My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

It's obvious you've noted a flaw in your logic and are now resorting to circular logic, one in which you can agree with detractors and yet, still stand by your statement, the very ones your detractors disagree with.

YOU SAY...

"BTW Ironlock if a book is habitually 8-1 one way, that is definately gambling. Whether he has a supposed 50% chance of "winning" a game or not. That is definately GREED thinking. Or at least rationalization. Basically it is how a gambler thinks. If I can lay of that money and guarantee a $1000 I am bookmaking. If I let them both go I am SPECULATING(gambling)."

Again, you are mathematically, get that "MATHEMATICALLY" incorrect! Given that the outcome is 50% (which you have graciously done, thank you), and given that the bookmaker has a sufficient bankroll (which you have not done and is clearly the key to your keeping on), then how is it GAMBLING if one is getting +110 on a 50% proposition, it simply is NOT, mathematically....it is mathematically GUARANTEED a 4.54% return on investment. What do you not understand here? It wouldn't matter if the ratio where 10000 to 1, if the expectation is positive, and the bankroll is sufficient, there is NO GAMBLING at all! :+signs9-1


YOU ALSO SAY:
Every bettor that makes a bet supposedly has a 50% chance of winning. if they do, then why do they go broke so fast? They should be winning enough and losing enough so that only vig is getting eaten up when they collect, so they should have enough money to survive for awhile. But they don't. That is turning your example on its head.

Yes, gamblers go broke faster than bookmakers? WTF? For one thing, bm's have a positive expectation which usually helps. The better on the other hand, has a negative one, which tends to hurt.

Secondly, gamblers have a LIMITED bankroll. Limited bankroll+ negative expecation versus SUFFICIENT BANROLL+postive expectation=Gamblers going broke. Now which part of the above "turned my example on its head"....?
Nice to see things haven't changed with Wantit in all these years.
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

rainbow--a wise man who in fact your boss knows and respects told me never to create a wager.
my interpretation of this would be if all books took a hit at say 6 and moved to 6.5 or 7 in foots or hoops and you stayed at 6 waiting for a hit, some wise guy or some sharps or even some whale who bets large would hit this number only because they know you are offering a bad number.
not for rainbow but others------
if it is so hard to make money booking today, what about those credit businesses that have all
kinds of expenses, like paying pph for example, plus having to pay out 50% or more commission to their agents. yet they make millions or in bad years hundreds of thousands.
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

if a bookmaker knows what the line should be he should stop paying all his employee costs,stop paying all his processing costs,stop paying all his computer programmers, stop paying enormous cuts to his agents, stop living in fear that the u.s. government will come in and grab his bankroll, move his family out of some third world country and dismiss his bodyguards, stop getting laydowns AND BET...
it aint that easy
 

IrishTim

EOG Dedicated
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

if a bookmaker knows what the line should be he should stop paying all his employee costs,stop paying all his processing costs,stop paying all his computer programmers, stop paying enormous cuts to his agents, stop living in fear that the u.s. government will come in and grab his bankroll, move his family out of some third world country and dismiss his bodyguards, stop getting laydowns AND BET...
it aint that easy
It's only that easy if you're HT. He just wakes up and knows what the line should be for that day's games.
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Too bad either one of you are not smart enough to realize it is that easy.

Morons make bank bookmaking.

12io4j2w90
 

WINBET

EOG Dedicated
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

I think a bookie should never move a line off of COLD money, I think in a long run you will beat the square and pay the Wiseguy. I think the biggest KEY is VOLUME, the problem that kills alot of books is GREED, they all want to be a MILLIONAIRE in one week, it doesnt work like that if you want to be successful you must have alot of patience.
:LMAOyou take bets on 2 way games (coin flip ) and think you have some prowess as a bookmaker :LMAO love to see you deal with a 20 runner horse race wanker. :btj:

this geezer gets more delusional about the game the more people just let him post bollocks. :shoot::cheers
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

:LMAOyou take bets on 2 way games (coin flip ) and think you have some prowess as a bookmaker :LMAO love to see you deal with a 20 runner horse race wanker. :btj:

this geezer gets more delusional about the game the more people just let him post bollocks. :shoot::cheers
Winbet, I wouldn't waste my time explaining to you, because you probably still wouldn't understand...
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

:LMAOyou take bets on 2 way games (coin flip ) and think you have some prowess as a bookmaker :LMAO love to see you deal with a 20 runner horse race wanker. :btj:

this geezer gets more delusional about the game the more people just let him post bollocks. :shoot::cheers
Its called knowing your customers, but I doubt you even know what that means...LOL...
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

if a bookmaker knows what the line should be he should stop paying all his employee costs,stop paying all his processing costs,stop paying all his computer programmers, stop paying enormous cuts to his agents, stop living in fear that the u.s. government will come in and grab his bankroll, move his family out of some third world country and dismiss his bodyguards, stop getting laydowns AND BET...
it aint that easy
Nice post, but the most important thing about booking is knowing your customers... the rest is history...
 

WINBET

EOG Dedicated
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Knowing your customers and KNOWING what they are doing.

Rainbow couldn't be more right.
Youve got very conservative in you posting since your radio appearance. :btj: did they cut your nuts off or is it the beta blocker residule moving to the brain. 12io4j2w90
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Absolutely not. the outcome its a 50/50 proposition but the bettor is laying 11 to win 10. Have anyone with the DGS software run a hold percentage report. Any package who had a hold percentage of less than 5% would be a loser booking 10 to win 10. The CRIS's of the world are lucky to hold 2 % due to the people they cater too but an outfit like bodog may hold 7% if they boot winners and keep squares.
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Absolutely not. the outcome its a 50/50 proposition but the bettor is laying 11 to win 10. Have anyone with the DGS software run a hold percentage report. Any package who had a hold percentage of less than 5% would be a loser booking 10 to win 10. The CRIS's of the world are lucky to hold 2 % due to the people they cater too but an outfit like bodog may hold 7% if they boot winners and keep squares.
Tyrone, thats not my point. I'm not moving a line off of a square and put a naked line out there for a wiseguy to gobble up... Thats just not the way I book, if I know I'm going to beat a player LONGTERM. Why would I move a line off of him?
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Rain I agree with your theory. However I must assume you have unlimited money to make this statement. RICH PEOPLE CAN GET REAL LUCKY IN THE SHORT RUN!!! We neglected to mention the simple fact that you can lay-off of the money as opposed to moving the line.
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

So, so much about mathematical probabilities. Are we thinking these offshore bookmakers went to the Wharton School of Business? I think they are a little more practical.

You win as an offshore bookie and you stay in business.

You lose and disappear into the jungle with the money (like the gambler has any recourse) and re-emerge as somebody else with a 100% bonus for new customers and try again.
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

MR Jones you cynical negatitive personality actually has enabled you to be a 100% correct in this instance!
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Tyrone, thats not my point. I'm not moving a line off of a square and put a naked line out there for a wiseguy to gobble up... Thats just not the way I book, if I know I'm going to beat a player LONGTERM. Why would I move a line off of him?
I thought I was commenting on a post from page 1....then I realized I just jumped into a 6 year old thread. Sorry for interferring
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

So, so much about mathematical probabilities. Are we thinking these offshore bookmakers went to the Wharton School of Business? I think they are a little more practical.

You win as an offshore bookie and you stay in business.

You lose and disappear into the jungle with the money (like the gambler has any recourse) and re-emerge as somebody else with a 100% bonus for new customers and try again.
I don't think you will see Pinnacle, Cris, Grande, Delmar, and the Greek run from anyone without paying in full...
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Well yeah Rainbow. But most are lost to USA gamblers now because these books aren't stupid and have left the market.

And if gamblers are smart enough to circumvent the prohibition, it's a one-way street not 54% of the time, but 90% of the time in a bad way.
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

You lose five thousand this week, and next week you win three thousand. It's enough of a win to stoke your gambling juices for another week. You cull out anybody you think is a threat.

How genius is that business model?
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Rainbow is right on, and in this case wantitallformoi is in over his head. If the BANKROLL is sufficient, why would a bookmaker move a number that is attracted in inordinate amount of money (cold money) from huge squares.

Wantitallformoi- Here is where you are mathematically WRONG. You view each GAME as a independant event. Smart bookmakers, with large enough bankrolls, veiw each game as 1 part of a larger series, forming "the long run". The bookmaker will win exactly 50% of those imbalanced games, and therefore, it plays out mathematically just as though he had EVERY game balanced...but, by not moving the number, he has collected for himself 4-5 times the amount of PROFIT (vig) than he would have given away using your Method of balancing EACH AND EVERY GAME!

YOUR WAY (with a two game scenario)
$10,000 on BAltimore+3
$90,0000 on INDY-3

YOUR WAY suggests that it is smart for the bookmaker to call off 80,000 of his action, and "guarantee" himself ($1,000 profit), I say guarantee as if we are talking about post up money.

GAME 2
90,000 on Denver-4.5
10,000 on Miami +4.5

YOUR WAY again suggest calling off 80,000 (80% of your action, you've generated by advertising, promoting, and earning a solid reputation) in order that you GUARANTEE yourself $1,000 profit.

So, your way, we have NO RISK and guarantee a grand total profit of $2000 of 220,000, a hold of 1%...wooooo hooooo.

THE SHARP BOOKMAKERS WAY(given a large enough bankroll)

GAME 1
$10,000 on BAltimore+3
$90,0000 on INDY-3

GAME 2
90,000 on Denver-4.5
10,000 on Miami +4.5

THE MATHEMATICALLY SAVY bookmaker keeps it all, expecting to win 50% of all decisions, regardless of how heavy or inbalanced the sides are...He splits here, losing 79,000 on the Indy game and Winning 89,000 on the Miami game..for a NET PROFIT of 10,000 of of 220000 (net hold of 4.54%), the mathematically expected vig earned by a good bookmaker

So, unless you just plain DON"T believe in math, you're way is WRONG! Take these two examples and do the calculations over 2000 games and see which results you like best, and stop calling sharp bookmakers, idiots, Please!

:+signs9-1

Iron.
This is how smart Wantitallformoi really is and if you read this whole thread you will see how bright the kid really is... This thread was in 2005 and he claims he embarassed me in it, maybe he should do a little bit more reading on his off time to see if I got EMBARASSED in this thread...LOL...
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

rainbow- you have mention it's important to know your customer. when bw or his beards call, you know it's them. i know you don't try to guess which side they'll bet and give off juice or off number. so, what does it mean it helps to know your customer. unless you're referring to those who the line will eventually move, vs. joe public.
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

rainbow- you have mention it's important to know your customer. when bw or his beards call, you know it's them. i know you don't try to guess which side they'll bet and give off juice or off number. so, what does it mean it helps to know your customer. unless you're referring to those who the line will eventually move, vs. joe public.
Bw, will never in life stop sending in his beards. He has several in our office in the football season and in the college hoop season. It doesn't take me long to figure out who they are. And getting back to the subject of moving lines, if I don't think a customer going to beat me LIFETIME I will not move the line off of him, because the last thing you want to do in this business is move a line off of a square and let a wiseguy bet the opposite side. You will only be feeding wiseguys moving lines off of square money. Squares do go on winning streaks but at the end you will get their money longterm. Now if you have all squares and no wiseguys thats a horse of a different color, you don't have to worry about wiseguys taking the squares money if you move the line off of them. Thats why its very, very important to know your customers in this business...
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

Some SHITT never changes... wanti :lock:
I just have to ask how many books have gone out of business booking the way these guys advocate?

But read my first and second comments in this thread.

My second one to be sure. How many books cater to US players NOW? How many are offering reduced juice and all the other shit every make believe book used to offer THEN. My comments were made 8 years ago when we (Americans) could bet everywhere, we are now years past that and what I said has basically come true.

Why would I change when I am always right or at least predicting what is going to happen given certain assumptions?
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

I just have to ask how many books have gone out of business booking the way these guys advocate?

NONE........Books have gone out of business because of 3 reasons:
1. They are under capitalized (Shouldn't have opened in first place)
2. Books are unable to acquire merchant accounts to process Master Card and Visa
3. Cater to Sharp Players without limiting or utilizing better form of risk management (EGO)

My second one to be sure. How many books cater to US players NOW?

They dont cater to US players because US players cant post up. Hard to run any business wihout cash flow.
1. The US Govt made it illegal with the passing of UEIGA.
2. Prosecuted Neteller founders and destroyed their business
3. Prosecuted several credit card processors.

Nostradamas you aint, your logic is flawed and basically you dont know what the fuck you are talking about.
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

I just have to ask how many books have gone out of business booking the way these guys advocate?

NONE........Books have gone out of business because of 3 reasons:
1. They are under capitalized (Shouldn't have opened in first place)
2. Books are unable to acquire merchant accounts to process Master Card and Visa
3. Cater to Sharp Players without limiting or utilizing better form of risk management (EGO)

My second one to be sure. How many books cater to US players NOW?

They dont cater to US players because US players cant post up. Hard to run any business wihout cash flow.
1. The US Govt made it illegal with the passing of UEIGA.
2. Prosecuted Neteller founders and destroyed their business
3. Prosecuted several credit card processors.

Nostradamas you aint, your logic is flawed and basically you dont know what the fuck you are talking about.
You nailed this post to the tee...
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

I just have to ask how many books have gone out of business booking the way these guys advocate?

NONE........Books have gone out of business because of 3 reasons:
1. They are under capitalized (Shouldn't have opened in first place)
2. Books are unable to acquire merchant accounts to process Master Card and Visa
3. Cater to Sharp Players without limiting or utilizing better form of risk management (EGO)

My second one to be sure. How many books cater to US players NOW?

They dont cater to US players because US players cant post up. Hard to run any business wihout cash flow.
1. The US Govt made it illegal with the passing of UEIGA.
2. Prosecuted Neteller founders and destroyed their business
3. Prosecuted several credit card processors.

Nostradamas you aint, your logic is flawed and basically you dont know what the fuck you are talking about.
same semantics bullshit the original guy tried to make. He qualified his answer with the phrase "with an adequate bankroll'. If people knew just how little money all these places have it would scare them shitless. But 'booking' stupid it doesnt matter how much money you have. Aces Gold had as much if not more than anyone ever had, and they had some bad luck, booked stupid with bad timing and got wiped out. The way they booked it would have happened eventually. So it was inevitable but the speed at which it happened was definitely hastened by the results of the games.

Also when I mentioned the whole catering to US players it wasnt for any reason but to show now that the competition has been lessened books dont care about players. There is no more reduced vig places other than 5 dimes which is about as bad as SIA in terms of limits and how fast they will profile you. The fact that SIA was a complete joke book back then and 5 Dimes is seen as the best option today for US players shows how far the options have fallen. Because theyre roughly the same thing. Except SIA isnt/wasnt run by some douche bag midget with a Napoleon complex.

Either way stand alone sports books are nearly impossible to run 'correctly'. Thats why most have poker or table games or black jack or something they can steal money from people with to help subsidize any losses they have in the sports book. Even in Vegas with the billions of dollars these resorts make the sports book aspects have been completely gutted and redone, even in the past 5 years with almost no off shore competition half the book makers in Vegas have been bought up or stopped business. Limits get reduced and vigs get higher. To think a bunch of clowns with a little cash who set up shop offshore can outsmart or do a better job at something than companies who make the kind of money legitimate businesses can is a major stretch almost laughable.

I think we will eventually see that the almighty Pinnacle was also getting subsidized and kick backs and whatever else to help them push along. I am sure once all the details of their relationship are exposed or even partially exposed we will have a better understanding.

Save the "pinnacle wasnt involved nonsense". I might have to wait a few more years but eventually I am sure it will come out and I will (once again) be 'proven' correct.
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

how do you become a bookie if you only have 1 or 2 guys and they dont bet the same games lets say one puts $100 on La lakers and another one puts $100 on the Detroit Redwings how do you make money then?
 
Re: My Knowledge Of A Bookie To Be Successful.

how do you become a bookie if you only have 1 or 2 guys and they dont bet the same games lets say one puts $100 on La lakers and another one puts $100 on the Detroit Redwings how do you make money then?
Volume is the most important thing when booking...
 
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