Should Schwarzenegger grant clemency to Tookie ??

[Sam Odom]

Many say L.A. will burn (BURN BABY BURN) if he doesn't.

Following a clemency hearing on Thursday, Schwarzenegger said the decision was a "heavy responsibility" and he was carefully studying all sides of the issue.

Granting clemency would be a risk for Schwarzenegger, weakened by a stinging loss on all his initiatives in a special election he called last month, as it could alienate his Republican party.

But it could help boost his flagging popularity in a state where Democrats are the largest party as he looks to reelection in 2006.

U.S. governors typically stay executions because of doubts over evidence in the case or fairness of the trial rather than because of redemption. Williams has said he did not commit the murders, but said he hurt many people as leader of the Crips gang in the Los Angeles area.

 

[Sam Odom]

LOS Angeles authorities fear rioting if California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger does not stop Wednesday's execution of killer Stanley Tookie Williams.

Police, schools and community groups have been told to prepare for violence if Schwarzenegger rejects Williams' final request for clemency.


The head of a Los Angeles authority said it had specific threats of violence if the founder of the notorious Crips gang is given a lethal injection on Wednesday in California's San Quentin prison.

"We have information there were planned and intentioned acts of violence that could occur in the wake of the decision or the execution planned for Stan Tookie Williams," said Robin Toma, executive director of the Los Angeles County Human Relations Commission.

Fearing a repeat of the 1992 race riots in which 52 died and hundreds were injured, Los Angeles Councillor Bernard Parks said police had told him they would be vigilant as Schwarzenegger considers his verdict. "All you need is a few to disrupt the entire city," Parks said.

 

[Mr. NBA]

Sammy, in a word... no:+signs9-1 .....I will save my rant on this subject.



GL,



MN

 

[Johnny Detroit]

if he can bring back the people who killed, sure!

if not, how about this.

they put him on a porch. one by one let families drive by who have lost relatives to drive by shootings involving the crips get one shot at him.

 

[dirty]

NOt a chance in Hell he should.....Those 4 families should get Justice.....They need to hang him on the Town Square at Noon the day he is to die and put it on PPV....Thugs, Rapist, Molestors and Murderers should not be shown Any Remorse..:+hitting-

 

[Mr. NBA]

NOt a chance in Hell he should.....Those 4 families should get Justice.....They need to hang him on the Town Square at Noon the day he is to die and put it on PPV....Thugs, Rapist, Molestors and Murderers should not be shown Any Remorse..:+hitting-

They should have done this 20 years ago:hung

 

[Sam Odom]

If Tookie a black guy is juiced all hell will break out! Repub Gov & Prez dont you know.

 

[muskatel]

Sam --

Took said he was sorry for his Crip involvement & denies any killings. Isn't his time served - and a sincere apology - enough?

 

[The General]

I dunno. That is Gods job.

 

[The Seeker]

Very tough decision.
The answer depends on your view of capital punishment.
Personally I agree that some people deserve the ultimate punishment (in extreme cases only, with agravated circumstances, multiple homicides, extreme predjudice, etc. and that in those cases the punishment should be swift).
Cases like this give the opposing view much fuel, and rightfully so. There are rare cases in which an absolute menace to society can rehabilitate and can actually provide some positive influence to troubled youth (although this is RARE). This guy has spent much time trying to rehabilitate gang youth and keep them from making the same mistakes he did.
If my statement regarding swift punishment for these types of criminals was actually carried out in this instance, there may have been some kids that would not have the chance to learn from one of thier own that chose the wrong path. He may have saved some kids (and potential victims) lives by his work.
If his actions since his incarceration are taken into consideration, he can no longer be considered a menace. He should probably be stayed and allowed to spend the rest of his days in prison to continue helping others.

 

[muskatel]

The system doesn't work. It's all about doing the politically correct thing. Arnold won't fry Took. Just part of the bigger system.

Democrats and Republicans hate each other. I don't ever see a time when anyone will ever agree to anything. It will take a financial, economic, or war to bring parties together to resolve any issues.

Nothing gets done in the good ole USA because of such hatred. If it's not the gays, the blacks, the honkeys, the hispanics, the Native Americans, the military, the Jews, the Catholics, the anti-gun crew, the pro-gun crew, the pro-Bible crew, the pro-abortion, the anit-abortion, the anti-military crew, the pro-military crew, the pro/anti Social Security crews, the Medicare crews, then it's something else.

Everyone hates each other. Everyone only wants what's best for them. Borrow money to pay for whatever feels good today. Chindia (China/India) is where the $$$ is being made hand over fist.

Debt to the Penny for US Citizens:


Current Amount
12/08/2005 $8,131,033,535,598.31

Current Month
12/07/2005 $8,121,651,809,807.04
12/06/2005 $8,122,710,788,511.92
12/05/2005 $8,119,496,424,139.25
12/02/2005 $8,118,319,301,298.54
12/01/2005 $8,107,952,560,719.68

PriorMonths
11/30/2005 $8,092,322,205,720.65
10/31/2005 $8,027,123,404,214.36

Prior Fiscal Years
09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16
09/28/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06
09/29/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86
09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38
09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00

SOURCE: BUREAU OF THE PUBLIC DEBT


</PRE>

 

[IDENTITY]

great. he killed 4 people so let's make ourselves feel better and kill him, STATE SPONSORED STYLE!!!! Bush is a MURDERER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pathetic after all the research shows the system is flawed. This man never admitted to guilt.

 

[kelp0027]

well; it's like that guy who darned near killed the truck driver after police got off for apprehending a dangerous drunk: rodney??

got off; cause riots woulda cost more;

yeah; give him life;

save a riot

that's how things are done in cal

jmho

gl

:+clueless

 

[dirty]

He may have saved some kids (and potential victims) lives by his work.

May be the Important word.....No way we can ever know if he is truly rehabed or if he Helped anyone While he was in the Can.....No way he should be let off the hook for the 4 Murders we know of and possible countless ones he either did himself or kept quiet about and didn't help put other Thugs Behind Bars.....He Renounced the Crips....so what does that matter BehindBars....This man Has never Turned over one other Thug that we know of and he still hangs around other Crips members in the Can.....He should Die a Slow Painful Death.....

 

[dirty]

great. he killed 4 people so let's make ourselves feel better and kill him, STATE SPONSORED STYLE!!!! Bush is a MURDERER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pathetic after all the research shows the system is flawed. This man never admitted to guilt.

LOL....I knew it would Pop up sooner or Later....This is Bush's Fault and he is a Murderer Becuase this man Killed 4 people and a Jury of his Peers Found Undesputable Evidence to Find him Quilty and give him the death Penalty.....When did the USA ever take the honor system in admitting to someones Guilt.....WTF.....I have heard it all now......IT is Bush's Fault.....:doh1

 

[The Seeker]

Dirty, you are correct, his potential positive influence cannot truly be weighed.
Regardless of how you feel about this particular thug (who is truly a criminal in every sense of the word), it makes sense to grant clemency.
It was wisely stated earlier in this thread that it is better to save a life and prevent a riot. Many lives could be lost if he is not saved.

 

[Sam Odom]

It was wisely stated earlier in this thread that it is better to save a life and prevent a riot. Many lives could be lost if he is not saved.

Then mob rules! If he is juiced then the cops should do their jobs on the street.

 

[The Seeker]

Easier said than done, Sam.
The cops can't do it. They'd have to bring in the National Guard!
What does killing him prove?

I've already stated I agree with Capitol punishment. I am just as much playing devil's advocate as anything.

Is it worth it to execute him, knowing what could happen?

 

[dirty]

Dirty, you are correct, his potential positive influence cannot truly be weighed.
Regardless of how you feel about this particular thug (who is truly a criminal in every sense of the word), it makes sense to grant clemency.
It was wisely stated earlier in this thread that it is better to save a life and prevent a riot. Many lives could be lost if he is not saved.

IMO anyone that would Riot over this Deserves what they get...if it is Death then So Be it.....I hate to Sound Brash....But anyone that Believes in this Thug and believes strong enough to riot over it.....Is a Fool.....And the Blame can be laid at the Feet of every Race Pimp in this Country Like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton , Et al.....Justice is Not a Race issue....It is a Right and Wrong Issue....And Shame on Any Bigoted Idiot that would try to turn it into anything Else...


We are talking about People who Riot when we win Champs in sports and Riot when they have any semblance of a chance....The same type of People....Thugs and Morons.....That are a Drain on Society....You can't save People from themselves.....Every one of them..:+clueless

 

[The Seeker]

Yes, anyone who riots is a fool. Anyone who feels this man is worth dying for is a fool. What about the innocent people, children, or cops who could be in harms way if rioting occurs.

I agree with you that these fools deserve what they get.
But if we take that view, shouldn't we just put more guns on the street and let them take each other out?
I think not.

There is no "wrong" in sparing a man's life. There is wrong in putting innocent people in danger. Not that I actually think it would be wrong to execute him either. He was tried, convicted, and sentenced according to our laws. Everyone knows the consequences of the actions of gangs and thugs like this. BUT IS IT WORTH IT?

 

[IDENTITY]

the gangs will riot to celebrate the clemency

 

[Sam Odom]

There is no "wrong" in sparing a man's life.

Accept contravening the law. USA's courts are not courts of mercy or justice, they are courts of law.

 

[IDENTITY]

sam you are so wrong. our courts are expressly courts of justice and equity. it's in the constitution, sir.

:+thumbs-2

 

[Sam Odom]

ID, you went to public school right? :+signs8-1

 

[The Seeker]

This is good stuff guys!
Sam, I can feel the heat off your head from here.

What price should society pay for killing a man? Lives, millions of dollars?
This whole issue has cost the public an unbelievable amount of $$. It could cost more than that.....

What is it worth to prove a point?

 

[Seymour]

Hey, like Identity says, he never admitted guilt - that's seems to be good enough with me too - well, let's let him go - Identity, on an entirely different note - I have some really good investments for you - you could make some real big money - let me know if your interested.

 

[Sam Odom]

Sam, I can feel the heat off your head from here.

No way :cocktail It's all good on my end! I had Ov198 Philly/NJ gm :+signs8-1

 

[dirty]

Hey, like Identity says, he never admitted guilt - that's seems to be good enough with me too - well, let's let him go - Identity, on an entirely different note - I have some really good investments for you - you could make some real big money - let me know if your interested.

I don't see what admitting to anything has to do with it....This is Not an Honor system....There are 10's of thousands of Criminals in Jail that are as guilty as they come and never admitted guilt.....common sense tells ya....If you are Guilty and are facing life in Prison or Death then Plead innocent until the Jury convicts ya then do what he is doing now...Plead Innocent Trying to get Clemency....No matter how Damning the Evidence is.....If you admitted Guilt you either want to die or are just plain Ole Stupid.

 

[The Seeker]

No way :cocktail It's all good on my end! I had Ov198 Philly/NJ gm :+signs8-1

Right on!
I'm all grins today!! No one could bring me off my cloud right now. 8-0 today with action still riding. Could be my best in a long time!

 

[Sam Odom]

SAN FRANCISCO - Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger refused to spare the life of Stanley Tookie Williams, the founder of the murderous Crips gang who awaited execution early Tuesday in a case that stirred debate over capital punishment and the possibility of redemption on death row. Williams, 51, is set to die by injection at San Quentin State Prison after midnight for murdering four people in two 1979 holdups.

 

[The General]

The Good Lord has made his call.

If Williams is sincere and has repented, then he will likely be in a better place than us in the very near future.

I hope it brings some relief to the family of the 4 murdered.

Sad any way I look at it.

Now we will have a 5th death.

 

[Deejmartin]

He committed a crime that at that time had the death penalty as the justice for the crime.

Sounds like he should die.

If you want to blame it on someone blame it on the person (peeps) who brought the bill up back in the 70s to reinstate capital punishment.

I personally would want to go by gas chamber which is a pain in the ass for those who have to do it or by firing squad...might end up with 4 bullets in the leg...

 

[Sam Odom]

All I know, if my family lived near 'inner city' (code word) L.A. I would get them out NOW

 

[Lawrence]

I have mixed feelings about all of this...I am against the death penalty 100% of the time...there is no way I can be a good christian and be for it...how can one say they are against abortion because it is murder yet they are for the death penalty...In my opinion, God is the only one who can create life, and take it away....Now, having said that, I think if we are going to use the death penalty in our society, this man should not be exempt because a few rappers and actors want to make a big deal about it..I mean, none of these people are concerned with the victims at all...its sickening

 

[gopherbob]

i've always been against the death penalty.

 

[Sam Odom]

how can one say they are against abortion because it is murder yet they are for the death penalty...

Easy, the DP isnt murder

 

[Lawrence]

Easy, the DP isnt murder

but Sam, most Christians, including myself, are against abortion because we believe that God, the creator, is the one who gives life and threfore should be the only one to take it away...it is state-sponsored murder...

 

[Sam Odom]

murder is the UNLAWFUL taking of life, beside, God (of the bible) ordered killings. Nations are held accountable for their unrighteous laws

 

[Lawrence]

I guess technically, yes you may be correct about the definition of murder...but my moral compass does not let me say one form of killing is acceptable while one is not...I know this is a very unpopular sentiment, but here goes: I absolutely do not mind my tax dollars going to keep this guy in a small isolated cell rotting away forever, thinking about what he did, for 2 reasons: 1. My tax money goes to all other types of shit i'm against and 2. the ultimate and only true Judge is God, and Tookie will have to face him eventually...

 

[dirty]

Lawrence.....The bible is the most Violent Book ever written and for Christians to say they Wholeheartedly go by it and then don't agree with the Death penalty is flat Hypocritical....Eye for Eye....Tooth for a Tooth......As a Christian I don't think you can pick and choose what parts of the Bible you choose to believe...:+clueless