My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Just saying if a syndicate plays you and you move all those lines, what happens if BW comes back and bets the other way...
He does that all the time, you can't try to guess whats real and whats phony when moving lines, unless you 100% know he phonied the game...........
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

All I am trying to say is that each book does things different and your way is not necessarily the right way or wrong way....there is more than one way to skin a cat...

The problem is Rainbow is that you think your way is gospel....
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

All I am trying to say is that each book does things different and your way is not necessarily the right way or wrong way....there is more than one way to skin a cat...

The problem is Rainbow is that you think your way is gospel....
I like my style...........
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

if i get bet was appears to a move i.e. if they lay 3 1/2 on mfl tonight ill go to 4 and move ml from 70 to 80 and first half from 2 1 /2 dog 15 to 2 1/2 -115...what rainbow said......i think thats pretty standard
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

quarters are really a non entity those are like a separate prop(in other words who cares).i have guys betting 100 large on nfl sides and i have quarters up for nickels......
 

$tinky

EOG Senior Member
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

All I am trying to say is that each book does things different and your way is not necessarily the right way or wrong way....there is more than one way to skin a cat...

The problem is Rainbow is that you think your way is gospel....
Exactly! Rainbow when you say things like. "if you don't do that then I feel sorry for you" or "if you don't understand that then you're in the wrong business" You come across awfully hard headed. Perhaps you know a lot, but I doubt you're the god of all line moving or you would not be where you are now.

Why don't you acknowledge that there are other ways to do things other than your own? Do you think you are beyond learning anything new?
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Exactly! Rainbow when you say things like. "if you don't do that then I feel sorry for you" or "if you don't understand that then you're in the wrong business" You come across awfully hard headed. Perhaps you know a lot, but I doubt you're the god of all line moving or you would not be where you are now.

Why don't you acknowledge that there are other ways to do things other than your own? Do you think you are beyond learning anything new?
one thing ive always done is keep an open mind.......i learn something new every day and ive done this for 29 years since i was 19.......players change you have to adjust........same basic principles but the internet and available info for any novice has changed bookmaking


sorry i know Q was directed for rainbow but wanted to chime in
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

BINGO the computer is the greatest marketing tool there is ! Most players never knew there was a 1/2 line much less a qtr line also money lines. If you find a action customer with this many options it CANT BE A CREDIT STORE if you want to get your money!!! Its like leaving a drug addict in a pharmacy by himself
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Hey fellas-
This forum is shaping up to be something once again...nice discussion going on. Thanks for the kind words too Rainbow and Vejo, I'm no legend but I am an old timer who earns and learns.

Rainbow is right here, if the bet is enough to move the spread, then a good bookmaker will also move all the derivitives of that underlying spread as well. NOt doing so would be like watching the the dow move, and then not having the dow futures and call/put options (a derivitive of the underlying) repriced. Very simple stuff imo... Thank God the Journeyman circus is over here. I might hang around with you fellas for awhile.

Iron.
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

BINGO the computer is the greatest marketing tool there is ! Most players never knew there was a 1/2 line much less a qtr line also money lines. If you find a action customer with this many options it CANT BE A CREDIT STORE if you want to get your money!!! Its like leaving a drug addict in a pharmacy by himself

Not if you know you customers and they are on a running credit line. I think post up is a losing proposition these days. Cost way to much to get money in and out. And most post up books think once they get the money they own it. They can take your money almost instantly but cannot pay you without you jumping threw hoops. That is not a way to do business IMO.


As far as booking............you book to the business you are writing...........that is the bottom line..................


And if I was rainbow I wouldn't be afraid to take a bet either, it ain't his money
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Not if you know you customers and they are on a running credit line. I think post up is a losing proposition these days. Cost way to much to get money in and out. And most post up books think once they get the money they own it. They can take your money almost instantly but cannot pay you without you jumping threw hoops. That is not a way to do business IMO.


As far as booking............you book to the business you are writing...........that is the bottom line..................


And if I was rainbow I wouldn't be afraid to take a bet either, it ain't his money
You are just here to butcher threads, I see you have some real good threads you started..... you have no clue how it works on the other side of the counter period. keep doing waht you do best chasing steam.......
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Exactly! Rainbow when you say things like. "if you don't do that then I feel sorry for you" or "if you don't understand that then you're in the wrong business" You come across awfully hard headed. Perhaps you know a lot, but I doubt you're the god of all line moving or you would not be where you are now.

Why don't you acknowledge that there are other ways to do things other than your own? Do you think you are beyond learning anything new?
I've never had a problem with no one I worked for moving lines and I worked with practically all top notch books, if you think I'm doing it wrong thats fine, like I said about 3 times in this same thread this is the way I do it, if its wrong in your eyes that fine too, you are not the one that pays me period......
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Not if you know you customers and they are on a running credit line. I think post up is a losing proposition these days. Cost way to much to get money in and out. And most post up books think once they get the money they own it. They can take your money almost instantly but cannot pay you without you jumping threw hoops. That is not a way to do business IMO.


As far as booking............you book to the business you are writing...........that is the bottom line..................


And if I was rainbow I wouldn't be afraid to take a bet either, it ain't his money
You have no clue whatsoever, you just move the lines off of squares and feed wiseguys...LOL... I know I have to go to the beach now after your last post.......
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

I have had my share of problems with my bosses over the years....thing is when discussing those problems, I always listened to what the other person said....and you know what I learned?

He who has the gold makes the rules....especially in this business....

I was always lucky that I had some great bosses during my tenure in offshore; especially the guys from CRIS and GRANDE...
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

You have no clue whatsoever, you just move the lines off of squares and feed wiseguys...LOL... I know I have to go to the beach now after your last post.......
Good idea Rainbow...go to the beach and relax...come back in a couple days ready for the weekend...
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

I have had my share of problems with my bosses over the years....thing is when discussing those problems, I always listened to what the other person said....and you know what I learned?

He who has the gold makes the rules....especially in this business....

I was always lucky that I had some great bosses during my tenure in offshore; especially the guys from CRIS and GRANDE...
I defintely can't dissagree with your two bosses at those two books........
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Hey fellas-
This forum is shaping up to be something once again...nice discussion going on. Thanks for the kind words too Rainbow and Vejo, I'm no legend but I am an old timer who earns and learns.

Rainbow is right here, if the bet is enough to move the spread, then a good bookmaker will also move all the derivitives of that underlying spread as well. NOt doing so would be like watching the the dow move, and then not having the dow futures and call/put options (a derivitive of the underlying) repriced. Very simple stuff imo... Thank God the Journeyman circus is over here. I might hang around with you fellas for awhile.

Iron.
Iron, I hope you do stick around because you are defintely a grade A poster......
 

Bucky

EOG Dedicated
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

This is some entertaining stuff. I wish we had a program/roster - Have #'s listed and positions - LOL. Bookies = team A - Players = Team B.

These threads always turn out to be a debate between bookies/players. How many bookies could win being a player - how many players have enough talent to be a successful bookie? How many people have enough talent to do both??? I am not about to tell a bookie how to book. How many bookies can tell the boss which players are beating them - what sport - game - point spreads - money lines - props - interactive - half times - totals - nail it down to the nat's arse? Advice from a bookmaker to a player on how to win is very suspect. They should just bet themselves - actually do it and then tell players how good a sports bettor they are. Successful players don't even tell other players how to win - it is all worthless BS most of the time.

When players win - how many have the exact figures on that flip side of the coin? day - week - month - year - decade????

A bookie wins because of the law of large numbers from the book as a whole and incompetence on the part of the players.

A player works the opposite way and wins because he takes little bites of value out piece by piece and in similar fashion in many cases due to incompetence of some bookmakers.

Talent wins on both sides of the counter long term unless they do not have discipline. Everybody loses when they are on tilt.
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

This is some entertaining stuff. I wish we had a program/roster - Have #'s listed and positions - LOL. Bookies = team A - Players = Team B.

These threads always turn out to be a debate between bookies/players. How many bookies could win being a player - how many players have enough talent to be a successful bookie? How many people have enough talent to do both??? I am not about to tell a bookie how to book. How many bookies can tell the boss which players are beating them - what sport - game - point spreads - money lines - props - interactive - half times - totals - nail it down to the nat's arse? Advice from a bookmaker to a player on how to win is very suspect. They should just bet themselves - actually do it and then tell players how good a sports bettor they are. Successful players don't even tell other players how to win - it is all worthless BS most of the time.

When players win - how many have the exact figures on that flip side of the coin? day - week - month - year - decade????

A bookie wins because of the law of large numbers from the book as a whole and incompetence on the part of the players.

A player works the opposite way and wins because he takes little bites of value out piece by piece and in similar fashion in many cases due to incompetence of some bookmakers.

Talent wins on both sides of the counter long term unless they do not have discipline. Everybody loses when they are on tilt.
Excellent post.......
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Viejo, Would it be out of line to ask when you worked at CRIS, where did they get their openers? Did they use a lot of different services and take an average or what? Did they use Keith Glatnz? I think their openers are better than a lot of people give em credit for but I can assume they weren't LVSC customers.

Also does anyone get to "go first" there before they open (i.e on NFL or college football numbers) or is it truly first come first serve.

I know people complain about the juice at this place but it is really, really hard not to appreciate and respect what they do and the amount of time they have done it. Truly remarkable. Their longevity and reputation speak for themselves but those were a few things I always wondered about that place and if you could answer I would appreciate it greatly. Thank you.
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

You have no clue whatsoever, you just move the lines off of squares and feed wiseguys...LOL... I know I have to go to the beach now after your last post.......
Rainbow, instead of trying to prove something to everyone on this forum, calm down, and contribute in a mannerly fashion. You have a lot to offer.
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Rainbow, instead of trying to prove something to everyone on this forum, calm down, and contribute in a mannerly fashion. You have a lot to offer.
Sometimes its hard to do that with all the bashing, onething I can say is when Ken was living it wasn't like this.......
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Viejo, Would it be out of line to ask when you worked at CRIS, where did they get their openers? Did they use a lot of different services and take an average or what? Did they use Keith Glatnz? I think their openers are better than a lot of people give em credit for but I can assume they weren't LVSC customers.

Also does anyone get to "go first" there before they open (i.e on NFL or college football numbers) or is it truly first come first serve.

I know people complain about the juice at this place but it is really, really hard not to appreciate and respect what they do and the amount of time they have done it. Truly remarkable. Their longevity and reputation speak for themselves but those were a few things I always wondered about that place and if you could answer I would appreciate it greatly. Thank you.
Kieth Glantz was one of the two handicappers we used....the head man at CRIS is very, very good at what he does and has been there close to 15 years...

When I was there, we had two gentlemen go first and then open it up to everyone else...not at liberty to say who...
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

rainbow-- i agree on your point that there are contributors to your thread who have never
been in the shoes we've had to fill. makes for an action filled thread. but, alot of words
backed by inexperience.
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Kieth Glantz was one of the two handicappers we used....the head man at CRIS is very, very good at what he does and has been there close to 15 years...

When I was there, we had two gentlemen go first and then open it up to everyone else...not at liberty to say who...
Did they get to go first for a big bet? No wonder the openers are so decent... On the other hand, the guys that get to go first can't be that great or they would want to bet a hell of a lot more than they can get by "going first", or am I wrong?

What about halftimes? Has to be a situation where you use the 1h line subtracted from the game line and make an adjustment based on the score?

Seems like a tough racket booking the 2hs to a world of sharps, but the openers methodology seems like it would make it awful tough on the rest of us.


Thanks for the info Viejo. Great thread for the most part.
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Sometimes halves are put up to what the books need...not necessarily what the line should be...

But in all my years at CRIS, we were generally the first to put them up...that's what the boss wanted...

We gave a pretty nice pop to those guys because of the volumn we got the rest of the week...besides, those guys knew which way the line would move and sometimes later in the week those same guys would buy back...

All the top books have good linesmanagers and most of them put up good halftimes...but I must say that there are two or three guys out there who do well betting halftimes in all major sports...
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

He does that all the time, you can't try to guess whats real and whats phony when moving lines, unless you 100% know he phonied the game...........

What he is doing is middling the #### out of you!

For BW it doesn't matter who gets bet as long as he can get a nice middle.
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

This is some entertaining stuff. I wish we had a program/roster - Have #'s listed and positions - LOL. Bookies = team A - Players = Team B.

These threads always turn out to be a debate between bookies/players. How many bookies could win being a player - how many players have enough talent to be a successful bookie? How many people have enough talent to do both??? I am not about to tell a bookie how to book. How many bookies can tell the boss which players are beating them - what sport - game - point spreads - money lines - props - interactive - half times - totals - nail it down to the nat's arse? Advice from a bookmaker to a player on how to win is very suspect. They should just bet themselves - actually do it and then tell players how good a sports bettor they are. Successful players don't even tell other players how to win - it is all worthless BS most of the time.

When players win - how many have the exact figures on that flip side of the coin? day - week - month - year - decade????

A bookie wins because of the law of large numbers from the book as a whole and incompetence on the part of the players.

A player works the opposite way and wins because he takes little bites of value out piece by piece and in similar fashion in many cases due to incompetence of some bookmakers.

Talent wins on both sides of the counter long term unless they do not have discipline. Everybody loses when they are on tilt.

Most really sharp Bettors would do a lot better booking. That is not up for debate.

Very few bookmakers could win betting as proven by the horrible openers they all use as none of them seem to know what the lines/odds should be, but there a ton of Bettors who know the second the lines come out what is off.

If these bookmakers were so sharp how come they give up a lot of their profits because of their inability to know what the lines/odds should be.

I always thought that was pretty funny how not 1 bookmaker today knows what the lines/odds should be, but many, many Bettors are right there trying to get the REALLY BAD OPENERS these bookmakers use.

Great subject though
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Most really sharp Bettors would do a lot better booking. That is not up for debate.

Very few bookmakers could win betting as proven by the horrible openers they all use as none of them seem to know what the lines/odds should be, but there a ton of Bettors who know the second the lines come out what is off.

If these bookmakers were so sharp how come they give up a lot of their profits because of their inability to know what the lines/odds should be.

I always thought that was pretty funny how not 1 bookmaker today knows what the lines/odds should be, but many, many Bettors are right there trying to get the REALLY BAD OPENERS these bookmakers use.

Great subject though
Everytime I've seen a successful better try to do things on the other side of the counter it didn't work out for them like it did as a better, easy said than done................
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Most really sharp Bettors would do a lot better booking. That is not up for debate.

Very few bookmakers could win betting as proven by the horrible openers they all use as none of them seem to know what the lines/odds should be, but there a ton of Bettors who know the second the lines come out what is off.

If these bookmakers were so sharp how come they give up a lot of their profits because of their inability to know what the lines/odds should be.

I always thought that was pretty funny how not 1 bookmaker today knows what the lines/odds should be, but many, many Bettors are right there trying to get the REALLY BAD OPENERS these bookmakers use.

Great subject though
Some bookmakers indeed know what the lines should and are betters but don't really care with the lower limits during the week, the last thing you want to do in this business is to try and ruin the market, and just for the record, alot of games bet early are manipulated till the day of the game and than bet back on the opposite side...
 
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