Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

GameBred

I Trade Therefore I Am
#81
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout



My NBA is hitting at 55.5% over the last 8 years on 1338 picks vs 53% the first 3.
Guess I am headed in the right direction. 3 #1's on VI the last 8 years.
Assuming this is even true, why do you claim anything under 59% constitutes room for improvement? Like I stated before, you aren't even in the neighborhood of 59% lifetime.
 
#82
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

I'll give Bovi this. The release numbers at VI give a subscriber a chance to bet at that number. The small sample I saw at Donaghy's or Feist's site were the best number of the day which was usually the opener. And naturally totals were more volatile than sides. Again the 800 pound elephant in the room is why a seemingly successful NBA tout has such dubious associations with the likes of Donaghy & Feist.
Donaghay has great insight, I have more respect for Donaghay/bovi opinion than any eog poster
 
#85
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

His children must be so proud. Disgraced former ref, goes to prison, now is a tout, father of the year he is
 

2W2P2S

EOG Dedicated
#86
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

His children must be so proud. Disgraced former ref, goes to prison, now is a tout, father of the year he is
Railbird is a socially inept and mentally challenged whack job. There's a reason he identifies with a guy like Donaghy. Here's the testimony from his wife on how's he's such a great dad.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/06/tim-donaghy-gamblings-golden-boy.html

When I asked Donaghy for his ex-wife Kim’s telephone number, he gave it to me and said, “But she won’t talk to you.” When I called her a few weeks later, she did, a lot. “I never knew Tim was gambling on basketball,” Kim said. “I thought just golf and poker. When he was arrested, it was devastating. I knew it was over. The marriage, the lifestyle. It had always been a very difficult marriage, and this was the last straw. He was never a very good father.” I told her Donaghy told me his daughters were “everything to him” and that “without, them I woulda jumped off the Skyway Bridge.”
Kim said, “He does nothing for his daughters and never will. He tried to make me sign a paper for $100-a-week child support, but I wouldn’t. The thing you have to understand is that Tim’s only addiction is money. How to get it and how to keep it.” (“I have no idea what she’s talking about,” Donaghy says.) Kim went on, “Tim has a problem with women. That’s why we got thrown out of the country club.” The one in Sarasota? “No, the one in West Chester, Pennsylvania. Our whole family got thrown out because of him.”
 
#88

2W2P2S

EOG Dedicated
#89
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

That's what you call a disgruntled wife. Has a good relationship with his daughter, that's what counts
You take his word for it because he's proven to be such a credible individual.
It just takes one ounce of common sense to realize a guy that disgraced his family the way he did, would not take a job in the gambling industry conning marks unless he couldn't care less about his family.
 
#90
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

Things have changed a lot since then. My main point being we split the cost a lot. Rarely would one guy go alone with a tout and not split the cost. So sometimes the fees were minimal.
You can effectively reduce the fees by betting more, as the ratio of fee to bet amount is the important thing here, not the gross fee amount, but the problem with the 5Dimes reduced juice lines is that even if you are allowed to bet the max there, it's only $500 and only one person will be able to bet that line before it moves. So if you are splitting the cost with 2 friends, either you also have to split the $500 bet between the three of you, or cut into your ROI by taking a worse line elsewhere.
 
#91
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

You take his word for it because he's proven to be such a credible individual.
It just takes one ounce of common sense to realize a guy that disgraced his family the way he did, would not take a job in the gambling industry conning marks unless he couldn't care less about his family.
He exsposed David Stern con, that is admirable. I would give Tim money way before I would Dinks horse scam
 

2W2P2S

EOG Dedicated
#92
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

He exsposed David Stern con, that is admirable. I would give Tim money way before I would Dinks horse scam
He got caught, he didn't turn himself in. That's not admirable to a sane human being. The sad truth is I believe you believe 90% of what you post.
 

pbovi

EOG Dedicated
#93
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

Tim is a good father and I know that for a fact.

My understanding is and with solid first hand info, is that his wife took up with somebody else while he was in prison, a so called 'friend'. When Tim got out, she wanted to get back together and Tim would have none of it. You know what they say about scorned women.

Yes, he did get caught, but at that point he came clean, even going on 60 minutes and taking full responsibility while admitting to everything. Most dodge those types of situations and those that don't usually tip toe around the truth while assigning blame. True or not true? After all we do live in the blameless society.

Everybody makes mistakes but few get caught. Those that do get caught usually are guilty of letting their guard down and that's when it gets sloppy. As a public figure, there is less margin for error. People pay the price for their misdeeds, which he did in a big way, and are entitled to move on and become productive members of society.

As far as posting on the sites of Feist and Donaghy, I consider them both good friends. I sell next to nothing on either. All it does is keep my name out there.

I have mad respect for Feist as a handicapper as he bets all his plays, and is capping/studying football in April onward when everybody else is in a holding pattern. The man is into his 70's and puts forth a max effort and is solid human being that never speaks ill of anyone.

As for you Gambred, and for the 5th time, I never insinuated I was 59% lifetime. We've been through this. So when LeBron steps on to the court should he stop at 27 points or be satisfied with that number, since that is his lifetime average? When he finishes at 27, does he go home satisfied that he hit his average or should he strive for 35 next game?

You jumped all over me when I was at 57% and it led to a war of words. You basically said I could not achieve it and on the strength of a solid playoff run I hit the 59%.

Basically, I owned you. I know it's tough to swallow, but I owned you.

I hit 60% and 62% for full seasons previously on VI in the last 8 years or so, thus even accounting for a 1 to 1.5 reduction due to grading I was there. There was no grading inefficiencies this year btw as I checked, in fact I lost a win on Portland Dallas that was graded a push but VI refused to change it despite proof.

I compete to overachieve
 

2W2P2S

EOG Dedicated
#94
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

Tim is a good father and I know that for a fact.
Tim is a bad father and I know that for a fact.

See how easy this is?

Yes, he did get caught, but at that point he came clean

Yes, funny how the scumbags come clean AFTER they are caught.

See how easy this is?
 

pbovi

EOG Dedicated
#95
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

Tim is a bad father and I know that for a fact.

See how easy this is?


Yes, funny how the scumbags come clean AFTER they are caught.

See how easy this is?
Not sure I understand your post. Apparently with respect to him being a father, you know something I don't. Share.

For every scumbag that comes clean, there are a dozen that are 'innocent'
 

2W2P2S

EOG Dedicated
#96
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

Not sure I understand your post. Apparently with respect to him being a father, you know something I don't. Share.

For every scumbag that comes clean, there are a dozen that are 'innocent'
You seem to have confused "fact" with "opinion". You hear one side of the story, and now claim "fact". I think the majority of the world would think what he put(s) his family through makes him a pathetic father. And he could have spent his time away from the gambling industry and privately tried to make amends, but he couldn't do that.
Say whatever you want, you have a biased opinion and it's in your best interest to put a partner in a fine light. That's transparent.
I read that article and he is nothing but scum. His own quotes verify this. And if the story is incorrect, I have little doubt this disgrace would have sued for libel. I can add 2+2.
 

pbovi

EOG Dedicated
#97
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

You seem to have confused "fact" with "opinion". You hear one side of the story, and now claim "fact". I think the majority of the world would think what he put(s) his family through makes him a pathetic father. And he could have spent his time away from the gambling industry and privately tried to make amends, but he couldn't do that.
Say whatever you want, you have a biased opinion and it's in your best interest to put a partner in a fine light. That's transparent.
I read that article and he is nothing but scum. His own quotes verify this. And if the story is incorrect, I have little doubt this disgrace would have sued for libel. I can add 2+2.
I had never read this article, but notwithstanding, you surprise me. Apparently you put a lot of faith in the article. I had been privy to the whole publisher thing throughout, and I can tell you that is not at all how it went down. I take it the fact that he is still involved in capping portrays him as a demon. Understood. But, let's face it the writer most definitely had an agenda, and when they do, we all know how that goes. The publisher thing was long and arduous. Don't think he wants any involvement in another case, in fact I know that

My opinions are based on observation and interaction. Stating that he is a 'good father' addresses present day. That's all I can comment on.
 

2W2P2S

EOG Dedicated
#98
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

I had never read this article, but notwithstanding, you surprise me. Apparently you put a lot of faith in the article.
I put my faith in logic and common sense. He's quoted in the article, and his quotes portray him as the scumbag. Did he ever ask for a retraction? Sue for libel?
I see, the 60% win rate was reported correctly, as were the details of the NBA stuff, but the stuff about family and finances were reported incorrectly. UMMMM, OK.

You must be really bad at this Paul, because according to your partner he's raking in $50K a year clients, hiding huge amounts from his wife and the IRS, and working 3 hours a day.

What surprises me is a guy that keeps claiming he's in this business to build a reputation can't see that his association with Donaghy is destroying any reputation you may covet.
 

GameBred

I Trade Therefore I Am
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

As for you Gambred, and for the 5th time, I never insinuated I was 59% lifetime. We've been through this. So when LeBron steps on to the court should he stop at 27 points or be satisfied with that number, since that is his lifetime average? When he finishes at 27, does he go home satisfied that he hit his average or should he strive for 35 next game?

You jumped all over me when I was at 57% and it led to a war of words. You basically said I could not achieve it and on the strength of a solid playoff run I hit the 59%.

Basically, I owned you. I know it's tough to swallow, but I owned you.

I hit 60% and 62% for full seasons previously on VI in the last 8 years or so, thus even accounting for a 1 to 1.5 reduction due to grading I was there. There was no grading inefficiencies this year btw as I checked, in fact I lost a win on Portland Dallas that was graded a push but VI refused to change it despite proof.

I compete to overachieve
The only thing you own is a "delusional mind." I'm still cleaning out my cleats from walking all over you in that thread; Mr. Overachiever.

 
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

Fair criticism. I don't do it unless I know I will be out for the day and will not be able to post, and with that in mind I try not to post anything that has moved when I do. The few I posted this year did not move and did not have an effect on my record. I don't run the site.
This thread is about Cokin's record, and he uses closed casinos. When I checked his record last Sunday, he'd just released a closed casino pick.

Sportsbook.ag is a sponsor. I have told you that.
That they accept advertising from a book with a long history of defrauding winners is evidence of their lack of credibility. "sportsbook.ag is a sponsor" is not an excuse.

I have heard about some delays, but the discussion here is focused on record. Their lines made no difference in my wins/losses this year over 227 picks. Using them is a business decision. I am not saying it's right or wrong but we are discussing grading. That is the subject matter of the thread.
"Some delays" is an absurd understatement. There are tons of complains on SBR's page about them. I have been waiting for my money since 2007 and they've flat out told me I'm not getting paid. A book that will arbitrarily decide not to pay winners is one that shouldn't be used for grading.

The point of an accurately graded record is "what can a customer reasonably be expected to duplicate in his betting?"

Again, this is about Cokin, not you. All of Cokin's supposed profit on VI is baseball and he's a net loser in all other sports combined, so if we're going to be results oriented here, obviously the ML chosen will matter every time.

But in your record, I only had to go back 6 sportsbook.ag plays to find one where it affected the grading. On May 6, you played ATL +3 -105 vs CLE from sportsbook.ag, which lost, so it goes into your record as a -105 loss, but no other book on VI's feed had +3 -105, so a legitimate accounting would have it as a -110 loss. Even if the spread itself happened not to matter in any of those games, I'm sure the associated juice mattered plenty of times.

5 dimes accommodates US action. Pinnacle does not. You were told this repeatedly when they made the decision to drop Pinnacle, which VI previously used, yet you keep bringing it up
The point is whether the line is indicative of a market consensus line.

5 dimes is used by many people on this site who reside in the US. Pinnacle is not. People that buy picks do not subscribe to the standards of pros like yourself. That is a pretty simple phenomenon. As far as reduced juice, it is irrelevant as a means to evaluating the ATS record of the capper.
As I said, the convo is about Cokin who releases a ton of MLB picks, so the W/L record is irrelevant, and so many books shade juice these days that the W/L records should always be normalized for -110. Just looking at the CLE/ATL game since I had that page open, at various points, these books on the VI feed dealt a shaded line -- offshores 5D/SportBet, BetPhoenix, BetGrande, BetOnline, Bookmaker, Bovada, CarbonSports/Sportsbook.ag, Catalina, Heritage, sportsbetting.com, SIA, Greek, and Topbet, and Vegas books Cantor and MGM. And that was just an NBA game with the side lined at 3 and the 3 isn't a key number or anything, so there would obviously be more shaded lines on a football game lined around a key number.

The software goes in and pulls the best possible line/juice. This has been explained to you before. People that buy picks are not likely to have their limits reduced. Is that a logical statement?
But they are likely to have their limits reduced if they follow the betting pattern of the VI grading, betting at 5D when 5D has the best line out of however many books VI currently uses for grading.

As I said, the point is whether a customer can realistically duplicate the tout's claimed record. Being able to consistently bet at 5D when they have the best price in the world is not reasonable.

Simple example, your most recent play was an NBA under 207 when Bookmaker had 205.5, the consensus line was 205.5/206 with some stray 206.5s, and then Golden Nugget had 207. Is it realistic to expect all your customers to be able to get 207? Of course not. Even if they are all hard working bettors and willing to get to the GN when you release, the line could move before they get there (obv they cant all be in every Vegas casino simultaneously), and one limit bet will move that line. And that assumes the GN will honor the 207. There are plenty of Vegas books, who if you try to bet a line of X and they look at the screen and see every book has a worse line, will just reject the bet and air move. That's why using a widely avaialble line is better, as it's more reasonable a bettor can get it.

We had that long thread a few years back where VI gave you a line 1.5 pts better than you got yourself on a game that had been taken OTB at a lot of shops overnight bc their current game had gone to 3 OTs. Had you gotten to the particular Vegas book displaying that line on a line feed, would they really accept a bet on that line looking at the screen and seeing everyone else 1.5 pts worse? It's unlikely.

VI is far more transparent than any other gambling information site out there. The majority of the books they use are solid Vegas based books or offshores that take US action. They post and time stamp all plays while referencing the book. You complained about that before they initiated that policy. They release all plays 20 minutes after the start time for transparency. They display the YTD and lifetime capper record for better or worse.
Cherry picking the very best line will never be a fair grading system. As I said, Sharp Sports Betting had a far more reasonable standard, as they required a line be available at multiple books. They defined that "widely available" standard back in 2001, but few tout sites follow such a standard because most touts don't win. It's a hilarious indictment of the tout business that a book that allows touts to use lines that you literally cannot bet, casinos that are closed for the night, gets labeled "far more transparent than any other site."

Hilariously, VI's James Manos insisted on Fezzik's old board that I was a shill for SSB because I kept citing their grading system as legitimate. SSB shut down 5 or 6 years ago I guess that claim is now moot.

My NBA is hitting at 55.5% over the last 8 years on 1338 picks vs 53% the first 3. Guess I am headed in the right direction. 3 #1's on VI the last 8 years.
Fantastic, but this thread is about Cokin.
 
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

Two sides to every story Groovin. I mentioned to Dave there was a thread ripping him at EOG. He laughed and said "let me guess who". Your reputation isn't exactly sterling now, is it?
 

pbovi

EOG Dedicated
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

The only thing you own is a "delusional mind." I'm still cleaning out my cleats from walking all over you in that thread; Mr. Overachiever.

Numbers prove otherwise as you insisted my ability to hit 59 back then was a pipe dream. Put you to absolute to absolute shame and you damn well know it. You swallowed your own shit on this one
 

pbovi

EOG Dedicated
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

This thread is about Cokin's record, and he uses closed casinos. When I checked his record last Sunday, he'd just released a closed casino pick.



That they accept advertising from a book with a long history of defrauding winners is evidence of their lack of credibility. "sportsbook.ag is a sponsor" is not an excuse.



"Some delays" is an absurd understatement. There are tons of complains on SBR's page about them. I have been waiting for my money since 2007 and they've flat out told me I'm not getting paid. A book that will arbitrarily decide not to pay winners is one that shouldn't be used for grading.

The point of an accurately graded record is "what can a customer reasonably be expected to duplicate in his betting?"

Again, this is about Cokin, not you. All of Cokin's supposed profit on VI is baseball and he's a net loser in all other sports combined, so if we're going to be results oriented here, obviously the ML chosen will matter every time.

But in your record, I only had to go back 6 sportsbook.ag plays to find one where it affected the grading. On May 6, you played ATL +3 -105 vs CLE from sportsbook.ag, which lost, so it goes into your record as a -105 loss, but no other book on VI's feed had +3 -105, so a legitimate accounting would have it as a -110 loss. Even if the spread itself happened not to matter in any of those games, I'm sure the associated juice mattered plenty of times.

The point is whether the line is indicative of a market consensus line.



As I said, the convo is about Cokin who releases a ton of MLB picks, so the W/L record is irrelevant, and so many books shade juice these days that the W/L records should always be normalized for -110. Just looking at the CLE/ATL game since I had that page open, at various points, these books on the VI feed dealt a shaded line -- offshores 5D/SportBet, BetPhoenix, BetGrande, BetOnline, Bookmaker, Bovada, CarbonSports/Sportsbook.ag, Catalina, Heritage, sportsbetting.com, SIA, Greek, and Topbet, and Vegas books Cantor and MGM. And that was just an NBA game with the side lined at 3 and the 3 isn't a key number or anything, so there would obviously be more shaded lines on a football game lined around a key number.



But they are likely to have their limits reduced if they follow the betting pattern of the VI grading, betting at 5D when 5D has the best line out of however many books VI currently uses for grading.

As I said, the point is whether a customer can realistically duplicate the tout's claimed record. Being able to consistently bet at 5D when they have the best price in the world is not reasonable.

Simple example, your most recent play was an NBA under 207 when Bookmaker had 205.5, the consensus line was 205.5/206 with some stray 206.5s, and then Golden Nugget had 207. Is it realistic to expect all your customers to be able to get 207? Of course not. Even if they are all hard working bettors and willing to get to the GN when you release, the line could move before they get there (obv they cant all be in every Vegas casino simultaneously), and one limit bet will move that line. And that assumes the GN will honor the 207. There are plenty of Vegas books, who if you try to bet a line of X and they look at the screen and see every book has a worse line, will just reject the bet and air move. That's why using a widely avaialble line is better, as it's more reasonable a bettor can get it.

We had that long thread a few years back where VI gave you a line 1.5 pts better than you got yourself on a game that had been taken OTB at a lot of shops overnight bc their current game had gone to 3 OTs. Had you gotten to the particular Vegas book displaying that line on a line feed, would they really accept a bet on that line looking at the screen and seeing everyone else 1.5 pts worse? It's unlikely.



Cherry picking the very best line will never be a fair grading system. As I said, Sharp Sports Betting had a far more reasonable standard, as they required a line be available at multiple books. They defined that "widely available" standard back in 2001, but few tout sites follow such a standard because most touts don't win. It's a hilarious indictment of the tout business that a book that allows touts to use lines that you literally cannot bet, casinos that are closed for the night, gets labeled "far more transparent than any other site."

Hilariously, VI's James Manos insisted on Fezzik's old board that I was a shill for SSB because I kept citing their grading system as legitimate. SSB shut down 5 or 6 years ago I guess that claim is now moot.



Fantastic, but this thread is about Cokin.
In reference to the last line which I saw as I gleaned over, you made a comment about my win/loss record, net profits. As such my response.

I don't have time to read your dissertation now, but I'll eventually get around to it
 
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

In reference to the last line which I saw as I gleaned over, you made a comment about my win/loss record, net profits. As such my response.
The quoted record was given in terms of units and normalized for -110. The % doesnt really matter, the ROI does, but since most people think in terms of 54%, 55% etc, it's easiest to just normalize it to the equivalent W/L at -110.
 
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

Two sides to every story Groovin. I mentioned to Dave there was a thread ripping him at EOG. He laughed and said "let me guess who". Your reputation isn't exactly sterling now, is it?
This is a standard ad hominem attack. Neither you nor Dave have refuted a single thing I said. The records are right there in black and white. Dave and I had a perfectly civil conversation over Twitter DM that he calls "rude," because I didn't fall for his false claim that he picks 55%, and he promptly unfollowed and blocked me. He is free to refute anything I say, but of course he can't, because he is a losing tout.

People on Twitter have reported asking him why he advertises on Pregame +13u on the season for MLB when he's -24u on VI, and he promptly blocks them, because he can't refute that.

Here's what a piece of human excrement the person you call a "friend" is. Philly Godfather is fond of making jokes about the child of mine that died a long time ago, calling me "a deadbeat dad," tweeting pictures of dead babies at me, and all sorts of other disgusting stuff. Dave's excuse for blocking me on Twitter was "my personal problem with Pregame is none of his business" and "the one thing I've learned in 34 years of doing this is to mind my own business." When Philly Godfather tweeted at him nonsense about "Groovin is a deadbeat Dad," Dave replied to yuck it up with him and even followed that account on Twitter, saying "Wow, that rates a follow" in response to one of PGF's "deadbeat dad jokes." So the way his picks are graded is "none of his business," but he thinks it's funny to say stuff like that to someone who exposes fraud touts.
 
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

>>Simple example, your most recent play was an NBA under 207 when Bookmaker had 205.5, the consensus line was 205.5/206 with some stray 206.5s, and then Golden Nugget had 207. Is it realistic to expect all your customers to be able to get 207? Of course not. Even if they are all hard working bettors and willing to get to the GN when you release, the line could move before they get there (obv they cant all be in every Vegas casino simultaneously), and one limit bet will move that line. And that assumes the GN will honor the 207. There are plenty of Vegas books, who if you try to bet a line of X and they look at the screen and see every book has a worse line, will just reject the bet and air move. That's why using a widely avaialble line is better, as it's more reasonable a bettor can get it.<<

This caught my eye and would like to point out something to look for. Golden Nugget often takes
a position late on games and offers clearly the best line on the board. Those lines that are off 1.5
points, as in this example, they will let you bet. It's really a good book for getting numbers close to
tip-off. They do the same for college football. NBA and college football are the two best for this.
Was finding NBA totals off 1.5-2 points during the playoffs there. Nugget has some good lines and I hope
it takes a little longer before they get an app. My guess is this is their last football season without one.

A warning about other books with great screen lines though. Sometimes those great lines are phantom
lines. Lines that were the last offered number before the game went off the board at that spot for
some reason. CAE and Coast seem to have a lot of that. Coast you can just check the app but with CAE
you often waste a trip if you try and go after that outlier.
 
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

A warning about other books with great screen lines though. Sometimes those great lines are phantom lines. Lines that were the last offered number before the game went off the board at that spot for some reason. CAE and Coast seem to have a lot of that. Coast you can just check the app but with CAE
you often waste a trip if you try and go after that outlier.
This seems standard on most every free line feed and is also true for offshore books. The feeds will just list the last line before the game went OTB. There are a lot of examples on Pregame of the touts doing that, for example the Stephen Nover example cited in the Deadspin article where he claimed to bet an MLB game that was actually OTB everywhere because of a change in scheduled pitchers. He and Johnny Detroit claimed "money poured in on the team that morning" but it was actually just the readjusted line being put on the board with the new scheduled pitchers.
 
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout



I have known Dave for 25 years. I’ve had a few dinners with him at his usual Vegas hang out place and as often as he goes there he walks around like he owns the place (The people working there let him do it and he pays for all he does and leaves great tips). You will be hard pressed to find someone who analyzes things as much as he does. He loooooooves baseball more than any other sport. As for his record: As long as I have known him he has been one of the most honest cappers out there. Does he win all of the time – NO! Does he say he does - NO! I can’t comment on his record because I don’t know about it, one way or another. All this is about him is surprising to read. But since I don’t know what is really the truth here and what is not I can’t do anything but post my thoughts and leave it at that.
No offense Winky but this is far from informative. You have no idea what his record is or anything else other than Dave tips well. I doubt a lot of waitresses post here.

Reads like a suck-up to someone in town with a "name" that maybe you dine with occasionally.

BTW the only reason I mention this is because my first exposure to you (1999/2000ish) was you were known as the guy that exposed touts.

Not all your methods were intricate levels of deception but your report back to the forums was informative, detailed, and probably saved a lot of greenhorns back in the day.

Now? Not so much.

Just surprised you went from someone trying to save idiots from paying for picks to giving them reach-arounds on the forums.

Carry on.
 
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

Here is a simple example of why Cokin does not win, and also how he reports his record fraudulently. In a Pregame thread "Pro's Plan to Win," Cokin said:

Dave Cokin said:
I'm not as value focused as I was earlier in the season. In terms of closing line value, I absolutely killed it for the most part but all that really did was save me money on the losers. That's all well and good, but the idea is to pick winners. One thing I can reveal is that it definitely appears that we've got a larger gap than usual between the haves and have nots this season, and that has made -1 wagering a better option than I have considered it to be in the past. Bottom line is that it's going better lately and I am confident this will continue throughout the second half of the campaign.
Nobody who actually wins at MLB would say the above about how "I am focusing less on value and more on picking winners." That is not how it works. And looking at his record, to narrow down a winning subset of his "going better lately," you literally had to limit it to the last 10 days before he made that post. Any other sample, he's an overall loss. If that doesn't perfectly sum up tout advertising, I don't know what does.

And on the topic of "MLB -1 bets," that's what Dave calls him splitting his bet between the ML and the -1.5. The last one he took prior to that post, the total was 8.5, and he split his bet between ML -200 and -1.5 -110. That is an absolutely terrible runline conversion (the -200 is significantly better). In my experience, one of the easiest ways to identify a poor MLB bettor is one who consistently plays poor -1.5 lines, ostensibly because "they don't like laying chalk" or something.
 
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

Not sure I understand your post. Apparently with respect to him being a father, you know something I don't. Share.

For every scumbag that comes clean, there are a dozen that are 'innocent'

Was he paid to be on 60 Minutes?

That might have something to do with him "coming clean" if his story garnered a lot of $$$$.

His ex did say he was addicted to money.

I got no beef with the guy, but painting him in a positive light for his honesty while being healthily endorsed is different from cons rotting in jail who maintain their innocence with no incentive to do otherwise.
 

pbovi

EOG Dedicated
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

In reference to the last line which I saw as I gleaned over, you made a comment about my win/loss record, net profits. As such my response.

I don't have time to read your dissertation now, but I'll eventually get around to it
Groovin, these forums are your life and just looking at this stuff makes me think of long homework assignments back in 8th grade. I don't have time for this

Sportsbook.ag is a sponsor as I repeatedly stated. This was about grading as it relates to VI. Their lines vary slightly from time to time. I challenge you to examine all picks and tell me if any inflated or deflated lines made a difference in my record. They did not.

On March 23rd, I personally played Portland -5.5, in two spots, and had it graded at 6.

In about 20% of the cases I get a worse line than what I post and about 10% of the time I get better as many locals take a position and/or always shade high/favorite. I have bought down lines at 4.5 -01 that 5 dimes shows at -4 -05. I often make reference to that in a writeup. It is what it is. The software pulls the best number.

What it boils down to is that you will never ever be satisfied as you raise the bar to perfection and way above what is reasonable for the average bettor or anybody even moderately above. You micromanage everything.

A few years ago I made the statement that you would 'find a pimple on J Lo's ass' if she were buck naked in front of you. I stand by that.

I don't fault you for being an obsessive compulsive as that's how your wired.

You always have the great alternative, this time Sharp Sports Betting. A few years ago it was Scott Kellen. How did that work out?

I don't look at their baseball grading. Don't care.

Go to a movie. Take a walk in the park. Take the Groovin challenge which means for one full day no log ins to any forums. You're on the honor system. If you can do it, I'll buy you lunch and wear an I Luv Groovin T shirt
 
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

Gee - Breaking News: Some touts inflate their records! Bears shit in the woods. HRC is a lying scum, should be in prison! Timeshare sales guy's (formerly me) stretch the truth a bit, or a lot. Next? Groovin, take my friends pbovi's advice: calm the fuck down, Dude!
 

pbovi

EOG Dedicated
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

I put my faith in logic and common sense. He's quoted in the article, and his quotes portray him as the scumbag. Did he ever ask for a retraction? Sue for libel?
I see, the 60% win rate was reported correctly, as were the details of the NBA stuff, but the stuff about family and finances were reported incorrectly. UMMMM, OK.

You must be really bad at this Paul, because according to your partner he's raking in $50K a year clients, hiding huge amounts from his wife and the IRS, and working 3 hours a day.

What surprises me is a guy that keeps claiming he's in this business to build a reputation can't see that his association with Donaghy is destroying any reputation you may covet.
Rail is right. She is an angry scorned woman. Retraction? He went through a terrible ordeal with the publisher who tried to stiff him completely, complaining she was broke. She finally ponied up a small sum. At that point the judge was pressing for a settlement, thus he took it. Ever have to deal with opening an envelope with a lawyers' hours when you're on the balls of your ass btw ? Not a pleasant situation. At this point sure he just wants to move forward and fairly certain he is not exuberant about sharing the spoils of his hard work with a woman that took up with an acquaintance while he was in jail.

As far as venturing into capping, people tend to do whatever they can when their desperate and broke, especially with 4 kids, which he was coming out of prison. Not saying it's right or wrong just explaining the decision which some may label immoral. Purely subjective.

You are drawing from second hand information put out by people that clearly have an agenda. Guess we're even because in my book, that makes you not very good at this.
 

GameBred

I Trade Therefore I Am
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

Numbers prove otherwise as you insisted my ability to hit 59 back then was a pipe dream. Put you to absolute to absolute shame and you damn well know it. You swallowed your own shit on this one
You are completely insane and a proven liar.

I don't have to swallow anything because anyone who knows my posting knows I laugh at guys who predict shit, they really do make me laugh, so I predicted nothing in regards to your performance.

Secondly, I never said you can't have outlier seasons.

There is not debate here besides your silly statement of, "Anything under 59% can be improved upon." Instead of walking it back and saying you were a bit overzealous, you just want to dig in your heels.
 

pbovi

EOG Dedicated
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

You are completely insane and a proven liar.

I don't have to swallow anything because anyone who knows my posting knows I laugh at guys who predict shit, they really do make me laugh, so I predicted nothing in regards to your performance.

Secondly, I never said you can't have outlier seasons.

There is not debate here besides your silly statement of, "Anything under 59% can be improved upon." Instead of walking it back and saying you were a bit overzealous, you just want to dig in your heels.
Delirium has set upon you. I hit the 59% this year in spite of your dire prediction.

Maybe, you'll get the next one, but as for this one, how did it taste?
 

GameBred

I Trade Therefore I Am
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

Delirium has set upon you. I hit the 59% this year in spite of your dire prediction.

Maybe, you'll get the next one, but as for this one, how did it taste?
Are you even reading what I am writing? I don't predict anything.

You are a silly tipster to me who makes insane statements and would go hungry if you had to do this for your daily bread.

You are not a 59% lifetime capper. That isn't a prediction, that is a statement of fact, that you verified. Why a supposed 55% lifetime capper (which I don't believe btw) makes the statement that anything under 59% can be improved upon is beyond me. You said it out of ignorance and you continually want to double down on it. Just stop, Paul.
 

pbovi

EOG Dedicated
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

Are you even reading what I am writing? I don't predict anything.

You are a silly tipster to me who makes insane statements and would go hungry if you had to do this for your daily bread.

You are not a 59% lifetime capper. That isn't a prediction, that is a statement of fact, that you verified. Why a supposed 55% lifetime capper (which I don't believe btw) makes the statement that anything under 59% can be improved upon is beyond me. You said it out of ignorance and you continually want to double down on it. Just stop, Paul.
Getting through to an 8 year old would be no problem on this one. Owned!
 

GameBred

I Trade Therefore I Am
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

Getting through to an 8 year old would be no problem on this one. Owned!
Well chosen number because 8-points is the difference in the edge between a 55% capper and a 59% capper betting into -110 price points.

Quit while you are ahead, Bozo.
 

2W2P2S

EOG Dedicated
Re: Dave Cokin, portrait of a fraud tout

Rail is right. She is an angry scorned woman. Retraction? He went through a terrible ordeal with the publisher who tried to stiff him completely, complaining she was broke. She finally ponied up a small sum. At that point the judge was pressing for a settlement, thus he took it. Ever have to deal with opening an envelope with a lawyers' hours when you're on the balls of your ass btw ? Not a pleasant situation. At this point sure he just wants to move forward and fairly certain he is not exuberant about sharing the spoils of his hard work with a woman that took up with an acquaintance while he was in jail.

As far as venturing into capping, people tend to do whatever they can when their desperate and broke, especially with 4 kids, which he was coming out of prison. Not saying it's right or wrong just explaining the decision which some may label immoral. Purely subjective.

You are drawing from second hand information put out by people that clearly have an agenda. Guess we're even because in my book, that makes you not very good at this.
Here again is the point you don't get- we can take the word of his daughter's mom about what kind of father he is, or we can take the word of his pick selling tout partner.

Paul, distance yourself for a second and think who the world is more likely to find believable.

See you at Del Mar.
 
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