use that word -- he's just not what he's hyped up to be by the talking heads.

I'm not here to canvass and grade all the head coaches and potential coaches. I just laid out why I wouldn't hire this guy.

But, yeah, like I said in the other post, fine, I join the chorus of "Hire Belichick. He's the GOAT." And then I can selectively fade his side when the line gets steamed by all the mystique. I wouldn't be in this conversation if we were still inside contest season.
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Really the only team that could win fast with him is Seattle. I would be stunned if he went to teams like Wash or Atl. Then again, Lombardi finished his coaching career in Washington.
 
Squarepants

Squarepants

2
Patrick McIrish said:
Good question.

Also in the BB and TB thing the reality is if Brady goes to almost any other franchise (maybe ANY other organization) he probably never is the GOAT.

BB takes the 7th rounder, turns him into the greatest of all time and now it's used against him, LOL.

He isn't allowed to count wins that Brady played in......

Only in forumville.

We move on.
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"We move on."

Oh, I knew that was coming.

You want to talk about "silly."

Next it will be some line about leaving the money for the hooker on the table top and you're done and leaving, suggesting that the other poster is something like the hooker.

Reminds me of that Seinfeld episode where Costanza got this total man crush on a passing interest of Elaine, who really was kind of a doofus, but he had all these sayings like "step off," including at the end when he told Costanza to "step off."

The show was ridiculing the "mimbo" -- the "step off" guy with all of his sayings -- as much as the Costanza character.

Just silly. Misplaced -- and really unnecessary to the conversation -- ego.
 
kane

kane

EOG master
FairWarning said:
Really the only team that could win fast with him is Seattle. I would be stunned if he went to teams like Wash or Atl. Then again, Lombardi finished his coaching career in Washington.
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The Hoodie is chasing Shula, I don't know how many more years he wants to coach, but I have to think he'll look for a spot where he can win right away, if McCarthy shits the bed this weekend, Dallas could be in play
 
P

Patrick McIrish

OCCams raZOR
Squarepants said:
It's not silly. It's history.
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No, the history isn't going to be some cherry picked "fact" about what his record would be IF we could wave a magic wand and eliminate his franchise QB.

The history will be he led probably the greatest dynasty in NFL history and won 6 SB's as a HC and 2 more as a DC.......

Eight SB wins as a HC/coordinator and too many records to even begin to start typing out here on the forum.

I'm not even a big BeliCheat fan but most of this is pretty absurd.
 
P

Patrick McIrish

OCCams raZOR
Squarepants said:
"We move on."

Oh, I knew that was coming.

You want to talk about "silly."

Next it will be some line about leaving the money for the hooker on the table top and you're done and leaving, suggesting that the other poster is something like the hooker.

Reminds me of that Seinfeld episode where Costanza got this total man crush on a passing interest of Elaine, who really was kind of a doofus, but he had all these sayings like "step off," including at the end when he told Costanza to "step off."

The show was ridiculing the "mimbo" -- the "step off" guy with all of his sayings -- as much as the Costanza character.

Just silly. Misplaced -- and really unnecessary to the conversation -- ego.
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Glad you could get that off your chest.

I tend to rely on content rather than insults in these debates......

I don't blame you though, carry on.
 
Squarepants

Squarepants

2
Not surrendering, that was a quip.

We're just making the same points back and forth -- me, that his record without Brady is relevant to this hiring cycle, you, that you don't think one properly can look at it like that.

To paraphrase the line from The Undefeated, the conversation just kind of dried up.

I don't see any real reason to -- keep -- doing an "is" "is not" debate back and forth.

I wouldn't hire the guy, and I've explained why.

If that doesn't persuade someone else, oh well. If a team hires him, I'll keep looking for select spots to fade his side.
 
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Heim

Heim

EOG Master
McVey might have saved his job with their playoff run. I know he's signed thru 2026, but his rah, rah stuff got old with many guys.

I was shocked reading he's making 14mil per year. Geez one SB win shoots you to the stratosphere. 💫
 
Heim

Heim

EOG Master
Wow, they didn't waste any time replacing Belichick. They were waiting for the right time, holding the Mayo 😀
 
B

boston massacre

EOG Master
Heim said:
Wow, they didn't waste any time replacing Belichick. They were waiting for the right time, holding the Mayo 😀
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That Was The Unannounced Plan a Couple Years Ago.

Kraft Paid Mayo, A Couple Years Back, While He Was Still a Patriots Asst. Coach , Lots Of Extra Cash, NOT To Interview For Any NFL HC Jobs Around The League.

Big Age Difference Between Belichick and Mayo. 71 /37.

Kraft Looked Far Ahead, and Knew Who He Wanted To Replace Belchick , When Such Time Arrived.

Kraft Also Knew , That To Keep Mayo From Leaving and Taking a HC Job With Another Team , He Had To Put Up or Shut Up.

Kraft Put Up. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
 
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B

boston massacre

EOG Master
Squarepants said:
Belichick without Brady at QB is 81-99, for a .450 win percentage -- including the year with Cassel in for Brady.

Without the fortuity of Brady stepping in in Week 2 of the 2001 season, BB's second year at NE, he very likely would have been subject to the same typical coaching carousel timing. That is, he would have had another few years of mediocre performance before being booted like he was before in Cleveland, after a .450 record over that five years.

Much like his .433 win percentage in NE over the four years after TB left for TB.

Without the GOAT, he very well may have been just a footnote in Wikipedia, rather than a lauded GOAT himself.

I'd look for someone else, and let Belichick be a gruff, rude old man on his own time -- or at least on one of those NFL talking heads shows that I don't watch.
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Those are The Facts.

In Team Sports , When We Talk Great Coaches, are There Any Out There, Who Did Not Coach a Great Player ?
 
Squarepants

Squarepants

2
No doubt . . . and Belichick no doubt is a first ballot Hall of Famer, as -- for that purpose -- you clearly do not parse between sundry portions in their career and/or who else was part of the team.

But all those great coaches' careers ultimately came to an end, and not at a time of their choosing typically (I'm thinking of, e.g., Shula and Landry), as their W-L records tailed off toward the end.

I personally wouldn't hire him here in 2024 -- although it's an academic exercise, as not only are none of us involved in HC hiring decisions, none of our opinions here are even considered in that process.

Somebody likely will hire him -- many owners like retreading head coaches as well as making big name splashes. And then we'll see how that team fares going forward, one way or the other.

Again, as a bettor, which is not an academic exercise, I'll be looking to fade that team in select spots, if I believe that a particular line is based more on backward-looking hype than current reality.
 
railbird

railbird

EOG Master
Squarepants said:
It's not silly. It's history. It's fact.

The guy doesn't have a winning record without the greatest QB of all time. That is his record when you're looking at hiring him to coach a team without a Brady at QB.

And he's not necessarily a fraud -- I didn't use that word -- he's just not what he's hyped up to be by the talking heads.

I'm not here to canvass and grade all the head coaches and potential coaches. I just laid out why I wouldn't hire this guy.

But, yeah, like I said in the other post, fine, I join the chorus of "Hire Belichick. He's the GOAT." And then I can selectively fade his side when the line gets steamed by all the mystique. I wouldn't be in this conversation if we were still inside contest season.
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Brady not the goat, Was on great teams. Marino was better, facts
 
B

boston massacre

EOG Master
mr merlin said:
You cant win them all but yea, they should have won 1 of those 2 for sure.
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How About a QB, Appearing in 10 Super Bowls , and Winning 7 .

You Think it's a Pretty Good Resume ?

How About a Winning % of 70 % in 10 Appearances ?

Do You Know Any NFL Player Who Got To 10 ?

Do You Know Any NFL Player With 7 Rings ?
 
mr merlin

mr merlin

EOG Master
To me the most impressive thing about brady is those super bowl wins cam over a long time period and except for him the teams were totally different in most of them.

Bradshaw won with the same great team, aikman won with the same team, elway won with basically the same team, even manning did. What brady did at tampa was incredible,
 
M

MrTop

EOG Master
kane said:
The Hoodie is chasing Shula, I don't know how many more years he wants to coach, but I have to think he'll look for a spot where he can win right away, if McCarthy shits the bed this weekend, Dallas could be in play
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I would like to see it happen but will jones let Belichick be in control ?
 
P

Patrick McIrish

OCCams raZOR
boston massacre said:
How About a QB, Appearing in 10 Super Bowls , and Winning 7 .

You Think it's a Pretty Good Resume ?

How About a Winning % of 70 % in 10 Appearances ?

Do You Know Any NFL Player Who Got To 10 ?

Do You Know Any NFL Player With 7 Rings ?
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Not to mention doing all that with a bunch of dumb fucks coaching him!!
 
P

Patrick McIrish

OCCams raZOR
boston massacre said:
In Team Sports , When We Talk Great Coaches, are There Any Out There, Who Did Not Coach a Great Player ?
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Yeah the best way to judge coaches is how well they can do with a team of average Joe's they never get full potential out of.

If they have the ability to turn them into GREAT players that should be held against them!

If you draft a QB in the 7th round, a guy team after team after team after team passes on round after round after round after round.......

And he turns into the GOAT it had nothing to do with you! In fact the winning you do is solely because of the QB and should be held against your record, LOL.

That's just a "FACT".

Brady was great IN SPITE of BeliCheat, not because of him! He had zero to do with his development and career!

Another "FACT".

Plenty of sharp opinions in this thread from no doubt students of the game.

We move on.
 
B

boston massacre

EOG Master
Squarepants said:
Belichick without Brady at QB is 81-99, for a .450 win percentage -- including the year with Cassel in for Brady.

Without the fortuity of Brady stepping in in Week 2 of the 2001 season, BB's second year at NE, he very likely would have been subject to the same typical coaching carousel timing. That is, he would have had another few years of mediocre performance before being booted like he was before in Cleveland, after a .450 record over that five years.

Much like his .433 win percentage in NE over the four years after TB left for TB.

Without the GOAT, he very well may have been just a footnote in Wikipedia, rather than a lauded GOAT himself.

I'd look for someone else, and let Belichick be a gruff, rude old man on his own time -- or at least on one of those NFL talking heads shows that I don't watch.
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Do You Have Phil Jackson's NBA Coaching Record , in Games Where Michael Jordan Didn't Play For Him ?
 
Squarepants

Squarepants

2
Hey, Boston, yeah, "sorry, I don't have info handy," lol . . . I don't pay much attention to the NBA.

But didn't Phil Jackson have a fair amount of success without Jordan -- maybe not as many championships, but a winning record ex-Jordan?

But I wouldn't be surprised either way, as I don't follow the NBA; and Phil Jackson's been retired for something like 12 or 13 years as best as I can tell on the fly.
 
railbird

railbird

EOG Master
Patrick McIrish said:
No, the history isn't going to be some cherry picked "fact" about what his record would be IF we could wave a magic wand and eliminate his franchise QB.

The history will be he led probably the greatest dynasty in NFL history and won 6 SB's as a HC and 2 more as a DC.......

Eight SB wins as a HC/coordinator and too many records to even begin to start typing out here on the forum.

I'm not even a big BeliCheat fan but most of this is pretty absurd.
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people forget about those 2 with the giants
 
B

boston massacre

EOG Master
homie1975 said:
Phil won rings without Michael and Kobe, but Michael and Kobe never won rings without Phil.

TB12 won a ring without BB, but BB never won a ring without TB12.
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Phil won rings without Michael and Kobe

Not True.

Never Won a Ring Without 1 or The Other.

He Won 3 in a Row in Chicago with Michael.

Michael Left for 2 Years To Play Baseball.

Chicago Didn't Win The Title in Those 2 Years.

Michael Came Back To Chicago For 3 More Years and Chicago Won Another 3 in a Row With Jackson as HC.

Jackson Never Won a Laker Title Without Kobe on The Roster.

Jackson Had Both Kobe and Shaquille on The Roster For Some Of Those Laker Titles.
 
H

homie1975

EOG Addicted
boston massacre said:
Phil won rings without Michael and Kobe

Not True.

Never Won a Ring Without 1 or The Other.

He Won 3 in a Row in Chicago with Michael.

Michael Left for 2 Years To Play Baseball.

Chicago Didn't Win The Title in Those 2 Years.

Michael Came Back To Chicago For 3 More Years and Chicago Won Another 3 in a Row With Jackson as HC.

Jackson Never Won a Laker Title Without Kobe on The Roster.

Jackson Had Both Kobe and Shaquille on The Roster For Some Of Those Laker Titles.
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phil > bill b
 
Heim

Heim

EOG Master
With Belichick out there, I can't think Jerry won't let McCarthy go if they lose. Dallas is all in this year.
 
blueline

blueline

EOG Master
blueline said:
went looking for a price on Belichick to Dallas when I heard he was out @ NewEngland

VSiN mid-morning show had the same thought but what I didnt know was Belichick was openly praising Jerry Jones and his family some months ago
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was part of the field at +800....now still up at +400
 
P

pro analyser

EOG Dedicated
Heim said:
With Belichick out there, I can't think Jerry won't let McCarthy go if they lose. Dallas is all in this year.
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Doubt Jerry would hire Belichick,because he has always been about wanting all the credit, Ask jimmy(not the greek) why he got fired after winning two superbowls in a row
 
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