Should Schwarzenegger grant clemency to Tookie ??

[Omni]

I have no problem with the death penalty itself...as long as you know for sure the guy you kill is guilty.

If he really did do what they say he did, no problem here putting him to death. And there is a very large amount of evidence that says he did. In the case of Albert Owens, the man was on the floor face down, hands behind his head and begging for his life and he shot him in the back at very close range. All for 120 bucks out of the register.

 

[Lawrence]

Lawrence.....The bible is the most Violent Book ever written and for Christians to say they Wholeheartedly go by it and then don't agree with the Death penalty is flat Hypocritical....Eye for Eye....Tooth for a Tooth......As a Christian I don't think you can pick and choose what parts of the Bible you choose to believe...:+clueless

Dirty, I am by no means an expert on the bible...I do agree with what u say about picking and choosing parts, and while I try to not do that, I do pay more attention to the new testament, which are pretty much Jesus' teachings....in reality though, its not so much of a Bible itself thing, as much as it is I feel flat out unequivically that any murder is wrong except when in Self Defense, and for you smart asses, yes I do consider Military Operations Self Defense...again, I am not criticizing anyone who is in favor of the D. Penalty, and like I said, if it is to be used in todays world, this man more than fits the description...

 

[Jimmy Hoffa]

I spent all last week in L.A. and was amazed at how upside down my home town has become.

I saw a news conference with Bloods gang members saying they would hold to a peace truce if Tookie was granted clemency.

How nice that a group of criminals agreed to obey the law if their demands were met.

Many have had their say in this forum and through the media. I would like to know how the families of the victims feel, because justice is ultimately for the VICTIMS and NOT THE PERPETRATOR.

And to all the young gang infected children of this country (many of whom I had the displeasure of teaching in Los Angels schools) may a lesson be learned...Retribution is a bitch and the California Department of Corrections is tougher than any damn sick-ass gang you could ever hope to join.

Good riddance to a cold-blooded KILLER.

 

[dirty]

Dirty, I am by no means an expert on the bible...I do agree with what u say about picking and choosing parts, and while I try to not do that, I do pay more attention to the new testament, which are pretty much Jesus' teachings....in reality though, its not so much of a Bible itself thing, as much as it is I feel flat out unequivically that any murder is wrong except when in Self Defense, and for you smart asses, yes I do consider Military Operations Self Defense...again, I am not criticizing anyone who is in favor of the D. Penalty, and like I said, if it is to be used in todays world, this man more than fits the description...

I was not Criticizing you or anyone else at all....I just think it is Funny that Christianity is the most Factioned Religions in the world....If you don't Believe like one or get pissed off at them start your own Faction...Or if you don't believe in that part of the Bible, Write one you Like with the books you want....The Kings James version is the Version that He Wanted the Christian world to learn...... Well you get the Picture.....I was just pointing out some bad Hypocritical Tendacies of the Religous right and Chritianity and in No means am I saying that the Bible should be followed to the letter of biblical law.....Lord no....I hope no offense was taken...


And Jimmy......agree whole heartedly with this Statement

[Good riddance to a cold-blooded KILLER./QUOTE]:+thumbs-2

 

[Lawrence]

Dirty, no offense taken at all, and I definitely understand all the points you made...:+waving-5

 

[world traveler]

I would like someone to list one case of where "God has taken a life" As far as i am concerned God does not give or take life. If you believe in a Creator then you must agree that He gave Man and all things on Earth the ability to create and take life equally. That goes for everything. A tree is a lethal weapon in a tornado, now, is that God taking a life if that tree happens to hit a person and kill them? No, the fact that a <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:metricconverter w:st="on" ProductID="500 lb">500 lb</st1:metricconverter> tree + <st1:metricconverter w:st="on" ProductID="300 mph">300 mph</st1:metricconverter> winds and physics are the reason why that person is killed, not God. If taking life was so unholy then why do all things have the ability to do it?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
So as far as we humans do not have the right to take life and only God does, i do not agree. God gave us all the things that we need in life to function, death is a function of nature pure and simple. Now whether a life is taken for the right or wrong reasons is the true argument and from the facts that i have read on this case, i respect the decision of the jury.<o></o>

JMO
W.T.

 

[pioneer]

I have mixed feelings about all of this...I am against the death penalty 100% of the time...there is no way I can be a good christian and be for it...how can one say they are against abortion because it is murder yet they are for the death penalty...In my opinion, God is the only one who can create life, and take it away....Now, having said that, I think if we are going to use the death penalty in our society, this man should not be exempt because a few rappers and actors want to make a big deal about it..I mean, none of these people are concerned with the victims at all...its sickening

I am a Christian and I am for the death penalty. I am against abortion because it is the deliberate killing of an innocent human being. If someone could show me a fetus who was guilty of killing even one other human being, let alone 4 human beings as in this case, then I would also be in favor of the death penalty, ie. abortion, for that fetus. In other words, I don't it is hypocritical at all to oppose abortion and support capital punishment as your post suggests.

As for your opinion that only God can take a life, do you seriously think that earthly societies should not have the power to make laws and punishments for breaking those laws? The USA, as a lawful society, has enacted laws against murder and punishment for breaking that law. I think if someone were to ask Jesus Christ about this execution tonight, He would answer the same way He did when asked about whether one should pay taxes to Caesar, ie. "Render unto Caesar, what is Caesar's, and render unto God, what is God's". So with that being said, as a Christian, you are charged to pray for this man's soul tonight, as your government, rightfully executes him. I will be praying with you.

 

[AK]

Grant Him Clemency.

 

[Mr. Met]

The Good Lord has made his call.

If Williams is sincere and has repented, then he will likely be in a better place than us in the very near future.

I hope it brings some relief to the family of the 4 murdered.

Sad any way I look at it.

Now we will have a 5th death.

:+thumbs-2

I'm by no means a big church goer, but I believe you've hit the nail on the head sir

 

[AK]

Schwarzenegger Denies Clemency For Tookie Williams
Stanley "Tookie" Williams' life will not be spared, California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger announced Monday afternoon (December 12), denying the convicted murderer and former gang leader's appeal for clemency less than 12 hours before his





scheduled execution.

The governor held a clemency hearing on Thursday with Williams' lawyers and Los Angeles prosecutors. Each side had 30 minutes to plead their case on whether or not the Crips co-founder's life should be spared (see "Schwarzenegger Meets With Tookie Williams' Lawyers").

Schwarzenegger was Williams' last hope to stay alive, as the California Supreme Court unanimously ruled on Sunday against granting him a stay of execution, saying each of the nine claims he brought forth lacked merit (see "California Supreme Court Rejects Tookie Williams' Appeal"). A federal appeals court also ruled on Monday that it would not block Tuesday's scheduled execution. During a press conference Friday, Schwarzenegger called the decision of William's clemency "a very heavy responsibility."

After hearing the news, the Reverend Jesse Jackson, a vocal supporter and friend of Williams, said Schwarzenegger made the decision for purely political reasons. He added that he believes the five-time Nobel Peace Prize nominee has earned clemency based on his meaningful contributions to society, by staving off at-risk youth from following his path into gang life.

During a meeting with Williams earlier that morning, Jackson told CNN that his friend seemed to possess a sense of inner peace. "He said he did not fear evil. He did not fear hurt," he said, adding that they had also said a prayer together.

Williams, who was convicted in 1981 of the murders of four people stemming from two separate robbery incidents in 1979, is set to die by lethal injection one minute after midnight at San Quentin State Prison. There is no word yet on who will be at the execution, but CNN reported that a few of Williams' family members, two spiritual advisors and members of the victims' families will most likely be present.

In earlier interviews, Williams seemed to have already accepted his fate. "I am not the kind of person to sit around and worry about being executed," Williams told Reuters in November. "I'm sure there are detractors who would like to hear that I am weeping ... [but] I fear nothing except God. My hope lies in [God] above anything and everything else. I have faith and if it doesn't go my way, it doesn't go my way."

Williams is said to have spent Monday morning in a visiting room with advisors, attorneys, family and friends. He will be moved into a special holding cell at 6 p.m., where he will be served his optional last meal.

Williams' case has rekindled the debate between those who support and oppose capital punishment. Meanwhile, Williams himself has remained fairly quiet on the matter, instead letting his high-profile backers speak for him. Among them are Jackson, rapper Snoop Dogg, who held a protest in San Quentin in support of his longtime friend (see "Snoop Tries To Get Crips Co-Founder Off Real Death Row"), and Oscar-winner Jamie Foxx, who portrayed the convict in the TV movie "Redemption: The Tookie Williams Story."

 

[dirty]

They call Tookie an "anti-gang crusader." Yet Tookie Williams would never cooperate with law enforcement in their efforts to bring the Crips gang, the gang he founded. He wouldn't disclose the names of gang members to the cops.



Sounds like he was really Healed and Rehabilitated doesn't it...:doh1

 

[AK]

They call Tookie an "anti-gang crusader." Yet Tookie Williams would never cooperate with law enforcement in their efforts to bring the Crips gang, the gang he founded. He wouldn't disclose the names of gang members to the cops.



Sounds like he was really Healed and Rehabilitated doesn't it...:doh1

You going to snitch out your local bookie after you rehabilitate your gambling habit?

 

[pioneer]

WT,
"I would like someone to list one case of where "God has taken a life"

...just off the top of my head, Sodom and Gomorrah, the 10th plague(where the firstborn of all the Egyptians were killed and the homes of the Jews were "pass(ed)over"), and there are numerous examples of God delivering the enemies of the Jews to them, for example, David's conquest of Goliath.

 

[dirty]

You going to snitch out your local bookie after you rehabilitate your gambling habit?

LOL.....Hell no....but Bookmaking is not as bad as Murder I don't think :+clueless

 

[world traveler]

WT,
"I would like someone to list one case of where "God has taken a life"

...just off the top of my head, Sodom and Gomorrah, the 10th plague(where the firstborn of all the Egyptians were killed and the homes of the Jews were "pass(ed)over"), and there are numerous examples of God delivering the enemies of the Jews to them, for example, David's conquest of Goliath.

As far as i can tell the only " proof " that God was the reason for the sulfer balls to fall from the sky and burn those cities is in the Bible. Quoting the Bilble as proof that God exsists does not pass muster in my opinion. Plagues in ancient Ejypt, those were very common as has been the case with different cultures all over the world. The common cold killed most Incan and Aztec tribesmen but left the Conquistadores alone, now is that Gods work? Of course not, the Incan and Aztec empires never suffered from colds, therfore the immune system of the Indians could not fight it pure and simple. You dont really believe that A huge one eyed giant was felled by a slingshot do you? It is called a metafore. Remember the Bible is not the direct word of God, it was written by Man for Man to explain the unexplainable of that time, nothing more nothing less.

 

[TONY MONTANA]

Tookie is on the bus where he belongs! MAY'N!!
The guy is the founder of an organization that is responsible for hundreds/thousands of deaths for that reason alone he got what he deserved.
:+angry2-9

 

[The General]

Politics and religion in the same thread.

What a nightmare and lose/lose topic.

:hung

 

[wrigley]

murder is the UNLAWFUL taking of life, beside, God (of the bible) ordered killings. Nations are held accountable for their unrighteous laws

------------------
God killed several in the bible

Welcome to the EvilBible.com Web Site​

This web site is designed to spread the vicious truth about the Bible. For far too long priests and preachers have completely ignored the vicious criminal acts that the Bible promotes. The so called ?God? of the Bible makes Osama Bin Laden look like a Boy Scout. This God, according to the Bible, is directly responsible for many mass-murders, rapes, pillage, plunder, slavery, child abuse and killing, not to mention the killing of unborn children. I have included references to the Biblical passages, so grab your Bible and follow along. You can also follow along with on-line Bibles such as BibleStudyTools.net or SkepticsAnnotatedBible.com.

It always amazes me how many times this God orders the killing of innocent people even after the Ten Commandments said ?Thou shall not kill?. For example, God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of ?all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses? (Joshua 6). In Judges 21, He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody! In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered.

The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9).

This type of criminal behavior should shock any moral person. Murder, rape, pillage, plunder, slavery, and child abuse can not be justified by saying that some god says it?s OK. If more people would actually sit down and read the Bible there would be a lot more atheists like myself.

Jesus also promoted the idea that all men should castrate themselves to go to heaven: "For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." (Matthew 19:12 ASV) I don't know why anyone would follow the teachings of someone who literally tells all men to cut off their privates.

The God of the Bible also was a big fan of ritual human sacrifice and animal sacrifice.

And just in case you are thinking that the evil and immoral laws of the Old Testament are no longer in effect, perhaps you should read where Jesus makes it perfectly clear: "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB) There are many more quotes on this topic at my "Do Not Ignore the Old Testament" web page.

I know that most Christians believe that God is a good and loving god, and wants people to do good things. I believe that most people want to do good things and behave morally. I also believe that many Christians haven?t really read the Bible, or just read certain passages in church. This is understandable, as the Bible is hard to read due to its archaic language and obscure references. Also many priests and preachers don?t like to read certain passages in the Bible because they present a message of hate not love.